Best Crit Range Possible [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Crit Range Possible [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Atirakis
07-30-06, 01:55 PM I want to get my Crit Range as maxed as possible what classes/feats do I need to take?

Also whats the best way of increasing the multiplier?
DavidWL
07-30-06, 02:12 PM Disciple of Dispater (BoVD) & Nimblewright (MM2)

Best,
David
PhaedrusXY
07-30-06, 02:13 PM What you want to do is to optimally combine Psychic Weapon Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) with Disciple of Dispater (Book of Vile Darkness). It is hard to do, but I think it is possible. Also, I'm sure someone will argue that PWM has to use a crystal weapon, while DoD has to use a metal one. Somewhere it says that crystal weapons count as metal weapons.

This has been discussed numerous times on here, but I didn't save any links or builds, and don't have the details on hand. Sorry, you'll have to do the homework yourself. But hopefully that will get you started in the right direction. I think you can get something like a 10-20 crit with a Falchion, and increase the multiplier to x3 several times per day.
Khan the Destroyer
07-30-06, 02:17 PM Somewhere it says that crystal weapons count as metal weapons.
WHAT?!?!

Phaedrus, you have to remember where you read that.

.....

Actually, how can you get 8 levels of Disciple of Dispater and 7 levels of Psychic Weapon Master? I don't think it could work, even if crystal weapons counted as iron.
ksbsnowowl
07-30-06, 02:19 PM Be evil

Wield a falchion, scimitar, or similar weapon

Take Improved Crit

Become a Disciple of Dispator (BoVD)

Crit range of 11-20, or something along those lines; I don't have my books with me.

There are very few ways to up your crit multiplier.

Be a Deepwood Sniper, it ups the multiplier of bow and x-bows twice.
Thayan Gladiator ups the multiplier of a natural weapon once.
One of the PrC's in the back of Oriental Adventures ups the multiplier of a warhammer, club, or greatclub, by 1, IIRC.
Atirakis
07-30-06, 02:25 PM ok so far I got
use a weapon with 18-20
take improved crit for 16-20
this DoD class gives me what that increases this?
Khan the Destroyer
07-30-06, 02:26 PM I think with a falchion, the threat range would go:

Falchion: 18-20
Improved Critical: 15-20
Iron Power 1: 12-20
Iron Power 2: 9-20

Is that right? Each increase doubles the numbers that threaten a critical hit.

For the actual multiplier, the Maiming weapon enhancement can do this. It allows you to roll a dice based on your weapon's normal multiplier to replace it with a new multiplier. For example, when you crit with a maiming flachion, you would roll a d4 and use the result as your new crit multipler. Not bad considering you have a 75% chance to do the same damage or more.
Atirakis
07-30-06, 02:56 PM yeah thats right 15-20 with IC... Im dumb

Where is Maiming so I can read its description for myself. I have all the books.

Edit: I just checked out DoD and its nice for an NPC bad guy but I was kind of hoping for something I could show my players to help them out... Yeah Im a nice DM like that
cirathorn
07-30-06, 03:00 PM What book Has Iron Power in it?
NoldorForce
07-30-06, 03:33 PM Iron Power is (I believe, not having the BoVD) a class feature of the abovementioned Disciple of Dispater. The one that allows for an increased critical multiplier.Any weapon made of deep crystal costs 1,000 gp more than its noncrystal counterpart. Any item could potentially be made out of deep crystal. Because deep crystal armor is considered to be made out of metal, druids cannot wear it.
...
Weapons and armor made of mundane crystal cost the same amount to make as their masterwork counterparts. Any item could potentially be made with mundane crystal. Because mundane crystal armor is considered to be made out of metal, druids cannot wear it.
Khan the Destroyer
07-30-06, 03:37 PM Where is Maiming so I can read its description for myself. I have all the books.
Maiming is in the Miniature's Handbook.

x2, roll 1d4
x3, roll 1d6
x4, roll 1d8

NoldorForce, thanks for the SRD reference to deep crystal. I wonder if that would be enough to consider it iron though.
KieranBathgate
07-30-06, 03:45 PM Iron Power is a class ability that the Disciple of Dispater gets (Book of Vile Darkness, page 60)
Khan the Destroyer
07-30-06, 03:49 PM Edit: I just checked out DoD and its nice for an NPC bad guy but I was kind of hoping for something I could show my players to help them out... Yeah Im a nice DM like that
Then I believe the Psychic Weapon Master is the way to get the largest crit threat range.

