Best 12th Level Character [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best 12th Level Character [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
feintmaster
08-30-05, 12:51 AM Alright we saw the incredible power that a twelfth level character can have in the other thread. But an impossible to beat charcter is not fun to play, let alone fight (DM's aren't the enemy). I'm talking about the type of character that can still do a lot of damage, but still be roleplayable. But for gameplay, what do you guys think that the best 12th level character would be?

Try to answer without using "broken" characters, and the like, simply optimized.
Ranix
08-30-05, 01:02 AM The most well-rounded, possibly most fun level 12 character is....

here it comes...

ready..?

Druid 12

Seriously though, optimizers go around and around and like to play whatever the latest character they've come up with is. Right now I'm building lots of gish and bards, but Joe Schmoe might be looking at a Persistant Spell wizard, or maybe a swashbuckling Champion of Corellon. Jack Sprat wants to do a Supermount Dragonrider.

Just go with whatever build excites you the most at the time.
PhaedrusXY
08-30-05, 01:08 AM I agree with Ranix 100%. Having said that, if I were joining a game at level 12 in the near future, I'd play this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6941472), if it were allowed. There are alot more powerful builds I know, but I think it would be alot of fun and useful. The Eberron feat Whirling Steel Strike would be great to go with it, also. Or even better, the one that lets you flurry with a longspear.
Ranix
08-30-05, 01:31 AM imho, your build would be better with Psychic Warrior cut out of it. Get a PP reserve another way and go for higher hit dice and save a bab, no?

Edit: Wait, what? Monk? OK, well, whatever. You're obviously not going for the superpower award with this one, but it's a good build and it definitely inspired me. I never thought the Warmind or the Elocator were good for anything.
PhaedrusXY
08-30-05, 01:37 AM imho, your build would be better with Psychic Warrior cut out of it. Get a PP reserve another way and go for higher hit dice and save a bab, no?

Edit: Wait, what? Monk? OK, well, whatever. You're obviously not going for the superpower award with this one, but it's a good build and it definitely inspired me. I never thought the Warmind or the Elocator were good for anything.Hmm... a lenient DM would probably let the Exotic Weapon Master's flurry ability qualify you for the Sun School feat. That's the reason the monk level is in there. I might work up a version using that and maybe without the psywarrior levels, too. It would be alot better at dishing out damage, for sure.
El_Machinae
08-30-05, 02:12 AM By 12th level, a lot of builds have gone through the pain of developing, and are starting to climb. Druid 7/Wiz 3 is painful, but Druid 7/Wiz 3/ Heirophant 2 is just starting to get fun.

However, 12th level is still missing the great 'zowies' some characters have. The Hammer of Moradin doesn't have the 'line o' death' power yet (sigh), the Frenzied Berserker is still waffling over putting points into Power Attack.

For 12th level, I'm trying to think of a good Stalker of Kharesh/ Frenzied Berzerker idea. I think that would be good fun. Better yet, seeing if an honest-to-goodness Dwarven Trollslayer is still viable at that level would be fun.
deusxmachina
08-30-05, 03:01 AM Ranix has it. If you're a druid, you can basically do whatever you feel like. Cast spells, do some Spirited Charging on a mount, wildshape into something that flies, or something that is a big melee machine, whatever. Whatever you feel like doing that day, you can pretty much do. You'll never out-do a Barbarian at pure melee damage output, but you don't do so bad, either. That fun is also a curse. One of my characters is a druid, and often the question isn't how will I kill the evil guy, it's how should I kill the evil guy.

I make it well-known to the group that I hold back on the cheese on purpose but will bring it out if I have to. Some of the stuff you can do with even a by-the-books druid is pretty ridiculous. One time the party was getting creamed by a monster that shouldn't have been there at that level, so I turned on the cheese and wildshaped into an octopus that then held its breath on land and promptly killed the threat with its EIGHT Improved Grab attacks.

There is nothing more versatile than a druid. Problem is, sometimes you don't want that. For another campaign, I'm currently working on a fighter build with a main goal of a huge threat range. He stands in one spot and whacks people, and that's all he does. Just stands there and AoO people at 25'. It's fun, but in a different way. It's not always fun having to think about what is the best way to kill a guy.

If I used a whip, he could whack people at 35'. Neato.

