Best ECL +1 template for AT build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best ECL +1 template for AT build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
gordianknot1123
12-03-06, 10:48 PM Greetings, I am entering into an epic campaign and have a build for a
rog3/wiz5/AT10/Archmage3/AT4 with whisper gnome as the base rase. They are allowing the UA rules for paying off ECL. So I was wondering if there is an ECL+1 template worth spending the 3000XP to acquire. I have 12000 XP to burn on this, or items and such, so was wondering if there are any ECL +1 templates that would meh particularly well with this class.
Phoenix00
12-03-06, 10:55 PM Books?

You are starting at lvl 25 right.
gordianknot1123
12-03-06, 10:58 PM MY apologies. Yes we are starting at ECL 25. I would rather prefer to stick to ECL +1 templates but if there are other strong options, I might change the build to incorporate and ECL.

Books. The following is an abbreviated list, but I can geta hold of nearly any WotC book from my friends.

All Races, All complete, FRCS, MoF, BoVD, BoED, Stormwrack, Faiths and Pantheons, Savage Species, Draconomicon, Ghostwalk, MoP, among others.
Phoenix00
12-03-06, 11:02 PM Forgot to mention do you mind playing a specialist wizard?

Can you get access to a complete mage? Can you get access to PHB2? Do you mind using Persistant Spells?

If you can get access to to CM, and PHB2 do Unseen Seer 10 instead of Arcane Trickster 10. There is a spell called Hunter's Eye which you can grab with your Advanced Learning. 2nd lvl Ranger Spell (becomes Wizard spell throough Unseen Seer's advanced learning) gives you Caster Lvl/3 extra sneak attack. It is persistable.
dog45
12-03-06, 11:34 PM Dark Creature template from Tome of Magic. +1 LA for hide/ms bonuses, +10 ft speed and Hide in Plain Sight, among other minor crunch.
Phoenix00
12-03-06, 11:47 PM Collar of Umbral Metamorpshis gives you the dark template for a cheap item, not worth it.
Tweedledope
12-03-06, 11:48 PM Collar of Umbral Metamorpshis gives you the dark template for a cheap item, not worth it.
For a few minutes per day...
Phoenix00
12-03-06, 11:53 PM For a few minutes per day...

Reread it, the 10 minute command word version costs 10,800. The continuous one (thus unlimited) costs 22,000 gp. I stand by my comment don't do the Dark Creature Template, spend 22,000 gp at 25th lvl you should have about 2 million gp.
Tweedledope
12-03-06, 11:55 PM Reread it, the 10 minute command word version costs 10,800. The continuous one (thus unlimited) costs 22,000 gp. I stand by my comment don't do the Dark Creature Template, spend 22,000 gp at 25th lvl you should have about 2 million gp.
The clouds doth split apart to shine their glory hidden upon the lands...

Forgive my ignorance, great find.
LogicNinja
12-03-06, 11:57 PM Phoenix is right about the collar. Of course, it takes up an item slot, but you can add stuff to it, I guess--Multiple Different Abilities multiplier can hurt, though.

Feytouched will give you immunity to mind-affecting spells, but Mind Blank does that for you... Phrenic gives you an INT bonus and psi-like abilities, but is LA +2 (which you can still buy off)...
KiDevil
12-04-06, 12:01 AM He could go Rogue-1, Mage-4, Unseen-2, AT-10, Arch-3, AT-4.
He could still get the beneifit of the spell and this way still be an Arcane Trickster.

I second LogicNinja on the Phrenic templete, it's pretty nice, It'd only cost you 9000 xp oppsed to 3000 to buy off.
Phoenix00
12-04-06, 12:17 AM I am thinking Rogue 1/Wizard 3/Master Specialist 1/Unseen Seer 10/Archmage 5/Unseen Seer 5

Choose Divination Specialist as your focus, give up evocation. With all the conjuration spells you have access to and shadow evocation there is little reason to have evocation.

