Best Defence Fighter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Defence Fighter [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Khudere
04-24-05, 12:14 AM Does anyone know a good way to build up a HP / Defence Fighter?
lokkesmadr
04-24-05, 12:29 AM Yes, several. I like Psychic Warriors, for example
Khudere
04-24-05, 12:38 AM I'll have to look up the stats on the Psychic warrior then, thanks :D

Any other defence sudjestions?
lokkesmadr
04-24-05, 12:51 AM Thralls of Demogorgon with many, many instances of the Roll With It feat? That's DR 20/-, I think.
allenchan
04-24-05, 12:56 AM A simple deepwarden/dwarven defender with imp. combat expertise. Truely a meat wall at its finest.
Khudere
04-24-05, 01:12 AM I was actually hoping to tie it into this character...

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=418309[

I was looking at the dwarven defender and was hoping to keep away from a PRC.
PhaedrusXY
04-24-05, 03:00 AM There is a prestige class that has an identical ability to the Dwarven Defender's defensive stance in the Silver Marches book, but it doesn't require you to be a dwarf. It is called the Hordebreaker, and I like it alot better in some ways. The prereqs are much more useful, and it's only 5 levels long. The main downside is you only get one Defensive Stance per day.
Lobo13
04-24-05, 03:03 AM -If you wanna kinda-sorta cheat, you could go for a level of cancer mage from the Book of Kinda Naughtiness, get that Nat AC disease for a couple months and have some very calloused skin...

or perhaps take the feat ( i believe SS is where it be, it may be that roll with it mentioned above) that gives you DR 2/- as many times as you wanna take the feat, pre-reqs are the toughness feat and a Con Score of 20, easy to get in a couple of levels...

Now, if you wanna do it the vanilla no-dm-can-say-no-unless-they-don't-like-you kinda way, you have a couple options. But we're gonna have to know what level you're starting at, what's allowed, etc. to give you more focused advice:

1. Be a monk. or, at least, a character with points stuck into Dex and Wis and go Monk's Belt when you can afford. The Wis bonus sticks with you against touch attacks as well, which just makes me cry in a good way. add in levels of the dragonslayer PrC (i think that's the one) from Draconomicon to get innate energy resistance and some DR, supplement with magic items and you can be untouchable.

2. Did i say be a monk? seriously, about the simplest way to get your defense up is to not let the bad guys touch you. Which is where a spiked chain comes in to save the day. Any item with reach will work really, but the chain is the best. Trip and/or disarm them so they don't get to hit ya, you won't even have to worry about armor at all. There are cheesy min/max builds for chain fighters here on the boards, but even if you just get to use the PHB as material, take all your emphasis in character choices as tot he chain and y ou'll be filled with schoolgirl-ish giggle fits every time you make the bad men go boom.

Lobo13, with a Troll's view on the world, saying giggle fits are da bomb.
NateNate
04-24-05, 10:48 AM Some of the best AC builds are built around Cha, IMO. Start with Cobra-Strike Monk and go nonlawful into Bard, or use a Chaos Gnome and take Sorcerer instead of Bard. Once you have second level spells take Ascetic Mage. Get three levels in Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) and use Dextrous Attack with two-handed Power Attacks. If you're evil, take thee levels of Blackguard and then one level of Mystic Wanderer. If you're not evil, go Cleric into Prestige Paladin of Freedom and then take Mystic Wanderer. Take Divine Might to get your Cha bonus to damage as well.

It works best if you use Gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) as the base creature. It gets an awesome Cha boost plus your Cha bonus to AC and saves an additional time. Plus you can take the Improved Maneuverability feat to have a Perfect fly speed, so not much should even be able to reach you.

I keep thinking I'm missing something, because I remember being able to get Cha to AC seven times in a hypothetical build conversation with a friend last week. I think it included the Saint template, plus a few other tricks. If you can find the "X bonus to Y stat" thread you'll be able to find what I've forgotten.
Khudere
04-24-05, 11:53 AM There is a prestige class that has an identical ability to the Dwarven Defender's defensive stance in the Silver Marches book, but it doesn't require you to be a dwarf. It is called the Hordebreaker, and I like it alot better in some ways. The prereqs are much more useful, and it's only 5 levels long. The main downside is you only get one Defensive Stance per day.

