Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Votan 06-02-04, 10:32 PM	The Divine Crusader from the Complete Divine seems like a really neat class (at least I liked it). It has only one major flaw -- it can cast spells from only a single cleric domain (but it gets 9th level spells in 10 levels). This can be mitigated a bit with an extra domain. A one level dip in contemplative will get one. More are a bit tricky depending on allowed mixes of prestige classes. What is the best domain to pick? I was thinking war. Alternatively, I be interested in the best 2 as a combo with contemplative is not a serious problem.
Richmud 06-02-04, 10:41 PM	Well in my mind war isn't too good because you already need the war power (favored weapon focus) to just get in the class. I happen to like luck simply because it means you can cast miricle
Bond, James Bond 06-03-04, 08:25 AM	For a mellee char I`d choose war all the time. Divine favor, Divine Power, Righteous Might... Travel comes into my mind as well, for some flexibilty...
SaintX 06-03-04, 09:56 AM	righteous might is not a part of the war domain.
LunarCaustic 06-03-04, 11:09 AM	Strength Domain I think has rightous might as well as enlarge person, Barbarian/Divine Crusader worshiping Kord has intrested me to try
Snow Savant 06-03-04, 11:28 AM	Divine Crusader looks awesome on paper, but has played poorly in our play tests. When comparing it to similar and alternate builds, there's really no reason why you should not play a min/maxed "martial" Cleric build in lieu of the DC. Do some benchmark tests, and you'll see what I mean..
Neonsamurai 06-03-04, 11:31 AM	Luck Great not only because of miracle but also because of the outstanding cool domain power, spellturning and freedom of movement Magic Use wands, scrolls and staffs (poymorph!), cool spells like dispel magic (life saver), spell resistance, antimagic field, spellturning and mordekainen's disjunction (emergency nuclear warhead :D). Strength Mediocre domain power, but good melee spells as well as spell immunity. I necer was too fond of the Bigby's Hand spells, but here you get a lot of them
Votan 06-03-04, 11:38 AM	Originally posted by Snow Savant Divine Crusader looks awesome on paper, but has played poorly in our play tests. When comparing it to similar and alternate builds, there's really no reason why you should not play a min/maxed "martial" Cleric build in lieu of the DC. Do some benchmark tests, and you'll see what I mean.. The main vehicle that I have been interested in the divine crusader for is a fighter who reaches level 8 or so. A fighter at this point has gotten the main benefits of the fighting class and is beginning a slow (and sad) decline unless he leaves fighter behind. Divine crusader isn't perfect but it is easy for a fighter to qualify for and solves alot of the these problems. Obviously a martial cleric 20 is a worse nightmare than a fighter 10/divine crusader 10. But the second at least gives the fighter somewhere to go.
Jell_Moo 06-03-04, 02:10 PM	I'd say it depends on the character's role in the party. War offers a fairly redundant power (Weapon Focus) but has some great buff spells. For a character wanting more melee ability, War could work. In an arcane light party, the Magic domain is pretty good. Nice spells, and the ability to use spell trigger devices. Lacking healing in the party? Then take the healing domain. I've always loved the Luck domain. The ability to reroll a failed check or what not is great. It has a nice selection of utility and defensive spells, and best of all... M-I-R-A-C-L-E! That'll help take care of your tiny spell list. Celerity would make a good archer. Personally, I would go with the Luck domain, but hey, that's just me. :) P.S. Can I have the Luck domain? :D
Votan 06-03-04, 03:50 PM	Originally posted by Jell_Moo I'd say it depends on the character's role in the party. War offers a fairly redundant power (Weapon Focus) but has some great buff spells. For a character wanting more melee ability, War could work. In an arcane light party, the Magic domain is pretty good. Nice spells, and the ability to use spell trigger devices. Lacking healing in the party? Then take the healing domain. I've always loved the Luck domain. The ability to reroll a failed check or what not is great. It has a nice selection of utility and defensive spells, and best of all... M-I-R-A-C-L-E! That'll help take care of your tiny spell list. Celerity would make a good archer. Personally, I would go with the Luck domain, but hey, that's just me. :) The nice thing about tjhe magic domain is that the character could play as a half caster. Wands of fireball are sweet! The only issue would be that the caster level is probably pretty low . . . Luck does seem like a solid choice as does strength for a combatr character. War gives you alot as well. What about the elemental domains? Fire et al? Healing feels like a bit of a one note domain as all of the spells do the same thing! :) And the higher level spells, like true ressurection, aren't going to be used on a frequent basis (unlike miracle which will be used early and used often). P.S. Can I have the Luck domain? :D You should quaify for contemplative soon! :devil:
Nilaus 06-03-04, 04:12 PM	I can't believe nobody has mentioned it yet. Competition Domain. You have both Divine Power as well as Rigtheous Might. This domain practically screams Divine Metamagic (Persistent). The rest are ok, but nothing spectacular.
Caelic 06-03-04, 05:39 PM	Don't overlook the potential of a dip into Seeker of the Misty Isle for an Elven Divine Crusader. A one level dip gets you the very useful Travel domain, full spellcasting, and a bonus to your weakest save, Reflex. A four level dip gets you better saves and Swiftfooted, still gives you full casting, and costs you only a single point of BAB. Add this to the fact that the class has very mild requirements, and I think you have a winner.
