Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LogicNinja 08-08-06, 04:13 PM	So I've made a couple of beguilers (one ECL 4, one ECL 7) for a couple of games lately. The first one is more of a skillmonkey; the second has the good ol' one-level dip into Mindbender for telepathy. Focusing on the second one--human, feats are Combat Expertise (1), Improved Feint (H) (for the swift-action feint, to feint, Cloaked Cast, and move away), Spell Focus: Enchantment (3), and Sculpt Spell (6). This character has 18 INT base, and I'd like to keep Concentration, Forgery, Disguise, Bluff, Sense Motive, and Diplomacy high, and hopefully both. Now, there are a number of good PrCs (Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil) that don't really fit, have tough requirements, and don't give very good skills. I'm hard-pressed to find one that would give, say, 4+INT skill points, without losing levels to rogue for Arcane Trickster (not great for a Beguiler) or Daggerspell Mage (meh, doesn't fit at all). Any ideas? Fatespinner seems nice but would require me to transfer skill points from something (i.e. Spellcraft) into Knowledge: Arcane and take some Profession: Gambler. If taking Fatespinner is a good idea, should I wait until I have Cloaked Casting (+2 DC) and another Advanced Learning from the Beguiler, or take it right away? Any other useful prestige classes I missed? And while you're at it, any must-have feats I missed? Mindsight in Lords of Madness seems like a big one, but is it worth abandoning Improved Feint or Spell Focus or Sculpt Spell (Sculpted Color Spray and Glitterdust for the win)? Not having access to LoM would mean that I need to find the feat's text somewhere. Books the DM has are "PHB, DMG, DMG2, MM1-3, Complete Arc, Adv, War, and Div, and Draconomicon" and as of lately the PHB II. Anything from outside those would need to be PMed to him and looked over. I've got a larger collection, including the Races Of books and a bunch of Eberron stuff. Thanks in advance. :)
Tyco3110 08-08-06, 04:56 PM	Well ones which i know could be good Rainbow Savant (CDiv) - Espcially when it grants all cleric spells to the Beguiller spell list and the text in the class which says its a 10/10 arcane advancement class
Nexis 08-08-06, 05:43 PM	Im a big fan of the beguiler myself and I'm also kinda dissapointed that they don't seem to fit with many priestege classes. On the plus side they are a pretty good class to take to 20 ( no SR at 20 helps but isnt game breaking )
GaffeR 08-08-06, 06:09 PM	As far as the Beguiler goes, my favorite build for them is.. Beguiler 5/Mindbender 1/Beguiler 6-7/Shadowcraft Mage 5/X 7 Gotta be a gnome, but this can be damn potent and gives a lot of flexibility to the beguiler. The Mindbender dip is for mindsight and to delay their advanced learning until 8th level, so they can snag a 4th level shadow spell. ScM is in Races of Stone. Heighten spell is a must for this build. Check out the Beguiler handbook (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=635691)
*R* 08-08-06, 06:21 PM	I'm hard-pressed to find one that would give, say, 4+INT skill points, without losing levels to rogue for Arcane Trickster (not great for a Beguiler) or Daggerspell Mage (meh, doesn't fit at all).You can now get into Arcane Trickster without losing caster levels, by taking a feat to get Assassin's Stance (+2d6 sneak attack stance, Tome of Battle). The earliest you can take it as a straight Beguiler is ECL 10 (Initiator level 5), which means the 12th level feat slot. For the cost of 1 CL, you can take it at 10 (Beguiler 9/one level dip into any class that grants a Fighter bonus feat) or 9 (Beguiler 8/one level dip into one of the three Martial Adept base classes).
hogarth 08-08-06, 06:32 PM	Mage of the Arcane Order requires two feats (Arcane Preparation, Cooperative Spell), but you get one back later. A couple of levels might add some versatility to your spell list. I agree with the Shadowcraft Mage suggestion. Too bad you're not a gnome...
Seeker of Truth 08-08-06, 07:48 PM	Loredelver fits very well with beguiler, but you need to be an illumian.
Caelic 08-08-06, 07:58 PM	Rainbow Savant (CDiv) - Espcially when it grants all cleric spells to the Beguiller spell list and the text in the class which says its a 10/10 arcane advancement class Siiiigh. The "text" just keeps getting better every time I hear it. Next, it'll be "Rainbow Servant's text says that not only is it a 10/10 arcane advancement class, it also has 20 skill points per level and a +2 per level BAB!"
LogicNinja 08-08-06, 08:21 PM	Well, I'm not a gnome or an illumian. I've decided that Fatespinner 4 is the way to go eventually--now, my issue is this: take it "now" (i.e. right after I snag Advanced Learning from Beguiler 7) or go Beguiler for a few levels for class features (+2 to beat SR, Still Spell, another Advanced Learning)? Straight Beguiler, with its skill points, is lookin' pretty good for what won't be that combat-focused a game, I think.
Caelic 08-08-06, 09:24 PM	I guess the question would be quality of opposition: are you encountering a large number of opponents who easily make the save DCs against your spells? If so, Fatespinner would probably be better sooner rather than later. If not, you can probably delay for a few levels.
LogicNinja 08-08-06, 11:38 PM	Well, the game's still getting started, so we haven't encountered any of'em so far. I've actually, settled on straight Beguiler (besides the Mindbender dip) so as not to waste skill points on Fatespinner prereqs and to get more of'em in the future--it won't be that combat-oriented a game, and my DCs should be pretty good just from, INT, spell focus, and Cloaked Casting. Mindsight is also not allowed, and other than GSF(Enchant)/SF & GSF(Illusion), I'm out of feat ideas--although the spell focuses should keep me busy longer than the game will last, without bonus feats; I just wonder if there's anything better. Also, any suggestions for a spell to snag with Advanced Learning next level?