I'll have to go find this book now. I like the defensive stance, but I was looking more for the damage reduction and improved uncanny dodge. But I its good to know theres a good PRC like that, and doesn't have a race requirment.

1. Be a monk. or, at least, a character with points stuck into Dex and Wis and go Monk's Belt when you can afford. The Wis bonus sticks with you against touch attacks as well, which just makes me cry in a good way. add in levels of the dragonslayer PrC (i think that's the one) from Draconomicon to get innate energy resistance and some DR, supplement with magic items and you can be untouchable.

2. Did i say be a monk? seriously, about the simplest way to get your defense up is to not let the bad guys touch you. Which is where a spiked chain comes in to save the day. Any item with reach will work really, but the chain is the best. Trip and/or disarm them so they don't get to hit ya, you won't even have to worry about armor at all. There are cheesy min/max builds for chain fighters here on the boards, but even if you just get to use the PHB as material, take all your emphasis in character choices as tot he chain and y ou'll be filled with schoolgirl-ish giggle fits every time you make the bad men go boom.

I never even thought about making a monk, and I think thats a great idea. I don't know about #2 though, it might actually fit into my character because he doesn't want to go striaght out and kill people and trip would be an awsome idea.

The AC bonuses for monk are looking a lot better, but I still want to have some good plate armor on me.

Some of the best AC builds are built around Cha, IMO. Start with Cobra-Strike Monk and go nonlawful into Bard, or use a Chaos Gnome and take Sorcerer instead of Bard. Once you have second level spells take Ascetic Mage. Get three levels in Arcane Duelist and use Dextrous Attack with two-handed Power Attacks. If you're evil, take thee levels of Blackguard and then one level of Mystic Wanderer. If you're not evil, go Cleric into Prestige Paladin of Freedom and then take Mystic Wanderer. Take Divine Might to get your Cha bonus to damage as well.

It works best if you use Gloura as the base creature. It gets an awesome Cha boost plus your Cha bonus to AC and saves an additional time. Plus you can take the Improved Maneuverability feat to have a Perfect fly speed, so not much should even be able to reach you.

I keep thinking I'm missing something, because I remember being able to get Cha to AC seven times in a hypothetical build conversation with a friend last week. I think it included the Saint template, plus a few other tricks. If you can find the "X bonus to Y stat" thread you'll be able to find what I've forgotten.

From the looks of things Iam really going to have to have to look into making a CHA based DEF Gnome. I like the idea of working other classes and PRC levels, but now your making me look this all up ;)

Making a Gloura would mean changing my story; which iam fine with, but I don't know if the DM will allow the class inside the game yet.
Zyme86
04-24-05, 01:17 PM Dwarf ECL 20
Dwarven paragon 3(UA?)/fight 8/Deepwarden 2(RoS)/Dwarven defender1/ Battlesmith 4(RoS)/Dragon Deciple1/?1
Con 42(18+2race+2paragon+5lev+5book+6amulet+ 4def) +16

AC= 128 (10+17arm+9shield+16con+5def g.axe+5def arm spikes+5def shi spike+5ring o/pro+5cloak of insight+5helmit of luck+5phalactery of sacred+5 robe of profane+1nat arm+5amulet of nat arm+2self crafted armour+3h.arm optmization+25dodge)

armour:tripple plate (3.5wepons and armour)
Shield: spiked t.shield
Wep +5def gaxe
+5def arm spikes
+5def she spikes

Feats
heavy arm opt
i heavy arm opt
combat expertise
i combat expertise
endurense
wep focus armour spikes
axe spike
twf
Khudere
04-24-05, 11:14 PM AC= 128

Damn, thats some nice AC. Now to make it some how work for my gnome build.

A few questions.

1) Is self crafted a bonus you gain when you craft the armor yourself... like the name sudjests? If so is it in the DMG?

2)+5 def with spikes? Is that with the feats wep focus armour spikes,
and axe spike?

