Best Assassin Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Assassin Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
MadMoly
02-20-06, 10:10 PM I am trying to make the best Assassin at the lowest possible ECL. Here is a toss togather first thought. Grey Elf was choosen for the bonuses to both DEX and INT because of stealth and insightful strike/assassin spells.

Grey Elf

STR 10 +0
DEX 18 +4
CON 10 +0
INT 19 +4
WIS 10 +0
CHA 10 +0

Swashbuckler 3/Ranger 2/Assasin 1

1-Weapon Finesse (Swash), Weapon Focus (Short Sword)
2-Grace +1 (Swash)
3-Insightful Strike (Swash), Quick Draw
4-Favored (human), Trak (Ranger), Wild Empathy, INT +1
5-Comabt Style - Two Weapon
6-Improved Two Weapon, Sneak Attack +1d6, death attack, poison use, spells

At level seven:
BAB +5
Fort - +6
Reflex- +10
Will - +1

This was just with Core and Complete, but all are availible
rilem
02-20-06, 10:17 PM Always take the class with the highest number of skill points first (in this case, ranger).

Otherwise, you've pretty much got it. Some people go for Swash3/Rog2 for trapfinding and Evasion, which is worth it in my opinion. From here the standard is Asn8/TelflammarShadowlord6 (with shadow walker template or a dip into something, or Asn10/DarkHunter5 (a bit redundant with Hide in Plain Sight but uses your Track feat nicely).
Slyver
02-20-06, 10:31 PM This is my assassin that I am currently playing. To say the least, he kicks ass.

Race: Human
Template: shadow walker (+1 LA, buy off at level 3)
Monk is cobra strike variant, weapon school escrima

1 Rogue Blind fight, craven, Faerie mysteries initiate, flaw (shaky)
2 Monk dodge
3 Monk mobilty, carmendine monk
4 Swashbuckler weapon finesse
5 Swashbuckler
6 Swashbuckler Spring attack, insightful strike
7 Assassin
8 Teflemmar Shadowlord
9 Teflemmar Shadowlord ability focus (death attack)
10 Teflemmar Shadowlord
11 Teflemmar Shadowlord
12 Teflemmar Shadowlord Sun school monk
13 Teflemmar Shadowlord
14 Assassin
15 Assassin Stunning fist
16 Assassin
17 Assassin
18 Assassin quicken SLA (dimension door)
19 Assassin
20 Assassin

Int replaces con for hps, int to damage, AC, death attack DC, stunning fist DC, skill points, many skllls, bonus arcane spells for two classes and save DC's.

Dex to AC, to hit.

Sneak attack 5d6+20.

Movement 40 (like it matters).

Focus everything on Int, secondary dex, dump all other stats if you wish (although they never hurt).

Flurry with an assassin dagger or shortsword. Gets 5 attacks on a shadow pounce, three at highest bab-2 (6 with haste or weapon of speed), can do it twice/rnd at level 18+. Can DD (or similar effect) 20+ times/day.

Death attack DC 37+

Slyver
Adan Northgan
02-20-06, 10:44 PM rog3/fig2/assassim9/Telf.Shadowlord6
if her intention is to kill using the death attack the ideal combination would be that.fighter's levels are for the feats of application of T. shadowlord.
take the feat ability focus and use an assassin's dagger.
DC: 10+15 !assassin and T.Shadow) + 1 assassin's dagger+ 2 ability focus + int. DC:28+int
use scrolls (greater invisible, time stop, greater aspect of deity evil version and other spells) using the skill use magic devise to help in her work!
rilem
02-20-06, 10:54 PM Note that Death Attack pretty much bites unless you're really working as an assassin (i.e., working solo and concentrating on weak merchants/politicians). In general dungeoneering your foes will have much higher fortitude saves, and though you can get your Death Attack DC into the 40s or so, you really have to be gung-ho about boosting your Intelligence. By late levels, many foes will be immune to Death Attack altogether, either by virtue of being undead, or fortification, or having concealment, etc.