Take Practiced Spellcaster Wizard
For your 5 High Arcana I would choose these

Arcane Reach
Master of Elements
Master of Shaping
Spell Power 1
Spell Power 2

Also take Extend Spell, and Persistent Spell. Will need to take Spell Focus Divination prior to 4th lvl, and one more Spell Focus, get Skill Focus Spellcraft from Master Specialist (also located in Complete Mage)

Persist both Hunter's Eye and Vine Strike which you get from 2 of your 5 advanced learning (Grab Grave Strike as one of your third Advanced Learnings, you still have 2 more divination spells you can get from any list). Your Divination Spell power will be 32 (24 from lvls+1 from Practiced Spellcaster+5 from Unseen Seer+2 from Archmage) before you even add any items, thus at least an extra 10d6 bonus sneak attack. You have a caster lvl of 25 for all other spells (24 from lvls+4 from Practiced Spellcaster+2 from Archmage-5 from Unseen Seer) You should have 6d6 inherent sneak attack, will gain another inherent 1d6 at 26th lvl.

Yes 5 lvls of Archmage is probably sub optimal, but there is some simplicity with the above build.
JRDameonHv
12-04-06, 12:18 AM What book is that collar from?
Phoenix00
12-04-06, 12:23 AM Tome of Magic, the variant magic system book. It has the Binder, Shadowcrafter, and Truenamer. The item though is not a variant magic item, it goes with the whole new creatures they have that have the Dark Template, and the item only gives the template.
Phoenix00
12-04-06, 12:28 AM The Shadow Creature Template while may not be the best optimization wise easily goes with your flavor and is worth the 3000 xp.

Add that with the whisper gnome in my opinion.

Shadow Creature Template Dungeon 103 (3.5)
Shadow Creature Template Lords of Madness (3.5), p. 167
Shadow Creatures Template Manual of the Planes (3.0), p. 190
Shadow Creatures Template Into the Dragon's Lair (3.0), p. 96
There is a 3.5 update if you only have Manual of the Planes.
gordianknot1123
12-05-06, 07:41 PM Just wanted to say thanks for the advice. I have now added the XPH and complete mage to my collection (just a few too many useful toys in both). I now have a collar of natural armor and umbral transformation, as well as being a phrenic whisper gnome and spending the 9000 xp from my pool. The half fey was interesting but the character is already using a cowl of warding from MoF, which produces mind blank and freedom of movement constantly. The shadow creature just simply did not seem to be quite worth the +2 ECL at least when compared to the Phrenic creature, which complements the rogue and arcane abilities nicely with those useful powers that it can manifest along with some sweet stat boosts. So just a thankee for all the help. Appreciate any further advice you might have in this vein.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
gordianknot1123 12-03-06, 10:48 PM	Greetings, I am entering into an epic campaign and have a build for a rog3/wiz5/AT10/Archmage3/AT4 with whisper gnome as the base rase. They are allowing the UA rules for paying off ECL. So I was wondering if there is an ECL+1 template worth spending the 3000XP to acquire. I have 12000 XP to burn on this, or items and such, so was wondering if there are any ECL +1 templates that would meh particularly well with this class.
Phoenix00 12-03-06, 10:55 PM	Books? You are starting at lvl 25 right.
gordianknot1123 12-03-06, 10:58 PM	MY apologies. Yes we are starting at ECL 25. I would rather prefer to stick to ECL +1 templates but if there are other strong options, I might change the build to incorporate and ECL. Books. The following is an abbreviated list, but I can geta hold of nearly any WotC book from my friends. All Races, All complete, FRCS, MoF, BoVD, BoED, Stormwrack, Faiths and Pantheons, Savage Species, Draconomicon, Ghostwalk, MoP, among others.
Phoenix00 12-03-06, 11:02 PM	Forgot to mention do you mind playing a specialist wizard? Can you get access to a complete mage? Can you get access to PHB2? Do you mind using Persistant Spells? If you can get access to to CM, and PHB2 do Unseen Seer 10 instead of Arcane Trickster 10. There is a spell called Hunter's Eye which you can grab with your Advanced Learning. 2nd lvl Ranger Spell (becomes Wizard spell throough Unseen Seer's advanced learning) gives you Caster Lvl/3 extra sneak attack. It is persistable.
dog45 12-03-06, 11:34 PM	Dark Creature template from Tome of Magic. +1 LA for hide/ms bonuses, +10 ft speed and Hide in Plain Sight, among other minor crunch.
Phoenix00 12-03-06, 11:47 PM	Collar of Umbral Metamorpshis gives you the dark template for a cheap item, not worth it.
Tweedledope 12-03-06, 11:48 PM	Collar of Umbral Metamorpshis gives you the dark template for a cheap item, not worth it. For a few minutes per day...
Phoenix00 12-03-06, 11:53 PM	For a few minutes per day... Reread it, the 10 minute command word version costs 10,800. The continuous one (thus unlimited) costs 22,000 gp. I stand by my comment don't do the Dark Creature Template, spend 22,000 gp at 25th lvl you should have about 2 million gp.
Tweedledope 12-03-06, 11:55 PM	Reread it, the 10 minute command word version costs 10,800. The continuous one (thus unlimited) costs 22,000 gp. I stand by my comment don't do the Dark Creature Template, spend 22,000 gp at 25th lvl you should have about 2 million gp. The clouds doth split apart to shine their glory hidden upon the lands... Forgive my ignorance, great find.
LogicNinja 12-03-06, 11:57 PM	Phoenix is right about the collar. Of course, it takes up an item slot, but you can add stuff to it, I guess--Multiple Different Abilities multiplier can hurt, though. Feytouched will give you immunity to mind-affecting spells, but Mind Blank does that for you... Phrenic gives you an INT bonus and psi-like abilities, but is LA +2 (which you can still buy off)...
KiDevil 12-04-06, 12:01 AM	He could go Rogue-1, Mage-4, Unseen-2, AT-10, Arch-3, AT-4. He could still get the beneifit of the spell and this way still be an Arcane Trickster. I second LogicNinja on the Phrenic templete, it's pretty nice, It'd only cost you 9000 xp oppsed to 3000 to buy off.
Phoenix00 12-04-06, 12:17 AM	I am thinking Rogue 1/Wizard 3/Master Specialist 1/Unseen Seer 10/Archmage 5/Unseen Seer 5 Choose Divination Specialist as your focus, give up evocation. With all the conjuration spells you have access to and shadow evocation there is little reason to have evocation. Take Practiced Spellcaster Wizard For your 5 High Arcana I would choose these Arcane Reach Master of Elements Master of Shaping Spell Power 1 Spell Power 2 Also take Extend Spell, and Persistent Spell. Will need to take Spell Focus Divination prior to 4th lvl, and one more Spell Focus, get Skill Focus Spellcraft from Master Specialist (also located in Complete Mage) Persist both Hunter's Eye and Vine Strike which you get from 2 of your 5 advanced learning (Grab Grave Strike as one of your third Advanced Learnings, you still have 2 more divination spells you can get from any list). Your Divination Spell power will be 32 (24 from lvls+1 from Practiced Spellcaster+5 from Unseen Seer+2 from Archmage) before you even add any items, thus at least an extra 10d6 bonus sneak attack. You have a caster lvl of 25 for all other spells (24 from lvls+4 from Practiced Spellcaster+2 from Archmage-5 from Unseen Seer) You should have 6d6 inherent sneak attack, will gain another inherent 1d6 at 26th lvl. Yes 5 lvls of Archmage is probably sub optimal, but there is some simplicity with the above build.
JRDameonHv 12-04-06, 12:18 AM	What book is that collar from?
Phoenix00 12-04-06, 12:23 AM	Tome of Magic, the variant magic system book. It has the Binder, Shadowcrafter, and Truenamer. The item though is not a variant magic item, it goes with the whole new creatures they have that have the Dark Template, and the item only gives the template.
Phoenix00 12-04-06, 12:28 AM	The Shadow Creature Template while may not be the best optimization wise easily goes with your flavor and is worth the 3000 xp. Add that with the whisper gnome in my opinion. Shadow Creature Template Dungeon 103 (3.5) Shadow Creature Template Lords of Madness (3.5), p. 167 Shadow Creatures Template Manual of the Planes (3.0), p. 190 Shadow Creatures Template Into the Dragon's Lair (3.0), p. 96 There is a 3.5 update if you only have Manual of the Planes.
gordianknot1123 12-05-06, 07:41 PM	Just wanted to say thanks for the advice. I have now added the XPH and complete mage to my collection (just a few too many useful toys in both). I now have a collar of natural armor and umbral transformation, as well as being a phrenic whisper gnome and spending the 9000 xp from my pool. The half fey was interesting but the character is already using a cowl of warding from MoF, which produces mind blank and freedom of movement constantly. The shadow creature just simply did not seem to be quite worth the +2 ECL at least when compared to the Phrenic creature, which complements the rogue and arcane abilities nicely with those useful powers that it can manifest along with some sweet stat boosts. So just a thankee for all the help. Appreciate any further advice you might have in this vein.