3) and where did optmization +25dodge come from?
Sir Ringe
04-25-05, 02:17 AM Dwarf ECL 20
Dwarven paragon 3(UA?)/fight 8/Deepwarden 2(RoS)/Dwarven defender1/ Battlesmith 4(RoS)/Dragon Deciple1/?1

Am I blind? I can't find where you get the spontaneous arcane caster required for Dragon Disciple.
cheatlord
04-25-05, 08:07 AM Dwarf ECL 20
Dwarven paragon 3(UA?)/fight 8/Deepwarden 2(RoS)/Dwarven defender1/ Battlesmith 4(RoS)/Dragon Deciple1/?1
Con 42(18+2race+2paragon+5lev+5book+6amulet+ 4def) +16

AC= 128 (10+17arm+9shield+16con+5def g.axe+5def arm spikes+5def shi spike+5ring o/pro+5cloak of insight+5helmit of luck+5phalactery of sacred+5 robe of profane+1nat arm+5amulet of nat arm+2self crafted armour+3h.arm optmization+25dodge)

armour:tripple plate (3.5wepons and armour)
Shield: spiked t.shield
Wep +5def gaxe
+5def arm spikes
+5def she spikes

Feats
heavy arm opt
i heavy arm opt
combat expertise
i combat expertise
endurense
wep focus armour spikes
axe spike
twf

What exactly is a Triple Plate ? Which book?
Lord Arkhaven
04-25-05, 10:26 AM I have enjoyed playing a Dwarf Fighter 8/Dwarven Defender 9 whose Hit Points and Armour Class are the envy of the party. The build isn't optimized but well rounded.

Get a 16 Dex. and wear Mythril Full Plate. Applicable defense feats are Dodge which leads to Titan Fighting (RoS) which lets you use your racaial Giant AC bonus against any large creature you designate as your dodge opponent for another +4 AC.

With Defensive Stance going your AC will top 55 and that's before a bunch of wonky home-brew magic items.
Zyme86
04-25-05, 10:59 AM Starting at the top

Khudere
1) The self craft bonus is from the battle smith class(RoS)
2) those are +5defending armour spikes
3)4 comes from DD, 20 comes from improved combat expertise, and one from dodge(not listed)

Sir Ringe, you right that does lower it by one, I cant take dragon diciple, but I can add a level of mindblade and take focused shield and invest armour(both RoS to add another +4[tot+3]

Cheat lord, as I noted it is from the 3.5 wepons and armor guide

Lord Arhaven
Nothing's waky homebrew, I followed the rules from pricing objects in the DMG.

I can also hav permancy reduce for an additional +1 as a size mod

Upated feat selection
1Endurence
1fcombat expertise
2fWepon focus warhammer
3Dodge
4fHeavy armour optmization
5Improved combat expertise
6fwepon focus aromour spikes
9heavy armour optmization
12 axespike
15 Focused shield
18 Invest armour

I still had 130k gp to work with whit the build, now 128k with the reduce person permancy
Khudere
04-25-05, 11:12 AM I know iam a newb, but what does RoS stand for?

And thanks for explaining even more :D
Zyme86
04-25-05, 05:41 PM I know iam a newb, but what does RoS stand for?

And thanks for explaining even more :D
Races of Stone (RoS)
Khudere
04-26-05, 01:52 AM Thanks Zyme86 I'll deff. be looking that all up now.
Hiten
04-26-05, 02:13 AM Another good character idea from OA is fighter2/samurai2/monk3/iaijitsu master10/psion3,.
Add Dex, wis, and Int to AC, will also add Cha to Init. plus when you start combat you can get iaijitsu strikes off and deal mega damage on the first round of combat. even if DM throws undead and constructs Iaijitsu attacks still work. with a 16 cha you could be dealing 1d10+(str)+10d6+30, and thats without any enchantments. if you want to further cheese this out, use your psion levels to get the Psychic Weapon, and Deep impact feat to have your Iaijitsu strikes Hit them as touch attacks. And now for the uber cheese, Pick up the Blurring(i think, its the +2 bonus on weapons that lets you get first attack a round on them flat footed)
Deep impact+Blurring weapon=opponent getting about a 10 ac, 20 if your DM gave them HUGE amounts of deflection bonuses and such.
Khudere
04-26-05, 05:17 AM I pritty much want to figure out a few layouts for my character and have them beside me before the campaign starts so I can pick up what i can during game play. I don't expect ever to be given all the PRCs or all of the items, but just knowing helps me understand whats posiable.
Otto the Bugbear
04-26-05, 07:00 AM Lord Arhaven
Nothing's waky homebrew, I followed the rules from pricing objects in the DMG.

Upated feat selection
1Endurence
1fcombat expertise
2fWepon focus warhammer
3Dodge
4fHeavy armour optmization
5Improved combat expertise
6fwepon focus aromour spikes
9heavy armour optmization
12 axespike
15 Focused shield
18 Invest armour

Good job. I did one a few weeks back, but thic certainly tops mine.