Battousai 06-03-04, 05:45 PM	If you begin as a paladin, the Glory domain is quite cool. If I were to play one , I would probably take Selune as my patron deity and take the moon domain ,it just sounds too cool! Spell domain seems great too:anyspell and limited wish allows you to expand your spell repertoire, Mnenonic enhancer allows you cast more spells and you have Mordenkainen Disjunction! Well you might take levels in a PrC that grants additional domains, but it would only show how much the Divine crusader sucks compared to the cleric, it's really a shame because this PrC had serious potential.
helicopter 06-03-04, 05:47 PM	This prestige class has Charismas as its primary spellcasting stat, right? if so, your Fighter 8 most liekly has Charismas as a dump stat, right again? i'm just worried that taking this class after Fighter may be running thin all your stat. i think you call that multiple attribute dependency..
iN.fuSioN 06-03-04, 05:53 PM	If you happen to be playing with OA you could get the Hero Domain!!! It is so bad ass for a Divine Crusader... Divine Favor Bull's Strenght Protection from Elements Divine Power Righteous Might Stoneskin Tenser's Transformation Giant Size Shapechange :angel:
Votan 06-03-04, 06:14 PM	Originally posted by helicopter This prestige class has Charismas as its primary spellcasting stat, right? if so, your Fighter 8 most liekly has Charismas as a dump stat, right again? i'm just worried that taking this class after Fighter may be running thin all your stat. i think you call that multiple attribute dependency.. I was thinking CHA 8 + 1 (stat increase) + 5 tome + 5 cloak of Charisma +5 = 19 which is enough. It isn't perfect but it is a way to retrofit the class if it began to fall behind the casters.
Votan 06-03-04, 06:46 PM	Originally posted by Caelic Don't overlook the potential of a dip into Seeker of the Misty Isle for an Elven Divine Crusader. A one level dip gets you the very useful Travel domain, full spellcasting, and a bonus to your weakest save, Reflex. A four level dip gets you better saves and Swiftfooted, still gives you full casting, and costs you only a single point of BAB. Add this to the fact that the class has very mild requirements, and I think you have a winner. Actually, something like: Ranger 2 Paladin 2 3rd level of Ranger Pious Templar 2 Divine Crusader 2 Seeker of the Misty Isles 7 Contemplative 2 3rd level of Pious Templar Assuming 20 CHA at level 20 you would have: BAB +16 Saves: Fort + 27 Reflex + 19 Will + 22 9th levels spells from 4 domains (one from Diety, travel, magic and one of choice) Abilities: Slippery mind, mettle (see saves above), smite 1/day (+4 to hit, +3 to damage), DR 1/-, weapons specialization, divine health, swiftfooted, surefooted, Corellon's perception, find the path, favored enemy (=2), track, wild empathy, endurance, aura of good, detect evil, divine grace, lay on hands (20 hp), smite evil 1/day (+10 to hit, +2 to damage), some minor paladin spells. Costs: 13 ranks in knowledge (religion), weapon focus (deity's favored weapon), true believer, Survival 8 ranks, elf or half-elf. Notice synergy in requirements (weapon focus is used twice, knowledge religion is always needed). Pick uop survival as a ranger and knowledge religon first as a Paladin and then as erverything else. This is actually good. At ninth level BAB is still +9 so the character is a good combat fighter. Third attack takes a while but it worth it as abilities start showing up really fast about then.
DBoot 06-03-04, 07:25 PM	Well, if you could find a really awesome god, why not: Paladin 5/Occult Slayer 5/Divine Crusader 4/Contemplative 6? +16 BAB +11/+5/+14 saves Level 9 Spells 3 Domains Charisma casting and Divine Grace The Divine Health and such may be redundant, but you might be able to make a deal with your DM. One good Domain is Summoning. Any God can grant it and its power allows you to double your effective caster level for durations. So with 10 caster levels, you still cast summons as if you were level 20. Not a bad deal right? And we've all seen what can be done with summons. Magic is a great Domain. Goes well with the Occult Slayer (since many of the Magic Domain spells involve dispelling or defeating magic) It's like the old Inquistor kit from 2e! Luck is another good one, since its domain power isn't affected by level. I think it'd be rather fun to play, actually.
Nilaus 06-03-04, 07:39 PM	About additional domains. The paragraph states that the Divine Crusader chooses ONE domain that he gains access to and can cast spells from. So much for PrC dipping for domains. Add the fact that this class doesn't even have full BAB and this class is very tough to minmax. That Hero domain is ridiculously powerful, when would you not want that if you had even a slightly melee character.
Votan 06-03-04, 08:11 PM	Originally posted by Nilaus About additional domains. The paragraph states that the Divine Crusader chooses ONE domain that he gains access to and can cast spells from. So much for PrC dipping for domains. Add the fact that this class doesn't even have full BAB and this class is very tough to minmax. That Hero domain is ridiculously powerful, when would you not want that if you had even a slightly melee character. This is ambiguous, I admit. The class states that it grants a spell list of nine spell. A bonus domain adds to domains spells. The DC does not have these so what does one do? Under the bonus domain spell section it says that a character who memorizes spells (like the druid, paladin or ranger) you can memorize a domain spell as if it were a class spell but only one domain spell per level. The divine crusader is stated specifically as having a class spell list (defining it as this was the critical step) of only nine spells. So you could only memorize one of the spells from a bonus domain at each level. With a CHA of 20 they would have spells 5 4 4 4 4 3 2 2 1 Only one of these spells at each level would be eligble to be a domain spell. RATS! However, Dboot has the answer. Use his build. Take the feat domain spont. (turn undead from Paladin). This will help in the lower levels alot as you could do 8 swaps of spells from your class lsits for domain spells. On the other hand, divine might will be competing for these slots. Hmmm... this would suggest that 1 (maybe 2) domains would be the best strategy and it is really critical to get the first domain right. Still, you are right -- domain dips aren't as nice as I would ahve liked. :(