Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sixdaystillinga 08-03-05, 05:25 PM	Hi, I'm looking for a good build to maximise both the number and the abilities of my animal companions. I was just looking through Complete Adventurer and the Beastmaster PrC looked interesting. I thought it would be a lot of fun to play a character with like 6 animal companions. The problem is, I can't see it being very powerful. Please help! Also, if you could suggest what to take as animal companions, that would be great.
ninjarabbit 08-03-05, 06:48 PM	A druid19/beastmaster1 would net you 23 levels for animal companion, you could in theory have a T-Rex a level 12.
Richmud 08-03-05, 09:34 PM	Well the 4th level shifter ranger substitution level presented in races of eberron causes you animal companion to gain the bonuses you can while shifting and better nat weapons if its match yours, this inculdes shifter feats so something like: Ranger 4, druid 1, beastmaster 1, druid 2-15 would come out with a very good animal companion. Or if you want one good companion and a group of lessers: Ranger 4, druid 1, beastmaster 10, druid 2-6 Keep in mind that beastmaster's additional companions are signifcantly inferiour to the main one
Sixdaystillinga 08-03-05, 09:47 PM	Yes, that was my main concern with the Beastmaster PrC. It is cool to run around with an army of animals behind you but if they can't do anything then it isn't worth it. I like the look of the Shifter build. Exactly what are the rules for the variant? Call me cheap but I have Eberron but I don't want to go out and buy a whole book for this one character.
Khazra Reborn 08-03-05, 10:09 PM	Alot of little guys can be good, the biggest helps are probaly mass bears endurance & animal growth for con increases. Makes them much more surviable.
Sixdaystillinga 08-03-05, 10:38 PM	I suppose but wouldn't their damage output be pretty low? Even with the CON boosts they would still die easily right? Each one would have less HD than the last.
Critical Mass 08-04-05, 03:57 AM	Back in 3e you could get an entire horde of shocker lizards as your "animal companion." Good times.
Kaiberon 08-04-05, 05:00 AM	Going straight druid into beastmaster is a pretty good pull, their's a feat called natural bond that will make up for 3 levels lost to multiclassing should you decide to go with the ranger concept. Also you'll end up with 1/day wildshape(qualifying you for the extra wildshape feat) and some good spells like mass lesser vigor, as well as some signature druid abilities like trackless step and woodland stride (things you would miss with the ranger build). Ranger merits<druid merits, for instance, a ranger usually emplys stealth, hard to do when your animal companion is a T-Rex.
Skadrian 08-04-05, 05:07 AM	there is a paladin/druid build somewhere around here which combines the special mount and animal companion benefits, should be linked to in the library, it got a really strong companion
MustafaHazaraKhan 08-04-05, 05:44 AM	I've also recently used Beastmaster for an NPC in a campaign I'm writing. There are three ways to look at it from a CO perspective: as a 1-level dip, by observing the break-points, or by combining it with arcane casting. As a dip class it doesn't look too bad. A Druid effectively pays one feat and a level of casting and wild shape to gain two good saves and +3 animal companion levels. These extra animal levels are not restricted by the character's own level, so you can have a better animal companion than the average druid. The break-points of the class are 4th, 7th, and 10th (when you get the new companions), the most optimal of which is probably 4th for the Alterness feat, second companion, and saves increase. More than one use per day of Speak with Animals is probably unnecessary, and you shouldn't need low-light vision or scent because at least one of your animals should have them by the time you reach 13th level. Better than Beastmaster for animal companions is mixing Arcane Hierophant (Races of the Wild) with the Theurgic Bond feat (Dragon 325), which lets you add levels from familiar-using classes to determine the abilities of your animal companion (or vice versa, but not both together). Arcane Hierophant grants both familiar progression and animal companion progression, so with the feat adding 20 companion levels; not bad for a 10 level PrC that also has dual-casting, wild shape progression and a host of other abilities. By doing this it easy to get a level 34 animal companion (the best they can be pre-epic). The following quick-and-dirty build gets a level 36 companion (that is also a 13th level