However, there are a few things you need to change for this to work.

1. You have to attack with the defending weapon in question to gain the bonus to AC. You'll need to add at least TWF and ITWF in there. You'll also need Improved Sheild Bash to allow you to both attack with the spikey shield and to keep its shield bonus to AC.
2. Read armor spikes. When using them they grant the user the ability to make ONE off-hand attack. Razor Armor from Underdark is what you'll want to use, it has no such restriction for a comparable cost. With all that gold left over, that's an easy fix.
3. "Wonky custom items" is just the way many people will describe all the custom items you used. The +5sacred, +5 profane, +5 insight, etc. aren't found in the books, therefore they get the term 'wonky' attached to them. Most people don't take such items too seriously.
4. You took Heavy Armor Optimization twice.
5. You can't put spikes on a buckler or tower shield.
6. Many arguements point to the Deepwarden's con bonus to AC being restricted by an armor's max dex. Since there's been no ruling on this as of yet, I'm not going to get into that arguement. I'd just note what the AC is using both interpretations to keep the wolves at bay.

Cheers

Otto :)
Lord Arkhaven
04-26-05, 09:45 AM Most people play with DMs who don't let the players sit down and buy anything that enters their pretty little head just because the DMG gives guidelines to price it. Builds therefore usually don't include them because anyone can add +30 or more to any attribute going this route. It's usually best to post a 'vanilla' build with the rules and magic items as written.

From there, and in actual play, unusual or even unique items pop up from time to time. The Dwarven Defender I mentioned above is in possession of a Great Helm. This rare and nifty item provides a +1 AC bonus that stacks with armour and shields, plus its enchantable. So far I have it up to +4. That's a great +5 bonus to AC plus it looks cool, but you won't catch me posting it in the build because other DMs may not allow it.
Zyme86
04-26-05, 11:06 AM Swap the T.shield for an Extreme Shield(RoS) and swap out invest armour or deflective armour(likely deflective) for shield bash
Xperiment
04-26-05, 05:46 PM Just play a halfling monk 20 for complete core(requires an arcanist buffer). Break down below:

Armor: +8 (Bracers of Armor +8)
Shield: +4 (Shield Spell)
Dex: +13 (36 Dex)
Size: +2 (Reduce Size on Halfling)
Natural Armor: +5 (Amulet of N.A. +5)
Deflection: +5 (Ring of Protection +5)
Misc: +19 (Monk AC Bonus + monk's Belt [25th level monk])

Total: 66=10+8+4+13+2+5+5+19
Flat-Footed: 53
Touch: 49
*Note: This is also without any ASF, so pretty easily done by a level 20 arcanist as well.

Dex 36 (+13)=18+2 racial+5(tome)+6(enhance)+5(wishes)
Wis 39 (+14)=18+5(levels)+5(tome)+6(enhance)+5( wishes)

Assumes your DM rules Wishes stack with tomes... if not drop by +5 points.

Not the best, but it works...
X
Zyme86
04-26-05, 06:22 PM tomes never stacks with wished, they give the same bonus
DM Denubis
04-26-05, 06:24 PM Why would Wishes stack with tomes? They're both an inherent bonus.
Otto the Bugbear
04-26-05, 07:38 PM Swap the T.shield for an Extreme Shield(RoS) and swap out invest armour or deflective armour(likely deflective) for shield bash

Good fixes so far. Now about that TWF/ITWF issue. Seems I remembered it wrongly. You can just hold them, but you take all penalties associated with two weapon fighting. This basically amounts to a HUGE penalty to your attack rolls with that character. But, with that improved combat expertise and fighting defensively your AB is already in the hole. (I'll just assume that switch to razor armor will be made due to the limiting text of armor spikes.)

edit: for your convenience.

Do you have to actively wield a weapon of defending to
use its power? Or could you hold a longsword of defending
in your left hand, not use it to attack (so you are not
actually using the two weapons) and still wield a sword in
your right hand without penalties? Or is the defending
bonus considered part of the normal parrying that happens
in the background?
Using a weapon of defending works just like the Expertise
feat. (You have to use an attack or full attack action.) You can�t
use the weapon like a shield; if you hold the weapon in your off
hand and claim an Armor Class bonus for it, you take all the
penalties for fighting with two weapons, even if you don�t
actually attack with the weapon.

