Best full BAB to add to 16 levels of monk? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best full BAB to add to 16 levels of monk? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Femur Toothpick
02-03-04, 11:19 AM What would you consider the best 4 levels of a full BAB class or PrC to add to 16 levels of monk. I'm looking to have Greater Flurry in conjunction with 4 attacks per round at level 20, to give me +17/+17/+17/+12/+7/+2.

Just plain Fighter makes a lot of sense - no req. & 3 feats.

Paladin is an obvious choice.

Templar is alright with Mettle, Weapon Spec., a few spells, a feat, etc., but the prereq. Endurance is a waste.

Ninja of Cres. Moon is decent, but prereq. sorta hurt.

Singh Rager is nice, but Iron Will bites and charisma based abilities are pretty weak for most monks.

Any other ideas? Anything with full BAB that stacks with some monk abilities?
Crunchy Frog
02-03-04, 11:36 AM If you have a high intelligence, Duelist gets your AC up.

The Ranger's weapon-related feats won't help much, but at least their skill list is similar to the Monk's, so you can keep on improving your Spot, Hide, Move Silently, etc.
mean_liar
02-03-04, 11:50 AM Kensai couldn't hurt.
Abulafia
02-03-04, 12:07 PM I think Kensai has a Monk BAB. Although if you point to the OA samurai and whine to your DM hard enough, you might be able to get a house-ruled Fighter BAB Kensai.
Abulafia
02-03-04, 12:20 PM Assuming OA free Monk multiclassing:

Fighter levels are nice and straightforward, but the 2 skill points/level hurt, and by the time you've reached 16th level, the bonus feat selection is going to be a little slim. Still, it's probably the default choice.

Shou Disciple from Unapproachable East is an option. The (non-flavor) prereqs are pretty easily met for most Monks, and the Dodge bonus and martial flurry features are nice. However, like the Fighter, the bonus feat selection is slim, and you get one fewer. If you want to be a greatsword-wielding nightmare, however, this one's for you.

Paladin levels look good, but they have problems. Since you're a Monk, you're trying to keep high scores in Wis, Con, Str, Dex, and (if you're also the party skill-user) Int. That means, barring fantastic dice-rolling, your Charisma is going to be 10 or less, and probably won't improve. For this reason, Divine Grace is not the benefit it should be. Besides, aren't your saving throws high enough? Smite and Detect Evil are still useful, though.

Don't overlook Ranger. Good meshing with the skills (except for tumble) and saves, and Track, TWF, and Endurance are all useful in the right concepts. If your DM is a doormat, you could even take 3 levels of Ranger (for Endurance), switch alignment, and then pick up a level of Barbarian. Bring it on!

One last thought: Dervish. Dancing about with your Monk speed, kamas slashing, making your DM's head spin as he counts the attacks . . . Good times.
nihility
02-03-04, 12:32 PM The Ninja of the Crescent Moon has been subjected to a great deal of errata. It now gets rogue BAB and rogue saves (3/4 BAB and good REF only, in other words). The class abilities are unchanged. Check out the Sword and Fist errata here. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a)
nihility
02-03-04, 12:34 PM I think Kensai has a Monk BAB. Although if you point to the OA samurai and whine to your DM hard enough, you might be able to get a house-ruled Fighter BAB Kensai.I think mean_liar meant the "Complete Warrior" kensai, not...whichever one you were thinking of.
Femur Toothpick
02-03-04, 12:38 PM I forgot that Dervish is full BAB. Ohhh, interesting.

Here's the deal. We play an FR campaign and I'm a member of the Sun Souls who can multiclass freely with one other class, as long as the monk level is higher. I can only pick one class or PrC. This doesn't include stackable classes though like the Shintao or Kensai - but none of them have full BAB to my knowledge.
Abulafia
02-03-04, 12:54 PM Originally posted by nihility
I think mean_liar meant the "Complete Warrior" kensai, not...whichever one you were thinking of.

