Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ck2001wendt 11-10-06, 11:47 AM	The Prestige Bard is a 15 level variant prestige class presented in UA. Basic Build: Beguiler 8/Prestige Bard 12 (Feat Req: Skill Knowledge [UA, Any one skill permanently a class skill; choose Perform]) Basics: -13 BAB -17 CL (20 with PC), 8th level Spells -12/day Bardic Music, Inspire Courage +3, Inspire Heroics (=15th level Bard) -Bardic Knowledge Nice Synergy: 1. Int Synergy: Prestige Bard has 6+Int skill points and a great list, Beguiler is Int-based casting. 2. CL Boost: A 1-level dip into Prestige Bard provides +2 CL to all Illusion, Divination and Enchantment spells...basically the entire Beguiler list, while granting a -2 penalty to Evocation and Necromancy spells. 3. Spells Known Boost: Using the Unique Spells rule on pg. 71 of UA, all Bard only spells are automatically added to the Beguiler's spell list. Better than a straight Beguiler, with its small number of restrictive Advanced Learnings. Better than a Bard, with its limited spells known, limited spells per day and a slow progression. Examples: -Dirge (6th): All enemies save vs. Str, Dex damage each round. -Hymn of Praise (3rd): Good divine spellcasters are +2 CL, +4 turn undead. -Inspirational Boost (1st): Swift Action +1 to Bardic Music bonuses. -Improvisation (1st): 2 "luck" points/level for skill, attack, ability checks. -Nixie's Grace (6th): +6 Enhancement to Dex, +2 to Wis, +8 to Cha, 10 min/level. -Tactical Precision (2nd): Allies gain +2 Insight to attacks on flanked creatures, +1d6 damage. Of course, because of the way Bard spellcasting is set up, the Beguiler-Bard gets these spells far sooner, and can use them far more often. Advanced Synergy: -Shadowcrafter Mage, etc. -Bardic Feats to further enhance Enchantment or Illusion spells.
Sang-Drax 11-11-06, 12:17 PM	Good point. It also fits perfectly conceptwise.
Phoenix00 11-11-06, 01:38 PM	Wouldn't Beguiler 5/Prestige Bard 1/Beguiler +1/Virtuso 10/Beguiler +3 also work? You only lose 2 Caster Levels withthis build, thus 9th level spells 11 Bardic Music Attempts, and some really nice Virtuso abilities.
ck2001wendt 11-11-06, 02:55 PM	Wouldn't Beguiler 5/Prestige Bard 1/Beguiler +1/Virtuso 10/Beguiler +3 also work? You only lose 2 Caster Levels withthis build, thus 9th level spells 11 Bardic Music Attempts, and some really nice Virtuso abilities. You have to go Beguiler 6 (+3 BAB) to enter Prestige Bard. Beguiler 8/Prestige Bard 2/Virtuoso 10 Inspire Courage +3, 9th level spells, 12/day Bardic Music.
jstorrie 11-11-06, 03:02 PM	Now, what about some sort of Beguiler / Prestige Bard / Sublime Chord / Ultimate Magus monstrosity? Is it doable?
Telemon_Ajax 11-11-06, 03:19 PM	Now, what about some sort of Beguiler / Prestige Bard / Sublime Chord / Ultimate Magus monstrosity? Is it doable? You need to have some kind of prepared caster level, don't you?
kilroo 11-11-06, 03:34 PM	Yeah, plus if you pull in Sublime Chord you're losing at least part of your Int synergy. Unfortunately I don't think there is an INT based accelerated casting class yet. If there were, I would have used it by now.
Repeekluos 11-11-06, 03:36 PM	Yeah, plus if you pull in Sublime Chord you're losing at least part of your Int synergy. Unfortunately I don't think there is an INT based accelerated casting class yet. If there were, I would have used it by now. What do you mean by accelerated?
ck2001wendt 11-11-06, 03:53 PM	What do you mean by accelerated? A casting progression that gives you access to higher level spells faster than normal. See: Sublime Chord, Ur Priest, Nar Demonbinder.
Phoenix00 11-11-06, 03:57 PM	You have to go Beguiler 6 (+3 BAB) to enter Prestige Bard. Beguiler 8/Prestige Bard 2/Virtuoso 10 Inspire Courage +3, 9th level spells, 12/day Bardic Music. Don't do that do Beguiler 6/Prestige Bard 1/Virtuso 10/Beguiler +1/X 2 You want to take Beguiler 7 after Virtuso so you can delay your advanced learning. Would you prefer learning a 3rd level illusion or enchantment spell or would you prefer learning a 8th level illusion or enchantment spell. I know what I would want to do :P Additionally Prestige Bard 2 gives you nothing besides one extra use of bardic music, and giving you inspire +3 a level early during your virtuso levels. There are probally better prestige classes to take then (such as mindbender or something.) If you can't think of any then take Prestige Bard 2. I am just pointing out that Prestige Bard 2 isn't a good endpoint to bail out of a class. ------ A Beguiler 6/Prestige Bard 1/Virtuso 3/Shadowcraft Mage 3/Virtuso +7 would be able to use his 11 uses of Bardic Music to pay for his "heightened costs" for his shadowcraft illusions, if you took the Metamagic Song feat from races of the stone. Then take the Extra Music feat (Eberron or Complete Adventurer) to get more bardic musics per day. Make sure to take the Residual Magic feat from Complete Mage. It allows you to double the number of high level shadowcraft illusion you can cast per day ;)
Repeekluos 11-11-06, 04:25 PM	A casting progression that gives you access to higher level spells faster than normal. See: Sublime Chord, Ur Priest, Nar Demonbinder. Ahah.