Cheers

Otto :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Khudere 04-24-05, 12:14 AM	Does anyone know a good way to build up a HP / Defence Fighter?
lokkesmadr 04-24-05, 12:29 AM	Yes, several. I like Psychic Warriors, for example
Khudere 04-24-05, 12:38 AM	I'll have to look up the stats on the Psychic warrior then, thanks :D Any other defence sudjestions?
lokkesmadr 04-24-05, 12:51 AM	Thralls of Demogorgon with many, many instances of the Roll With It feat? That's DR 20/-, I think.
allenchan 04-24-05, 12:56 AM	A simple deepwarden/dwarven defender with imp. combat expertise. Truely a meat wall at its finest.
Khudere 04-24-05, 01:12 AM	I was actually hoping to tie it into this character... http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=418309[ I was looking at the dwarven defender and was hoping to keep away from a PRC.
PhaedrusXY 04-24-05, 03:00 AM	There is a prestige class that has an identical ability to the Dwarven Defender's defensive stance in the Silver Marches book, but it doesn't require you to be a dwarf. It is called the Hordebreaker, and I like it alot better in some ways. The prereqs are much more useful, and it's only 5 levels long. The main downside is you only get one Defensive Stance per day.
Lobo13 04-24-05, 03:03 AM	-If you wanna kinda-sorta cheat, you could go for a level of cancer mage from the Book of Kinda Naughtiness, get that Nat AC disease for a couple months and have some very calloused skin... or perhaps take the feat ( i believe SS is where it be, it may be that roll with it mentioned above) that gives you DR 2/- as many times as you wanna take the feat, pre-reqs are the toughness feat and a Con Score of 20, easy to get in a couple of levels... Now, if you wanna do it the vanilla no-dm-can-say-no-unless-they-don't-like-you kinda way, you have a couple options. But we're gonna have to know what level you're starting at, what's allowed, etc. to give you more focused advice: 1. Be a monk. or, at least, a character with points stuck into Dex and Wis and go Monk's Belt when you can afford. The Wis bonus sticks with you against touch attacks as well, which just makes me cry in a good way. add in levels of the dragonslayer PrC (i think that's the one) from Draconomicon to get innate energy resistance and some DR, supplement with magic items and you can be untouchable. 2. Did i say be a monk? seriously, about the simplest way to get your defense up is to not let the bad guys touch you. Which is where a spiked chain comes in to save the day. Any item with reach will work really, but the chain is the best. Trip and/or disarm them so they don't get to hit ya, you won't even have to worry about armor at all. There are cheesy min/max builds for chain fighters here on the boards, but even if you just get to use the PHB as material, take all your emphasis in character choices as tot he chain and y ou'll be filled with schoolgirl-ish giggle fits every time you make the bad men go boom. Lobo13, with a Troll's view on the world, saying giggle fits are da bomb.
NateNate 04-24-05, 10:48 AM	Some of the best AC builds are built around Cha, IMO. Start with Cobra-Strike Monk and go nonlawful into Bard, or use a Chaos Gnome and take Sorcerer instead of Bard. Once you have second level spells take Ascetic Mage. Get three levels in Arcane Duelist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20030224a) and use Dextrous Attack with two-handed Power Attacks. If you're evil, take thee levels of Blackguard and then one level of Mystic Wanderer. If you're not evil, go Cleric into Prestige Paladin of Freedom and then take Mystic Wanderer. Take Divine Might to get your Cha bonus to damage as well. It works best if you use Gloura (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) as the base creature. It gets an awesome Cha boost plus your Cha bonus to AC and saves an additional time. Plus you can take the Improved Maneuverability feat to have a Perfect fly speed, so not much should even be able to reach you. I keep thinking I'm missing something, because I remember being able to get Cha to AC seven times in a hypothetical build conversation with a friend last week. I think it included the Saint template, plus a few other tricks. If you can find the "X bonus to Y stat" thread you'll be able to find what I've forgotten.