Anyway, there's plenty of fun characters to play. I surprisingly have a good time playing my 6 Charisma cleric in Living Greyhawk. He's pretty lousy at melee, he's not much of a talker, but he's a wall who stands there with his high AC and laughs when people try to hit him. Role-playing a 6 Charisma can be pretty fun, too.
Ranix
08-30-05, 05:24 AM If I used a whip, he could whack people at 35'. Neato.

Try this:

Changeling Fighter4/Warshaper4/Warmind1
1Ftr +1 |Abberation Blood (flexible arms, grapple +2), Combat Reflexes
2Ftr +2 |Combat Expertise
3Ftr +3 |Inhuman Reach
4Ftr +4 |Improved Trip
5Sha +4 |Morphic Immunities, Morphic Weapons
6Sha +5 |Morphic Body (+4 str, +4 con), EWP: Spiked Chain
7Sha +6 |Morphic Reach
8Sha +7 |Morphic Healing
9War +8 |Wild Talent, Chain of Superiority +2

Reach weapons double your natural reach (so says the PH page 112). You Psionic Expansion for a natural 10' of reach. Inhuman Reach (+5ft reach) and Morphic Reach (+5ft reach) together give you a natural reach of 20 feet for a grand total of a fourty foot radius of threatened area. With a spiked chain. Trips to ensue. Enlarged, massive strength trips.

You got my mind working and I had to build. Here are the results. Thanks for the inspiration. :P
Lilt
08-30-05, 05:30 AM There are a number of builds which are at their pinnacle of power at level 12, as level 7 of some PrCs is somehow an unspoken breakpoint for powerful abilities.

Let's see:
Druid 5/MoMF 7
Wildshape Ranger (UA) 5/MoMF 7
War troll form with Extraordinary Abilities, incl. regeneration. Giant Squid cheese. Even Dire Bear, a form I think most would consider a standard 12hd option, is powerful.

Druid 4/Wizard 2/Mndbender 1/AH 5
5th level Divine, 4th level arcane, with a companion familiar, 9HD wildshape forms. Nothing spectacular bit it's a solid all-rounder.

I also agree with Ranix's suggestion above.

Ranger 2/Swashbuckler 3/Chameleon 7
Rogue 3/Ranger 2/Chameleon 7
Any Prefix 5/Chameleon 7
Double aptitude focus for 5th level arcane & divine spells and +4 to 2 attributes, plus the abilities of your prefix

Neraph (or other +0 LA outsider) Fighter 2/Wizard 4/Spellsword 1/EK 5 (most gishes will do)
9th level casting for 5th level spells. Practiced spellcaster lets you polymorph (or draconic polymorph) into nasty 12HD outsider forms like Astral Deva and Kelvezu.

Note that I give some powerful strategies above, but you don't need to turn-on the cheese as deusxmachina discussed. The MoMF could just turn into a dire bear, which is very powerful in itself, but not to the point that someone would start shouting cheese (any Druid could turn into one).
feintmaster
08-30-05, 08:23 AM Sun school , to me, isn't very good, is there something I'm missing? The Inexorable Progress of Dawn, what the f*** is the point of that? I don't know, but it seems to me you just move the opponent, and then move with him, no AoO's either? What does that do, I was confused to read about so many people using it.

Also with only one level of monk you have no abudant step so flash of sunset's out, which blows my mind, because I thought that that was the best use of the Sun School feat. So stun, stun, confuse is the reason everyone uses it? I don't see how that is worth it. Could someone clear this up for me?
PhaedrusXY
08-30-05, 10:58 AM Sun school , to me, isn't very good, is there something I'm missing? The Inexorable Progress of Dawn, what the f*** is the point of that? I don't know, but it seems to me you just move the opponent, and then move with him, no AoO's either? What does that do, I was confused to read about so many people using it.

Also with only one level of monk you have no abudant step so flash of sunset's out, which blows my mind, because I thought that that was the best use of the Sun School feat. So stun, stun, confuse is the reason everyone uses it? I don't see how that is worth it. Could someone clear this up for me?You can use Sun School with other Dimension Door based abilities, like Dimensional Slide and the psionic version of Dimension Door, not just Abundant Step. You can Dimension Door a LOT farther than you can run in a round, even if you're a 20th level monk. You can ready an action to Dimension Door next to a spellcaster if they begin to cast a spell, and then hit them and disrupt their spell when you get there. And you can do it from long range. So if your manifester level is as high as their caster level, there is no way they can just Dimension Door out of reach and nuke you from orbit.
deusxmachina
09-01-05, 01:22 AM Reach weapons double your natural reach (so says the PH page 112).