I didn't buy the book, but I am about 90% sure the Complete Warrior kensai has Monk BAB. If I'm wrong, I'll buy you a Coke.
mean_liar
02-03-04, 12:55 PM Originally posted by Abulafia
I think Kensai has a Monk BAB. Although if you point to the OA samurai and whine to your DM hard enough, you might be able to get a house-ruled Fighter BAB Kensai.

Such are the perils of replying without a book.
ksbsnowowl
02-03-04, 12:59 PM Originally posted by Femur Toothpick
Templar is alright with Mettle, Weapon Spec., a few spells, a feat, etc., but the prereq. Endurance is a waste. How about taking 3 levels of the 3.5 ranger to get endurance for free, and then taking that first level of Templar to get Mettle, WS, etc?

Or.....you could take 4 levels of Forsaker and have Spell Resistance of 40 at 20th level.......[runs away to avoid the flames]
nihility
02-03-04, 01:33 PM Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that I can't imagine why any DM would consider the CW kensai underpowered when compared to the OA Samurai. The XP sacrifice is relatively minor, especially if you're only in for a few level's worth of enhancements, and replacing a save with a bloody skill check is just beyond comprehension to me. I thus assumed you were talking about one of the many other "kensai" classes. Though, since the point of the thread was to get full BAB, you probably interpreted my post in the most logical fashion. My apologies.
Femur Toothpick
02-03-04, 03:26 PM How about taking 3 levels of the 3.5 ranger to get endurance for free, and then taking that first level of Templar to get Mettle, WS, etc?

I thought about this, but I am restricted to one class as a multiclass option. If I take Ranger & Templar, I become an ex-monk.

The addition of endurance would open up some other possibilities though like the Tatooed Monk. This really doesn't help me though, since I'm mainly looking to gain Greater Flurry with BAB16+. This means monk level 11+ and a full BAB class for 4+ levels. It would look like this: Monk12/Ranger3/Templar1/TM4 - not very epic friendly.
horndgod
02-03-04, 03:36 PM I think Templar is probably a good choice, just be sure to pick a god that has unarmed or natural attacks as the favored weapon. Then you don't waste the feat on Weapon Focus. Mettle is one the best abilities IMO. Evasion on all saving throws! :D
Elmaster of Thay
02-03-04, 08:15 PM Originally posted by Femur Toothpick
... since I'm mainly looking to gain Greater Flurry with BAB16+. This means monk level 11+ and a full BAB class for 4+ levels...

Like it was suggested earlier you need to take Shou Disciple. It has full BAB, and flurry of blows is a class ability, so levels of shou disc. will stack with monks levels for flurry. Also, you can use your flurry with any weapon at level 5, and you get a boost to unarmed damage at low levels. A monk5/Shou5 can flurry like a 10 level monk and deals 2d6 unarmed damage. You get 2 bonus feats to boot. The only drawback of this class is that monks can't freely multiclass in it, but your monk order solves that.

Shou Disciple is on Unapproachable East
pawsplay
02-03-04, 09:54 PM Exotic Weapon Master is an option.
Karkul
02-04-04, 01:32 AM Sacred Fist from DotF has fighter BAB and the monk flurry ability, as well as a free prestige domain. But its 3.0...
Sensei Gith
02-04-04, 08:27 AM Serenity, a feat from some long-ago Dragon, lets you use Wis with pally stuff. :D
Aramas
02-04-04, 11:02 PM Since no one has suggested it yet, how about the Reaping Mauler from Complete Warrior? Full BAB and some nice grappling bonuses.
Femur Toothpick
02-05-04, 09:17 AM Another one from CW that meshes pretty well with the monk is the Occult Slayer. It has some great enhancements to fighting spell casters - which is a real niche for the monk anyway. The prereqs are pretty friendly too. The only thing is that, by the book, you need a masterwork weapon to bond. One would have to convince a DM to allow this with unarmed attacks.
pawsplay
02-05-04, 03:18 PM Why wouldn't you just carry around a monk weapon?
Femur Toothpick
02-05-04, 03:51 PM You could, but at 20th level the 1d6 damage for a monk weapon just doesn't compair to the 2d10 damage a monk does unarmed. And with the proper feats & PrCs that 2d10 could get pumped up quite a bit more.
Sensei Gith
02-05-04, 04:27 PM 2d10 sounds like a lot, but you can't enhance fists. You have to settle for the ridiculously overpriced amulet, and you can't add abilities like flaming. Monk weapons are usually better.
PhaedrusXY
02-05-04, 04:42 PM How about using the Ward Cestus from the Arms and Equipment Guide? Best I remember, it was a glove/gauntlet type weapon that counted as an unarmed attack as far as damage, but could be enhanced normally.