Khudere 04-24-05, 11:53 AM	There is a prestige class that has an identical ability to the Dwarven Defender's defensive stance in the Silver Marches book, but it doesn't require you to be a dwarf. It is called the Hordebreaker, and I like it alot better in some ways. The prereqs are much more useful, and it's only 5 levels long. The main downside is you only get one Defensive Stance per day. I'll have to go find this book now. I like the defensive stance, but I was looking more for the damage reduction and improved uncanny dodge. But I its good to know theres a good PRC like that, and doesn't have a race requirment. 1. Be a monk. or, at least, a character with points stuck into Dex and Wis and go Monk's Belt when you can afford. The Wis bonus sticks with you against touch attacks as well, which just makes me cry in a good way. add in levels of the dragonslayer PrC (i think that's the one) from Draconomicon to get innate energy resistance and some DR, supplement with magic items and you can be untouchable. 2. Did i say be a monk? seriously, about the simplest way to get your defense up is to not let the bad guys touch you. Which is where a spiked chain comes in to save the day. Any item with reach will work really, but the chain is the best. Trip and/or disarm them so they don't get to hit ya, you won't even have to worry about armor at all. There are cheesy min/max builds for chain fighters here on the boards, but even if you just get to use the PHB as material, take all your emphasis in character choices as tot he chain and y ou'll be filled with schoolgirl-ish giggle fits every time you make the bad men go boom. I never even thought about making a monk, and I think thats a great idea. I don't know about #2 though, it might actually fit into my character because he doesn't want to go striaght out and kill people and trip would be an awsome idea. The AC bonuses for monk are looking a lot better, but I still want to have some good plate armor on me. Some of the best AC builds are built around Cha, IMO. Start with Cobra-Strike Monk and go nonlawful into Bard, or use a Chaos Gnome and take Sorcerer instead of Bard. Once you have second level spells take Ascetic Mage. Get three levels in Arcane Duelist and use Dextrous Attack with two-handed Power Attacks. If you're evil, take thee levels of Blackguard and then one level of Mystic Wanderer. If you're not evil, go Cleric into Prestige Paladin of Freedom and then take Mystic Wanderer. Take Divine Might to get your Cha bonus to damage as well. It works best if you use Gloura as the base creature. It gets an awesome Cha boost plus your Cha bonus to AC and saves an additional time. Plus you can take the Improved Maneuverability feat to have a Perfect fly speed, so not much should even be able to reach you. I keep thinking I'm missing something, because I remember being able to get Cha to AC seven times in a hypothetical build conversation with a friend last week. I think it included the Saint template, plus a few other tricks. If you can find the "X bonus to Y stat" thread you'll be able to find what I've forgotten. From the looks of things Iam really going to have to have to look into making a CHA based DEF Gnome. I like the idea of working other classes and PRC levels, but now your making me look this all up ;) Making a Gloura would mean changing my story; which iam fine with, but I don't know if the DM will allow the class inside the game yet.
Zyme86 04-24-05, 01:17 PM	Dwarf ECL 20 Dwarven paragon 3(UA?)/fight 8/Deepwarden 2(RoS)/Dwarven defender1/ Battlesmith 4(RoS)/Dragon Deciple1/?1 Con 42(18+2race+2paragon+5lev+5book+6amulet+ 4def) +16 AC= 128 (10+17arm+9shield+16con+5def g.axe+5def arm spikes+5def shi spike+5ring o/pro+5cloak of insight+5helmit of luck+5phalactery of sacred+5 robe of profane+1nat arm+5amulet of nat arm+2self crafted armour+3h.arm optmization+25dodge) armour:tripple plate (3.5wepons and armour) Shield: spiked t.shield Wep +5def gaxe +5def arm spikes +5def she spikes Feats heavy arm opt i heavy arm opt combat expertise i combat expertise endurense wep focus armour spikes axe spike twf
Khudere 04-24-05, 11:14 PM	AC= 128 Damn, thats some nice AC. Now to make it some how work for my gnome build. A few questions. 1) Is self crafted a bonus you gain when you craft the armor yourself... like the name sudjests? If so is it in the DMG? 2)+5 def with spikes? Is that with the feats wep focus armour spikes, and axe spike? 3) and where did optmization +25dodge come from?