familiar) and a level 30 secondary companion at 20th level. You could drop three levels of Hierophant for another three of Beastmaster to finish with three companions of levels 33, 27, and 24... but you lose 6 casting levels in the mix so you might not consider it worthwhile. Note that the build has most of its feats still to play with, among which you might consider taking Theurgic Bond a second time to make your companion a 20th level familiar. Druid 3 / Wizard 3 / Beastmaster 4 / Arcane Hierophant 10 Requirements: Nonlawful neutral alignment, Int 12+, Wis 12+, Handle Animal 8, Knowledge (arcana) 8, Knowledge (nature) 8, Survival 4, Skill Focus (Handle Animal) Progression: 1 - Druid 1 [Skill Focus (Handle Animal)] 2 - Wizard 1 3 - Wizard 2 [Theurgic Bond] 4 - Wizard 3 5 - Druid 2 6 - Beastmaster 1 [Natural Bond] 7 - Druid 3 8 - Arcane Hierophant 1 9 - Arcane Hierophant 2 10 - Arcane Hierophant 3 11 - Arcane Hierophant 4 12 - Arcane Hierophant 5 13 - Arcane Hierophant 6 14 - Arcane Hierophant 7 15 - Arcane Hierophant 8 16 - Arcane Hierophant 9 17 - Arcane Hierophant 10 18 - Beastmaster 2 19 - Beastmaster 3 20 - Beastmaster 4 Hope this helps. Can anyone improve on that build? As for suggestions as to what companions to take, mine is to mix and match as the situation warrants. If they die you can just get another 24 hours later (more tricky with a companion familiar) so experiment. With levels like in the build I just supplied, you might as well just get two massive combat beasties. I'll check the MM3 for good ones then edit. (Edited cos I fluffed my original calculations)
Gerdreg 08-04-05, 07:25 AM	Here is my favorite... Ranger 10/ Beastmaster 10 I am full BAB and can have as good an animal companion as any Druid (minus the higher level buff spells) Animal Companion level = ½ Ranger 10 +Beastmaster10(+3) +Natural Bond(+3) = 21(20 max) Using the feats Practiced Spellcaster and Craft Wonderous Item, I am able to set my animal companion up with the following effects... 1Magic Fang 2Barkskin 2Bear’s Endurance 2Cat’s Grace 2Nature’s Favor(CD,CV) 2Train Animal(CV) As an aside, these are great low level Ranger spells if someone else can cast them on your "pet" for you. (3Greater Magic Fang) (4Animal Growth) At the higher levels, I went with a Dire Tiger, which would be upgraded as follows based on the animal companion chart. Dire Tiger (-15 levels on chart)(+2 HD, +2AC, +1Str/Dex, 2 Bonus Tricks, Link, Share Spells, Evasion, feat: Multiattack) I took the two-weapon fighting feats for the rest of my feats. The strong point of this build is that it is a reasonable +20 BAB melee, with the pet as additional support. The pet is also nothing to sneeze at. Take a look at the base Dire Tiger in the MM3.5. [edit] I also tried a similar character using Druid 10 for better animal companion pet spells, but I felt the stronger/multiple companions was not worth the loss of the higher level spells. Make your animal companion as strong as it can be, but realize it is support and won't replace a strong you.
Ranix 08-04-05, 07:34 AM	Here's a nice build that loves its animal companion: Halfling Dragonrider 1 Cleric 1 [Skill Focus: Handle Animal, Point Blank Shot] 2 Fighter 1 [Mounted Combat] 3 Fighter 2 [Mounted Archery, Precise Shot] 4 Ranger 1 [Track] 5 Ranger 2 [Point Blank Shot] 6 Prestige Paladin 1 [Dragon Steed] 7 Prestige Paladin 2 (Special Mount) 8 Beastmaster (Animal Companion) 9 Halfling Outrider 1 [Devoted Tracker, Alertness] 10 Halfling Outrider 2 11 Halfling Outrider 3 12 Halfling Outrider 4 [Natural Link] 13 Halfling Outrider 5 14 Halfling Outrider 6 15 Halfling Outrider 7 [Feat] 16 Halfling Outrider 8 17 Halfling Outrider 9 18 Halfling Outrider 10 [Feat] 19 Ranger 3 20 Ranger 4 The build gets the dragon as both an animal companion and a paladin mount, and proceeds to jack it like crazy. Customize the dragon as you see fit, it gets bonus feats for increased hit dice and all sorts of stuff. Just take the Dragonel (it has 6hd and doesn't count against your effective paladin mount level) and let it get advanced by Special Mount and Animal Companion Your effective levels in paladin/druid to apply to your dragon are as follows: Level Special Mount/Animal Companion 1 0/0 2 0/0 3 0/0 4 0/0 5 0/0 6 4/0 7 5/0 8 5/4 9 6/5 10 7/6 11 8/7 12 9/11 13 10/12 14 11/13 15 12/14 16 13/15 17 14/16 18 15/17 19 15/17 20 15/18 From levels 9+ your dragon has more hit dice than you do. :) You'll need to check Dragon Steed from Draconomicon, Devoted Tracker from Complete Adventurer(?) and note that Halfling Outrider increases BOTH animal companion AND special mount. Not either/or. Enjoy.
