Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Maleous 06-16-04, 09:45 PM	I've always wanted to play a dragon disciple but the necessary dip into sorceror always seemed utterly useless as you would lose bab and any spells chosen (apart from truestrike) would be fighting against arcane spell failure chance from wearing armour. The question is what's the best five level prefix to Dragon Disciple with a 28 point buy system. So far I've decided on the bardbarian. Human: Str 16, Dex 14, con 14, int 8, wis 8, Cha 14 Barbarian1: Power attack Cleave. Bard1: Bard2: Weapon Focus Greatsword Bard3: Bard4: DD1: Practised Spellcaster Bard spells known: 1st CLW, Expedious Retreat, +one more 2nd CMW + one more As the DD goes up in levels he will get more and more CMW eventually at +8 thanks to practised spellcaster. He will also have bardic song four times a day and 40ft. move. And no arcane spell failure chance in mithral breastplate or adamantite chain shirt. One change could be to take Bard first. Sacrificing hp for sp. Due to good movement, adding spiked chain and combat reflexes might be better than Power attack and cleave. The biggest problem is not enough strength or BAB when stacked up against a normal fighter, unfortunately Cha 14 is necessary to get the 2nd level bard spells. So what does everyone think. How does it stack up to the figh4/sorc1 prefix?
Himosan 06-16-04, 10:21 PM	I think the best prefix is Brb 2/Ftr 2/Crc 1 with the Magical Training regional feat (Player's Guide to Faerun).
Snow Savant 06-16-04, 10:34 PM	Ranger1 / Hexblade4 / NentyarHunter4 / Windwalker1 / DragonDisciple10 BAB +16 (4 Attacks ... a rarity in most DD builds) 5th Level NH Divine Spells ... with 7 bonus 5th level spell slots ... and access to Travel & Air Domains! Automatic Feather Fall Lots of Rangerly Tracking type goodies CHA-to-Saves (via Hexblade) FORT & WILL Save Mettle, a Familiar, Hex 1/Day Weapon Focus: Greatsword (pre-req. for WW) forces you to use the Greatsword, which any self-respecting DD should be using anyway... All the DD goodies Note: I'm not a big fan of the DD, but this build is pretty darn nifty due to its great BAB and high level spellcasting capability. Treat it like a Ranger Dragon, and you'll do well with it.
Himosan 06-16-04, 11:29 PM	Nice but that looks like a 10 level prefix when he was specifically asking for 5 :) Hexblade itself (or with 1 level in Ftr or Brb) might work good enough for what he wants tho.
UMiskatonic 06-16-04, 11:43 PM	I'm not sure practiced spellcaster works that way. My reading is that your caster level goes up, which would help against SR, for example, but your spells known doesn't change. The best you can get then, would be to cast 2nd level spells as a high level caster, assuming you take barbarian 1/bard 4. Also, I'm not sure the Dragon Disciple is properly seen as a caster type. Maybe you should think about it as a melee type, which has a spell or two when it's nifty. What about Barbarian 4/Sorceror 1? Straight hexblade is also a really good choice. Cheers, UMiskatonic
Himosan 06-17-04, 12:17 AM	I belive that's how he saw it working, "+8" meaning +8 CL bonus to CMW a 2nd level spell. This class is typically only decent for a tripper tank. I'd also recommend Paragon Half-Orc 3/Ftr 1/Brd 1. Beatings :)
incubus 06-17-04, 12:41 AM	I always liked sorceror 1/monk 4. Choose natural ability enhancers for the sorceror spells and you're set. Unless of course you can get spontaeneous arcane spells without dropping a level. In which case monk all the way is pretty nice.
Nazzareth 06-17-04, 06:20 AM	I think Hexblade or Battle Sorcerer is good starter for Dragon Disciple, they both allow casting in light armour. Hexblade if you want to be a fighter type with high BAB mix it up with fighter, Barbarian, or ranger. Can't be Good Alignment. the Half dragon paragon is a good class for this one once you have maxed out Dragon Disciple. Battle Sorcerer 6, Dragon Disciple 10, Eldritch Knight 4 is an alright build if you want a 50/50 spellcasting combat mix. You the militial feat for this build or drop one Eldritch Knight level for one of fighter, barbarian, ranger or paladin. BAB 15 Caster Level 9.
Sisyfos 06-17-04, 06:44 AM	Snow made a good point. Because of the DD's weird spell progression it generally is not wise to take that class very early in the character's career. If it were taken early then I'd probably just go with barb+bard or paladin+bard or hexblade to get some results. DD's real problem is really that it has medium BAB and its bonuses are related to its form. At medium to high levels polymorph and polymorph-like tactics open a lot of ways for characters to get substantial boosts to their effectiveness by choosing smart forms. DD on the other hand loses most of its PrC related bonuses by polymorphing. Sisyfos
Snow Savant 06-17-04, 09:33 AM	Originally posted by Sisyfos Snow made a good point. Because of the DD's weird spell progression it generally is not wise to take that class very early in the character's career. If it were taken early then I'd probably just go with barb+bard or paladin+bard or hexblade to get some results. DD's real problem is really that it has medium BAB and its bonuses are related to its form. At medium to high levels polymorph and polymorph-like tactics open a lot of ways for characters to get substantial boosts to their effectiveness by choosing smart forms. DD on the other hand loses most of its PrC related bonuses by polymorphing. Sisyfos Correct. At 15th level, every serious optimized combat group should be having the party Wizard cast PAO on the melee and tank characters anyway. So it behooves melee/tank characters to accumulate as many class abilities as they can prior to 15th level ... that work well in synch with becoming a heavy-duty polymorphed behemoth once the Wizard gets that spell.
Himosan 06-17-04, 01:59 PM	No the class isnt very great but that wasnt really the question :) At any rate, having a tank who maintains 40+ Str and Flys (w/Hover and/or Flyby attack) while in an Anti-Magic Field (or after the disjunction hits) is often more desireable then what you get from a week as a Firbolg.
catharz 06-17-04, 02:09 PM	Originally posted by Sisyfos DD on the other hand loses most of its PrC related bonuses by polymorphing. Sisyfos You retain all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels. In the RAW at least, a Polymorphed Dragon disciple acts as a Half-dragon whatever they have become. Which is actually pretty sweet. And given the Snow DD, the question should have been "what 10-level prefix?" Too bad the bonus spells don't slide up the levels. It should probably be a house rule that they do.