Sir Ringe 04-25-05, 02:17 AM	Dwarf ECL 20 Dwarven paragon 3(UA?)/fight 8/Deepwarden 2(RoS)/Dwarven defender1/ Battlesmith 4(RoS)/Dragon Deciple1/?1 Am I blind? I can't find where you get the spontaneous arcane caster required for Dragon Disciple.
cheatlord 04-25-05, 08:07 AM	Dwarf ECL 20 Dwarven paragon 3(UA?)/fight 8/Deepwarden 2(RoS)/Dwarven defender1/ Battlesmith 4(RoS)/Dragon Deciple1/?1 Con 42(18+2race+2paragon+5lev+5book+6amulet+ 4def) +16 AC= 128 (10+17arm+9shield+16con+5def g.axe+5def arm spikes+5def shi spike+5ring o/pro+5cloak of insight+5helmit of luck+5phalactery of sacred+5 robe of profane+1nat arm+5amulet of nat arm+2self crafted armour+3h.arm optmization+25dodge) armour:tripple plate (3.5wepons and armour) Shield: spiked t.shield Wep +5def gaxe +5def arm spikes +5def she spikes Feats heavy arm opt i heavy arm opt combat expertise i combat expertise endurense wep focus armour spikes axe spike twf What exactly is a Triple Plate ? Which book?
Lord Arkhaven 04-25-05, 10:26 AM	I have enjoyed playing a Dwarf Fighter 8/Dwarven Defender 9 whose Hit Points and Armour Class are the envy of the party. The build isn't optimized but well rounded. Get a 16 Dex. and wear Mythril Full Plate. Applicable defense feats are Dodge which leads to Titan Fighting (RoS) which lets you use your racaial Giant AC bonus against any large creature you designate as your dodge opponent for another +4 AC. With Defensive Stance going your AC will top 55 and that's before a bunch of wonky home-brew magic items.
Zyme86 04-25-05, 10:59 AM	Starting at the top Khudere 1) The self craft bonus is from the battle smith class(RoS) 2) those are +5defending armour spikes 3)4 comes from DD, 20 comes from improved combat expertise, and one from dodge(not listed) Sir Ringe, you right that does lower it by one, I cant take dragon diciple, but I can add a level of mindblade and take focused shield and invest armour(both RoS to add another +4[tot+3] Cheat lord, as I noted it is from the 3.5 wepons and armor guide Lord Arhaven Nothing's waky homebrew, I followed the rules from pricing objects in the DMG. I can also hav permancy reduce for an additional +1 as a size mod Upated feat selection 1Endurence 1fcombat expertise 2fWepon focus warhammer 3Dodge 4fHeavy armour optmization 5Improved combat expertise 6fwepon focus aromour spikes 9heavy armour optmization 12 axespike 15 Focused shield 18 Invest armour I still had 130k gp to work with whit the build, now 128k with the reduce person permancy
Khudere 04-25-05, 11:12 AM	I know iam a newb, but what does RoS stand for? And thanks for explaining even more :D
Zyme86 04-25-05, 05:41 PM	I know iam a newb, but what does RoS stand for? And thanks for explaining even more :D Races of Stone (RoS)
Khudere 04-26-05, 01:52 AM	Thanks Zyme86 I'll deff. be looking that all up now.
Hiten 04-26-05, 02:13 AM	Another good character idea from OA is fighter2/samurai2/monk3/iaijitsu master10/psion3,. Add Dex, wis, and Int to AC, will also add Cha to Init. plus when you start combat you can get iaijitsu strikes off and deal mega damage on the first round of combat. even if DM throws undead and constructs Iaijitsu attacks still work. with a 16 cha you could be dealing 1d10+(str)+10d6+30, and thats without any enchantments. if you want to further cheese this out, use your psion levels to get the Psychic Weapon, and Deep impact feat to have your Iaijitsu strikes Hit them as touch attacks. And now for the uber cheese, Pick up the Blurring(i think, its the +2 bonus on weapons that lets you get first attack a round on them flat footed) Deep impact+Blurring weapon=opponent getting about a 10 ac, 20 if your DM gave them HUGE amounts of deflection bonuses and such.
Khudere 04-26-05, 05:17 AM	I pritty much want to figure out a few layouts for my character and have them beside me before the campaign starts so I can pick up what i can during game play. I don't expect ever to be given all the PRCs or all of the items, but just knowing helps me understand whats posiable.
