Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Paradisio 09-21-05, 11:13 PM	I know, the optimization board generally is about focusing on a single thing and maxing the heck out of it. But my party has several large voids due to everyone making barbarians. Basically the party has no: -Druid (well, I am the current one) -Face character -Rogue -Arcane caster for utility/blasting -Healer, the party has a cleric, but he doesn't heal. I have pretty good stats to work with. 16, 12, 15, 12, 14, 19 and then 3 free points. Yes, I know, I have a 19, but my DM does weird stat rolls, don't worry about it. This is quite the challenge, and I am interested in any advice the board can give. Very Important: No campaign specific stuff, psionics, or 3.0 stuff.
ninjarabbit 09-21-05, 11:20 PM	Sounds like the party need the party in a box. human rogue2/bard7/fighter1/sublimechord2/sacredexorcist4/spellsword1/eldritchknight3 Make sure your first 2 feats are Able Learner and Nymph's Kiss. This should fill most of your needs.
slade_caizer 09-21-05, 11:21 PM	I know, the optimization board generally is about focusing on a single thing and maxing the heck out of it. But my party has several large voids due to everyone making barbarians. Basically the party has no: -Druid (well, I am the current one) -Face character -Rogue -Arcane caster for utility/blasting -Healer, the party has a cleric, but he doesn't heal. I have pretty good stats to work with. 16, 12, 15, 12, 14, 19 and then 3 free points. Yes, I know, I have a 19, but my DM does weird stat rolls, don't worry about it. This is quite the challenge, and I am interested in any advice the board can give.Ok...a druid can be a great healer...Hrmm...if you did a Druid/Sorcerer/ArcaneHeirophant you'd have the Druid/healer/Arcanist roles down. And because of the charisma focus you could be a decent face. That leaves Rogue...hrmm.... A Rogue/Druid/DaggerspellShaper could do the Rogue/healer/Druid angle, but it wouldn't cover the arcane. The trick is that I wouldn't want you to spread yourself too thin. You have plenty of tanks, from the sounds of it so that gives you plenty of flexibility to be more "vulnerable". Alternately you could do a Rogue/Wizard/ArcaneTrickster and rely on UMD and wands and scrolls for the healing. The thing is that I prefer a Rogue/Sorcerer/DaggerspellMage to the Arcane Trickster, but that's a style call. In the end, we know what roles are open, but what do you want to fill in? [Edit: Well, it looks like the ninja was posting while I was. Very sneaky. ;) That's a rather solid build and makes me feel pretty silly.]
PhaedrusXY 09-21-05, 11:32 PM	Sounds like the party need the party in a box. human rogue2/bard7/fighter1/sublimechord2/sacredexorcist4/spellsword1/eldritchknight3 Make sure your first 2 feats are Able Learner and Nymph's Kiss. This should fill most of your needs.Why mess with EK? Drop that, and go sublimechord3/spellsword3.
catharz 09-21-05, 11:35 PM	Are you playing a druid or not?
Paradisio 09-21-05, 11:37 PM	Currently, I am. I am a bit late to shift into arcane hierophant thought.
PonTelon 09-21-05, 11:49 PM	Basically the party has no: -Druid (well, I am the current one) -Face character -Rogue -Arcane caster for utility/blasting -Healer, the party has a cleric, but he doesn't heal. I find it interesting that you list Druids on the list, since they are many different things. Never thought a group HAD to have one. :P I'd say Chameleon on right down your alley. You can be a healer/arcanist both fairly easy. Rogue can either be taken as a basis before Chameleon, or taken as part of the form. One that might be interesting would be: Changling Druid 4/Master of Many Forms 6/Chameleon 10 with taking Chameleon as soon as possible. I just like the flavor of it. You can drop the druid levels for something else fun if you DM allows Divine Minion(link in my sig) or Totem Druid from Dragon Magazine(unsure of the number right now, one of the newest ones though). Both would be 1 level and qualify for Master of Many Forms at ECL 2(well, it costs 2 feats, so later for Changling) Also, with Master of Many Forms, you can change to what part you need. Need healing? Turn into a Unicorn or something. Need Rogue-ish abilities? There is a race that gives +5d6 sneak attack, I'm pretty sure. For more info on this whole idea, in my sig I have The Pretender Build. Just pimping out a fun idea. :cool:
Paradisio 09-22-05, 01:00 AM	Unfortunately, Divine Minion is both FRCS (and thus not allowed) and super cheese.
