Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SolInvictus 01-07-06, 09:17 AM	Any suggestions? It needs to have concentration as a class skill, and that's about it. Warlock 5 seems appealing, since the incantations work well with the all day long flavor of the build. Alternatively, wilder 2/hexblade 3 gives me cha to AC and saves, along with mettle.
SoulGamit 01-07-06, 09:40 AM	Oh, I actually know this one! Marshel 3 / Human Paragon 1 / Cleric 1 / Master of the Unseen Hand 5 / Lurking Terror 3 / Human Paragon 2 Really, human paragon isn't need and can be replaced with whatever you feel like if UA isn't allowed. The trick is to use mashel's damage aura + divine might + a small (or larger) intelligent weapon You'll get cha to damage 3.5 times as long as the weapon is flanking. On thrust, you can still use divine might to add cha to damage, which can add up to a lot of damage Make sure you choose malevolance and that gaze attack in addition to your telekinesis SU ability. If the above build doesn't work, then you now know to list the allowed sources. Paladin 4 / Whatever 1 is a great lead in, but then you must be a paladin. Otherwise, Cleric 2 / Hexblade 3 is a nice lead-in, it grants you cha to saves and mettle. Rogue 3 / Cleric 2 is another possibility. Basically, you really want turn attempts for divine might.
SolInvictus 01-07-06, 10:25 AM	Would divine might work with telekinetic wielder? It does say you can't use it in conjunction with weapon-specific feats. On a similiar subject, are there any ways of boosting the CL of telekinesis? Is it possible to beat the 17 CL from ghost and improved TK?
SoulGamit 01-07-06, 10:46 AM	Wow, your right, it does only work with weapons... I coulda sworn it was attacks. All well, Marshel is still the way to go since it does work. Marshel 3 / Hexblade 2 might be a good idea, for cha to saves. Technically, divine might does work on the thrust ability, since it doesn't suffer from that limitation, so it's still a good investment. The best weapon to use, by far, is the greatsword. It normally weighs only 6 lb, increase it's size catagory 3 times and that brings you to 24lb and it'll do 6d6 damage. If you make it out of mythril, then you could make it 2 size catagories larger then that and it'll do 12d6 damage. On a similiar subject, are there any ways of boosting the CL of telekinesis? Is it possible to beat the 17 CL from ghost and improved TK? The final CL of telekinesis is based on a ghost's HD or 12, whichever is higher. So, with all the levels of MotUH you'll end up with a caster level equal to 20 at level 20.
diphycue 01-07-06, 12:58 PM	It's NOT sorcerer...that's what I did, Sorcerer 5/MotUH 5... I was made the party scout...and found that MotUH isn't that good anyway, any monster that you need that much damage on is almost always too big for you to TK.
SoulGamit 01-07-06, 01:20 PM	Question: Why the heck were you trying to TK a monster? You use TK on weapons which are then thrust into the monster. The only exception is the last ability of the MotUH, which owns on things you can actually throw into the sky... assuming you use a move action to place all of your swords above him so that he's cut by them (technically twice).
diphycue 01-07-06, 01:29 PM	because you don't gain any damage by TK with a spear or something...you do gain damage by launching the foe skyward. Especially if there's a ceiling 100 ft up.
SoulGamit 01-07-06, 01:52 PM	I think you need to re-read the telekinetic thrust aspect of the spell, not the fling skyward ability from MotUH. That's a very situational ability.
diphycue 01-07-06, 02:02 PM	You mean the ability to launch up to 15 different items? You still have to do an attack roll for EACH item... chances are you'll hit with most, so anywhere from 15 pts to 15d6... That's not that much better.
Steelborn86 01-07-06, 02:52 PM	Doesn't a MotUH add his Int or his Cha to damage rolls when using violent thrust with weapons. He can also hurl larger weapons as long as he doesn't hurl more than his weight limit on telekinesis. So in that case lets say a MotUH has a Cha modifier of +7 and attacks something with 15 large greatswords (16 lbs each dealing 3d6 damage each) This would mean the MotUH deals 45d6+105 (unless Int/Cha is only applied once then it would only be 45d6+7) damage per round. I think those numbers are right and I understand it correctly. To the thread starter, I would suggest human paragon/3, fighter/2 for that Cha boost and some extra feats you could use for improved bullrush/improved trip/improved diarm/etc.. If UA isn't allowed then try Hexblade/3, Fighter/2 or Monk/3, Paladin/2.