Otto the Bugbear 04-26-05, 07:00 AM	Lord Arhaven Nothing's waky homebrew, I followed the rules from pricing objects in the DMG. Upated feat selection 1Endurence 1fcombat expertise 2fWepon focus warhammer 3Dodge 4fHeavy armour optmization 5Improved combat expertise 6fwepon focus aromour spikes 9heavy armour optmization 12 axespike 15 Focused shield 18 Invest armour Good job. I did one a few weeks back, but thic certainly tops mine. However, there are a few things you need to change for this to work. 1. You have to attack with the defending weapon in question to gain the bonus to AC. You'll need to add at least TWF and ITWF in there. You'll also need Improved Sheild Bash to allow you to both attack with the spikey shield and to keep its shield bonus to AC. 2. Read armor spikes. When using them they grant the user the ability to make ONE off-hand attack. Razor Armor from Underdark is what you'll want to use, it has no such restriction for a comparable cost. With all that gold left over, that's an easy fix. 3. "Wonky custom items" is just the way many people will describe all the custom items you used. The +5sacred, +5 profane, +5 insight, etc. aren't found in the books, therefore they get the term 'wonky' attached to them. Most people don't take such items too seriously. 4. You took Heavy Armor Optimization twice. 5. You can't put spikes on a buckler or tower shield. 6. Many arguements point to the Deepwarden's con bonus to AC being restricted by an armor's max dex. Since there's been no ruling on this as of yet, I'm not going to get into that arguement. I'd just note what the AC is using both interpretations to keep the wolves at bay. Cheers Otto :)
Lord Arkhaven 04-26-05, 09:45 AM	Most people play with DMs who don't let the players sit down and buy anything that enters their pretty little head just because the DMG gives guidelines to price it. Builds therefore usually don't include them because anyone can add +30 or more to any attribute going this route. It's usually best to post a 'vanilla' build with the rules and magic items as written. From there, and in actual play, unusual or even unique items pop up from time to time. The Dwarven Defender I mentioned above is in possession of a Great Helm. This rare and nifty item provides a +1 AC bonus that stacks with armour and shields, plus its enchantable. So far I have it up to +4. That's a great +5 bonus to AC plus it looks cool, but you won't catch me posting it in the build because other DMs may not allow it.
Zyme86 04-26-05, 11:06 AM	Swap the T.shield for an Extreme Shield(RoS) and swap out invest armour or deflective armour(likely deflective) for shield bash
Xperiment 04-26-05, 05:46 PM	Just play a halfling monk 20 for complete core(requires an arcanist buffer). Break down below: Armor: +8 (Bracers of Armor +8) Shield: +4 (Shield Spell) Dex: +13 (36 Dex) Size: +2 (Reduce Size on Halfling) Natural Armor: +5 (Amulet of N.A. +5) Deflection: +5 (Ring of Protection +5) Misc: +19 (Monk AC Bonus + monk's Belt [25th level monk]) Total: 66=10+8+4+13+2+5+5+19 Flat-Footed: 53 Touch: 49 *Note: This is also without any ASF, so pretty easily done by a level 20 arcanist as well. Dex 36 (+13)=18+2 racial+5(tome)+6(enhance)+5(wishes) Wis 39 (+14)=18+5(levels)+5(tome)+6(enhance)+5( wishes) Assumes your DM rules Wishes stack with tomes... if not drop by +5 points. Not the best, but it works... X
Zyme86 04-26-05, 06:22 PM	tomes never stacks with wished, they give the same bonus
DM Denubis 04-26-05, 06:24 PM	Why would Wishes stack with tomes? They're both an inherent bonus.
Otto the Bugbear 04-26-05, 07:38 PM	Swap the T.shield for an Extreme Shield(RoS) and swap out invest armour or deflective armour(likely deflective) for shield bash Good fixes so far. Now about that TWF/ITWF issue. Seems I remembered it wrongly. You can just hold them, but you take all penalties associated with two weapon fighting. This basically amounts to a HUGE penalty to your attack rolls with that character. But, with that improved combat expertise and fighting defensively your AB is already in the hole. (I'll just assume that switch to razor armor will be made due to the limiting text of armor spikes.) edit: for your convenience. Do you have to actively wield a weapon of defending to use its power? Or could you hold a longsword of defending in your left hand, not use it to attack (so you are not actually using the two weapons) and still wield a sword in your right hand without penalties? Or is the defending bonus considered part of the normal parrying that happens in the background? Using a weapon of defending works just like the Expertise feat. (You have to use an attack or full attack action.) You can�t use the weapon like a shield; if you hold the weapon in your off hand and claim an Armor Class bonus for it, you take all the penalties for fighting with two weapons, even if you don�t actually attack with the weapon. Cheers Otto :)