Post/Author/DateTime	Post
JRedGiant 09-16-04, 10:42 AM	We're rampaging through City of the Spider Queen when...bad news...the player running our cleric archer is leaving town in 3 more sessions. I don't think we're going to get it finished that fast. So I've decided to use Limited Wish to reset my feats and give me Leadership, to pick up a cohort, after that time. We play 3.25...mostly 3.0 rules but a handful of 3.5 changes as we get ready to cut over for next campaign. Here's the party as I remember it. Me - lvl 13 wiz5/incantatrix8 - making use of persistant spell and sudden maximized firebrand or ball lightning HuWai lvl 12 monk5/tatooed monk 8 - likes to charge a LOT Solara - lvl 11, not sure the exact breakdown but a fighter/bladesinger AC beast Vrog - lvl 12 straight fighter - uses urgosh, karmic strike double hit madness Butch - lvl 11 straight rogue - non-optimized but good at trapspringing and some sneak attack fun Incidently Benign Transposition to swap Vrog and HuWai after HuWai charges is fun - I call it "Fighterball!" Anyways, I'll be getting a 9th or 10th level cohort. Obviously we'll need a primary healer. I'm thinking of just going Healer 9 to not steal the show any more than I already do, but VoP druid 9 might be good and of course there's cleric 9. Bard 9 would give us some healing and replace the ranged combat loss as well. Thoughts?
DanteHayes 09-16-04, 02:15 PM	If you have access to the Minis Handbook, the Marshal makes a good choice for a Cohort. The 4th level ability to grant a move action is very good. You could always multiclass with Bard for the competence/morale bonus for the party. Marshall 4/Bard 5 is nice especially if that 9th level feat is Craft Wand so you can Craft your own Wands of Cure XXX Wounds. Warchanter is a PRC that you could go into that would make your cohort popular as well. I would recommend a cohort that benifits your whole party as, by the sounds of it, they might resent having another "character" around who is stealling their thunder. D_H
JRedGiant 09-16-04, 03:09 PM	Interesting take Dante...I'll look at it when I get home. Can I get a source on Warchanter? I also like the bards UMD for using a Wand of Greater Magic Fang to bump up the Monk. Anyone have any other ideas?
Norad 09-16-04, 03:46 PM	In my experience, and with the understanding that your special cohort doesn't have to actually adventure with you to gain experience: Artificer - absolutely owns, while you go adventure he and his Homonculous are safely back at your home base building items for you. When you come back from an adventure you give him the crap magic items you don't want or need, he burns them for Craft Reserve and makes some more items. If you're playing in an evil game this really gets taken to the next level, I make extensive use of Darkcraft XPs gained through sacrifice to make items, which means that I basically never pay XPs for any items I have made. Of course this brings a whole new level of meaning to the phrase "I want them alive and unspoiled!".
Aceon 09-16-04, 04:00 PM	Hmm, interesting. Limited wish to reset prior feat choices? Is this legal? I don't know if I could get my DM to swallow that. Of course there is Psychic Reformation (I think that is the name) that lets you go back and reset feat and skill choices at 50XP per level back. Is that what you were thinking of? Is there a legal way to "undo" a poor class level choice? :mymy:
DanteHayes 09-16-04, 04:19 PM	Interesting take Dante...I'll look at it when I get home. Can I get a source on Warchanter? I also like the bards UMD for using a Wand of Greater Magic Fang to bump up the Monk. Anyone have any other ideas? War Chanter is in the Complete Warrior page 87. Is this legal? I don't know if I could get my DM to swallow that. No, I don't think it is nor do I think there is a legal way to do this but, as a DM I would (and have) certainly allowed players to make minor adjustments to their characters over the course of a long campaign to ensure that everyone has fun, that the party isn't significantly weakened should someone drop out or, should new material be printed that would warrant such a change. My current DM allowed everyone in the party to make pretty massive changes when the Epic Level Handbook came out so that we could qualify and enjoy, at that time, the unknown quantities of the ELH. Of course, changing the entire theme of your character was out of bounds but lots of minor changes were welcomed by us. D_H
JRedGiant 09-16-04, 05:08 PM	Hmm, interesting. Limited wish to reset prior feat choices? Is this legal? I don't know if I could get my DM to swallow that. Of course there is Psychic Reformation (I think that is the name) that lets you go back and reset feat and skill choices at 50XP per level back. Is that what you were thinking of? That is exactly it. I'm using Limited Wish to duplicate a 4th level psychic power at a cost of 400xp. (resetting 8 levels). Since 400xp > 300xp, no extra cost on the Limited Wish. My DM has already approved this use of the Limited Wish spell - as long as I don't change prereq feats, like Iron Will for Incantatrix. I believe you're stuck with class selections though.
novadude 09-16-04, 06:20 PM	Where are the details on Darkcraft?
Norad 09-16-04, 07:19 PM	Where are the details on Darkcraft? Book of Vile Darkness, furthermore, with Leadership you have a lot of low level NPCs to keep the base of operations running. If you can keep a steady supply of "volunteers" coming in they can also make sacrifices and harvest Darkcraft XPs. Keeping the steady flow is more difficult than it sounds though, we've been trying to figure a fast-reproducing creature to use as "recruiting candidates".
mostholycerebus 09-17-04, 12:43 AM	Exhaulted Bard8/Ledgendary Tactician10 with Words of Creation. Unveil your cohorts banner at the beginning of the day for a constant +12 to hit, damage and Fear save morale bonus for your entire party, no matter how large. Oh, he'll take a few points of subdual damage when he unveils it, but it lasts as long as his banner is visible (all day). The only way to 'dispell' it is to disarm him. Make him an archer and keep him in back. Cleric7/KotCX/KotSX/KotR10 with Words of Creation give you just +8 to hit, damage and Fear saves, and only 4x a day, but gets 19 levels of Cleric casting, a +18 (IIRC) BAB, better saves, and a few other goodies. Versatile tank/bodyguard/offensive caster/healer/fighter, makes for an excellent cohort.