Even when your Death Attack will work, if you're in any sort of optimized party, your colleagues will have killed off most of the opposition while you're waiting for your three rounds to charge your Death Attack.
PhaedrusXY
02-20-06, 11:20 PM This (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8376919&postcount=27) is my latest favorite.
Slyver
02-20-06, 11:24 PM Note that Death Attack pretty much bites unless you're really working as an assassin (i.e., working solo and concentrating on weak merchants/politicians). In general dungeoneering your foes will have much higher fortitude saves, and though you can get your Death Attack DC into the 40s or so, you really have to be gung-ho about boosting your Intelligence. By late levels, many foes will be immune to Death Attack altogether, either by virtue of being undead, or fortification, or having concealment, etc.

Even when your Death Attack will work, if you're in any sort of optimized party, your colleagues will have killed off most of the opposition while you're waiting for your three rounds to charge your Death Attack.

Death attack is not something you do in the heat of combat. And yes, there are a lot of undead at higher levels. Thing is, with the build I posted above, you will have so many hps and such a high AC you can tank pretty much anything, and you still do decent, or at least measurable damage {enough to cause a very difficult concentration check) and can make sure something is always flanked, or be where ever you are most needed on the battlefield. Against everything else, if you can't sneak up on them either you are not thinking very well or they are very well fortified, and that just happens. If you can sneak up on them (within 800 feet or so) you will very likely kill them outright.

My assassin (level 20) vs. ancient red dragon (CR 25). In a cave 400 feet wide (well outside of blindsight range), study for 3 rounds. Cast wraithstrike, quicken DD in, 45+% chance of killing outright with death attack, if not, should do ~800 points of damage in the first round. Dead 1000 year old dragon.

It has it's limitations, but it certainly has it uses.

Slyver
rilem
02-20-06, 11:46 PM My assassin (level 20) vs. ancient red dragon (CR 25). In a cave 400 feet wide (well outside of blindsight range), study for 3 rounds. Cast wraithstrike, quicken DD in, 45+% chance of killing outright with death attack, if not, should do ~800 points of damage in the first round. Dead 1000 year old dragon.

I like your build, but this is laughable for all the reasons that insta-kill strategies on Ancient Dragons and other high-CR monsters (who are, of course, unawares and defenseless in their lairs) usually are. What makes the Carmandine Monk/swash idea worthwhile is the Int-synergy, which lets you max out your Death Attack without sacrificing your other abilities.

I happen to like a Rog/Archivist/BlackFlameZealot/Strifeleader, which gets a higher Death Attack DC b/c of the strifeleader's Improved Death Attack, and is a better spellcaster to boot. Spells, in the end, are a far better assassin's tool.
Surreal
02-21-06, 03:40 AM I've said it before and I'll say it again, the best assassin is a pretty bar maid with a short skirt, poison on her lips, and a stiletto in her corset. If I'm going to go, I better damn well be enjoying myself when I die.
Tlazcotl
02-21-06, 07:17 AM where are la buy-offs at

also awesome build :D
MadMoly
02-21-06, 08:25 AM Thanks, definatly some things to consider.
Slyver
02-21-06, 11:40 AM LA buyoff is spelled out (haphazzardly) in unearthed arcana. It doesn't scale well at all, but it can make very low LA's (+1-2) worth taking (instead of avoiding them like the plague).

Just to rant, the whole LA system is quite possibly the worst rule set in 3.0+ dnd. Of course there are (broken) exceptions, but generally; overpowered at level 1, completely worthless at level 10-15+, mediocre to p iss poor in between.

Phaedrus, I love that build by Reinhart also. Great flavor.

Slyver
MadMoly
02-21-06, 12:08 PM Always take the class with the highest number of skill points first (in this case, ranger).