My reach build is for Mark of Heroes, and I don't think most things are allowed. But, since we're here, I'll ask a basic question: A guy has morphic reach from Warshaper, which adds 5'. If he uses a reach weapon, does that double the threat range? I think morphic reach only adds 5' no mater what size you are or what weapon you use, but now I'm wondering. If a guy with morphic reach uses a reach weapon, that'd then be a 20' threat range. And then you enlarge him and get 40'? I think my DM would have a heart attack if that's true. I was thinking it's normal rules plus then morphic adds 5' on top of it for a max of 25' enlarged with reach.
Slack & Hash
09-01-05, 02:41 AM It's been said by several posters already, but when I think of level 12 I think of War Trolls (druid5/MoMF7). I don't think there is anything more powerful at level 12 then Dazing Blow. I would actually not even recommend it, because I don't think the typical campaigns could handle it... but there it is.
Kurama Youko
09-01-05, 08:40 AM Strongest of the Strong

Any race (Preferably Str bonus ones.)

Level Class Levels BAB Fort Ref Will Avg HP Abilities Gained & Recommend Feats.
1 Bar1 1 2 0 0 12 Rage 1/day, Fast Movement, Illiteracy, Feat (Tireless PGtF)
2 Ran1 2 4 2 0 16 1st Favored Enemy, Wild Empathy, Track
3 Bar2 3 5 2 0 22 Uncanny Dodge, Feat (Toughness)
4 Ran2 4 6 3 0 26 Combat Mastery, Ability Increase
5 Ftr1 5 8 3 0 31 Bonus Feat (Power Attack)
6 Ftr2 6 9 3 0 36 Bonus Feat (Cleave), Feat (Self Sufficent)
7 Ran3 7 9 3 1 40 Endurance
8 Bar3 8 9 4 2 46 Trap Sense +1, Ability Increase
9 Prm1 9 11 4 2 51 Primeval Form 1/day, Animal Empathy, Feat (Extra Rage)
10 Prm2 10 12 4 2 56 Regression 1, Low-Light Vision
11 Prm3 11 12 5 3 61 Feral Power
12 Prm4 12 13 5 3 66 Primeval Form 2/day, Feat (Improved Natural Weapon (Claw), Ability Increase

Best if your chosen Spirit Animal or Primeval Form is the Dire Lion, We are talking at 12th adding +16 Str, +6 Dex, +8 Con, and having a Natural Armor of +6. Your base stats not including Int and Cha increase by +1 while Int and Cha go down by -1, this only gets better as you continue to go through the lvs. :)
matbot
09-01-05, 11:46 AM Alright we saw the incredible power that a twelfth level character can have in the other thread. But an impossible to beat charcter is not fun to play, let alone fight (DM's aren't the enemy). I'm talking about the type of character that can still do a lot of damage, but still be roleplayable. But for gameplay, what do you guys think that the best 12th level character would be?

Try to answer without using "broken" characters, and the like, simply optimized.

He's obviously describing Artificer 12 :P
Amphetryon
09-01-05, 08:27 PM I agree with ranix's point about the 'ideal' being subject to the current whim of the builder. Right now, I'd be tempted to make a Half-elf Ranger 2 (sub level)/Rogue 3/Outcast Champion 2/Scar Enforcer 5 [OC and SE are RoDestiny]. Mmmm, all sorts of CHA to hit & damage cheese.
dirkformica
09-01-05, 09:24 PM Here's an interesting level 12 Cleric build I've been obsessing over lately (Preface Notes: I have no access to Libris Mortis so no Nightsticks cheese for me, I have to do it the old fashioned way, and we do NOT use the erratas regarding Divine Favor, Righteous Might, etc... Although even with the minor adjustments from the errata, this will still be a pretty decent build):