Falchion: 18-20
Improved Critical: 15-20
PWM Improved Critical: 13-20

There is also a feat in Complete Psionics that allows you to automatically confirm a critical hit by expending your psionics focus. That's a 40% chance to automatically crit a foe.

EDIT: With the increased multiplier ability of the Psychic Weapon Master, you can bump the multiplier to x3. Then Maiming kicks in and allows you to roll 1d6 for the actual modifier (with a ~67% chance to do regular crit damage or more).
PhaedrusXY
07-30-06, 03:51 PM Actually, how can you get 8 levels of Disciple of Dispater and 7 levels of Psychic Weapon Master? I don't think it could work, even if crystal weapons counted as iron.You're right. I think I remembered it wrong. It is possible to use the Weapon Master (Oriental Adventures, Sword and Fist) combined with Disciple of Dispater. It is tricky to qualify for Weapon Master with only 5 levels of classes before it, but it is possible. I worked it out once (without Flaws).

This also makes the whole "does a crystal weapon count as iron?" thing a moot point.
There is also a feat in Complete Psionics that allows you to automatically confirm a critical hit by expending your psionics focus. That's a 40% chance to automatically crit a foe.You could also use Oils of Bless (or Curse) Weapon vs. Evil (or Good) opponents. Or get the enhancement from the Book of Exalted Deeds that gives it a permanent "Bless Weapon" effect.
Khan the Destroyer
07-30-06, 03:54 PM You're right. I think I remembered it wrong. It is possible to use the Weapon Master (Oriental Adventures, Sword and Fist) combined with Disciple of Dispater. It is tricky to qualify for Weapon Master with only 5 levels of classes before it, but it is possible. I worked it out once (without Flaws).
Weapon Master was updated to Exotic Weapon Master, believe it or not. I don't have the link to the page that shows all of the updates, but both the 3.0 Exotic Weapon Master and the 3.0 Weapon Master became the 3.5 Exotic Weapon Master.
PhaedrusXY
07-30-06, 03:57 PM Weapon Master was updated to Exotic Weapon Master, believe it or not. I don't have the link to the page that shows all of the updates, but both the 3.0 Exotic Weapon Master and the 3.0 Weapon Master became the 3.5 Exotic Weapon Master.I know that, but I think it is stupid.
Xyl
07-30-06, 05:45 PM Disciple of Dispater (BoVD) & Nimblewright (MM2)

Best,
David
People seem to be ignoring this... Nimblewright has a natural attack (a rapier, so it should count as iron or steel) with a threat range of 15-20. Disciple of Dispater triples it to 3-20. Adding Improved Critical would get you a threat range of -3-20. Yes, that's a threat range starting at negative three.
Mystic Ninja
07-30-06, 06:06 PM People seem to be ignoring this... Nimblewright has a natural attack (a rapier, so it should count as iron or steel) with a threat range of 15-20. Disciple of Dispater triples it to 3-20. Adding Improved Critical would get you a threat range of -3-20. Yes, that's a threat range starting at negative three.

Thats not entirely accurate. Nimblewright has a threat range of 12-20.

Anyone know its LA??
Xyl
07-30-06, 06:20 PM Duplicate post, sorry
Xyl
07-30-06, 06:20 PM Thats not entirely accurate. Nimblewright has a threat range of 12-20.

