Post/Author/DateTime	Post
thegraveyard 01-02-06, 04:19 PM	The Build: Human Mnk 2/Drd 2/Clr 2/Rgr 2/Brd 2/Drs 2/IotDM 2/TDD 2/CAn 2/TtM 2 Abbreviations: Brd – Bard CAn – Cloud Anchorite Clr – Cleric Drd – Druid Drs – Dragonstalker IotDM – Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries Mnk – Monk Rgr – Ranger TDD – The Dragon Disciple TM – Tattooed Monk Base Saves: Fort – 25 Ref – 21 Will – 25 Base Attack Bonus: +12/+7/+2 Feats: 1b- Improved Unarmed Strike 1b- Improved Grapple 1b- Alertness 1- Endurance 3- Blind-fight 6- Power Attack 7b- Track 8b- Two-weapon Fighting 9- Mountaineer 12- ??? 15- ??? 18- ??? Books Used: Players Handbook 3.5 Dungeon Master’s Guide 3.5 Draconomicon Frostburn Complete Warrior Class Requirements: Race: Any nondragon (cannot already be a half-dragon). Feats: Endurance, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Mountaineer, Blind-fight, Track, Alertness, Power Attack Skills: Knowledge (religion) 9 ranks, Climb 9 ranks, Jump 9 ranks, Survival 4 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Gather Information 4 ranks, Hide 6 ranks, Move Silently 6 ranks, Search 6 ranks, Concentration 6 ranks, Tumble 4 ranks Alignment: Any lawful, any Neutral, Any nonlawful, any nonchaotic Base Attack Bonus: +5 Base Fort Save: +5 Base Ref Save: Base Will Save: Language: Draconic Spellcasting: ability to cast arcane spells without preparation Special: the prospective student must live for a week on his/her own in a wilderness region, during which time s/he can travel no lower than 12000 feet in altitude; the player chooses a dragon variety when taking the first level in this prestige class, subject to the DM’s approval
thegraveyard 01-02-06, 04:20 PM	The Challenge: 1 – Get higher base saves than what this build has 2 – Use the same amount of classes or less than what this build uses 3 – Get a higher base attack bonus than this build The Rules: 1 – All official Wizards of the Coast books are legal, except that Dragon Magazine, online material, nonWotC books cannot be used. 2 – Your build will be allocated a total of 190,000 XP, if your build has XP penalties then your build will be allocated 133,000 XP; in either case, the character will not be given any more XP; the XP penalty sets in when any class, other than a favored one, is more than 2 levels difference between any class. 3 – Double check your build to make sure it is legal, and use the same format as I have when posting your build. 4 – Your character will be given 0 gold and cannot acquire more. 5 – Class requirements need only to be met in order to gain entry to the class, they do not need to be kept since this is just about the base saves and bab. 6 – If, and I emphasize IF, you absolutely need to, I suppose you can use gestalt characters to beat him at his own game, but then I will be forced to point out that gestalt characters might just get a better bab and worse base saves. 7 – If you invoke any build, in particularly pun-pun to beat this build, I would point out that pun-pun can’t hold a candle to this character for base saves, although it might still be able to get a better bab if the template divine minion doesn’t have a LA. 8 – As opposed to this, no templates will be allowed, I say this because it will ruin your chances of beating this humble challenge. 9 – Have fun.