the reason for taking ranger later is that Hide and Move Silently are ranger skills, so at level 5 I can take the required 8 ranks in both. with ranger as levels 1 and 2, i can't hit the skills without using a feat to go Able Learner. (If i went that way, Fighter feats would be better then combat style)
PhaedrusXY
02-21-06, 12:29 PM the reason for taking ranger later is that Hide and Move Silently are ranger skills, so at level 5 I can take the required 8 ranks in both. with ranger as levels 1 and 2, i can't hit the skills without using a feat to go Able Learner. (If i went that way, Fighter feats would be better then combat style)You don't have to take them together, you know. You could go Ranger 1, then Swashbuckler 1-2, then Ranger 2, then take the last 2 ranks in each with cross-class skillpoints with Swashbuckler 3. Overall this is much better, as you'll increase your total skillpoints signifigantly by taking ranger as your first level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MadMoly 02-20-06, 10:10 PM	I am trying to make the best Assassin at the lowest possible ECL. Here is a toss togather first thought. Grey Elf was choosen for the bonuses to both DEX and INT because of stealth and insightful strike/assassin spells. Grey Elf STR 10 +0 DEX 18 +4 CON 10 +0 INT 19 +4 WIS 10 +0 CHA 10 +0 Swashbuckler 3/Ranger 2/Assasin 1 1-Weapon Finesse (Swash), Weapon Focus (Short Sword) 2-Grace +1 (Swash) 3-Insightful Strike (Swash), Quick Draw 4-Favored (human), Trak (Ranger), Wild Empathy, INT +1 5-Comabt Style - Two Weapon 6-Improved Two Weapon, Sneak Attack +1d6, death attack, poison use, spells At level seven: BAB +5 Fort - +6 Reflex- +10 Will - +1 This was just with Core and Complete, but all are availible
rilem 02-20-06, 10:17 PM	Always take the class with the highest number of skill points first (in this case, ranger). Otherwise, you've pretty much got it. Some people go for Swash3/Rog2 for trapfinding and Evasion, which is worth it in my opinion. From here the standard is Asn8/TelflammarShadowlord6 (with shadow walker template or a dip into something, or Asn10/DarkHunter5 (a bit redundant with Hide in Plain Sight but uses your Track feat nicely).
Slyver 02-20-06, 10:31 PM	This is my assassin that I am currently playing. To say the least, he kicks ass. Race: Human Template: shadow walker (+1 LA, buy off at level 3) Monk is cobra strike variant, weapon school escrima 1 Rogue Blind fight, craven, Faerie mysteries initiate, flaw (shaky) 2 Monk dodge 3 Monk mobilty, carmendine monk 4 Swashbuckler weapon finesse 5 Swashbuckler 6 Swashbuckler Spring attack, insightful strike 7 Assassin 8 Teflemmar Shadowlord 9 Teflemmar Shadowlord ability focus (death attack) 10 Teflemmar Shadowlord 11 Teflemmar Shadowlord 12 Teflemmar Shadowlord Sun school monk 13 Teflemmar Shadowlord 14 Assassin 15 Assassin Stunning fist 16 Assassin 17 Assassin 18 Assassin quicken SLA (dimension door) 19 Assassin 20 Assassin Int replaces con for hps, int to damage, AC, death attack DC, stunning fist DC, skill points, many skllls, bonus arcane spells for two classes and save DC's. Dex to AC, to hit. Sneak attack 5d6+20. Movement 40 (like it matters). Focus everything on Int, secondary dex, dump all other stats if you wish (although they never hurt). Flurry with an assassin dagger or shortsword. Gets 5 attacks on a shadow pounce, three at highest bab-2 (6 with haste or weapon of speed), can do it twice/rnd at level 18+. Can DD (or similar effect) 20+ times/day. Death attack DC 37+ Slyver
Adan Northgan 02-20-06, 10:44 PM	rog3/fig2/assassim9/Telf.Shadowlord6 if her intention is to kill using the death attack the ideal combination would be that.fighter's levels are for the feats of application of T. shadowlord. take the feat ability focus and use an assassin's dagger. DC: 10+15 !assassin and T.Shadow) + 1 assassin's dagger+ 2 ability focus + int. DC:28+int use scrolls (greater invisible, time stop, greater aspect of deity evil version and other spells) using the skill use magic devise to help in her work!
rilem 02-20-06, 10:54 PM	Note that Death Attack pretty much bites unless you're really working as an assassin (i.e., working solo and concentrating on weak merchants/politicians). In general dungeoneering your foes will have much higher fortitude saves, and though you can get your Death Attack DC into the 40s or so, you really have to be gung-ho about boosting your Intelligence. By late levels, many foes will be immune to Death Attack altogether, either by virtue of being undead, or fortification, or having concealment, etc. Even when your Death Attack will work, if you're in any sort of optimized party, your colleagues will have killed off most of the opposition while you're waiting for your three rounds to charge your Death Attack.