Ranix 08-04-05, 07:38 AM	Make your animal companion as strong as it can be, but realize it is support and won't replace a strong you. Ha, my build defies this logic!
Lilt 08-04-05, 07:43 AM	Maybe consider taking 2 levels of suel arcanamach, the summon familiar feat, and a level of Arcane Heirophant? That may drop your companion progression by 2 levels but it gives one of your companions higher intelligence (7), the ability to deliver touch spells, and a +2 bonus to natural armor. Plus, you can take more Arcane Heirophant levels to boost druidic casting, SA casting, companion abilities, and other familiar abilities.
MustafaHazaraKhan 08-04-05, 09:29 AM	Maybe consider taking 2 levels of suel arcanamach, the summon familiar feat, and a level of Arcane Heirophant? That may drop your companion progression by 2 levels but it gives one of your companions higher intelligence (7), the ability to deliver touch spells, and a +2 bonus to natural armor. Why stop there? Take 10 levels of Arcane Hierophant and Theurgic Bond a second time, and have Int 15 and +10 unnamed bonus to natural armour class, along with spell resistance 25. Animal Companion level = ½ Ranger 10 +Beastmaster10(+3) +Natural Bond(+3) = 21(20 max) Natural Bond does indeed say that it will not by itself take your effective animal companion level over your effective druid level, but Beastmaster has no such restriction. It is therefore better to aim for a build with as many animal companion levels as possible rather than stopping at 20. Ranger 10 is also a pretty substandard choice for a companion-user, I'd personally rather have 19 levels of druid casting and wild shaping than +19 BAB and a bunch of substandard companions. I also agree with Ranix, it is easy to make a druid animal companion that is a superior combatant to its handler (I really like that Halfling Dragonrider build btw). Take a look at this for example, the stats of a Dire Tiger companion familiar being used by my above build. This is without buffs, mind, so the AC and damage output are likely to be much higher during combat. Dire Tiger: Large Magical Beast (enhanced Animal); HD 28d8+84; hp 213; Init +9; Speed 40 ft.; AC 42 (–1 size, +5 Dex, +28 natural), touch 14, flat-footed 37; Base Atk +21; Grp +40; Full Atk 2 claws +31 melee (2d4+11) and bite +28 melee (2d6+5); Space/Reach 10 ft./5 ft.; SA Improved grab, pounce, rake 2d4+5; SQ Deliver touch spells, empathic link, improved evasion, link, low-light vision, scent, share spells, speak with master & tigers, spell resistance 25; AL N; SV Fort +18, Ref +21, Will +17; Str 33, Dex 21, Con 17, Int 15, Wis 12, Cha 10. Skills and Feats: Hide +31 (+4 in heavy undergrowth), Jump +31, Listen +23, Move Silently +27, Spot +23, Swim +31; Alertness, Fleet of Foot, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (claw), Improved Natural Attack (bite), Multiattack, Power Attack, Run, Stealthy, Weapon Focus (claw). This companion is a beefy shock trooper, being able to charge round corners while hidden to make a full attack and free grapple. Power attack and a few choice spells enhance its damage to reasonable levels while high AC and saves plus spell resistance provide a reasonable defence. Should roughly be able to take a Balor 1-on-1.
CompleteSatori 08-04-05, 10:09 AM	I actually ran a 12th level campaign where one of my NPC's was a Ranger 5/ Beastmaster 7 (even with substandard Ranger companionness, the feat previously mentioned: Natural Bond, removed that limitation) and his trained War Dogs actually could perform as well on the battlefield as most of the group (except the barbarian). With the extra levels they have, they all (3 o them) easily afforded Dodge Mobility and the Wolfpack tactical feat, and while they were pushing out around 25 or so damage per round, they also could control the battlefield. Note that Wardog is a 1st level choice, I am certain that this could be utilized better, but it should be noted that I was more than a little surprised at how powerful the dogs ended up being, and I run and play in an optimized group!