Caelic 01-02-06, 05:59 PM	Shouldn't be too terribly difficult. How about: Warforged Monk 2/Cleric 2/Ranger 3/Thrall of Juiblex 2/Sacred Fist 2/Soul Eater 2/Tattooed Monk 2/Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries 2/Tattooed Monk 2/Divine Crusader 1/Dragonstalker 2 Thrall to Demon, Willing Deformity, Combat Casting, Combat Reflexes, Stunning Fist, Alertness, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (slam,) Endurance, Improved Grapple 1. Monk 1: Thrall to Demon, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist 2. Monk 2: Combat Reflexes 3. Cleric 1: Willing Deformity, Weapon Focus (UAS) (War domain) 4. Cleric 2 5. Ranger 1: Track, Combat Style (TWF) 6. Ranger 2: Alertness 7. Ranger 3: Endurance 8. Thrall of Juiblex 1 9. Thrall of Juiblex 2: Combat Casting 10. Sacred Fist 1 11. Sacred Fist 2 12. Soul Eater 1: Power Attack 13. Soul Eater 2 14. Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries 1 15. Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries 2: Improved Grapple 16. Tattooed Monk 1 17. Tattooed Monk 2 18. Divine Crusader 1: Blind-Fight 19. Dragonstalker 1 20. Dragonstalker 2 Final Saves: +26 +24 +24 BAB: +15 I could boost these significantly, but I tried not to mix campaign settings (this is straight Eberron,) and not to indulge in technically-legal cheese like making a single character a Thrall or Disciple of more than one demon or devil. The build could use quite a bit of tweaking--I'd like to get Divine Crusader in earlier and apply caster levels to it, and I'd like to find a way to get the BAB to +16--but it's a start. I'll tweak it when I actually have access to my books, and can double-check to make sure it all works. Edit: Hmm. 11 classes. I'll have to fix that, too. Will work on it later.
Prominence 01-02-06, 06:01 PM	Survivor comes to mind as another +2/3 all saves, if that's all you're going for.
thegraveyard 01-03-06, 09:21 AM	Caelic, good build Prominence, I am looking for the best base attack bonus with the highest possible saves, but without going under bab +12 I am working on a new build and I've gotten much better saves with a higher BAB than my last one, it also has a little better saves in some areas than Caelic's build but with a lower bab than his by 2. The build will be posted later today.
Surreal 01-03-06, 11:19 AM	similar thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=513497)
SaintX 01-03-06, 12:32 PM	The Build: Warforged ranger 2 monk 2 favored soul 2 bloodhound 2 beastmaster 2 initiate of the draconic mysteries 2 soul eater 2 tatooed monk 2 eldeen ranger 2 disciple of Mephistopheles 2 Base Saves: Fort 30 Ref 30 Will 18 Base Attack Bonus: +16/+11/+6/+1 Feats: 1 – Disciple of Darkness R1 - Track R2 - Two Weapon Fighting 3 - Endurance M1- Improved Unarmed Strike M1- Improved Grapple M2 – Combat Reflexes 6- Power Attack 9 – Second Slam? BM2 - Alertness 12 – Weapon Focus Slam 15 - 18 - Evil Brand Books Used: Players Handbook 3.5 Eberron Campaign Setting Draconomicon Book of Vile Darkness Complete Warrior Complete Adventurer Complete Divine BAB + Base Saves = 94
CubeKnight 01-03-06, 01:33 PM	The Build: Human Mnk 2/Drd 2/Clr 2/Rgr 2/Brd 2/Drs 2/IotDM 2/TDD 2/CAn 2/TtM 2 ... Alignment: Any lawful, any Neutral, Any nonlawful, any nonchaotic Am I the only noticing the clashing alignments?
thegraveyard 01-03-06, 06:22 PM	The Build: Warforged Monk 2/Ranger 2/Soulknife 2/thrall of juiblex 2/favored soul 2/the initiate of the draconic mysteries 2/soul eater 2/incarnate 1/tatttooed monk 2/umbral disciple 2/incarnate 1 Base Saves: Fort – 24 Ref – 28 Will – 27 Base Attack Bonus: +13/+8/+3 Feats: willing deformity, improved grapple, improved trip, thrall to demon, track, twf, wild talent, alertness, power attack, weapon focus (slam), endurance, ??? Books Used: BoVD, ECS, CW, XPHB, Draconomicon, PHB, MoI Class Requirements: Race: Any living nonhumanoid (monstrous humanoid acceptable) Feats: willing deformity, improved grapple, improved trip, thrall to demon, track, alertness, power attack, weapon focus (slam), endurance Skills: escape artist 5 ranks, concentration 6 ranks, jump 8 ranks, knowledge (arcana) 2 ranks, knowledge (religion) 8 ranks, hide 8 ranks, listen 8 ranks Alignment: any evil, any lawful Base Attack Bonus: +3 Base Fort Save: +6 Base Ref Save: Base Will Save: Language: Draconic Spellcasting: Special: yes that is my build, slowly looking through my books that are up to date, except for BoVD which I might update manually after scouring through the web to find erratas and the like. with the base saves up, and the BAB up and with less classes than Caelic's build, I think this one might beat his, but I will not be the judge since his might be more versitile with the