Anyone know its LA??
It was changed to 15-20 in the 3.5 update booklet. The LA is +6.
Reis
07-30-06, 06:33 PM greathorn minotaur hammer is far superior in terms of critical damage to great falchion or nimblewright. Unfortunately, I don't think it qualifies for use with Iron Power, since its made of a horn and all.
Pinky's brain
07-30-06, 06:48 PM The problem is that augmented critical is still an effect which increases threat range, as such it won't stack with improved critical (or jagged tooth or razorfangs).
Khan the Destroyer
07-30-06, 09:24 PM I know that, but I think it is stupid.
I wholeheartedly agree :D.
People seem to be ignoring this... Nimblewright has a natural attack (a rapier, so it should count as iron or steel) with a threat range of 15-20. Disciple of Dispater triples it to 3-20. Adding Improved Critical would get you a threat range of -3-20. Yes, that's a threat range starting at negative three.
The OP said no to Disciple of Dispater. And since Nimblewright has an ECL of 16, the character won't be able to get the Psychic Weapon Master's ability before epic levels.

As someone else already said, Improved Critical won't stack with the Nimblewright's Augmented Critical.
Pinky's brain
07-30-06, 09:41 PM Nimblewright is sucky anyway, to make it worth a damn you have to houserule it.

If you wanted to let the nimblewright use his rapiers as normal weapons you would have to houserule (they are natural weapons, which means no additional attacks from high BAB).

To make it work with the PSW you need even more houserules. To make his rapiers crystal requires a houserule. To let the nimblewright qualify for the threat extension from PSW without having the improved critical feat (which does nothing for the nimblewright) requires a houserule too.
Atirakis
07-30-06, 09:59 PM whats with the greathorn minotaur hammer? and where is it to be found?

Nimblewright would be just another npc Im afraid.

Physich Warrior seems to be the front runner but my players are a little shy when it comes to psionics, mostly because I never allowed them back in 2E.

