Best Chameleon Build for Max Effectiveness [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Chameleon Build for Max Effectiveness [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Drakos
07-04-05, 02:36 AM Hi, I am wanting to make a character that uses the Chameleon class. My main items I want are:

1) Chameleon as soon in the build as possible.
2) Race must be Changeling from Races of Eberon
3) I need 5 levels left in th 20 duild for another prestige class.
4) Only books we allow are Core, Completes, and the Race books.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Vaelan
07-04-05, 01:46 PM A Cleric with the Trickery and Planning (from Complete Warrior) domains seems to be a favorite.

You pick up Extend spell as a bonus feat due to the Planning domain and Bluff and Disguise as class skills due to the Trickery domain. This paves the way for the earliest possible entry into Chameleon and allows you to pick up Divine Metamagic.
Atherlos
07-04-05, 02:09 PM Ooh, hard to resist warshaper if you're playing changeling.

-- Atherlos
Valgaav
07-04-05, 02:10 PM okay, what book is Chameleon in?
Atherlos
07-04-05, 02:18 PM I think it's in races of destiny. Check out the Chameleon Compilation by Mommy was an Orc:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=360082&page=1&pp=30
Sang-Drax
07-04-05, 02:18 PM okay, what book is Chameleon in?

Races of Destiny. It's also in the wizards site, though.
DavidWL
07-04-05, 02:58 PM Chameleon is in Races of Destiny. Also, online, here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b). Also, see the Chameleon thread in my signature. (That goes for you too, Drakos).
Khazra Reborn
07-04-05, 03:28 PM this is my favourite build:

human rogue1/rokugan ninja9/chameleon10 is a nice build.
feats:
1.able learner, TWF
3.PA
6.improved TWF
9. oversized TWF
12.great fortitude
15.greater TWF
18. improved toughness

Aptitude focus arcane & divine
mimic class feature SA (so +3D6)
ability boon, +6 con (to help HP), +6 str (cant hurt)

It gets:

BAB+16
6th level arcane spells
6th level divine spells
+9d6 Sneak Attack
good skills (thanks to aable leaner all skills are class skills aslong as ive had them available at some point)
trapfinding
saves:8/9/13 (not i have +6 con so should help)
intelligence to initiative
uses a katana in each hand (penaltie -2,-2)
a bonus to speed equal to 5* con modifier
poison use
improved uncanny dodge

To modify for your personal needs (changeling & as early as possible) change to rogue1/ninja4/chameleon10/ninja5-9. Apart from that, just get rid of the great fortitude & move all feats up to it down 1 place (bar able learner, your 1st level feat)
Erudite
07-04-05, 03:58 PM Atherlos and Vaelan have the right of it. Go:
Cleric (Trickery & Planning) 4/Ranger 1/Chameleon 10/Warshaper 4

This assumes you do NOT get to use fractional saves and BAB.

Cleric gives you undead turning to use for Divine Metamagic -Persistent for all of those wonderful buffs.

Ranger helpts your poor Reflex saves, gives you Track (I always find this skill to be useful, YMMV) and some decent skills for you to use later on with Able Learner.

Grab Extraordinary Spell Aim as one of your floating bonus feat when you go adventuring. Have fun with AMF. See the Chameleon Compilation thread.

Warshaper makes life more fun for Changelings. You are now immune to criticals, among other things.

There is a last level free, assuming you go that far. At the very least, interrupt your Chameleon progression for the first level of Warshaper, ASAP.

Cheers
Tweedledope
07-04-05, 05:14 PM Wow, I can't believe no one has looked at this yet. Here is my FAVORITE Changeling build...I'll modify it for your needs though.

Changeling Rogue (Substitution Level) 5/Cabinet Trickster 5/Chameleon 10...you are the ultimate in disguise...now, of course, you could always drop Chameleon down to 2 levels to gain the Bonus Feat but, I like it all 10 levels. ;)

-=Tweedledope=-
Urnsk
07-04-05, 05:50 PM I must be missing something... how is a Changeling qualifying for Able Learner? However similar a Chameleon is to a Doppleganger, it isn't one, doesn't have Doppleganger nor Human Blood in it's rules description, nor a Human or Doppleganger subtype.
Elgonn
07-04-05, 05:56 PM If you're using the Eberron Campaign Setting, the chameleon prestige class should be available to changeling player characters as well as humans and doppelgangers.

This is why.
DavidWL
07-04-05, 07:33 PM I think the Changling *should not* be able to qualify for Able Learner -- it is a signature human feat.

I think that the Changling *should* be able to qualify for Chameleon without Able Learner.
Urnsk
07-04-05, 09:02 PM That's a very interesting quote and all, but where is it mentioned in the rules?
Elgonn
07-04-05, 09:05 PM Down near the bottom (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1)
Urnsk
07-04-05, 09:06 PM Gotcha. Thanks for pointing it out.
allenchan
07-04-05, 09:30 PM imo Wis-based changelings make the best chameleons, int should be second for skills
Mommy was an Orc
07-04-05, 10:06 PM Well, I think one of the major concerns is what you ultimately want to be when you grow up and how fast you expect to get there. Party Tank? Trapmeister? Secondary spellcaster?

I like the following 3 'builds' for the 1st 5 levels:
Rogue 3/Fighter 2 - straightforward, simple
Ranger 2/Ninja 2/Cleric 1 - Wisdom for Zen Archery, AC, and bonus spells + Swift Invisibility usable a lot of times per day. Has extremely wide skill access and trapfinding.
Barbarian 2/Cleric 1(Trickery/War)/Fighter 2 - great entry for tank + you've got access to real spellcasting.

Another option if it is allowed is using Warshaper to qualify for it(as it has Disguise as a class skill - something like:
Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 1/Warshaper 1 - though how you resist getting the additional 3 levels of Warshaper for the build early on, I don't know how you do it...
aelryinth
07-04-05, 11:19 PM this comes down to what you want...see the Optimizer Thread.

YOu make a great secondary spellcaster with awesome spell DC's if need me....and decent casting power.

You can be a melee buff machine if you want.

Is BAB important? With one level of Rogue, skill points are more important then skills because of Able Learner.

Lots of dipping might be good. Barbarian for fast movement, Monk for Wis to AC, ftr 1-2 for the bonus feat, Artificer for bonus feats, Ranger for bonus feats 1-2, Rogue for lots of skills...there is a very broad list. What are your intentions for the class?

==Aelryinth
Drakos
07-04-05, 11:29 PM Thanks for all the great sugestions. I really planned to eventually take the Cabinet Trickster PrC to get most of the Doppleganger abilities. I'll have to look into the suggester build up levels, I hadn't considered the Cleric with Trickery so I'll have to look into it.

Thanks again for the suggestions.
aelryinth
07-05-05, 01:30 AM You dont need Trickery with Able Learner and one level in Rogue...they are both class skills. All you need are skill points, and all cross class skills cost one point.

Max ranks for any skill you have on any skill list is Character LEVEL +3. No need for Trickery as a Domain.

==Aelryinth

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Drakos 07-04-05, 02:36 AM	Hi, I am wanting to make a character that uses the Chameleon class. My main items I want are: 1) Chameleon as soon in the build as possible. 2) Race must be Changeling from Races of Eberon 3) I need 5 levels left in th 20 duild for another prestige class. 4) Only books we allow are Core, Completes, and the Race books. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
Vaelan 07-04-05, 01:46 PM	A Cleric with the Trickery and Planning (from Complete Warrior) domains seems to be a favorite. You pick up Extend spell as a bonus feat due to the Planning domain and Bluff and Disguise as class skills due to the Trickery domain. This paves the way for the earliest possible entry into Chameleon and allows you to pick up Divine Metamagic.
Atherlos 07-04-05, 02:09 PM	Ooh, hard to resist warshaper if you're playing changeling. -- Atherlos
Valgaav 07-04-05, 02:10 PM	okay, what book is Chameleon in?
Atherlos 07-04-05, 02:18 PM	I think it's in races of destiny. Check out the Chameleon Compilation by Mommy was an Orc: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=360082&page=1&pp=30
Sang-Drax 07-04-05, 02:18 PM	okay, what book is Chameleon in? Races of Destiny. It's also in the wizards site, though.
DavidWL 07-04-05, 02:58 PM	Chameleon is in Races of Destiny. Also, online, here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b). Also, see the Chameleon thread in my signature. (That goes for you too, Drakos).
Khazra Reborn 07-04-05, 03:28 PM	this is my favourite build: human rogue1/rokugan ninja9/chameleon10 is a nice build. feats: 1.able learner, TWF 3.PA 6.improved TWF 9. oversized TWF 12.great fortitude 15.greater TWF 18. improved toughness Aptitude focus arcane & divine mimic class feature SA (so +3D6) ability boon, +6 con (to help HP), +6 str (cant hurt) It gets: BAB+16 6th level arcane spells 6th level divine spells +9d6 Sneak Attack good skills (thanks to aable leaner all skills are class skills aslong as ive had them available at some point) trapfinding saves:8/9/13 (not i have +6 con so should help) intelligence to initiative uses a katana in each hand (penaltie -2,-2) a bonus to speed equal to 5* con modifier poison use improved uncanny dodge To modify for your personal needs (changeling & as early as possible) change to rogue1/ninja4/chameleon10/ninja5-9. Apart from that, just get rid of the great fortitude & move all feats up to it down 1 place (bar able learner, your 1st level feat)
Erudite 07-04-05, 03:58 PM	Atherlos and Vaelan have the right of it. Go: Cleric (Trickery & Planning) 4/Ranger 1/Chameleon 10/Warshaper 4 This assumes you do NOT get to use fractional saves and BAB. Cleric gives you undead turning to use for Divine Metamagic -Persistent for all of those wonderful buffs. Ranger helpts your poor Reflex saves, gives you Track (I always find this skill to be useful, YMMV) and some decent skills for you to use later on with Able Learner. Grab Extraordinary Spell Aim as one of your floating bonus feat when you go adventuring. Have fun with AMF. See the Chameleon Compilation thread. Warshaper makes life more fun for Changelings. You are now immune to criticals, among other things. There is a last level free, assuming you go that far. At the very least, interrupt your Chameleon progression for the first level of Warshaper, ASAP. Cheers
Tweedledope 07-04-05, 05:14 PM	Wow, I can't believe no one has looked at this yet. Here is my FAVORITE Changeling build...I'll modify it for your needs though. Changeling Rogue (Substitution Level) 5/Cabinet Trickster 5/Chameleon 10...you are the ultimate in disguise...now, of course, you could always drop Chameleon down to 2 levels to gain the Bonus Feat but, I like it all 10 levels. ;) -=Tweedledope=-
Urnsk 07-04-05, 05:50 PM	I must be missing something... how is a Changeling qualifying for Able Learner? However similar a Chameleon is to a Doppleganger, it isn't one, doesn't have Doppleganger nor Human Blood in it's rules description, nor a Human or Doppleganger subtype.
Elgonn 07-04-05, 05:56 PM	If you're using the Eberron Campaign Setting, the chameleon prestige class should be available to changeling player characters as well as humans and doppelgangers. This is why.
DavidWL 07-04-05, 07:33 PM	I think the Changling should not be able to qualify for Able Learner -- it is a signature human feat. I think that the Changling should be able to qualify for Chameleon without Able Learner.
Urnsk 07-04-05, 09:02 PM	That's a very interesting quote and all, but where is it mentioned in the rules?
Elgonn 07-04-05, 09:05 PM	Down near the bottom (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1)
Urnsk 07-04-05, 09:06 PM	Gotcha. Thanks for pointing it out.
allenchan 07-04-05, 09:30 PM	imo Wis-based changelings make the best chameleons, int should be second for skills
Mommy was an Orc 07-04-05, 10:06 PM	Well, I think one of the major concerns is what you ultimately want to be when you grow up and how fast you expect to get there. Party Tank? Trapmeister? Secondary spellcaster? I like the following 3 'builds' for the 1st 5 levels: Rogue 3/Fighter 2 - straightforward, simple Ranger 2/Ninja 2/Cleric 1 - Wisdom for Zen Archery, AC, and bonus spells + Swift Invisibility usable a lot of times per day. Has extremely wide skill access and trapfinding. Barbarian 2/Cleric 1(Trickery/War)/Fighter 2 - great entry for tank + you've got access to real spellcasting. Another option if it is allowed is using Warshaper to qualify for it(as it has Disguise as a class skill - something like: Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 1/Warshaper 1 - though how you resist getting the additional 3 levels of Warshaper for the build early on, I don't know how you do it...
aelryinth 07-04-05, 11:19 PM	this comes down to what you want...see the Optimizer Thread. YOu make a great secondary spellcaster with awesome spell DC's if need me....and decent casting power. You can be a melee buff machine if you want. Is BAB important? With one level of Rogue, skill points are more important then skills because of Able Learner. Lots of dipping might be good. Barbarian for fast movement, Monk for Wis to AC, ftr 1-2 for the bonus feat, Artificer for bonus feats, Ranger for bonus feats 1-2, Rogue for lots of skills...there is a very broad list. What are your intentions for the class? ==Aelryinth
Drakos 07-04-05, 11:29 PM	Thanks for all the great sugestions. I really planned to eventually take the Cabinet Trickster PrC to get most of the Doppleganger abilities. I'll have to look into the suggester build up levels, I hadn't considered the Cleric with Trickery so I'll have to look into it. Thanks again for the suggestions.
aelryinth 07-05-05, 01:30 AM	You dont need Trickery with Able Learner and one level in Rogue...they are both class skills. All you need are skill points, and all cross class skills cost one point. Max ranks for any skill you have on any skill list is Character LEVEL +3. No need for Trickery as a Domain. ==Aelryinth