SoulGamit 01-07-06, 03:51 PM	Assuming a starting cha of 18 (your highest stat should be in cha for this build) a +4 item and +2 from levels, throwing the best weapons possible (Collossal++ Mythril Greatswords) and using divine might (which adds cha to damage for thrust, not the telekinetic wielder) your looking at a damage of 27d6+7 per greatsword thrown, and you can throw 15... that's far from useless. Even if you can't get mythril, Gargantuan greatswords will do 6d6+7 per greatsword. The only real trouble is being in an area large enough to levitate 15 collossal++ greatswords.
diphycue 01-07-06, 05:04 PM	where do you find colossal ++ for weaponry? Also, how much would a greatsword that big weigh? If a medium greatsword is 6' long, a large is 12', huge 24', gargantuan 48', colossal 96', c+ 192', and c++ 384'... that's hundreds of tons of metal, even mithral...
Part-Human2 01-07-06, 07:03 PM	Spellthief (Cadv) maybe or Dread Necromancer (HoH) since it's undead. Both are Cha-based Arcane casters.
Aufenshauft 01-09-06, 01:21 PM	You need survivability to offset the loss of HP/etc with the +5 ECL. Don't let the incorporeality fool you- you will be consistantly one percentile away from death more often than you would ever like to be. That really leaves you with Barbarian and Monk. I would vote for Monk, myself. Best saves, and some good defenses (evasion still works) would be best used in your situation. Then the Marshal for the charisma buff. I could see Paladin too.
diphycue 01-09-06, 01:55 PM	I don't know about that...when I played a ghost I was never anywhere close to dead...I think I got hurt once. Total immunity to anything non-magical and 50% to not be affected by anything that is is a pretty big boost...Just play smart, duck inside walls or the floor.
SoulGamit 01-09-06, 02:06 PM	where do you find colossal ++ for weaponry? Also, how much would a greatsword that big weigh? If a medium greatsword is 6' long, a large is 12', huge 24', gargantuan 48', colossal 96', c+ 192', and c++ 384'... that's hundreds of tons of metal, even mithral... I think hundreds of tons of metal is a slight exageration. Also, a doubling + a doubling = a tripling in DnD, so medium greatswords weigh 6lb, large greatswords weigh 12, huge weigh 18, gargantuan weigh 24. Collossal++ greatswords would weigh 48lb, mythril would put that back down to 24. I still stand by marshel 3 / Cleric 1 / Human Paragon 1 (or cleric 1 if UA isn't allowed) Marshel gives you extra damage when full attacking and cleric gives you extra damage while thrusting. BAB doesn't matter, nor does the hit die since all undead have d12 hitdice no matter what. Also, ask your DM if you could have somehow been made by someone with the corpsecrafter feat <.< That'd solve a lot of the problems there are with being undead.
diphycue 01-09-06, 02:16 PM	Doubling a doubling being a tripling only works for game effects, not volume and weight. For example, when someone is enlarged their height is doubled but their weight is times eight...At the minimum doubling a weapon's length and width should be times four, though times eight would be more realistic. 6x8x8x8x8x8x8=1,572,864 lbs...or, for the not nearly as physically real 6x4x4x4x4x4x4=98,304 lbs. Half of that for mithral, so, yeah, dozens of tons of metal. For a 384' long greatsword, 49,152 lbs is waaaay light.
SoulGamit 01-09-06, 02:51 PM	The enlarge person spell doesn't really apply to weapons... especially since, unlike person, a greatsword would only increase mostly in two dimentions (length and width) not three, in every direction. I know that the thickness would increase slightly as the sword is made bigger, but it wouldn't be that much. And where the heck are you getting that length doubles every size catagory? No were is that stated. Sure the size would incease, but at the absolute maximum it would be about 40ft long, since that's how big a collossal++ creature is if memory serves. That'd be porportionally correct. By your measurements, the sword would be about 10x the size of the wielder.
diphycue 01-09-06, 05:25 PM	size increases double... from the MM table 7-1... Fine is <6", Dim 6"-1', Tiny 1'-2', Small 2'-4', Medium 4'-8', Large 8'-16', Huge 16'-32', Gargantuan 32'-64', Colossal >64'... going with that progression Colossal+ would be over 128', Colossal++ is 256'-512'...A greatsword is as long as a man is tall, about 6'... A Colossal++ Mithral Greatsword that only got longer and wider NOT thicker would weigh approximately fifty thousand pounds, or 25 tons, and be 384' long.