I can't really remember what the intended purpose of the weapon was, because the only thing I was thinking when I saw it was "YES, finally a decent way to enhance monk fists!".
itsgotime
02-05-04, 04:48 PM ive seen where other people dont like this, but here goes

how about taking a vow of poverty and going 4 lvls in forsaker?

with the ability mods you can up your attack bonus better than any 4 lvls would. In that thought you get +4 BAB form forsaker. This of course if you dont have a ton of gold and magic in your campaign(which my campaigns tend to not have).
PhaedrusXY
02-05-04, 11:07 PM You can't combine forsaker with Exalted Vows, because Exalted Vows are supernatural abilities granted by divine beings (i.e. they are magical). This has been debated before. Search around and you'll find what I'm talking about.
incubus
02-05-04, 11:15 PM How about hexblade - full bab, a spell at 4th, a familiar, mettle for both fort and will saves, hexes.
Vysirez
02-05-04, 11:28 PM As far as enchanting fists, there are a couple of other items besides amulet of mighty fists. There are one or two items in Savage species that allow enchanting specific attacks/limbs like a weapon. There may be other items in other sourcebooks.
Timespike
02-05-04, 11:37 PM Paladin of Rao, and then use the Serenity feat from Dragon 306. Divine grace, lay on hands, and undead turning are suddenly all wisdom-based. :devil:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Femur Toothpick 02-03-04, 11:19 AM	What would you consider the best 4 levels of a full BAB class or PrC to add to 16 levels of monk. I'm looking to have Greater Flurry in conjunction with 4 attacks per round at level 20, to give me +17/+17/+17/+12/+7/+2. Just plain Fighter makes a lot of sense - no req. & 3 feats. Paladin is an obvious choice. Templar is alright with Mettle, Weapon Spec., a few spells, a feat, etc., but the prereq. Endurance is a waste. Ninja of Cres. Moon is decent, but prereq. sorta hurt. Singh Rager is nice, but Iron Will bites and charisma based abilities are pretty weak for most monks. Any other ideas? Anything with full BAB that stacks with some monk abilities?
Crunchy Frog 02-03-04, 11:36 AM	If you have a high intelligence, Duelist gets your AC up. The Ranger's weapon-related feats won't help much, but at least their skill list is similar to the Monk's, so you can keep on improving your Spot, Hide, Move Silently, etc.
mean_liar 02-03-04, 11:50 AM	Kensai couldn't hurt.
Abulafia 02-03-04, 12:07 PM	I think Kensai has a Monk BAB. Although if you point to the OA samurai and whine to your DM hard enough, you might be able to get a house-ruled Fighter BAB Kensai.
Abulafia 02-03-04, 12:20 PM	Assuming OA free Monk multiclassing: Fighter levels are nice and straightforward, but the 2 skill points/level hurt, and by the time you've reached 16th level, the bonus feat selection is going to be a little slim. Still, it's probably the default choice. Shou Disciple from Unapproachable East is an option. The (non-flavor) prereqs are pretty easily met for most Monks, and the Dodge bonus and martial flurry features are nice. However, like the Fighter, the bonus feat selection is slim, and you get one fewer. If you want to be a greatsword-wielding nightmare, however, this one's for you. Paladin levels look good, but they have problems. Since you're a Monk, you're trying to keep high scores in Wis, Con, Str, Dex, and (if you're also the party skill-user) Int. That means, barring fantastic dice-rolling, your Charisma is going to be 10 or less, and probably won't improve. For this reason, Divine Grace is not the benefit it should be. Besides, aren't your saving throws high enough? Smite and Detect Evil are still useful, though. Don't overlook Ranger. Good meshing with the skills (except for tumble) and saves, and Track, TWF, and Endurance are all useful in the right concepts. If your DM is a doormat, you could even take 3 levels of Ranger (for Endurance), switch alignment, and then pick up a level of Barbarian. Bring it on! One last thought: Dervish. Dancing about with your Monk speed, kamas slashing, making your DM's head spin as he counts the attacks . . . Good times.