jstorrie 09-22-05, 01:50 AM	What's set already, aside from your rolls and class:druid? What level are you starting at? What race? etc., etc. Give us some more detail and we can give you better advice!
Paradisio 09-22-05, 12:29 PM	Well, I was planning on making a new character, not converting my current one. Right now I'm a level 8 druid. 18 Int, 22 Wisdom, 14 charisma... don't remember physical stats.
Eidolon Faer 09-23-05, 09:44 AM	1. The problem of the Cleric 'not healing' can neatly be solved by letting the party get its' asses majorly kicked a few times then staring meaningfully at the Cleric's player. Likely this will also thin out the barbarians a bit. 2. Druids have a relatively difficult time curing negative levels and repairing stat damage...something you're going to see tons of in an undead-centered campaign. Given those two observations, you're not going to be able to fix the problem alone. Obviously your party is going to need to rethink their Barbarian obsession. Also, given that you need a face, and arcane caster, and a healer, might I suggest a Bard? They get Cure Light Wounds, and will therefore be able to do decently well with wands. The Requiem feat from Libris Mortis allows bardsong to affect Undead, allowing Suggestion or Fascinate attempts. You'd have the Face role covered in spades. You're an arcane caster. And you can somewhat heal, well enough to minimize deaths while the Cleric gets his head out of his ******, at least.
Blade2718 09-23-05, 10:12 AM	This looks like a job for Ted the Enabler!
Sang-Drax 09-23-05, 11:13 AM	Wow. It seems you need a Fochlucan Lyrist... too bad it sucks so much. A straight druid could fill most of these roles, but, as Eidolon pointed out, you miss ability repariring. On the other, maybe there's a way to take those spells with a domain... anybody knows a domain that grants restoration? If so, you could go Druid 19/Contemplative 1 and you'd be fine.
Runeblood7 09-23-05, 12:01 PM	Why does it suck, again? I'm interested on people's opinions on this, since it was brought up. Full BaB, decent saves, Arcane and Divine every level, more bardic musics. It seems like a perfect gish thing.
catharz 09-23-05, 12:24 PM	Why does it suck, again? I'm interested on people's opinions on this, since it was brought up. Full BaB, decent saves, Arcane and Divine every level, more bardic musics. It seems like a perfect gish thing. The PrC doesn't suck, you just have to suck (or, Min/Max god forgive me, be very cheesy) to qualify.
solbergb 09-23-05, 12:40 PM	Basically the party has no: But my party has several large voids due to everyone making barbarians. -Druid (well, I am the current one) -Face character -Rogue -Arcane caster for utility/blasting -Healer, the party has a cleric, but he doesn't heal. Hm. That sounds to me like what you need is a core bard. Tempting to shift to warchanter later, but with no arcane caster....bard. What it brings to the table: Face character Rogue (for alertness and scouting, if not trapfinding) Arcane utility caster (haste, rage, inspire courage+inspirational boost, confusion, tasha's laughter, glitterdust, silence, shatter, suggestion, charm). You don't get a lot of spells per day, but the ones you have can make all the difference. Just as one example, lighting up the invisible attacker is better than dumping an area effect spell on him. It means all your hyper-enhanced barbarian and fighter-cleric buddies can now beat the tar out of him...even if he makes his save. Likewise a silence on your most mobile barbarian can generally shut down enemy casters better than most direct action spells. Healing (minimal - mostly out of combat probably with wands of CLW, but you could have one of your spell known be the highest level cure you can cast to give a little incombat healing) You don't need another tank (so much of the druid role is not needed), your party is stuffed full of tanks and light infantry. What you need is someone to make them all better. Bard. As for the cleric - a cleric who doesn't heal in combat can still do the "Between fight" healing - in particular things like restoration which a bard can't duplicate. It isn't like you don't have a cleric. You just can't count on him to do the medic-support role in combat.
