Best "You're Shafted" AC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best "You're Shafted" AC [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
warpdragon
11-30-04, 09:10 PM What is the best flat-footed-touch-ac one can obtain?

Ie. if normal is 30, flatfooted is 25, and touch is 20, ff/t is 15 (just using round numbers)

[Sorry I stole your phrase, whoever I got it from]
Bellegante
11-30-04, 10:08 PM I'm sure someone will improve upon it, but - the two important things will be uncanny dodge, and gnome twist cloth.

Gnome twist cloth is armor that adds to your touch AC, and requires an exotic armor proficiency.. I beleive it only gives +1 without enhancement, though.

So enchanted +5 is +6 to your flat footed, touch AC. I am surprised that there's no real term for that in the rules.. I mean, it stands to reason that a touch attack is a great opener if an opponent is flat footed, especially in 3.0 with harm =P
catharz
11-30-04, 10:14 PM Monks get their AC bonus when flat footed.
Zathyr
12-01-04, 03:16 PM So, no dodge, armor, shield, natural armor, or exalted/vile bonuses?

Circumstance? I'm not sure if we'd count that one.

Armor can count against touch ac with gnome twist cloth, but it's easier and possibly cheaper to buff your wisdom past +6 and get the unarmored bonus from monk. Plus with the saint template you get wis to AC as an insight bonus as well.

This has all been done before, but for the record:
Deflection:
-granted by an item
-Unearthly grace (= cha)
-probably some other ways

Insight:
-ioun stone
-saint template
-some spells I think, can't recall

Luck:
-Luck of Heroes feat (+1)
-err, I'm blanking out here

Sacred/profane:
-my mind has turned to mush

Artificers have an infusion that changes the bonus type granted by an item, so you can have anything off the list barring a sacred, profane, or dodge bonus.

and the assorted misc stuff like
Size
Cover
Dex (with uncanny dodge)
Wiz (monk unnarmored bonus)
Int (added to dex with canny defense[duelist and probably other PrC's])
Haste
blah blah blah, etc. etc.

So the answer is: very, very high.
Qaetar
12-01-04, 04:43 PM Well, here's what I've got so far:

Gloura (9), Barbarian 2 (BAB +5)
Sorc 2 (BAB +6)
Arcane Duelist 2 (BAB +7)
Divine Crusader 2 (2nd Level Divine Spells)
Mystic Wanderer 1

At this point you have:

Cha to AC three times: Gloura, Arcane Duelist and Mystic Wanderer.
Dex to AC once.

You retain your Dex to AC due to Barbarian 2.

Saint (2) gives Wis to AC.
That leaves you with three class levels to work with.

Ex-Monk 2/Ninja of the Crescent Moon 1

Another Wis to AC. And Evasion.

From 28 point buy, you have, caring only about AC:

Stats: 8/10/8/8/16/18

You have LA 4, so you'll have 4 stat points to spend on CHA.

That's 10/16/22 for Dex/Wis/Cha.

Gloura get +10 Dex, +2 Wis and +6 Cha.

So we're up to 20/18/28.

With 3 +6 items and 2 +4 tomes, you have it up to:

26/28/38

Giving bonuses of +8/+9/+14.

With 1xDex, 2xWis and 3xCha, that's a total of 78 AC.

(Qaetar)
Zathyr
12-02-04, 12:10 AM I think you forgot to add the ability mods of the saint template. It grants an additional +4 cha and +2 wis here, for an additional 2*3 + 1*2 = 8 more AC. Brings your total up to 86 AC.

EDIT: though I don't see how you fit all those levels.
Tempest Stormwind
12-02-04, 12:29 AM Quaetar's tricks are probably the way to go, but here's two things that most people missed.

Wilders at leve 2 get to add their Charisma bonus to their AC against "all touch attacks," but cannot use this to raise their touch AC higher than their normal AC.

A good 90% of the incorporeal things I can think of, in addition to benefitting from the incorporeal miss chance (and the 50% chance to avoid anything from a corporeal, non-ghost-touch source), get their Charisma to their AC as a deflection bonus.

Might want to consider some of these in later updates. I'm too tired to crunch numbers now.
Lilt
12-02-04, 05:19 PM One thing you might want to consider is the deflective armor feat from RoS which allows your armor bonus to count against touch attacks as an unnamed bonus (it's not a deflection bonus so it does stack with rings of deflection)

It requires a few feats to get, but with armor optimisation, heavy armor optimisation, and magical mountain plate I'm sure you could get your flat-footed touch-AC up-to 27 before any other modifiers. Not sure if this helps, but it's another boost.
war child of the mourn
12-02-04, 05:52 PM Try taking deep warden levels from RoS to add your con modifier to your AC, this replaces your dex to AC but with mountain plate you can't use dex however this con modifier to AC does applie and with the armour optimization feats and a con of 20 you add +17 to your AC with non magical mountain plate included, and to increase this further make your armour magical, and while your at it throw in a magical tower shield for an extra 4 or more (due to magical enhancements) for a total of +21 with non magical protective equipment and 20 con so easily an AC of 31 for a dwarf
Lilt
12-03-04, 07:03 AM Sadly we're talking about flat-footed touch AC here. Con bonus to AC is lost when flat-footed so that wouldn't really count for this excercise.
Qaetar
12-03-04, 11:47 AM You're right, I screwed up when calculating my ECL.

But the base engine still works.

(Qaetar)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
warpdragon 11-30-04, 09:10 PM	What is the best flat-footed-touch-ac one can obtain? Ie. if normal is 30, flatfooted is 25, and touch is 20, ff/t is 15 (just using round numbers) [Sorry I stole your phrase, whoever I got it from]
Bellegante 11-30-04, 10:08 PM	I'm sure someone will improve upon it, but - the two important things will be uncanny dodge, and gnome twist cloth. Gnome twist cloth is armor that adds to your touch AC, and requires an exotic armor proficiency.. I beleive it only gives +1 without enhancement, though. So enchanted +5 is +6 to your flat footed, touch AC. I am surprised that there's no real term for that in the rules.. I mean, it stands to reason that a touch attack is a great opener if an opponent is flat footed, especially in 3.0 with harm =P
catharz 11-30-04, 10:14 PM	Monks get their AC bonus when flat footed.
Zathyr 12-01-04, 03:16 PM	So, no dodge, armor, shield, natural armor, or exalted/vile bonuses? Circumstance? I'm not sure if we'd count that one. Armor can count against touch ac with gnome twist cloth, but it's easier and possibly cheaper to buff your wisdom past +6 and get the unarmored bonus from monk. Plus with the saint template you get wis to AC as an insight bonus as well. This has all been done before, but for the record: Deflection: -granted by an item -Unearthly grace (= cha) -probably some other ways Insight: -ioun stone -saint template -some spells I think, can't recall Luck: -Luck of Heroes feat (+1) -err, I'm blanking out here Sacred/profane: -my mind has turned to mush Artificers have an infusion that changes the bonus type granted by an item, so you can have anything off the list barring a sacred, profane, or dodge bonus. and the assorted misc stuff like Size Cover Dex (with uncanny dodge) Wiz (monk unnarmored bonus) Int (added to dex with canny defense[duelist and probably other PrC's]) Haste blah blah blah, etc. etc. So the answer is: very, very high.
Qaetar 12-01-04, 04:43 PM	Well, here's what I've got so far: Gloura (9), Barbarian 2 (BAB +5) Sorc 2 (BAB +6) Arcane Duelist 2 (BAB +7) Divine Crusader 2 (2nd Level Divine Spells) Mystic Wanderer 1 At this point you have: Cha to AC three times: Gloura, Arcane Duelist and Mystic Wanderer. Dex to AC once. You retain your Dex to AC due to Barbarian 2. Saint (2) gives Wis to AC. That leaves you with three class levels to work with. Ex-Monk 2/Ninja of the Crescent Moon 1 Another Wis to AC. And Evasion. From 28 point buy, you have, caring only about AC: Stats: 8/10/8/8/16/18 You have LA 4, so you'll have 4 stat points to spend on CHA. That's 10/16/22 for Dex/Wis/Cha. Gloura get +10 Dex, +2 Wis and +6 Cha. So we're up to 20/18/28. With 3 +6 items and 2 +4 tomes, you have it up to: 26/28/38 Giving bonuses of +8/+9/+14. With 1xDex, 2xWis and 3xCha, that's a total of 78 AC. (Qaetar)
Zathyr 12-02-04, 12:10 AM	I think you forgot to add the ability mods of the saint template. It grants an additional +4 cha and +2 wis here, for an additional 23 + 12 = 8 more AC. Brings your total up to 86 AC. EDIT: though I don't see how you fit all those levels.
Tempest Stormwind 12-02-04, 12:29 AM	Quaetar's tricks are probably the way to go, but here's two things that most people missed. Wilders at leve 2 get to add their Charisma bonus to their AC against "all touch attacks," but cannot use this to raise their touch AC higher than their normal AC. A good 90% of the incorporeal things I can think of, in addition to benefitting from the incorporeal miss chance (and the 50% chance to avoid anything from a corporeal, non-ghost-touch source), get their Charisma to their AC as a deflection bonus. Might want to consider some of these in later updates. I'm too tired to crunch numbers now.
Lilt 12-02-04, 05:19 PM	One thing you might want to consider is the deflective armor feat from RoS which allows your armor bonus to count against touch attacks as an unnamed bonus (it's not a deflection bonus so it does stack with rings of deflection) It requires a few feats to get, but with armor optimisation, heavy armor optimisation, and magical mountain plate I'm sure you could get your flat-footed touch-AC up-to 27 before any other modifiers. Not sure if this helps, but it's another boost.
war child of the mourn 12-02-04, 05:52 PM	Try taking deep warden levels from RoS to add your con modifier to your AC, this replaces your dex to AC but with mountain plate you can't use dex however this con modifier to AC does applie and with the armour optimization feats and a con of 20 you add +17 to your AC with non magical mountain plate included, and to increase this further make your armour magical, and while your at it throw in a magical tower shield for an extra 4 or more (due to magical enhancements) for a total of +21 with non magical protective equipment and 20 con so easily an AC of 31 for a dwarf
Lilt 12-03-04, 07:03 AM	Sadly we're talking about flat-footed touch AC here. Con bonus to AC is lost when flat-footed so that wouldn't really count for this excercise.
Qaetar 12-03-04, 11:47 AM	You're right, I screwed up when calculating my ECL. But the base engine still works. (Qaetar)