nihility 02-03-04, 12:32 PM	The Ninja of the Crescent Moon has been subjected to a great deal of errata. It now gets rogue BAB and rogue saves (3/4 BAB and good REF only, in other words). The class abilities are unchanged. Check out the Sword and Fist errata here. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a)
nihility 02-03-04, 12:34 PM	I think Kensai has a Monk BAB. Although if you point to the OA samurai and whine to your DM hard enough, you might be able to get a house-ruled Fighter BAB Kensai.I think mean_liar meant the "Complete Warrior" kensai, not...whichever one you were thinking of.
Femur Toothpick 02-03-04, 12:38 PM	I forgot that Dervish is full BAB. Ohhh, interesting. Here's the deal. We play an FR campaign and I'm a member of the Sun Souls who can multiclass freely with one other class, as long as the monk level is higher. I can only pick one class or PrC. This doesn't include stackable classes though like the Shintao or Kensai - but none of them have full BAB to my knowledge.
Abulafia 02-03-04, 12:54 PM	Originally posted by nihility I think mean_liar meant the "Complete Warrior" kensai, not...whichever one you were thinking of. I didn't buy the book, but I am about 90% sure the Complete Warrior kensai has Monk BAB. If I'm wrong, I'll buy you a Coke.
mean_liar 02-03-04, 12:55 PM	Originally posted by Abulafia I think Kensai has a Monk BAB. Although if you point to the OA samurai and whine to your DM hard enough, you might be able to get a house-ruled Fighter BAB Kensai. Such are the perils of replying without a book.
ksbsnowowl 02-03-04, 12:59 PM	Originally posted by Femur Toothpick Templar is alright with Mettle, Weapon Spec., a few spells, a feat, etc., but the prereq. Endurance is a waste. How about taking 3 levels of the 3.5 ranger to get endurance for free, and then taking that first level of Templar to get Mettle, WS, etc? Or.....you could take 4 levels of Forsaker and have Spell Resistance of 40 at 20th level.......[runs away to avoid the flames]
nihility 02-03-04, 01:33 PM	Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant that I can't imagine why any DM would consider the CW kensai underpowered when compared to the OA Samurai. The XP sacrifice is relatively minor, especially if you're only in for a few level's worth of enhancements, and replacing a save with a bloody skill check is just beyond comprehension to me. I thus assumed you were talking about one of the many other "kensai" classes. Though, since the point of the thread was to get full BAB, you probably interpreted my post in the most logical fashion. My apologies.
Femur Toothpick 02-03-04, 03:26 PM	How about taking 3 levels of the 3.5 ranger to get endurance for free, and then taking that first level of Templar to get Mettle, WS, etc? I thought about this, but I am restricted to one class as a multiclass option. If I take Ranger & Templar, I become an ex-monk. The addition of endurance would open up some other possibilities though like the Tatooed Monk. This really doesn't help me though, since I'm mainly looking to gain Greater Flurry with BAB16+. This means monk level 11+ and a full BAB class for 4+ levels. It would look like this: Monk12/Ranger3/Templar1/TM4 - not very epic friendly.
horndgod 02-03-04, 03:36 PM	I think Templar is probably a good choice, just be sure to pick a god that has unarmed or natural attacks as the favored weapon. Then you don't waste the feat on Weapon Focus. Mettle is one the best abilities IMO. Evasion on all saving throws! :D