Something was mentioned about a feat that lets sneak attack damage be multiplied on a crit... I think :thinks: anyways what is it called and where is it if anyone knows.
Khan the Destroyer
07-30-06, 10:11 PM whats with the greathorn minotaur hammer? and where is it to be found?
The Greathorn Hammer is in Monster Manual 4. It does x4 damage on a critical hit, and threatens on either a 19-20 or on a 20. There is a discrepency between the weapon description and the sample character. Most likely, it is 20/x4, since another weapon with similar stats got errata on it.
Physich Warrior seems to be the front runner but my players are a little shy when it comes to psionics, mostly because I never allowed them back in 2E.
Fair enough, but in defense of psionics, 3.5 psionics is a completely different beast ( this is what I hear anyways, I didn't play back in 2nd edition). What I can say is that I play 3.5 psionics, and I find the system to be very balanced. (Realistically, any system can be broken and abused, but as the DM, you have the power to stop all exploits.)
Something was mentioned about a feat that lets sneak attack damage be multiplied on a crit... I think :thinks: anyways what is it called and where is it if anyone knows.
This would be Telling Blow in Player's Handbook 2. It allows you to tack on your sneak attack damage on a critical hit. The sneak attack damage doesn't get multiplied though, just added on afterwards.
Necromas
07-30-06, 10:52 PM The best crit range without modifiers is a scythe weapon with reach in either eberron or fearun (cant remember) that has a 19-20/x4 crit range and multiplier.
NoldorForce
07-30-06, 11:08 PM The best crit range without modifiers is a scythe weapon with reach in either eberron or fearun [sic] (cant remember) that has a 19-20/x4 crit range and multiplier.You mean the Talenta sharrash from Eberron? WotC caught that early and errata'd it.The Talenta sharrash should have a critical threat range of 19–20/x2, not 19–20/x4.
Khan the Destroyer
07-30-06, 11:29 PM You mean the Talenta sharrash from Eberron? WotC caught that early and errata'd it.
This is the same weapon I was referring to as well. Given the discrepency between the different stats for the Greathorn Hammer, and the errata for the Sharrash, I would imagine that the hammer will either be 19-20/x2 or 20/x4.
Atirakis
07-31-06, 12:52 AM Oh I agree completly about 3.5 Psionics being way way way way better then 2E. I allow psionics without limit in my campaign now and have an entire civilization built around them. My players are just afraid of the water cause theyve never learned to swim if you get my analogy...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Atirakis 07-30-06, 01:55 PM	I want to get my Crit Range as maxed as possible what classes/feats do I need to take? Also whats the best way of increasing the multiplier?
DavidWL 07-30-06, 02:12 PM	Disciple of Dispater (BoVD) & Nimblewright (MM2) Best, David
PhaedrusXY 07-30-06, 02:13 PM	What you want to do is to optimally combine Psychic Weapon Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) with Disciple of Dispater (Book of Vile Darkness). It is hard to do, but I think it is possible. Also, I'm sure someone will argue that PWM has to use a crystal weapon, while DoD has to use a metal one. Somewhere it says that crystal weapons count as metal weapons. This has been discussed numerous times on here, but I didn't save any links or builds, and don't have the details on hand. Sorry, you'll have to do the homework yourself. But hopefully that will get you started in the right direction. I think you can get something like a 10-20 crit with a Falchion, and increase the multiplier to x3 several times per day.
Khan the Destroyer 07-30-06, 02:17 PM	Somewhere it says that crystal weapons count as metal weapons. WHAT?!?! Phaedrus, you have to remember where you read that. ..... Actually, how can you get 8 levels of Disciple of Dispater and 7 levels of Psychic Weapon Master? I don't think it could work, even if crystal weapons counted as iron.
ksbsnowowl 07-30-06, 02:19 PM	Be evil Wield a falchion, scimitar, or similar weapon Take Improved Crit Become a Disciple of Dispator (BoVD) Crit range of 11-20, or something along those lines; I don't have my books with me. There are very few ways to up your crit multiplier. Be a Deepwood Sniper, it ups the multiplier of bow and x-bows twice. Thayan Gladiator ups the multiplier of a natural weapon once. One of the PrC's in the back of Oriental Adventures ups the multiplier of a warhammer, club, or greatclub, by 1, IIRC.
Atirakis 07-30-06, 02:25 PM	ok so far I got use a weapon with 18-20 take improved crit for 16-20 this DoD class gives me what that increases this?
Khan the Destroyer 07-30-06, 02:26 PM	I think with a falchion, the threat range would go: Falchion: 18-20 Improved Critical: 15-20 Iron Power 1: 12-20 Iron Power 2: 9-20 Is that right? Each increase doubles the numbers that threaten a critical hit. For the actual multiplier, the Maiming weapon enhancement can do this. It allows you to roll a dice based on your weapon's normal multiplier to replace it with a new multiplier. For example, when you crit with a maiming flachion, you would roll a d4 and use the result as your new crit multipler. Not bad considering you have a 75% chance to do the same damage or more.