feats. unlike my first build, there is no conflict between alignments, the only iffy thing about it is skill point progression. now onto answering some of the questions and other misc. items on this thread... Surreal, its a nice thread I'll say that and I will look at how many classes are used and I probably don't have all the material used on some of the builds since I am shy a few books, the total for this new build is 92, since feats do not add to the base save bonus (added only because of that thread), mine is close to some on the thread that you so kindly linked, since on that one I saw a 108, I am 17 away, if I could keep the saves and add 3 to the base attack I would top that with a total of 95 most likely (wishful thinking on my part :D ) SaintX, excellent build, could use some work but it does best mine and this new build, though over all my saves beat yours on the total, though just by 1 and it seems that out builds have the same problem of 1 open feat. Cubeknight, yes there is an alignment error in the build that you question bust also note that this is addressed by rule 5 5 – Class requirements need only to be met in order to gain entry to the class, they do not need to be kept since this is just about the base saves and bab. this might contradict rule 3 3 – Double check your build to make sure it is legal, and use the same format as I have when posting your build. it needs to be legal to meet the requirements, the way you meet those requirements is up to the player, since you can have the alignment shift over the course of the characters life, the alignment restrictions can be met, but not kept. all in all, the builds all look promising, and remember, it is about the highest base saves, though I should say all individual base saves (total might matter if the builds are close) in addition to the highest base save you can get. have fun, keep trying, hmm... this might be fun to notice as well, but this is one area that pun-pun can never win in.. odd, but hey, I don't want this to become another pun-pun challenge thread (too many out there), its just an observence.
Tempest Stormwind 01-03-06, 06:50 PM	this might be fun to notice as well, but this is one area that pun-pun can never win in.. odd, but hey, I don't want this to become another pun-pun challenge thread (too many out there), its just an observence. Not really. We found a way to grant infinite HD. This means, in part, that he has an infinite base save of all three types, in two classes (wizard+master of many forms), and an infinite base attack bonus (assuming the epic bonus counts as a base). And he does this at level 5. But yes, this is a difficult challenge if he's not invited.
thegraveyard 01-03-06, 08:05 PM	Not really. We found a way to grant infinite HD. This means, in part, that he has an infinite base save of all three types, in two classes (wizard+master of many forms), and an infinite base attack bonus (assuming the epic bonus counts as a base). And he does this at level 5. But yes, this is a difficult challenge if he's not invited. This I did not know, thank you kindly for bringing it up, perhaps I should also say that the ECL or HD cannot exceed 20. again, I thank you for telling us, I have not been able to get through all the pun-pun threads.
SoulGamit 01-03-06, 08:53 PM	Ex-Paladin 4 / Hexblade 3 / Blackguard 2 / Bone Knight 7 / Rogue 2 / Witch Hunter 1 / Charisma to saves 3 times, 4 times against spells. Have a charisma of 18, add everything into it through levels, so you'll have 22 charisma... this will give you a +18 to saves and another +6 against spells. In addition, it has both mettle and evasion. That's not even counting the decent saves you gain the various classes. You can replace 6 levels of Bone Knight with various PrCs.
thegraveyard 01-03-06, 09:00 PM	... Ex-Paladin 4 / Hexblade 3 / Blackguard 2 / Bone Knight 7 / Rogue 2 / Witch Hunter 1 / Charisma to saves 3 times, 4 times against spells. Have a charisma of 18, add everything into it through levels, get a +6 item of charisma, and get a +5 inherent bonus so you'll have 34 charisma... this will give you a +36 to saves and another +12 against spells. In addition, it has both mettle and evasion. You can trade in another 2 levels of rogue for a ring of evasion if your so inclined. There might be many things wrong with this: Base Saves only, not the end result since you get no gold to buy items, and they do not increase base saves What is the Base Attack Bonus? Even if this were allowed, the charisma bonuses might not even stack. others might also comment on your build and this post to point out different errors, but as it stands this build is not accepted into the challenge, though congrats on giving a build.