Curunir 09-17-04, 12:58 AM	use the benevolent from the Dragon Magazine's that were released with 3.5. it's a cleric variant, you lose turn undead, but you gain the ability to spontaneously cast pretty much every healing spell instead of just cure spells and you get a luck ability. Great class
JosephKell 09-17-04, 01:00 AM	I am of two thoughts on cohorts. 1. The cohort should be similiar to the PC they are cohorting to. Why? Because they idolize the PC to a degree. Why else would they be there? A Wizard should have a lower level Wzard for a Cohort! A Fighter should have a lower level Fighter! Obviously there could be some wiggleroom... a Rogue with a Bard cohort makes sense... actually a Bard could be a cohort to just about anyone. As Bards collect tales and always seek history in the making to be the first minstral to recount a legend! 2. Whatever protects you from what you fear. If you are a Fighter, a Wizard with Dispel Magic or a Cleric with Remove Fear might be good. However, a Bard is always good as Inspire Courage is nice.
Voldenuit 09-17-04, 02:07 AM	I am of two thoughts on cohorts. 2. Whatever protects you from what you fear. If you are a Fighter, a Wizard with Dispel Magic or a Cleric with Remove Fear might be good. However, a Bard is always good as Inspire Courage is nice. "Brave Sir Robin ran away, He Bravely ran away... When danger reared its ugly head, He bravely turned his tail and fled, Brave brave brave brave Sir Robin."
Norad 09-17-04, 02:11 AM	The cohort should be similiar to the PC they are cohorting to. Why? Because they idolize the PC to a degree. That is definitely one reason, however, I think you overlooked one of the most obvious reasons, profit or personal gain. In an evil game your cohort isn't there out of some feeling of hero worship most of the time (occasionally there is the sycophantic cohort), they are there because they believe it benefits them to be there. Another reason is often faith or religious affiliation, in the past it was very common for high clergy to assign an acolyte or lower ranking member of the organization to apprentice with a higher ranking member of the order. The apprentice could very well hate his master, but serves him in recognition of his vows to the organization as opposed to serving the person themselves. My cohort in the Eberron game I'm currently playing in is a LE Artificer, she was written up as the younger sister to my character, an orthodox Mystic Theurge serving within the Cult of Vol (Necromancer cult for those unfamiliar with Eberron). She doesn't necessarily idolize my character, in fact, at times it is assumed she is plotting against me secretly. However, that is part of the fun, our goals are sympathetic currently and I provide very well for her in terms of resources and protection. That being said, I NEVER take her out adventuring, she is FAR too valuable building items and running the day to day operations of our group's headquarters. We have two other characters in the group with Leadership, both of them also leave their cohorts at the keep as well, it's simply more productive that way. In general, we go out and adventure, find treasure and resources, handle the diplomatic intrigue, and make sure that the cohorts have everything they need to excel in their work. Furthermore, our group is well balanced and is supplemented with undead minions, so the necessity of having the special cohort around to back you up while adventuring is greatly reduced. Anyhow, I've rambled on this a bit longer than I intended to, but I think you get the point, cohorts can be used in many different ways. Simply relegating them to adventuring sidekick status isn't always the best way to put their abilities to work, especially for an Artificer, who is going to do their best work while sitting at home.
cultjake 09-17-04, 02:16 AM	Bards are always a solid Cohort choice. They like to hang around with heroes to gain tales, and they're *the* support class.
JRedGiant 09-17-04, 02:43 AM	Darkcraft or anything else from BoVD is not an option, as Cardiff is Lawful Good, exalted and has paladins telling him to loosen up some times. Having to kill my own cohort when I find him sacrificing people doesn't sound like "optimization". :) The more I look at it the more I like the Marshall 4/Bard build. The 4 levels of Marshall let me recoup my loss of Greater Spell Penetration with the overcome SR aura. That one's situational at best, so I can also go with either the charging damage or (more likely with all the melee types) flanking damage aura. In fact, it'll definetely be the flanking...hello Summon Monster. The bard gives me all the healing this party really needs, UMD and a face man, which this party definetely needs. Plus it's all support and just makes the melee characters better...so everyone has more fun. Except the DM. He cries in his beer. :D
Gruulgrul 09-17-04, 03:09 AM	Where is Ledgendary Tactician from? I checked the PrC indexes and couldn't find it... Thanks, Mike
mostholycerebus 09-17-04, 02:44 PM	Dragonlance Campaign Setting. It's similar to the Warchanter, but cooler IMO. It's also generic enough to be played in pretty much any setting, unlike the Knights of Solamnia PrC's. The legendary Tactician eventually also gives your allies bonuses to AC when retreating, bonuses to hit when striking a retreating foe, the ability to make 2 saves vs Fear, and the ability to stay conscious up to -10hp. He also gets Direct Troops, similar to Inspire Courage but a Competence bonus so it stacks with your constant Inspire Courage. Overall a very fun class.