RadicalTaoist 11-11-06, 04:45 PM	Say, while we're in the PHBII, what does a Duskblade/Prestige Bard look like?
Phoenix00 11-11-06, 05:07 PM	Say, while we're in the PHBII, what does a Duskblade/Prestige Bard look like? One level of bard will grant you a selection of buffing spells allowing you to use your high amount of spell slots a little more usefully. If you take the level of Prestige Bard after 13 you really lose nothing. Luckly for qualification your spell list has exactly the right amount of 1st level divination, (true strike), 1 illusion (color spray), and enchantment (rouse) that you need to qualify for Prestige Bard. Duskblade 13/Prestige Bard 1/Abjurant Champion 5/X 1. Works great. You will want to take practiced spellcaster though since your evocation and necromancy spells are 2 caster level less, and you lose 1 caster level with Prestige Bard.
Book 11-11-06, 08:15 PM	Looks like I beat you to the punch about 5 months ago, Ck2001. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9279843&postcount=109 Yep, I wrote that post to the Beguiler Handbook back in late May. ******* Only problem is, the "Additional Bard Spell List" mechanic does not work. I repeat, YOU CANNOT ADD BARD SPELLS TO THE BEGUILER SPELL LIST WITH THIS CLASS COMBO. I found that out the hard way when I posted that exact same question to CustServ awhile back. Even though it looks like you can add the Bard Spell List to your primary spell list, there is no game mechanic listed in the Prestige Bard that executes that action. CustServ even stated that the language was a bit confusing, but that the intent to meld spell lists was never intended by the designers.
JaronK 11-11-06, 08:22 PM	Um, did they even read page 71? It's pretty straightforward. You do indeed add the spells to the list. JaronK
Phoenix00 11-11-06, 08:47 PM	I found that out the hard way when I posted that exact same question to CustServ awhile back. Even though it looks like you can add the Bard Spell List to your primary spell list, there is no game mechanic listed in the Prestige Bard that executes that action. CustServ even stated that the language was a bit confusing, but that the intent to meld spell lists was never intended by the designers. This is a type of customer service ruling we ignore for it contradicts the text, on page 71 it says you get to add all the unique bard spells from Player's Handbook to your spell list. Unique Spells from other sources are up to the DM. The last sentence on page 71 says the DM may require these spells to be reserached. The text doesn't explain if these spells the DM can force to be researched are the Bard/Paladin/Ranger spells from the Player Handbook or other sources. ------------------------ I understand what the Customer Service was trying to do, they were trying to stop "unintended consequences" from the book designers who didn't read all the other products and thus didn't write the best rules, resulting in nasty combos. UA was released in Feb 2004, at the time the only full spellcasting class that had a list they could cast off completely was the Warmage (Minature Handbook Oct 2003). It was later that other classes such as Dread Necro (Heroes of Horror Oct 2005), Beguiler (PHB II May 2006), and Duskblade (PHB II May 2006) came out. Because the Warmage was the only class that didn't have a limit on spells accessiable per day (either by limited spells known, or they have to prepare spells) and different people worked on both products that they didn't wrote a limit saying you can't do X with Y type of classes. Customer Service is wrong and against the RAW. Now if the RAW results in inballanced play, that is what DM rule 0/houseruling is for. If you don't like the RAW you don't pretend the RAW is something else, when clearly it isn't, you just accept the RAW is unballanced and you do your best to fix the balance. Remember Prestige Bard is part of a variant system, of course the DM is going to have to tweak it.
Book 11-11-06, 09:13 PM	CustServ's argument crux was the last sentence of the Prestige Bard pre-amble on page 69. I'm without books, so perhaps someone can quote it(?). It's the line before the Hit Die entry. Something about "a greater range of spells available".
Phoenix00 11-11-06, 09:22 PM	CustServ's argument crux was the last sentence of the Prestige Bard pre-amble on page 69. I'm without books, so perhaps someone can quote it(?). It's the line before the Hit Die entry. Something about "a greater range of spells available". You are refering to this text? Compared to the standard character class, the prestige bard gains her bardic music abilities later in her career, but has a greater range of spells avaliable. Hit Dice: d6 That is the line on page 69 before Hit Dice. It doesn't support the Customer Service Position, if anything it supports the non customer support position.
Book 11-11-06, 10:06 PM	You are refering to this text? That is the line on page 69 before Hit Dice. It doesn't support the Customer Service Position, if anything it supports the non customer support position. Keep in mind, my original (and still to this day) thought was exactly what you are thinking. Since I don't have a copy of the CustServ response, I believe their reasoning had to do with the Prestige Bard PrC'ed character ... in comparison to a traditional non-PrC'ed Bard ... had a greater range of spells available. Which as you can see, CustServ's assertion does not match the text. :mad: ---- Tell you what, if someone wants to submit a ticket asking them to further explain, that would be great for clarifications sake. You may want to mention that I inquired with them a few months back on this same issue.