general.Muse 01-03-06, 09:01 PM	... Ex-Paladin 4 / Hexblade 3 / Blackguard 2 / Bone Knight 7 / Rogue 2 / Witch Hunter 1 / Charisma to saves 3 times, 4 times against spells. Have a charisma of 18, add everything into it through levels, get a +6 item of charisma, and get a +5 inherent bonus so you'll have 34 charisma... this will give you a +36 to saves and another +12 against spells. In addition, it has both mettle and evasion. You can trade in another 2 levels of rogue for a ring of evasion if your so inclined. hey, ex pally would make him lose divine grace or whatever it's called, yeah? better go with evil paladin variant from unearthed arcana. ;]
SoulGamit 01-03-06, 09:31 PM	They are regained via bone knight, although paladin variant would add cha to saves again. And RAW, they do stack. That said, I didn't see the part were it said base saves... allow me to try again. Monk 2 / Fighter 2 / Ranger 2 / Bloodhound 1 / Diciple of Dissapator 2 / Disciple of Meph... something or another 2 / Thrall of Jubilex 2 / Soul Eater 2 / Henshin Mystic 2 / Initiate of Draconic Mysteries 2 / Tattooed Monk 1 This will get you base saves of +31 fort +28 ref +23 will BAB of +15
thegraveyard 01-03-06, 09:58 PM	They are regained via bone knight, although paladin variant would add cha to saves again. And RAW, they do stack. That said, I didn't see the part were it said base saves... allow me to try again. Monk 2 / Fighter 2 / Ranger 2 / Bloodhound 1 / Diciple of Dissapator 2 / Disciple of Meph... something or another 2 / Thrall of Jubilex 2 / Soul Eater 2 / Henshin Mystic 2 / Initiate of Draconic Mysteries 2 / Tattooed Monk 1 This will get you base saves of +31 fort +28 ref +23 will BAB of +15 Nice build, but first off, you should check the materials for the prerequisites for each class, the feats needed for both thrall or disciple cannot be gained, look at the feats description. 11 classes, try doing it in less, but good job non-the-less. use the format I used above for a better picture and as I said in the rules, make sure it is legal as stated in rule 3 and check rule 5. you should also give the race with the build, hence the format, though keep trying, you might get it next time. I implore everyone to carefully read the challenge and the rules and look at the previous builds. The current leaders of the builds are as follows for the top 10: 1st place - SaintX (94) 2nd place - TGY (me; 92) 3rd place - Caelic (89) ------------------------ 4th place - TGY (83) 5th place - monk (51) 6th place - ranger (50) 7th place - druid (45) 8th place - cleric (45) 9th place - bard (45) have fun everyone, I'll keep looking for the other builds that will wrestle first place away from SaintX and lets see if anyone can get higher than 108. How to read scores: First Attack bonus from BAB plus each base save.
SoulGamit 01-04-06, 01:03 AM	Man I'm having an off day... Warforged Overwhelming Attack Monk 2 / Ranger 2 / Favored Soul 2 / Initiate of Draconic Mysteries 2 / Animal Lord (Wold) 2 / Shining Blade of Heironious 2 / Soul Eater 2 / Disciple of Dissapator 2 / Tattooed Monk 2 / Sacred Fist 1 / Disciple of Mephistopheles 1 Base Saves: Fort – 29 Ref – 29 Will – 21 Base Attack Bonus: +16/+11/+6/+1 Feats: 1- Disciple of Darkness 1b- Improved Unarmed Strike 1b- Power Attack 2b- Improved Bull Rush 3- Endurance 3b- Track 6- Alertness 9- Power Attack 12- Weapon Focus (Slam) 15- Combat Expertise 18- Evil Brand
Caelic 01-04-06, 04:35 PM	Well, heck, I was specifically going out of my way to AVOID multiple Thrall or Disciple classes, as noted in my original post. If we're going to add those in, it gets even easier. 1. Monk 1: Disciple of Darkness, Improved Unarmed Strike (b), Stunning Fist (b) 2. Monk 2: Combat Reflexes (b) 3. Favored Soul 1: WF (UAS) 4. Favored Soul 2 5. Ranger 1: Track (b), Combat Style (TWF) 6. Ranger 2: Alertness 7. Ranger 3: Endurance (b) 8. Shintao Monk 1 9. Shintao Monk 2: Evil Brand, Combat Expertise (b) 10. Disciple of Mephistopheles 1 11. Disciple of Mephistopheles 2 12. Soul Eater 1: Power Attack 13. Soul Eater 2 14. Disciple of Dispater 1 15. Disciple of Dispater 2: Thrall to Demon 16. Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries 1 17. Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries 2 18. Thrall of Juiblex 1: Willing Deformity 19. Thrall of Juiblex 2 20. We're currently at +27/+27/+25, and +16 BAB. That gives me an aggregate score of 95, nine classes used, and I still have one level left to play with. :)
thegraveyard 01-04-06, 06:22 PM	SoulGamit, nice build, but for future notice please post in the prescribed format given. Caelic, one more level of Disciple of Mephistopheles with get you another +1 to BAB. But Thralls and Disciples are not legal together. good builds both of you, I will do my best to find most of the prerequisites to make sure they are both legal since you haven't shown the classes prerequisites.
Caelic 01-04-06, 06:32 PM	Oh, I believe I can do a lot better than just +1 more BAB. You're right about the incompatibility of Thrall and Disciple, though...although...hmm. Yes, yes it IS still possible. Oh, that's TOO cheesy, though.
thegraveyard 01-04-06, 06:44 PM	If you were thinking of Psychic Reformation, you would have to pay for it, unless you yourself made a psion.
SoulGamit 01-04-06, 06:54 PM	Actually you could use leadership to gain a psion that could cast it for you. Speaking of which, you should ban leadership since I believe one could just use fusion to get even higher base saves (I forget if they are combined though, so I may be wrong). Psychic reformation costs exp anyways though, so you'd lose a level if you cast it. I did use the format you prescribed, I thought? What am I missing? Caelic- how are you qualifying for shintao monk without still mind? Also, you can't be both a disciple and a thrall, since those feats are mutually exculsive. You may, however, be a disciple to multiple demons or a thrall to multiple demons by just switching (you lose class features, not BAB or saves). Since the Disciple of Darkness feat doesn't make you specify a demon, you don't even need to take it twice.
Caelic 01-04-06, 07:05 PM	Actually, you can, SG--working on the build that'll allow me to have both even as we speak. :)
Caelic 01-04-06, 08:48 PM	Hmm. Well, using Chameleon to scoff both Thrall and Disciple proved just too problematic for the nonce. Instead, here's my latest revision: Changeling Mnk 3/FS 2/ShM 2/SS 2/SE 2/DoD 2/DoM 2/TtM 2/IotDM 2/??? 1 Abbreviations: DoD – Disciple of Dispater (BoVD) DoM – Disciple of Mammon (BoVD) FS - Favored Soul (CD) IotDM – Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries (Draconomicon) Mnk – Monk (PHB) SE - Soul Eater (BoVD) ShM - Shintao Monk (OA) SS - Shapeshifter (OA) TtM – Tattooed Monk (CW) Base Saves: Fort – 27+ Ref – 27+ Will – 27+ Base Attack Bonus: +12+ Feats: 1b- Improved Unarmed Strike 1b- Improved Grapple 1- Alertness 2b- Combat Reflexes 3- Weapon Focus (UAS) 6b- Combat Expertise 6- Disciple of Darkness 9- Power Attack 12- Evil Brand 15- ??? 18-??? Books Used: Players Handbook 3.5 Dungeon Master’s Guide 3.5 Draconomicon Oriental Adventures Book of Vile Darkness Complete Warrior Class Requirements: Race: Changeling or Shifter Feats: Disciple of Darkness, Evil Brand, WF (natural weapon,) Alertness, Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Improved Grapple, Combat Reflexes Skills: (Will tally these up in a bit.) Alignment: Lawful Good, any lawful, any evil Base Attack Bonus: +5, +6 Base Ref Save: Base Will Save: Language: Draconic We're really taking advantage of the "Must only meet requirements at the time the class is taken" clause here--I get into Soul Eater by using Wildshape to become an animal--thus a nonhumanoid, and thus eligible for Soul Eater. I haven't quite decided how to finish off the build yet. If I can dig out my old Sword and Fist, I'm thinking a level of Red Avenger (which, IIRC, is another +1 BAB and +2 to all saves, for a total score of 100.) For the moment, let's just stick in a level of Ranger--bringing my current total to 98.
thegraveyard 01-05-06, 06:17 PM	Caelic, yes indeed you are taking it to an extreme in that essence of using wild shape (or other forms there of) to gain access to Soul Eater, but you could or might be able to do the same with flaws... almost surprised that no one has used them. I will post more as I look over some of the builds again.
Caelic 01-05-06, 08:22 PM	I'm actually still trying to show some restraint. If I wanted more feats, I'd be abusing the taint rules in Heroes of Horror. :)
SoulGamit 01-05-06, 08:43 PM	Heh... I just realized, I can beat this class using only two classes, by level 15. Fighter 5 / Kensai 10 Using a literal interpretation of the Ki Warlord ability, I an ALWAYS expect to get help from an unlimited supply of lower-leveled kensai. I can have these lower level kensai use their instill ability to grant me NI base attack and base saves.
SaintX 01-05-06, 09:05 PM	are we limiting the builds to 10 classes? or we could factor in the number of classes used as a penalty. BAB + Base Fort Save + Base Ref Save + Base Will Save - Number of Classes used = Challenge Sum? just an idea
thegraveyard 01-05-06, 09:17 PM	are we limiting the builds to 10 classes? or we could factor in the number of classes used as a penalty. BAB + Base Fort Save + Base Ref Save + Base Will Save - Number of Classes used = Challenge Sum? just an idea No, you can use as many classes as you want, but people have been getting best results with less I believe, look at Caelics most recent build, it uses 9 classes and comes close to 100. Caelic, in regards to your build, thank you for using the format. SoulGambit - The literal interpetation means its an unnamed bonus that stacks with eachother, well thats how it looks to me anyways, but it does not instill higher base attack bonus or higher base saves. Though this could be argued by other people. Hmm... (27*3 = 81, + 12 comes to be) 93. so then with the suggestion, it would be 100.. only thing I just saw for now. Well, good builds thus far, I hope to see more as I work on a new one again, then I will post the standings up until that point.
SaintX 01-06-06, 12:15 AM	The Build: Tiefling Mnk 2/ TP 2/ FS 2/ TM 2/ IotDM 2/ RA 1/ SE 2/ NotCM 2/ DoD 2/ DoM 2 Abbreviations: Mnk – Monk TP – Tiefling Paragon FS – Favored Soul TM – Tattooed Monk IotDM – Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries RA – Red Avenger SE – Soul Eater NotCM – Ninja of the Crescent Moon DoD – Disciple of Dispater DoM – Disciple of Mephestopheles Base Saves: Fort – 29 Ref – 29 Will – 29 Base Attack Bonus: +14/+9/+4 Feats: Flaw inattentive Flaw shaky m1 stunning fist m1 IUS m2 deflect arrows f1 improved grapple f2 combat expertise 1 alertness 3 power attack 6 endurance 9 weapon focus unarmed 12 quick draw 15 disciple of darkness 18 evil brand Books Used: Players Handbook 3.5 Draconomicon Complete Warrior Complete Divine Unearthed Arcana Book of Vile Darkness Sword and Fist Class Requirements: Race: Living nonhumanoid Feats: Endurance, Improved Grapple, Improved Unarmed Strike, Deflect Arrows, Quick draw, Alertness, Power Attack, Disciple of Darkness, Evil Brand, Combat Expertise, Stunning Fist, Weapon Focus Unarmed Skills: Knowledge (religion) 8, Jump 8, Knowledge (arcana) 6, Hide 10, Move Silently 10, Concentration 6, Tumble 8, Listen 8 Alignment: Any lawful, Any Evil Base Attack Bonus: +3, +5, +6 Base Fort Save: Base Ref Save: Base Will Save: Language: Draconic Spellcasting: Special: Evasion class feature, must contact Crescent Moon leadership. Dispater’s sect initiates new disciples in a terrible ritual that involves the sacrifice of an intelligent being atop an altar made of iron. The ritual must take place in the presence of an erinyes, who reports back to Dispater afterward. The sect of Mephistopheles welcomes new disciples with a terrible ritual that involves the sacrifice of an intelligent being in magical fire. Soul eaters are usually created against their will. Sometimes the emissary of an evil god or powerful fiend approaches a monster on the verge of death. In exchange for continued life, the creature must feed on souls thereafter. More rarely, a creature desiring the ability to feed on souls undergoes a forbidden, profane ritual that allows it to become a soul eater.
thegraveyard 01-07-06, 02:07 AM	SaintX, good build. oh, and I've found a way (as per the rules I layed out) how to get both the Thrall and the Disciple classes, one just needs to have 2 or 3 level dip into Chameleon because of its bonus feat feature. the highest score that I can come up with is about 130, but that is using gestalt or without, the maximum score that I can see being pulled off with the following: BAB: 20 Fort/Ref/Will: 40/40/40 is a total of 140 albeit, I am working, with many headaches at trying to surpass the 102 benchmark that has been set.
Neeek 01-07-06, 03:44 AM	the highest score that I can come up with is about 130, but that is using gestalt or without, the maximum score that I can see being pulled off with the following: BAB: 20 Fort/Ref/Will: 40/40/40 is a total of 140 Hmm. I think you might be mistaken there. With the 10 class maximum, the max should be 110. BAB: 20 Fort/Ref/Will 30/30/30
thegraveyard 01-07-06, 09:19 AM	Neek, if you can get a score of 140 with 20 classes, that will indefinately win this challenge, gestalts need 21 or more classes just to get it. aye, the rules did state to use the same amount of classes or less to be elgible for the win. if anyone can get higher than 140, I don't know how, but if they do, they should call themselves record makers or breakers , or some other title worthy of the job of getting more than 40/40/40 for their saves or combinations there of with a bab higher than 15
Caelic 01-07-06, 12:17 PM	SaintX, good build. oh, and I've found a way (as per the rules I layed out) how to get both the Thrall and the Disciple classes, one just needs to have 2 or 3 level dip into Chameleon because of its bonus feat feature. Tried this and discarded it, as I noted in the first few lines of my last attempt. The problem is that it requires a two-level dip in a class with the worst saves in the game--the payoff of being able to add Thrall classes can't make up for that. You may also want to determine whether high-ECL races are permissible--there are a few that could really be abused when it comes to saving throws, even if their number of classes was limited. One final thought: how are spells that actually and explicitly change your BAB (like Divine Power) going to count for purposes of scoring the build? I'm pretty sure I could craft a build with +30's to saves and a lousy BAB who could then cast Persistent Divine Power and raise his BAB to +20 for the entire day.
thegraveyard 01-07-06, 02:47 PM	Caelic, true, they are the worst saves in the game, as stated in the challenge/rules section on page one, if one truely must use gestalt rules, then it might favor a chameleon build. However, if one does use gestalt I am not sure but it might go against a few CO commandments and will be grouped differently and scored differently. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For divine power to be used, you will need Clr 7 to gain 4th level spells, or have enough boosting classes do do this and take a two feat dip to gain access to divine metamagic with persistant spell, using 8 turn attempts, so might use a domain to gain extra turning feat or use a third feat to gain it. Limiting you greatly of what classes you chose. And with no money (that also means no starting equipment) you will be pressed to get the divine focus required to cast the spell. The feats might not be a problem, since one could always take the following flaws: pathetic and vulnerable though those two flaws might not be the best for "optimizers", pathetic is the only one that might greatly effect a character between the two, since the other flaw just gives a -1 to AC. But if you do find away around the money issue, and thereby gaining the divine focus, then show the build, I look forward to seeing it. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The High ECL races? as long as it doesn't go over the ECL 20 limitation with XP used to obtain their ECL, then show the race and lets see what you can come up with. Go all out in the builds, but keep things hidden for a later date unless you really want to a title that no-one else can obtain within and by level (ECL) 20. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The rough draft for my next build I will post is coming along nicely, though I find it hard to find the right classes for him, having no OA or FR books to look at or through. some might even consider the shou disciple (sp?) from FR, is it a class, can't really remember where I last saw it.
SaintX 01-11-06, 11:13 PM	its been a nice challenge so far, but im waiting to see what the next build is before i reveal what i have up my sleeve.