LordKiwi 08-04-05, 10:20 AM	Druid 19 / Beastmaster 1 with Natural bond is simple and effective. Natural Bond will only give you a 3 level boost if your companion type grants at least a -6 druid level penalty (Natural Bond boosts the bonus you gain from the animal companion chart, not your druid level. The down side is you can't get big beasies early, the plus side is once you have them the level penalty is offset.) In this case get a tiger at level 6 (it has 10HD at this point :) ), then get a Dire Tiger and Horrid Tiger as soon as you can after that. Personally I'd have it take advantage of feats such as shocktrooper (CW) and knockback (RoS). If anyone comes near you it just charges in and scatters them. Lord Kiwi,
AramilWindwalker 08-04-05, 10:31 AM	I've been wondering, is it possible to use Paladin(of freedom or some such variant), ranger,druid, wizard/sorceror,arcane hierophant and devoted tracker to have your animal companion also be your familiar and special mount? If so what would be the best build for this?
LordKiwi 08-04-05, 10:54 AM	I've been wondering, is it possible to use Paladin(of freedom or some such variant), ranger,druid, wizard/sorceror,arcane hierophant and devoted tracker to have your animal companion also be your familiar and special mount? If so what would be the best build for this? What you need Paladin 5 Wizard 3 Druid 3 Arcane Heirophant 1 Halfling Outrider to finish (8) Devout Tracker + Natural Bond Special Mount level 13 Animal Companion level 15 Famliliar level 4 Matures very late and your actually character is quite appauling. Lord Kiwi,
AramilWindwalker 08-04-05, 11:03 AM	Thanks, since I just needed to know if it worked at all, I'm planning something very epic with this idea(just a note, you would need the anarch Variant almost exclusively)
Gerdreg 08-04-05, 11:23 AM	Natural Bond does indeed say that it will not by itself take your effective animal companion level over your effective druid level, but Beastmaster has no such restriction. It is therefore better to aim for a build with as many animal companion levels as possible rather than stopping at 20. Ranger 10 is also a pretty substandard choice for a companion-user, I'd personally rather have 19 levels of druid casting and wild shaping than +19 BAB and a bunch of substandard companions. I can't dispute this but it's like saying you shouldn't play a melee class (like a Ranger) because it's substandard to a Druid's casting and wildshape (which is unfortunately true, but that's another discussion) What if I don't wanna play a Druid but I do wanna play a melee character though? Also, Ranger 10/ Beastmaster 10 is +20BAB, full melee.
Sixdaystillinga 08-04-05, 01:53 PM	Very cool. The one from MustafaHazaraKhan was pretty nice. I really like the look of the Dragon rinding halfling though. I hadn't even thought of combining it with paladin's mount. It would also provide for some pretty good roleplay ideas. I wonder, Is there a way to combine the Drgon Mount with the Shifter feat mentioned before. Sure that would mean that halfling outrider would have to be replaced but there are plenty of feats that are good for riders. Isn't there a class specifically for airborn mounts? Maybe we could use that instead.
Lilt 08-04-05, 02:43 PM	How are you going to mix special mount and arcane heirophant? Special mount -> Paladin -> Lawful Good Arcane Heirophant -> Trackless Step -> Druid -> One allignment axis must be neutral If you were allowed to swap Trackless step for some ranger ability, then maybe consider the following: Ranger 4/Cleric 1/Prestige Paladin 3/Suel Arcanamach 2/Arcane Heirophant 1/Halfling Outrider 10 BAB 17, Animal Companion level 12 (15 with Natural Bond feat) Familiar level 3 (Hey, it's a break point) Special mount level 16 Turn undead for divine feats Or if you are allowed to ignore the allignment problems: Druid 4/Wizard 2/Cleric 1/Prestige Paladin 2/Dragonslayer 1/Arcane Heirophant 1/Halfling Outrider 9 BAB 16 Animal Companion level 14 (17 with Natural Bond feat) Familiar level 3 (Hey, it's a break point) Special Mount level 14 Wildshape (only 1/day, but it's still cool) Turn undead for divine feats Quite a mish-mash there...
MustafaHazaraKhan 08-04-05, 05:05 PM	I can't dispute this but it's like saying you shouldn't play a melee class (like a Ranger) because it's substandard to a Druid's casting and wildshape (which is unfortunately true, but that's another discussion) What if I don't wanna play a Druid but I do wanna play a melee character though? Also, Ranger 10/ Beastmaster 10 is +20BAB, full melee. Alas, I know it is sad but that is the nature of the beast. From a character optimisation standpoint, melee builds with animal companions are inferior to caster builds with animal companions when it comes to "maximising both the number and abilities of animal companions". If you really want to play a full melee animal companion character then there are better ways to fill your last 5 levels than more Ranger. Wild Plains Outrider and Halfling Outrider are both full BAB classes with full animal companion or special mount progression, and both eventually allow full attacks while mounted, the Wild Plains Outrider with a melee weapon only but 5 levels earlier. For a companion / special mount combo, look no farther than Ranix's build above.
Sixdaystillinga 08-04-05, 07:16 PM	For a companion / special mount combo, look no farther than Ranix's build above. Yes, but that assumes you play a halfling character. Richmud had mentioned a feat from Races of Eberron that lets your mount/companion gain the bonuses that your shifter character gains while shifted. I think the ideal would be if we could get a shifter with that feat but otherwise the same as Ranix's build of the Halfling Dragonrider.
Sixdaystillinga 08-04-05, 07:47 PM	Well, the class I was thinking of was Skylord from Exhalted Deeds but it looks like it is only for elves or half-elves. There are other classes for mounted combat though, any ideas?
Ranix 08-04-05, 08:11 PM	Not having Outrider makes the build useless because the companion no longer has Theurge scaling. If you'd rather not have a dragon, or would rather not be a paladin try qualifying for Algarondan Griffonrider instead. Unfortunately without being a halfling you just can' be as good at handling your animal. The ranger/paladin multiclass with Devoted Tracker isn't a terrible idea in and of itself, but I would leave off at that point and focus on other things. Try Human Ranger2 / Paladin 3 / Beastmaster 1 / Algarondan Griffonrider 10 / Outrider 4 You'll have a lot of free feats, spend them qualifying for griffonrider and making your character suck less. Your griffon won't have anywhere near as many hd as it could at 20.
Sixdaystillinga 08-04-05, 08:19 PM	Thanks Ranix, I think I'm going to give your halfling build a shot. Just curious, where is Algarondan Griffonrider from?
ninjarabbit 08-04-05, 09:12 PM	For a normal halfling try this 1-ranger1-mounted combat 1-ranger2-rapid shot 3-paladin1-devoted tracker 4-paladin2 5-ranger3 6-paladin3-mounted archery 7-ranger4 8-paladin4 9-paladin5-skill focus handle animal 10-beastmaster1 11-20-halfling outrider and make sure you take the natural bond feat You end up with a animal companion with the abilites of a 15th level paladin mount and a 19 (2 from ranger, 4 from beastmaster, 3 from natural bond, 10 from HO) level animal companion. For a human try this: 1-ranger1-mounted combat, power attack 2-paladin1 3-paladin2-devoted tracker 4-paladin3 5-paladin4 6-paladin5-skill focus handle animal 7-beastmaster1 8-beastmaster2 9-wild plains outrider2-divine might 10-wild plains outrider2 11-wild plains outrider3 12-fighter1-ride by attack, natural bond 13-fighter2-spirited charge 14-ranger2-rapid shot 15-ranger3-mounted archery 16-fighter3 17-fighter4-player's choice 18-ranger4-player's choice 19-beastmaster3 20-beastmaster4 You end up with an animal companion with the abilites of a 5th level paladin mount (which is all you really need anyways) and a 15th (2 from ranger, 7 from beastmaster, 3 from natural bond, 3 from wild plains outrider) level animal companion and the feats to use it effectively.
Ranix 08-06-05, 03:15 PM	Algarondan Griffonrider is from Unapproachable East
Sixdaystillinga 08-06-05, 08:57 PM	Thanks. You know what? I think the only way to improve on that build is to take the celestial companion feat. That way it is a celestial Dragonell. Sweet. I like this. Actually Ranix, one question; Why the level of Cleric? Would it not be better to take another paladin or ranger level?
snb1131 08-07-05, 04:57 PM	In this case get a tiger at level 6 (it has 10HD at this point ), Wouldn't it be a 9-HD creature?