PhaedrusXY 02-20-06, 11:20 PM	This (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=8376919&postcount=27) is my latest favorite.
Slyver 02-20-06, 11:24 PM	Note that Death Attack pretty much bites unless you're really working as an assassin (i.e., working solo and concentrating on weak merchants/politicians). In general dungeoneering your foes will have much higher fortitude saves, and though you can get your Death Attack DC into the 40s or so, you really have to be gung-ho about boosting your Intelligence. By late levels, many foes will be immune to Death Attack altogether, either by virtue of being undead, or fortification, or having concealment, etc. Even when your Death Attack will work, if you're in any sort of optimized party, your colleagues will have killed off most of the opposition while you're waiting for your three rounds to charge your Death Attack. Death attack is not something you do in the heat of combat. And yes, there are a lot of undead at higher levels. Thing is, with the build I posted above, you will have so many hps and such a high AC you can tank pretty much anything, and you still do decent, or at least measurable damage {enough to cause a very difficult concentration check) and can make sure something is always flanked, or be where ever you are most needed on the battlefield. Against everything else, if you can't sneak up on them either you are not thinking very well or they are very well fortified, and that just happens. If you can sneak up on them (within 800 feet or so) you will very likely kill them outright. My assassin (level 20) vs. ancient red dragon (CR 25). In a cave 400 feet wide (well outside of blindsight range), study for 3 rounds. Cast wraithstrike, quicken DD in, 45+% chance of killing outright with death attack, if not, should do ~800 points of damage in the first round. Dead 1000 year old dragon. It has it's limitations, but it certainly has it uses. Slyver
rilem 02-20-06, 11:46 PM	My assassin (level 20) vs. ancient red dragon (CR 25). In a cave 400 feet wide (well outside of blindsight range), study for 3 rounds. Cast wraithstrike, quicken DD in, 45+% chance of killing outright with death attack, if not, should do ~800 points of damage in the first round. Dead 1000 year old dragon. I like your build, but this is laughable for all the reasons that insta-kill strategies on Ancient Dragons and other high-CR monsters (who are, of course, unawares and defenseless in their lairs) usually are. What makes the Carmandine Monk/swash idea worthwhile is the Int-synergy, which lets you max out your Death Attack without sacrificing your other abilities. I happen to like a Rog/Archivist/BlackFlameZealot/Strifeleader, which gets a higher Death Attack DC b/c of the strifeleader's Improved Death Attack, and is a better spellcaster to boot. Spells, in the end, are a far better assassin's tool.
Surreal 02-21-06, 03:40 AM	I've said it before and I'll say it again, the best assassin is a pretty bar maid with a short skirt, poison on her lips, and a stiletto in her corset. If I'm going to go, I better damn well be enjoying myself when I die.
Tlazcotl 02-21-06, 07:17 AM	where are la buy-offs at also awesome build :D
MadMoly 02-21-06, 08:25 AM	Thanks, definatly some things to consider.
Slyver 02-21-06, 11:40 AM	LA buyoff is spelled out (haphazzardly) in unearthed arcana. It doesn't scale well at all, but it can make very low LA's (+1-2) worth taking (instead of avoiding them like the plague). Just to rant, the whole LA system is quite possibly the worst rule set in 3.0+ dnd. Of course there are (broken) exceptions, but generally; overpowered at level 1, completely worthless at level 10-15+, mediocre to p iss poor in between. Phaedrus, I love that build by Reinhart also. Great flavor. Slyver
MadMoly 02-21-06, 12:08 PM	Always take the class with the highest number of skill points first (in this case, ranger). the reason for taking ranger later is that Hide and Move Silently are ranger skills, so at level 5 I can take the required 8 ranks in both. with ranger as levels 1 and 2, i can't hit the skills without using a feat to go Able Learner. (If i went that way, Fighter feats would be better then combat style)
PhaedrusXY 02-21-06, 12:29 PM	the reason for taking ranger later is that Hide and Move Silently are ranger skills, so at level 5 I can take the required 8 ranks in both. with ranger as levels 1 and 2, i can't hit the skills without using a feat to go Able Learner. (If i went that way, Fighter feats would be better then combat style)You don't have to take them together, you know. You could go Ranger 1, then Swashbuckler 1-2, then Ranger 2, then take the last 2 ranks in each with cross-class skillpoints with Swashbuckler 3. Overall this is much better, as you'll increase your total skillpoints signifigantly by taking ranger as your first level.