Atirakis 07-30-06, 02:56 PM	yeah thats right 15-20 with IC... Im dumb Where is Maiming so I can read its description for myself. I have all the books. Edit: I just checked out DoD and its nice for an NPC bad guy but I was kind of hoping for something I could show my players to help them out... Yeah Im a nice DM like that
cirathorn 07-30-06, 03:00 PM	What book Has Iron Power in it?
NoldorForce 07-30-06, 03:33 PM	Iron Power is (I believe, not having the BoVD) a class feature of the abovementioned Disciple of Dispater. The one that allows for an increased critical multiplier.Any weapon made of deep crystal costs 1,000 gp more than its noncrystal counterpart. Any item could potentially be made out of deep crystal. Because deep crystal armor is considered to be made out of metal, druids cannot wear it. ... Weapons and armor made of mundane crystal cost the same amount to make as their masterwork counterparts. Any item could potentially be made with mundane crystal. Because mundane crystal armor is considered to be made out of metal, druids cannot wear it.
Khan the Destroyer 07-30-06, 03:37 PM	Where is Maiming so I can read its description for myself. I have all the books. Maiming is in the Miniature's Handbook. x2, roll 1d4 x3, roll 1d6 x4, roll 1d8 NoldorForce, thanks for the SRD reference to deep crystal. I wonder if that would be enough to consider it iron though.
KieranBathgate 07-30-06, 03:45 PM	Iron Power is a class ability that the Disciple of Dispater gets (Book of Vile Darkness, page 60)
Khan the Destroyer 07-30-06, 03:49 PM	Edit: I just checked out DoD and its nice for an NPC bad guy but I was kind of hoping for something I could show my players to help them out... Yeah Im a nice DM like that Then I believe the Psychic Weapon Master is the way to get the largest crit threat range. Falchion: 18-20 Improved Critical: 15-20 PWM Improved Critical: 13-20 There is also a feat in Complete Psionics that allows you to automatically confirm a critical hit by expending your psionics focus. That's a 40% chance to automatically crit a foe. EDIT: With the increased multiplier ability of the Psychic Weapon Master, you can bump the multiplier to x3. Then Maiming kicks in and allows you to roll 1d6 for the actual modifier (with a ~67% chance to do regular crit damage or more).
PhaedrusXY 07-30-06, 03:51 PM	Actually, how can you get 8 levels of Disciple of Dispater and 7 levels of Psychic Weapon Master? I don't think it could work, even if crystal weapons counted as iron.You're right. I think I remembered it wrong. It is possible to use the Weapon Master (Oriental Adventures, Sword and Fist) combined with Disciple of Dispater. It is tricky to qualify for Weapon Master with only 5 levels of classes before it, but it is possible. I worked it out once (without Flaws). This also makes the whole "does a crystal weapon count as iron?" thing a moot point. There is also a feat in Complete Psionics that allows you to automatically confirm a critical hit by expending your psionics focus. That's a 40% chance to automatically crit a foe.You could also use Oils of Bless (or Curse) Weapon vs. Evil (or Good) opponents. Or get the enhancement from the Book of Exalted Deeds that gives it a permanent "Bless Weapon" effect.
Khan the Destroyer 07-30-06, 03:54 PM	You're right. I think I remembered it wrong. It is possible to use the Weapon Master (Oriental Adventures, Sword and Fist) combined with Disciple of Dispater. It is tricky to qualify for Weapon Master with only 5 levels of classes before it, but it is possible. I worked it out once (without Flaws). Weapon Master was updated to Exotic Weapon Master, believe it or not. I don't have the link to the page that shows all of the updates, but both the 3.0 Exotic Weapon Master and the 3.0 Weapon Master became the 3.5 Exotic Weapon Master.
PhaedrusXY 07-30-06, 03:57 PM	Weapon Master was updated to Exotic Weapon Master, believe it or not. I don't have the link to the page that shows all of the updates, but both the 3.0 Exotic Weapon Master and the 3.0 Weapon Master became the 3.5 Exotic Weapon Master.I know that, but I think it is stupid.
Xyl 07-30-06, 05:45 PM	Disciple of Dispater (BoVD) & Nimblewright (MM2) Best, David People seem to be ignoring this... Nimblewright has a natural attack (a rapier, so it should count as iron or steel) with a threat range of 15-20. Disciple of Dispater triples it to 3-20. Adding Improved Critical would get you a threat range of -3-20. Yes, that's a threat range starting at negative three.
Mystic Ninja 07-30-06, 06:06 PM	People seem to be ignoring this... Nimblewright has a natural attack (a rapier, so it should count as iron or steel) with a threat range of 15-20. Disciple of Dispater triples it to 3-20. Adding Improved Critical would get you a threat range of -3-20. Yes, that's a threat range starting at negative three. Thats not entirely accurate. Nimblewright has a threat range of 12-20. Anyone know its LA??