Cloistered Cleric (Unearthed Arcana) 3/ Church Inquisitor (Complete Divine) 4/Divine Disciple (Player's Guide to Faerun) 5
BaB=7, HD=3d6+4d8+5d8, Fort 8, Ref 3, Will 11
Divine Caster Level=12, 3 Domains (one must be Spell) + Knowledge & Inquisition, Lore 3, Detect Evil at will, Immune to Charms, Pierce Illusions, Pierce Disguise, Divine Emissary, Sacred Defense +2, Imbue with Spell Ability, Transcendence (Outsider form with possible alignment subtype,) Skills= 68+15xInt, +3 to stat from levels, if Human +6 feats

Probable Feats: 1Extra Turning, 2Extend Spell, 3Persist Spell (PGtF or Complete Arcane,) 4Divine Metamagic Persist Spell (CD,) 5Extra Turning, 6 Either Power Attack or Quicken Spell (Probably Quicken spell for possible future DMQuicken)

This character will be depending upon buffs, so he'll definitely need to sink some of his money on a couple of Rings of Counterspelling to protect against the Dispel Magic series. He'll also need at least a 12 Charisma (since he can use Eagle's Splendor in the morning to gain a couple extra turn attempts to fuel the second DMPersist.)
(Tactics are spoiler blocked because it's a little long and messy)
Morning Buff Steps: 1.) DMPersist= Draconic Polymorph (Draconomicon) Kelvezu (Monster Manual II) gained through the 6th level Spell Domain spell Greater Anyspell = Str 21(29 Draconic) Dex 31 Con 16(18Draconic) +15 Natural Armor, 60 fly (good,) poison, +8d6 melee sneak attack
2.) If necessary cast Eagle's Splendor for an additional +2 Turn attempts.
3.) DMPersist #2= Divine Power for BAB= Character Level, +6 str (35), +CL in hps
4.) Magical Vestment x2 on armor and buckler (unless going for Monk's belt and then ignore the buckler)= +6 enhancement to AR
5.) Greater Magic Weapon on a club or quarterstaff = +3 enhancement to hit/damage
6.) Spikes (Complete Divine) = x2 threat range and +10 damage

Stats for the day= Str 35, Dex 31, Con 18 and BaB 12. Fort 12, Ref 13, Will 16 (assuming 20 Wis,) AR = 42 or 43 (see below)

During the 1st round of combat, "waste" it casting Righteous Might for large size, +8 str (43,) +4 con (22,) +4 Natural AR (+19,) Damage reduction 5/evil, -1 to attack (large size,) -1 AC (large size,) and increase in base weapon damage (1d6 club goes to 1d8) and if Quicken is available, cast Quickened Divine Favor to add +4 luck to hit/dam.)
totals at 12th level starting in 2nd round of combat = Str 43, Dex 31, Con 22
BaB +12 (from DP), +16 str +3 enhance -1 (size) -1 (buckler)= +29 to hit (+33 with DF);
+16 str +3 enhance +10 spikes = +29 dam (+33 with DF);
AR in Mithral Chain Shirt with Buckler = 10 (base) +4 (mithral shirt) +6 (mod dex) +3 (enhance) +1 (buckler) +3 (enhance) +19 (nat armor) -1 (size) = 45
or AR in normal clothes, no buckler and a Monk's Belt with Wis 20= 10 base +3 enhance +5 Wis +10 dex +19 (nat armor) - 1size = 46

You have no turn attempts left for the day, and you've cast your 6th level domain spell, a fifth level spell, 3 fourth level spells, 2 or 3 third level spells, a second level spell, and possibly another 5th level spell for Quickened Divine Favor. However, you are quite the combat brute, even without the feats a fighter would get, and you still have some casting ability left in you. Be sure to get a flanking buddy to get more out of those +8d6 sneak attacks you now get with melee weapons. Also, that 45 or 46 AC is going to make it hard even for the mighty War Troll to actually hit you.

As crazy as that character is, however, the fear of dispelling might make me go for a more dependable build like Druid 12, or if I wanted to be a little creative an Arcane Hierophant build (Druid 4/ Wiz 2/ Mindbender 1 (Complete Arcane)/AH 5) or the aforementioned War Trollish Ranger 5 (Unearthed Arcana Wildshaping variant)/ Master of Many Forms 7.

(edited to add that I can't believe I didn't think to use Anyspell as the 3rd level Domain spell to gain Wraithstrike from CAdv and persist that for 24 hours of all melee touch attacks. You wouldn't even need Divine Power at that point. In my defense I've only recently acquired Complete Arcane and Adventurer so I haven't been able to pore over it like some of the older books.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
feintmaster 08-30-05, 12:51 AM	Alright we saw the incredible power that a twelfth level character can have in the other thread. But an impossible to beat charcter is not fun to play, let alone fight (DM's aren't the enemy). I'm talking about the type of character that can still do a lot of damage, but still be roleplayable. But for gameplay, what do you guys think that the best 12th level character would be? Try to answer without using "broken" characters, and the like, simply optimized.
Ranix 08-30-05, 01:02 AM	The most well-rounded, possibly most fun level 12 character is.... here it comes... ready..? Druid 12 Seriously though, optimizers go around and around and like to play whatever the latest character they've come up with is. Right now I'm building lots of gish and bards, but Joe Schmoe might be looking at a Persistant Spell wizard, or maybe a swashbuckling Champion of Corellon. Jack Sprat wants to do a Supermount Dragonrider. Just go with whatever build excites you the most at the time.
PhaedrusXY 08-30-05, 01:08 AM	I agree with Ranix 100%. Having said that, if I were joining a game at level 12 in the near future, I'd play this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6941472), if it were allowed. There are alot more powerful builds I know, but I think it would be alot of fun and useful. The Eberron feat Whirling Steel Strike would be great to go with it, also. Or even better, the one that lets you flurry with a longspear.
Ranix 08-30-05, 01:31 AM	imho, your build would be better with Psychic Warrior cut out of it. Get a PP reserve another way and go for higher hit dice and save a bab, no? Edit: Wait, what? Monk? OK, well, whatever. You're obviously not going for the superpower award with this one, but it's a good build and it definitely inspired me. I never thought the Warmind or the Elocator were good for anything.
PhaedrusXY 08-30-05, 01:37 AM	imho, your build would be better with Psychic Warrior cut out of it. Get a PP reserve another way and go for higher hit dice and save a bab, no? Edit: Wait, what? Monk? OK, well, whatever. You're obviously not going for the superpower award with this one, but it's a good build and it definitely inspired me. I never thought the Warmind or the Elocator were good for anything.Hmm... a lenient DM would probably let the Exotic Weapon Master's flurry ability qualify you for the Sun School feat. That's the reason the monk level is in there. I might work up a version using that and maybe without the psywarrior levels, too. It would be alot better at dishing out damage, for sure.
El_Machinae 08-30-05, 02:12 AM	By 12th level, a lot of builds have gone through the pain of developing, and are starting to climb. Druid 7/Wiz 3 is painful, but Druid 7/Wiz 3/ Heirophant 2 is just starting to get fun. However, 12th level is still missing the great 'zowies' some characters have. The Hammer of Moradin doesn't have the 'line o' death' power yet (sigh), the Frenzied Berserker is still waffling over putting points into Power Attack. For 12th level, I'm trying to think of a good Stalker of Kharesh/ Frenzied Berzerker idea. I think that would be good fun. Better yet, seeing if an honest-to-goodness Dwarven Trollslayer is still viable at that level would be fun.
deusxmachina 08-30-05, 03:01 AM	Ranix has it. If you're a druid, you can basically do whatever you feel like. Cast spells, do some Spirited Charging on a mount, wildshape into something that flies, or something that is a big melee machine, whatever. Whatever you feel like doing that day, you can pretty much do. You'll never out-do a Barbarian at pure melee damage output, but you don't do so bad, either. That fun is also a curse. One of my characters is a druid, and often the question isn't how will I kill the evil guy, it's how should I kill the evil guy. I make it well-known to the group that I hold back on the cheese on purpose but will bring it out if I have to. Some of the stuff you can do with even a by-the-books druid is pretty ridiculous. One time the party was getting creamed by a monster that shouldn't have been there at that level, so I turned on the cheese and wildshaped into an octopus that then held its breath on land and promptly killed the threat with its EIGHT Improved Grab attacks. There is nothing more versatile than a druid. Problem is, sometimes you don't want that. For another campaign, I'm currently working on a fighter build with a main goal of a huge threat range. He stands in one spot and whacks people, and that's all he does. Just stands there and AoO people at 25'. It's fun, but in a different way. It's not always fun having to think about what is the best way to kill a guy. If I used a whip, he could whack people at 35'. Neato. Anyway, there's plenty of fun characters to play. I surprisingly have a good time playing my 6 Charisma cleric in Living Greyhawk. He's pretty lousy at melee, he's not much of a talker, but he's a wall who stands there with his high AC and laughs when people try to hit him. Role-playing a 6 Charisma can be pretty fun, too.
Ranix 08-30-05, 05:24 AM	If I used a whip, he could whack people at 35'. Neato. Try this: Changeling Fighter4/Warshaper4/Warmind1 1Ftr +1 \|Abberation Blood (flexible arms, grapple +2), Combat Reflexes 2Ftr +2 \|Combat Expertise 3Ftr +3 \|Inhuman Reach 4Ftr +4 \|Improved Trip 5Sha +4 \|Morphic Immunities, Morphic Weapons 6Sha +5 \|Morphic Body (+4 str, +4 con), EWP: Spiked Chain 7Sha +6 \|Morphic Reach 8Sha +7 \|Morphic Healing 9War +8 \|Wild Talent, Chain of Superiority +2 Reach weapons double your natural reach (so says the PH page 112). You Psionic Expansion for a natural 10' of reach. Inhuman Reach (+5ft reach) and Morphic Reach (+5ft reach) together give you a natural reach of 20 feet for a grand total of a fourty foot radius of threatened area. With a spiked chain. Trips to ensue. Enlarged, massive strength trips. You got my mind working and I had to build. Here are the results. Thanks for the inspiration. :P
Lilt 08-30-05, 05:30 AM	There are a number of builds which are at their pinnacle of power at level 12, as level 7 of some PrCs is somehow an unspoken breakpoint for powerful abilities. Let's see: Druid 5/MoMF 7 Wildshape Ranger (UA) 5/MoMF 7 War troll form with Extraordinary Abilities, incl. regeneration. Giant Squid cheese. Even Dire Bear, a form I think most would consider a standard 12hd option, is powerful. Druid 4/Wizard 2/Mndbender 1/AH 5 5th level Divine, 4th level arcane, with a companion familiar, 9HD wildshape forms. Nothing spectacular bit it's a solid all-rounder. I also agree with Ranix's suggestion above. Ranger 2/Swashbuckler 3/Chameleon 7 Rogue 3/Ranger 2/Chameleon 7 Any Prefix 5/Chameleon 7 Double aptitude focus for 5th level arcane & divine spells and +4 to 2 attributes, plus the abilities of your prefix Neraph (or other +0 LA outsider) Fighter 2/Wizard 4/Spellsword 1/EK 5 (most gishes will do) 9th level casting for 5th level spells. Practiced spellcaster lets you polymorph (or draconic polymorph) into nasty 12HD outsider forms like Astral Deva and Kelvezu. Note that I give some powerful strategies above, but you don't need to turn-on the cheese as deusxmachina discussed. The MoMF could just turn into a dire bear, which is very powerful in itself, but not to the point that someone would start shouting cheese (any Druid could turn into one).
feintmaster 08-30-05, 08:23 AM	Sun school , to me, isn't very good, is there something I'm missing? The Inexorable Progress of Dawn, what the f*** is the point of that? I don't know, but it seems to me you just move the opponent, and then move with him, no AoO's either? What does that do, I was confused to read about so many people using it. Also with only one level of monk you have no abudant step so flash of sunset's out, which blows my mind, because I thought that that was the best use of the Sun School feat. So stun, stun, confuse is the reason everyone uses it? I don't see how that is worth it. Could someone clear this up for me?
PhaedrusXY 08-30-05, 10:58 AM	Sun school , to me, isn't very good, is there something I'm missing? The Inexorable Progress of Dawn, what the f*** is the point of that? I don't know, but it seems to me you just move the opponent, and then move with him, no AoO's either? What does that do, I was confused to read about so many people using it. Also with only one level of monk you have no abudant step so flash of sunset's out, which blows my mind, because I thought that that was the best use of the Sun School feat. So stun, stun, confuse is the reason everyone uses it? I don't see how that is worth it. Could someone clear this up for me?You can use Sun School with other Dimension Door based abilities, like Dimensional Slide and the psionic version of Dimension Door, not just Abundant Step. You can Dimension Door a LOT farther than you can run in a round, even if you're a 20th level monk. You can ready an action to Dimension Door next to a spellcaster if they begin to cast a spell, and then hit them and disrupt their spell when you get there. And you can do it from long range. So if your manifester level is as high as their caster level, there is no way they can just Dimension Door out of reach and nuke you from orbit.
deusxmachina 09-01-05, 01:22 AM	Reach weapons double your natural reach (so says the PH page 112). My reach build is for Mark of Heroes, and I don't think most things are allowed. But, since we're here, I'll ask a basic question: A guy has morphic reach from Warshaper, which adds 5'. If he uses a reach weapon, does that double the threat range? I think morphic reach only adds 5' no mater what size you are or what weapon you use, but now I'm wondering. If a guy with morphic reach uses a reach weapon, that'd then be a 20' threat range. And then you enlarge him and get 40'? I think my DM would have a heart attack if that's true. I was thinking it's normal rules plus then morphic adds 5' on top of it for a max of 25' enlarged with reach.
Slack & Hash 09-01-05, 02:41 AM	It's been said by several posters already, but when I think of level 12 I think of War Trolls (druid5/MoMF7). I don't think there is anything more powerful at level 12 then Dazing Blow. I would actually not even recommend it, because I don't think the typical campaigns could handle it... but there it is.
Kurama Youko 09-01-05, 08:40 AM	Strongest of the Strong Any race (Preferably Str bonus ones.) Level Class Levels BAB Fort Ref Will Avg HP Abilities Gained & Recommend Feats. 1 Bar1 1 2 0 0 12 Rage 1/day, Fast Movement, Illiteracy, Feat (Tireless PGtF) 2 Ran1 2 4 2 0 16 1st Favored Enemy, Wild Empathy, Track 3 Bar2 3 5 2 0 22 Uncanny Dodge, Feat (Toughness) 4 Ran2 4 6 3 0 26 Combat Mastery, Ability Increase 5 Ftr1 5 8 3 0 31 Bonus Feat (Power Attack) 6 Ftr2 6 9 3 0 36 Bonus Feat (Cleave), Feat (Self Sufficent) 7 Ran3 7 9 3 1 40 Endurance 8 Bar3 8 9 4 2 46 Trap Sense +1, Ability Increase 9 Prm1 9 11 4 2 51 Primeval Form 1/day, Animal Empathy, Feat (Extra Rage) 10 Prm2 10 12 4 2 56 Regression 1, Low-Light Vision 11 Prm3 11 12 5 3 61 Feral Power 12 Prm4 12 13 5 3 66 Primeval Form 2/day, Feat (Improved Natural Weapon (Claw), Ability Increase Best if your chosen Spirit Animal or Primeval Form is the Dire Lion, We are talking at 12th adding +16 Str, +6 Dex, +8 Con, and having a Natural Armor of +6. Your base stats not including Int and Cha increase by +1 while Int and Cha go down by -1, this only gets better as you continue to go through the lvs. :)
matbot 09-01-05, 11:46 AM	Alright we saw the incredible power that a twelfth level character can have in the other thread. But an impossible to beat charcter is not fun to play, let alone fight (DM's aren't the enemy). I'm talking about the type of character that can still do a lot of damage, but still be roleplayable. But for gameplay, what do you guys think that the best 12th level character would be? Try to answer without using "broken" characters, and the like, simply optimized. He's obviously describing Artificer 12 :P
Amphetryon 09-01-05, 08:27 PM	I agree with ranix's point about the 'ideal' being subject to the current whim of the builder. Right now, I'd be tempted to make a Half-elf Ranger 2 (sub level)/Rogue 3/Outcast Champion 2/Scar Enforcer 5 [OC and SE are RoDestiny]. Mmmm, all sorts of CHA to hit & damage cheese.
dirkformica 09-01-05, 09:24 PM	Here's an interesting level 12 Cleric build I've been obsessing over lately (Preface Notes: I have no access to Libris Mortis so no Nightsticks cheese for me, I have to do it the old fashioned way, and we do NOT use the erratas regarding Divine Favor, Righteous Might, etc... Although even with the minor adjustments from the errata, this will still be a pretty decent build): Cloistered Cleric (Unearthed Arcana) 3/ Church Inquisitor (Complete Divine) 4/Divine Disciple (Player's Guide to Faerun) 5 BaB=7, HD=3d6+4d8+5d8, Fort 8, Ref 3, Will 11 Divine Caster Level=12, 3 Domains (one must be Spell) + Knowledge & Inquisition, Lore 3, Detect Evil at will, Immune to Charms, Pierce Illusions, Pierce Disguise, Divine Emissary, Sacred Defense +2, Imbue with Spell Ability, Transcendence (Outsider form with possible alignment subtype,) Skills= 68+15xInt, +3 to stat from levels, if Human +6 feats Probable Feats: 1Extra Turning, 2Extend Spell, 3Persist Spell (PGtF or Complete Arcane,) 4Divine Metamagic Persist Spell (CD,) 5Extra Turning, 6 Either Power Attack or Quicken Spell (Probably Quicken spell for possible future DMQuicken) This character will be depending upon buffs, so he'll definitely need to sink some of his money on a couple of Rings of Counterspelling to protect against the Dispel Magic series. He'll also need at least a 12 Charisma (since he can use Eagle's Splendor in the morning to gain a couple extra turn attempts to fuel the second DMPersist.) (Tactics are spoiler blocked because it's a little long and messy) Morning Buff Steps: 1.) DMPersist= Draconic Polymorph (Draconomicon) Kelvezu (Monster Manual II) gained through the 6th level Spell Domain spell Greater Anyspell = Str 21(29 Draconic) Dex 31 Con 16(18Draconic) +15 Natural Armor, 60 fly (good,) poison, +8d6 melee sneak attack 2.) If necessary cast Eagle's Splendor for an additional +2 Turn attempts. 3.) DMPersist #2= Divine Power for BAB= Character Level, +6 str (35), +CL in hps 4.) Magical Vestment x2 on armor and buckler (unless going for Monk's belt and then ignore the buckler)= +6 enhancement to AR 5.) Greater Magic Weapon on a club or quarterstaff = +3 enhancement to hit/damage 6.) Spikes (Complete Divine) = x2 threat range and +10 damage Stats for the day= Str 35, Dex 31, Con 18 and BaB 12. Fort 12, Ref 13, Will 16 (assuming 20 Wis,) AR = 42 or 43 (see below) During the 1st round of combat, "waste" it casting Righteous Might for large size, +8 str (43,) +4 con (22,) +4 Natural AR (+19,) Damage reduction 5/evil, -1 to attack (large size,) -1 AC (large size,) and increase in base weapon damage (1d6 club goes to 1d8) and if Quicken is available, cast Quickened Divine Favor to add +4 luck to hit/dam.) totals at 12th level starting in 2nd round of combat = Str 43, Dex 31, Con 22 BaB +12 (from DP), +16 str +3 enhance -1 (size) -1 (buckler)= +29 to hit (+33 with DF); +16 str +3 enhance +10 spikes = +29 dam (+33 with DF); AR in Mithral Chain Shirt with Buckler = 10 (base) +4 (mithral shirt) +6 (mod dex) +3 (enhance) +1 (buckler) +3 (enhance) +19 (nat armor) -1 (size) = 45 or AR in normal clothes, no buckler and a Monk's Belt with Wis 20= 10 base +3 enhance +5 Wis +10 dex +19 (nat armor) - 1size = 46 You have no turn attempts left for the day, and you've cast your 6th level domain spell, a fifth level spell, 3 fourth level spells, 2 or 3 third level spells, a second level spell, and possibly another 5th level spell for Quickened Divine Favor. However, you are quite the combat brute, even without the feats a fighter would get, and you still have some casting ability left in you. Be sure to get a flanking buddy to get more out of those +8d6 sneak attacks you now get with melee weapons. Also, that 45 or 46 AC is going to make it hard even for the mighty War Troll to actually hit you. As crazy as that character is, however, the fear of dispelling might make me go for a more dependable build like Druid 12, or if I wanted to be a little creative an Arcane Hierophant build (Druid 4/ Wiz 2/ Mindbender 1 (Complete Arcane)/AH 5) or the aforementioned War Trollish Ranger 5 (Unearthed Arcana Wildshaping variant)/ Master of Many Forms 7. (edited to add that I can't believe I didn't think to use Anyspell as the 3rd level Domain spell to gain Wraithstrike from CAdv and persist that for 24 hours of all melee touch attacks. You wouldn't even need Divine Power at that point. In my defense I've only recently acquired Complete Arcane and Adventurer so I haven't been able to pore over it like some of the older books.)