solbergb 09-23-05, 12:43 PM	Why does it suck, again? I'm interested on people's opinions on this, since it was brought up. Full BaB, decent saves, Arcane and Divine every level, more bardic musics. It seems like a perfect gish thing. The lyricist sucks because the classes you need to qualify have little synergy for each other. Which means 10 levels of suctitude before the (quite nice) PRC starts paying back. IMHO, the best role for a pre-Lyricist is the rogue role. Use the druid and bard abilities to enhance the skill-monkey aspect and forget about trying to be a caster, light infantry or whatever. Keep your party out of ambushes, handle the social situations and contribute best as you can in combat by enhancing others and maybe getting an odd sneak attack in from time to time.
carnivore 09-23-05, 12:50 PM	8th lvl.........try this: Human Rogue(Feat rogue variant) 1/ Marshal 1/ Artificer 6 12 Str 15 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 12 Wis 22 Cha feats: Blooded......................bonus to Initiative,Spot,Immune to Shaken condition Nymphs Kiss...........bonus to Diplomacy,Extra Skill points Undead Empathy..............Diplomacy affects undead Skill focus(Diplomacy) Extend spell Persistant spell or Twin Spell Scribe Scroll Brew Potion Craft Wondrous Item Craft Homonculus Craft Magic Arms and Armor Max skills: Spot UMD Diplomacy Bluff Sense motive :D
g23armani 09-23-05, 01:07 PM	Ranger 1/Wizard 2/Human Paragon 3/Harper Paragon/Master of Yuirwood Take UMD as your skill known at all levels from human paragon. Get a musteival guardinal celestial familiar. Since he shares your skill ranks, give him wands of curing and have him be the healer. Or wands of fireball for that matter...Also, since your familiar is a celestial you can use outsider polymorph. If you build it right you end up with a caster level of 18, great HPs (almost entirely d8, meaning your familiar will be somewhat decent), somewhat decent BAB (better if you can convince your DM to let you use fractional BAB), great diplomacy/face skills, favored enemy evil, tracking + many more goodies. Make sure to take nymphs kiss at first level as well for extra skill points/diplomacy synergy. G23armani
PhaedrusXY 09-23-05, 01:30 PM	Ranger 1/Wizard 2/Human Paragon 3/Harper Paragon/Master of YuirwoodI'm guessing this is a half-elf? That is the only race that could take all these classes. You didn't specify this in your post, however. I agree that it would be a fun character. I like the MotY PrC alot.
g23armani 09-23-05, 01:49 PM	Right, forgot about the racial requirement for Master of Yuirwood, I don't think half elves can take human paragon can they?...either way harper paragon will take you into the mid teens...in the mean time you can figure something else to take when you get to that point =). Ooh, actually you could take the new elf friend PrC, (Ruathor?) that would be perfect, and make sense from a roleplaying perspective. In fact, you could probably convince your DM to let you take master of yuirwood after finishing the three level Ruathor class. G23armani
PhaedrusXY 09-23-05, 02:08 PM	Right, forgot about the racial requirement for Master of Yuirwood, I don't think half elves can take human paragon can they?Doh, you're right. They have to take at least 1 level of half-elf paragon first. I was thinking they could just take levels in elf, half-elf, or human paragon by default...
Paradisio 09-25-05, 01:16 PM	I appreciate the advice. But most of what has been suggested I can not use, please read the post again.
UMiskatonic 09-25-05, 01:33 PM	Druid/Master of Radiance might work really well for you. It's a simple fix, and would get you the ability to turn undead. From there, you need to take something like Spurn Death's Touch, so you can burn your relatively weak turn attempts for other things. It's a simple fix, and only requires one book (Libris Mortis).