Xyl 07-30-06, 06:20 PM	Duplicate post, sorry
Xyl 07-30-06, 06:20 PM	Thats not entirely accurate. Nimblewright has a threat range of 12-20. Anyone know its LA?? It was changed to 15-20 in the 3.5 update booklet. The LA is +6.
Reis 07-30-06, 06:33 PM	greathorn minotaur hammer is far superior in terms of critical damage to great falchion or nimblewright. Unfortunately, I don't think it qualifies for use with Iron Power, since its made of a horn and all.
Pinky's brain 07-30-06, 06:48 PM	The problem is that augmented critical is still an effect which increases threat range, as such it won't stack with improved critical (or jagged tooth or razorfangs).
Khan the Destroyer 07-30-06, 09:24 PM	I know that, but I think it is stupid. I wholeheartedly agree :D. People seem to be ignoring this... Nimblewright has a natural attack (a rapier, so it should count as iron or steel) with a threat range of 15-20. Disciple of Dispater triples it to 3-20. Adding Improved Critical would get you a threat range of -3-20. Yes, that's a threat range starting at negative three. The OP said no to Disciple of Dispater. And since Nimblewright has an ECL of 16, the character won't be able to get the Psychic Weapon Master's ability before epic levels. As someone else already said, Improved Critical won't stack with the Nimblewright's Augmented Critical.
Pinky's brain 07-30-06, 09:41 PM	Nimblewright is sucky anyway, to make it worth a damn you have to houserule it. If you wanted to let the nimblewright use his rapiers as normal weapons you would have to houserule (they are natural weapons, which means no additional attacks from high BAB). To make it work with the PSW you need even more houserules. To make his rapiers crystal requires a houserule. To let the nimblewright qualify for the threat extension from PSW without having the improved critical feat (which does nothing for the nimblewright) requires a houserule too.
Atirakis 07-30-06, 09:59 PM	whats with the greathorn minotaur hammer? and where is it to be found? Nimblewright would be just another npc Im afraid. Physich Warrior seems to be the front runner but my players are a little shy when it comes to psionics, mostly because I never allowed them back in 2E. Something was mentioned about a feat that lets sneak attack damage be multiplied on a crit... I think :thinks: anyways what is it called and where is it if anyone knows.
Khan the Destroyer 07-30-06, 10:11 PM	whats with the greathorn minotaur hammer? and where is it to be found? The Greathorn Hammer is in Monster Manual 4. It does x4 damage on a critical hit, and threatens on either a 19-20 or on a 20. There is a discrepency between the weapon description and the sample character. Most likely, it is 20/x4, since another weapon with similar stats got errata on it. Physich Warrior seems to be the front runner but my players are a little shy when it comes to psionics, mostly because I never allowed them back in 2E. Fair enough, but in defense of psionics, 3.5 psionics is a completely different beast ( this is what I hear anyways, I didn't play back in 2nd edition). What I can say is that I play 3.5 psionics, and I find the system to be very balanced. (Realistically, any system can be broken and abused, but as the DM, you have the power to stop all exploits.) Something was mentioned about a feat that lets sneak attack damage be multiplied on a crit... I think :thinks: anyways what is it called and where is it if anyone knows. This would be Telling Blow in Player's Handbook 2. It allows you to tack on your sneak attack damage on a critical hit. The sneak attack damage doesn't get multiplied though, just added on afterwards.
Necromas 07-30-06, 10:52 PM	The best crit range without modifiers is a scythe weapon with reach in either eberron or fearun (cant remember) that has a 19-20/x4 crit range and multiplier.
NoldorForce 07-30-06, 11:08 PM	The best crit range without modifiers is a scythe weapon with reach in either eberron or fearun [sic] (cant remember) that has a 19-20/x4 crit range and multiplier.You mean the Talenta sharrash from Eberron? WotC caught that early and errata'd it.The Talenta sharrash should have a critical threat range of 19–20/x2, not 19–20/x4.
Khan the Destroyer 07-30-06, 11:29 PM	You mean the Talenta sharrash from Eberron? WotC caught that early and errata'd it. This is the same weapon I was referring to as well. Given the discrepency between the different stats for the Greathorn Hammer, and the errata for the Sharrash, I would imagine that the hammer will either be 19-20/x2 or 20/x4.
Atirakis 07-31-06, 12:52 AM	Oh I agree completly about 3.5 Psionics being way way way way better then 2E. I allow psionics without limit in my campaign now and have an entire civilization built around them. My players are just afraid of the water cause theyve never learned to swim if you get my analogy...