Elmaster of Thay 02-03-04, 08:15 PM	Originally posted by Femur Toothpick ... since I'm mainly looking to gain Greater Flurry with BAB16+. This means monk level 11+ and a full BAB class for 4+ levels... Like it was suggested earlier you need to take Shou Disciple. It has full BAB, and flurry of blows is a class ability, so levels of shou disc. will stack with monks levels for flurry. Also, you can use your flurry with any weapon at level 5, and you get a boost to unarmed damage at low levels. A monk5/Shou5 can flurry like a 10 level monk and deals 2d6 unarmed damage. You get 2 bonus feats to boot. The only drawback of this class is that monks can't freely multiclass in it, but your monk order solves that. Shou Disciple is on Unapproachable East
pawsplay 02-03-04, 09:54 PM	Exotic Weapon Master is an option.
Karkul 02-04-04, 01:32 AM	Sacred Fist from DotF has fighter BAB and the monk flurry ability, as well as a free prestige domain. But its 3.0...
Sensei Gith 02-04-04, 08:27 AM	Serenity, a feat from some long-ago Dragon, lets you use Wis with pally stuff. :D
Aramas 02-04-04, 11:02 PM	Since no one has suggested it yet, how about the Reaping Mauler from Complete Warrior? Full BAB and some nice grappling bonuses.
Femur Toothpick 02-05-04, 09:17 AM	Another one from CW that meshes pretty well with the monk is the Occult Slayer. It has some great enhancements to fighting spell casters - which is a real niche for the monk anyway. The prereqs are pretty friendly too. The only thing is that, by the book, you need a masterwork weapon to bond. One would have to convince a DM to allow this with unarmed attacks.
pawsplay 02-05-04, 03:18 PM	Why wouldn't you just carry around a monk weapon?
Femur Toothpick 02-05-04, 03:51 PM	You could, but at 20th level the 1d6 damage for a monk weapon just doesn't compair to the 2d10 damage a monk does unarmed. And with the proper feats & PrCs that 2d10 could get pumped up quite a bit more.
Sensei Gith 02-05-04, 04:27 PM	2d10 sounds like a lot, but you can't enhance fists. You have to settle for the ridiculously overpriced amulet, and you can't add abilities like flaming. Monk weapons are usually better.
PhaedrusXY 02-05-04, 04:42 PM	How about using the Ward Cestus from the Arms and Equipment Guide? Best I remember, it was a glove/gauntlet type weapon that counted as an unarmed attack as far as damage, but could be enhanced normally. I can't really remember what the intended purpose of the weapon was, because the only thing I was thinking when I saw it was "YES, finally a decent way to enhance monk fists!".
itsgotime 02-05-04, 04:48 PM	ive seen where other people dont like this, but here goes how about taking a vow of poverty and going 4 lvls in forsaker? with the ability mods you can up your attack bonus better than any 4 lvls would. In that thought you get +4 BAB form forsaker. This of course if you dont have a ton of gold and magic in your campaign(which my campaigns tend to not have).
PhaedrusXY 02-05-04, 11:07 PM	You can't combine forsaker with Exalted Vows, because Exalted Vows are supernatural abilities granted by divine beings (i.e. they are magical). This has been debated before. Search around and you'll find what I'm talking about.
incubus 02-05-04, 11:15 PM	How about hexblade - full bab, a spell at 4th, a familiar, mettle for both fort and will saves, hexes.
Vysirez 02-05-04, 11:28 PM	As far as enchanting fists, there are a couple of other items besides amulet of mighty fists. There are one or two items in Savage species that allow enchanting specific attacks/limbs like a weapon. There may be other items in other sourcebooks.
Timespike 02-05-04, 11:37 PM	Paladin of Rao, and then use the Serenity feat from Dragon 306. Divine grace, lay on hands, and undead turning are suddenly all wisdom-based. :devil: