Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jolly Josh 08-22-05, 05:25 PM	Using core+complete+races+BoED i need a planewalking gestalt demonhunter supreme. I need supreme slaying/immunity abilities against tanari and baatezu... please help! I think Warlock 20/Planar Ranger 20 is good.... but its not optimized!
Erudite 08-22-05, 05:46 PM	Do this: Cleric 20 other 'side' Ranger 3, Ex-Paladin 1-->Fiendslayer (Dr287) 1 end up with... Ranger 3/Fiendslayer 1 Continue to Ranger 3/Fiendslayer 10/Nar Demonbinder 7 You'll end up with BAB +18, Excellent saves, 9th level divine, 8th level arcane, an imp or quasit familiar, Wis to saves against fiends, and abilities which include: 1. Remove SR from a fiend for 10 rounds. 2. Remove all spells, spell-like, and supernatural abilities from a fiend for 24 hours. You can take on Grazz't all by yourself.
Jolly Josh 08-22-05, 05:55 PM	dragon magazine and FR stuff is out... but thats nice
Happy_Gnoll 08-22-05, 06:06 PM	Thats a good gestalt build... i'll remember that one.
Happy_Gnoll 08-22-05, 06:25 PM	best build i've been able to gestalt, is a Paladin/Monk 20 with Extra Smiting and Blessed Aura.
Erudite 08-22-05, 06:26 PM	Thats a good gestalt build... i'll remember that one. Thank you. Well, a Stalker of Evil (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=140595) build works well, plus you can stick Cleric 20 along the otherside.
primetimekiller 08-22-05, 07:39 PM	the best and i really mean the best gestalt would be warlock/artificer both are broken by them selves and together it gets even worse since both can use magic device abuses^^ both are good in crafting since the artificer AND the warlock have a ability to emulate needed spells^^ not to mention the warlocks all deay buffs! not to mention the incredible firepower a artificer grants ! i really cant think of anything more powerfull then those two i already asked my DM if i can play this thing but after he suffered a lot from my warlock and now suffers a lot from my artificer... well you can imagine what he said...!
primetimekiller 08-22-05, 07:42 PM	hmm i guess youre not allowed to use ebberon... in that case you should think of taking warlock20on the other side and MONSTEROUS hiddice or some monster prc's on the other this can be broken too
Boshi 08-22-05, 08:24 PM	How about a plain old paladin/sorceror? Get a lot out of your chr that way, good spells, good hp and good BaB
Aramas 08-22-05, 08:48 PM	Warlock 20 / Scout 20 Simple and effective.
Chaos116882 08-22-05, 08:53 PM	if artificer is allowed id say marhal1/Paladin2/Rogue2/Wu Jen 1/Warlock14/Artificer 20 or if you want to do an melee artificer the possibilities with levels of psy war and or fighter are endless
Khan the Destroyer 08-23-05, 12:34 AM	Hmmm... What about: Paladin 8/Knight of the Chalice 10/Paladin+2 Sorcerer 6/Exalted Arcanist 2/Sorcerer+10/Exalted Arcanist+2 You get the Charisma synergy between Sorcerer and Paladin: -Spells and spell DC's -Bonus to saves -turn attempts -Divine Might You get the Fiendslaying abilities of the Knight of the Chalice, as well as the ability to Censure demons. And the Exalted Arcanist expands your spell list, and makes it easier for you to Purify or Consecrate your spells, which deal more damage to evil outsiders. You also have full BAB and the two most important saves, Fort and Will. Don't forget Smite either. Smite Evil + Divine Might + Fiend Slaying = Dead Fiend EDIT: I forgot to add... the Knight of the Chalice class gives you immunity to a fiend's fear effects, as well as their charms and enchantments. At higher levels, it gives that immunity to your allies within 20'. Once per day you can also activate a Holy Aura effect.
obrysii 08-23-05, 12:43 AM	For spellcasting: Human Wizard 3/Geomancer 10/Wizard 3/Lich 2/Wizard 2//Cleric 13/Dweomerkeeper 5/Lich 2 You end up with 9th level cleric and wizard spells, cast all spells as divine spells (as in, no arcane spellcasting failure and using wisdom for spell save DC's), all of those handy-dandy drifts, all of the fun of dweomerkeeper, and the near immortality of lichdom. This one would probably be the optimal build for what you need. Use a magically re-enforced psionically hardened piece of aurorum as your phylactory, surround it by at least 1' cube of magically re-enforced psionically hardened Obdurium, and then if possible Imprision it (failing that, bury it under a mountain of stone using Shapechange to use a Xorn's movement capabilities). Even if the enemy can locate it, and cut through the 900+hp of Hardness 70 metal, the aurorum can always be put back together by your friends to restore you to unlife. For melee: Wood Elf Werebear 9/Warshaper 3/War Hulk 8//Monk 20 Focusing on strength, you can get upwards of 60 strength with that build. You also have medium BaB, and if you get to Epic levels, you can use the War Hulk's special abilities to flurry of blows every monster you threaten. With Extended Reach and the Warshaper levels and an Enlarge person, that ends up being about 30'. You can get your unarmed strikes up to huge levels of damage and thanks to your high strength, they're pretty accurate.
Jolly Josh 08-23-05, 12:31 PM	For melee: Wood Elf Werebear 9/Warshaper 3/War Hulk 8//Monk 20 i don't beleive 'no time to think' and a wizard is going to work :P
Jolly Josh 08-23-05, 12:32 PM	Hmmm... What about: Paladin 8/Knight of the Chalice 10/Paladin+2 Sorcerer 6/Exalted Arcanist 2/Sorcerer+10/Exalted Arcanist+2 You get the Charisma synergy between Sorcerer and Paladin: -Spells and spell DC's -Bonus to saves -turn attempts -Divine Might You get the Fiendslaying abilities of the Knight of the Chalice, as well as the ability to Censure demons. And the Exalted Arcanist expands your spell list, and makes it easier for you to Purify or Consecrate your spells, which deal more damage to evil outsiders. You also have full BAB and the two most important saves, Fort and Will. Don't forget Smite either. Smite Evil + Divine Might + Fiend Slaying = Dead Fiend EDIT: I forgot to add... the Knight of the Chalice class gives you immunity to a fiend's fear effects, as well as their charms and enchantments. At higher levels, it gives that immunity to your allies within 20'. Once per day you can also activate a Holy Aura effect. I like this idea alot... lots of slaying abilities and specific protections against them...
Zemyla 08-23-05, 01:44 PM	i don't beleive 'no time to think' and a wizard is going to work :P They're two different builds. :{
ShadowWarrior 08-23-05, 02:10 PM	I personally enjoy Monk 20, Divine Casting Class 20 Gestalt. Get a whole heck of a lot out of WIS.
jameswilliamogle 08-23-05, 02:39 PM	what about wiz5 inc 10 mindbender 1 fatespinner 2 AM 2 on 1 side and psion 10 ilithid slayer 10 on the other? no MAD, full weapon prof, 19 manifester levels 20 arcane levels. forget killing demons - dominate them, then true mind switch with them.
obrysii 08-23-05, 11:27 PM	i don't beleive 'no time to think' and a wizard is going to work :P They're entirely two different builds. Note the part that says "For melee:"? It means the melee build. Also, I've played both to level 5 (wow, epic there) in an Eberron game, and while neither had hit their click point, they were both impressive -the Werebear build moreso. If you're interested in my builds (what feats I picked and such), I can send them to you via PM or post them here. I can't find the actual theads, since they're ancient and the search is eternally down (:( ).
NineInchNall 08-24-05, 12:38 AM	How about Spellthief 20 Hexblade 3/Paladin of Slaughter 2/Rogue 2/Bard 2/Blackguard 2/Arcane Duelist 2/Sublime Chord 8 Hmm. I dunno if the feats will work out or anything, but it seems to me that one could get a small amount of ability score synergy when using gestalt rules. This should be getting Cha to saves a few (3) times, Cha to attack from Snowflake Wardance, Cha to AC from ArDu, Evasion, Mettle, and all those sexy Spellthief abilities to bounce spells back after successfully saving. It's like he's walking around with a maximized spell turning on all the time. :cool: With Gestalt characters, one should probably be using fractional BAB, so this could get a very decent BAB, 8th level spells Hu: Power Attack 1: Cleave 3: Improved Sunder 6: Dodge 9: Mobility 12: Snowflake Wardance 15: ??? 18: ??? I think it works ... I'm not sure if it's optimal or anything, but it's an interesting starting point. :)
Tytalus 08-24-05, 02:00 AM	Never mind :P
Erudite 08-24-05, 08:50 AM	Fiends? Friend, those are lost souls. We have a duty to bring them back to the light, or kill them trying! Gloura (with +2 level buy off) Marshall 3/Emissary of Barachiel 3/Exemplar 1/Paladin 3 AND Sorcerer 9/Harper Paragon 10/Spellsword 1 Tactic: Use Nightsticks and Divine Metamagic (chain) to PAO some new friends to humanoids. Then use Conversion to make them neutral. Use Diplomacy to keep them friendly, bring ‘em some place you won’t be bothered with planeshift, A week later, turn them good. Stay a week to make sure it ‘takes’, then return to the lower planes with your newly redeemed buddies to help out more unfortunates. With the Nemesis (BoED) feat, you will always know who has been naughty, so you can’t be fooled. A nice Wonderous Item of +30 Diplomacy will help out. Calling Conversion Cha to ACx1 and to Saves x2 Motivate Charisma +Cha to all Cha checks Determined Caster + Cha to all Caster Level checks for dispel and to penetrate SR Smite Evil Detect Evil Favored Enemy (evil) Exalted Animal Companion as Druid 10 Bardic Knowledge as Bard 15 Good skills Look up the Diplomancer build (I do not have the link). Anything that aids that build helps this one. And if the fiends don't like your new message of love and redemption, you have all the tools you need to smite them down.
Jolly Josh 08-24-05, 10:45 AM	well the campaign started last night without time for us to optimize... err... i mean prepare. heheh. But! My choice for a character was a result of filling in the party gaps. I really need help now. My starting character: Half-Giant 1/Warlock 2 Half-Giant 1/Psy Warrior 2 Str: 16 Dex: 8 Con: 14 Int: 11 Wis: 16 Cha: 16 House Rules for Gestalt: One side must be straight 20 levels. LA/bloodline/templates take up both sides. LA buyoff is allowed. Starting powers: Stomp 1/day Inertial Armor Expansion Starting invocations: Hideous Blow Earthen Grasp(sucks, found that out last night in play) Starting Feats: Power Attack Weapon Focus(Large Maul 2d8 x3) Improved Sunder Do you think I should take warlock all the way 20? i want imbue item and the best eldritch blast... imbue item will get me the greater chausible of fell power to boost eldritch blow. If i do that, maybe take psychic warrior into lilthid slayer(but the dm might let me focus it into demon slayer) or warmind. Need help in that area. Basically i'm the parties tank/crafter? WHAT? lol. Also my character is pretty M.A.D... so crafting will come in handy... +6 all around before too long oh, the other party members builds: Human Paladin//Monk 20 Human Cleric of WeeJas//Wizard hall of records librarian Changling Rogue/cabinet trickster//Wizard Changling sub 20
Erudite 08-24-05, 11:04 AM	In that case, go: Warlock 20 AND Psywarrior 10/Slayer 10 (use the SRD version of Illithid Slayer). I'm not a big fan of the warlock, since very little in a DND game amounts to tossing spells about all day, especially since the rest of the party will blow its load and want to rest. However, since Psionic characters are famous for blowing thier wads quickly, Warlock will balance that out. Slayer advances your HD and BAB, and provides some ridiculous bennies. You can toss on another PrC5 if you like, but there is not alot out there for Psionic characters. Take a look (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=227556&page=1&pp=30) at the King of Smack. You have the humanoid type or natural weapons, so sadly you can't truly pimp it out, but the basic idea works fine for selecting feats and powers for your Psywarrior. So, PW takes care of melee, and movement powers to escape Solid Fogs and Force Cages, and Warlock takes care of Invisibility and long range attacks. You might want to consider Vow of Poverty, depending on your game and the DM. Enjoy!
Jolly Josh 08-24-05, 11:09 AM	You might want to consider Vow of Poverty, depending on your game and the DM. Enjoy! the monk/paladin is VoP... and i'm a crafter... so i'm going to own alot of items I'm not a big fan of the warlock, since very little in a DND game amounts to tossing spells about all day, especially since the rest of the party will blow its load and want to rest. However, since Psionic characters are famous for blowing thier wads quickly, Warlock will balance that out. and yes, in the first encounter last night, the party blew its wad and there i was earthen grasping/eldritch blowing :)
Fanged Fremont 08-25-05, 10:59 PM	Probably not what you're looking for but I thought this would be a neat idea. I don't know much about spellcasters, me usually being the rogue and/or meatshield so you're own your own for feats and such but I think I remeber there being a shield caster feat so you don't have to have a hand empty to cast spells. If that works for arcane spells that might be nice to have if you could bump down the spell failure enough. I also don't know much about gestalt so some of these things might not stack. 1st Fighter/Cleric 2nd Fighter/Wizard 3rd Wizard/Cleric 4th Wizard/Cleric 5th Mystic Theurge/Spell Sword 6th Mystic Theurge/Spell Sword 7th Mystic Theurge/Spell Sword 8th Mystic Theurge/Spell Sword 9th Mystic Theurge/Spell Sword 10th Mystic Theurge/Spell Sword 11th Mystic Theurge/Spell Sword 12th Mystic Theurge/Spell Sword 13th Mystic Theurge/Spell Sword 14th Mystic Theurge/Spell Sword 15th Mystic Theurge/Spell Sword 16-20. Your choice. Theres enough prestige classes out there that you could bump your bab and diving spells to the max by level 20. You now can cast 9th level arcane and 7th level divine spells at level 14 and have a full BAB. Depending on the special materials you get you can be casting arcane spells in full plate as early as 8th level or as late as 14th level. You could also replace the SpellSword with Hospitaler, Shining Blade of Heronius, or Warmage for a simular effect but get your diving spells up faster sa appose to arcane. However you'll have to say goodbye to that fullplate.
Erudite 08-25-05, 11:08 PM	The rules for gestalt explicitly discourage the use of prestige classes which combine other classes, like MT. This makes your build less likely to be acceptable, although you never know what goes on in someone's game.
Snow Savant 08-25-05, 11:09 PM	Wow. So far I see a lot of illegal Gestalt builds ... and a lot of weak Gestalt builds. I think some folks need to re-read the parameters of Gestalt buildcraft. And then take into consideration issues of synergy benefits, covering weak areas, and M.A.D. avoidance. Especially in regards to things like saves (for example, Fighter-20/Barbarian-20 means "you lose" in Gestalt games), skill ranks, multiple uses of high stats.
Lovely Atsuko 08-25-05, 11:15 PM	So why isn't there a Gestalt Cheater of Mystra // H.I.V.E?
Erudite 08-25-05, 11:21 PM	Because you cannot have a gestalt of two prestige classes at the same time. So you could go Dweomercheater/Rogue 20, or Hive/Paladin of Slaughter 20, but that's it. Dweomercheater 20/Psion 20 is excessive.
Fanged Fremont 08-26-05, 12:03 AM	My apolgies for my post. I do not own Unearthed Arcana or have easy access to it or I assure you I would have read the gestalt things thoroughly before posting. I'm currently playing in a low level gestalt campaign where the question of prestige classes is just now turning up, but it will be a while before we get somewhere that would provide such classes. I kinda figured the build wouldn't work, but it's a nice thought isn't it?
batstek 08-26-05, 12:14 AM	I kinda like the idea of Fighter 10 / Warhulk 10 // Monk 20. Just gotta buyoff a cheap low LA large race, then go with all the TWF Flurry cheese with an incredible damage output. Dweomercheater or TwiceBetrayerOfShar // Psion 20 would be even more silly broken than either of those builds already are.
obrysii 08-26-05, 12:24 AM	A friend and I came up with one last night. We're not sure if it would have XP penalities, though: Erinyes 16/Paladin of Slaughter 3/Sorc 1//Cleric 5/Walker in the Waste 10/Cleric 5 The total stat modifiers at level 20 are: Str +12, Dex +10, Con --, Int +4, Wis +12, Cha +12 You'd also be virtually unkillable, having 5 phylactories which have Hardness equal to adamantine, Cha to HP and Cha to Saves, and 9th level spells.
slade_caizer 08-26-05, 02:03 AM	Paladin4/BoneKnight10/FistofRaziel6//Rogue20 or Paladin3/Cleric1/BoneKnight10/SacredExorcist6//Rogue20 Not sure if this is anything like you were aiming for, but I think it could do in a pinch. Nice immunities for walking the planes, divine spells for getting around, buffing, and such. Then there's the nice skills and tricks from Rogue.
DavidWL 08-26-05, 03:58 AM	A Warmage/Rainbow Servant Charisma build: Level Class 1/Class 2 1 Paladin/Warmage 2 Paladin/Warmage 3 Paladin/Warmage 4 Paladin/Warmage 5 Hexblade/Warmage 6 Warmage/Rainbow Servant 7 Hexblade/Rainbow Servant 8 Hexblade/Rainbow Servant 9 Warmage/Rainbow Servant 10 Feat Rogue/Rainbow Servant 11 Feat Rogue/Rainbow Servant 12 Warmage/Rainbow Servant 13 Fighter/Rainbow Servant 14 Fighter/Rainbow Servant 15 Warmage/Rainbow Servant 16 Warmage/Sorcerer 17 Warmage/Prestige Bard 18 Warmage/Exemplar 19 Warmage/Arcane Duelist 20 Warmage/Arcane Duelist About this build The character utilizes Warmage/Rainbow Servant + Prestige Bard to spontaneously cast any Warmage, Cleric, Bard, Good Domain, Air Domain, or Law Domain spell. All as a 20th level Warmage. The character empasizes the Cha score -- Cha to saves from paladin, Cha vs. spells from hexblade. Cha to AC from Arcane Duelist. Because he has turning (many times per day), we can also use the Feat Divine Shield to add Cha to AC (again). This uses fighter and feat rogue to get another 4 fighter feats. (Can help the Warmage's rays or help him be better as a fighting threat). End analysis: Decent BAB, Great Saves, Evasion and Mettle, Spontaneous casting of many spells (any of: Cleric, Bard, Warmage, 3 Domains) as a 20th level warmage. Ok hit points. Charisma is the only critical attribute. Please make this better I quite like this build and would be interested in seeing where it goes -- any feadback is most welcome. Some of the more questionable chioces: 2 levels of paladin for Turn Undead. 2 levels of Fighter for 2 fighter feats. 1 level of Exemplar for skill mastery (Concentrate?, UMD?) 2 levels of Arcane Duelist for Cha to AC ...Perhaps change out some of those levels to add in 1 or 3 levels of Marshal? A questionable use of the rules: I assumed that having 1 level of prestige bard put all of the bard spells on your spell list. The character has 2 arcane spell lists (Warmage, Sorcerer) -- I'm assuming that we can choose to add the spell list ot the Warmage (similarly with future increases in spell caster level, if we took them). As an a feat-intensive alternative, we could take the "Extra Spell" feat 3 times and only have Warmage casting. Does this change things? Do you agree? Disagree?
DavidWL 08-26-05, 04:22 AM	A Chameleon Build Level Class 1 Class 2 1 Feat Rogue/Hexblade 2 Feat Rogue/Hexblade 3 Warlock/Hexblade 4 Warlock/Fighter 5 Warlock/Fighter 6 Fighter/Chameleon 7 Fighter/Chameleon 8 Fighter/Chameleon 9 Fighter/Chameleon 10 Ranger/Chameleon 11 Ranger/Chameleon 12 Ranger/Chameleon 13 Ranger/Chameleon 14 Ranger/Chameleon 15 Ranger/Chameleon 16 Fighter/Exemplar 17 Blackguard/Feat Rogue 18 Blackguard/Feat Rogue 19 Blackguard/Feat Rogue 20 Blackguard/Feat Rogue About this Build Has evasion + mettle (any a gestalt build, is there any reason *not* to?). Has Cha to saves and Cha to saves vs spells. (Once again, any reason not to?) Has 10th level Chameleon Spells (6th level divine, 6th level arcane -- any spells). Is a good skill monkey. Is a very powerful fighter, with a very high bab and 8 fighter feats + 2 ranger feats. Problem: Somewhat MAD -- play an Illumian to somewhat ease the spellcasting burden. We still need: High STR/CON (for combat) Cha -- for Saves 16 Int & Wis (for spellcasting) End Analysis: Powerful Fighter, Powerful Skillmonkey, Very good saves + Mettle and Evasion, Decent and *Very* Flexible Spellcaster. A little MAD.
DavidWL 08-26-05, 04:27 AM	Thoughts about baseline rules for Gestalt builds Since you get the best aspect of a class on any given level, you can do something like: Fighter1/Wizard19 + Sorcerer 20 for BAB = 20 The sorcerer and wizard alternate levels where they get an increase in BAB This is rather ... uninteresting -- so I would recommend we always use BAB stacking with Gestalt characters. Adding races makes things potentially *much* more powerful. For the time being *I* won't consider that. A rule for Gestalts I would argue that, with a few rare exceptions, there is no excuse for a Gestalt *not* to have good saves. Since we also much prefer base classes, I would argue that from an optimization perspective, most gestalts should have: In 7 base class levels: Paladin 2/Hexblade 3/(Something with Evasion -- Feat Rogue 2 or Monk 2)=> CHA to Saves, and Cha to Saves vs. Spells BAB 6 2 Feats (Monk or Fighter) Trapfinding or Flurry A tip for Gestalts We can use the fact that we have 2 classes side-by-side to make dips that we couldn't otherwise, and still preserve Spellcaster Level or BAB.
DavidWL 08-26-05, 04:42 AM	Cleric/Fighter with Paladin and Ranger spells Level Class 1 Class 2 1 Hexblade/Cleric 2 Hexblade/Cleric 3 Hexblade/Cleric 4 Hexblade/Cleric 5 Feat Rogue/Cleric 6 Feat Rogue/Prestige Paladin 7 Cleric/Prestige Paladin 8 Cleric/Prestige Ranger 9 Fighter/Prestige Ranger 10 Fighter/Prestige Paladin 11 Cleric/Anything … 12 Cleric/Anything … 13 Cleric/Anything … 14 Cleric/Anything … 15 Cleric/Anything … 16 Cleric/Anything … 17 Cleric/Anything … 18 Cleric/Anything … 19 Cleric/Anything … 20 Cleric/Anything … About this Build Once again, has Cha to saves, Cha to Spell saves, evasion and mettle. Casts as a 20th level Cleric w/ access to Paladin and Ranger spells. Has a BAB of at least 17 Has 10 levels of room to specialize. Is a little MAD.
Snow Savant 08-26-05, 06:42 AM	DavidWL has the right on idea on his Gestalt optimization ideas. Often times, strong Gestalt builds can be amazingly simple to build. For example, Druid-20/Rogue-20 is a massive powerhouse of a build that covers all weaknesses and makes for an earthshattering melee, spell, and stealth combatant. And of course, it's an unparalleled skill monkey. OTOH, incredibly complex Gestalt builds can be made as well that allow for the accumulation of an absolute ton of class abilities. Besides David's assessment that all saves should be good, it's a relatively smart idea as well to have at least 1 side of your Gestalt build be a primary spellcaster, psion/wilder, or artificer. The game mechanics of these specific classes are undeniably the most powerful and versatile ones in the game. And last, it's really embarrassing to look at so-called Gestalt builds that run 20 levels of 2 skills/level classes. That pretty much means you royally suck outside of combat as well as being incapable of providing much as a key party component. Gestalting is not hard. But it's also your best chance in the game to make an amazing multi-dimensional character while still being a superstar specialist. Don't waste that opportunity!
Erudite 08-26-05, 08:51 AM	A friend and I came up with one last night. We're not sure if it would have XP penalities, though: One house rule we came up with a few years ago, when we played a few gestalt sessions, was to say that one 'side' (yes, there are no sides to gestalt, officially), had to be your race's favored class. Thus an elf would always have Wiz 20. On the otherside you could do your regular thing. This had the effect of making the rare gestalt characters particular paragons of their race. It also keeps humans attractive, as they are begining to lose their luster (after several days of hard thinking, even I can't see why I would, for CO reasons, choose a human for a wizard at this point. An Arcane Whisper Gnome or Otherwordly Sun/Grey Elf seems to be the schnizz). When I think of gestalt builds, I try to start with something simple, then improve/tinker with it. An example is below, one of my favorites: Ranger 20/Wizard 20. But then again, I love woodsey types who have a three-day beard and can handle themselves without being nurse-maided. Like Aragorn, with Gandalf powers. The more complicated version(takes a slight hit to skills): Ranger 2/Favored Soul 6/Windwalker 3/Harper Paragon 8/Divine Oracle 2 AND Wizard 18/Witch Hunter 2 (Yes, Sorc would be more optimized, I know). 9th level arcane and divine, air walk at will, cha to saves, a form of evasion, animal companion, bardic knowledge, smite evil, detect evil, favored enemy (evil). Not the most buff, but a favorite in my own head. Other nice and simple gestalts(and the upgrades) are: Wizard 20-Cloist.Cleric 20--> Wizard/Dweomerkeeper - Cloist.Cleric 20 Wizard 20-Druid 20 --> Wiz/Io7V/Harp - Druid 20 Wizard 20-Rogue 20 --> Killer Illusionist - Martial Wilderness Rogue 20 Wizard 20-Fighter 20 --> lame. see build right above this one. Cleric 20 - Fighter 20 --> Cloist.Cleric 13/Ranger 7 - Fighter 4/Ranger1/Prestige Paladin 15 Cleric 20 - Rogue 20 --> Cleric 6/ Radient Servant of Ehlonna 7/ Sacred Exorcist 6/ Contemplative 1 - Martial Wilderness Rogue 20 Have to go.
Jolly Josh 08-26-05, 10:06 AM	our house rule is straight 20 levels of something(can use subtitution levels) on one side and that class doesn't count against XP penalty
The Debonair Swordsman 08-26-05, 11:54 AM	Never really tried a Gestalt before but i think a monk/fighter would kick ass. Add Weapon Master from Sword and Fist
jameswilliamogle 08-26-05, 12:43 PM	monk 20/druid 20. just cool abilities all around, and not so much MAD.
Eidolon Faer 08-26-05, 03:36 PM	Edited due to a miscalculation in spell progression. 1 Sorcerer / Ranger 2 Sorcerer / Hexblade 3 Sorcerer / Ranger 4 Sorcerer / Hexblade 5 Sorcerer / Rogue 6 Mindbender / Rogue 7 Sorcerer / Mindbender 8 Mindbender / Ranger 9 Sorcerer / Master Transmogrifist 10 Master Transmogrifist / Rogue 11 Master Transmogrifist / Hexblade 12 Sorcerer / Master Transmogrifist 13 Master Transmogrifist / Hexblade 14 Master Transmogrifist / Rogue 15 Sorcerer / Master Transmogrifist 16 Master Transmogrifist / Ranger 17 Master Transmogrifist / Rogue 18 Sorcerer / Master Transmogrifist 19 Sorcerer / Mindbender 20 Mindbender / Rogue Ends up with casting as a 20 Sorcerer, Evasion and Mettle, and all the funky abilities of a Master Transmogrifist 10 and a Mindbender 5. Oh, and you get to add Charisma to all saves against spells or spell-like abilities. The Ranger, Rogue, and Hexblade levels are interleaved to keep them within 1 level of each other at all times, avoiding Multiclassing penalties. And for some reason I like having +3d6 Sneak Attack and being able to transform to a Darktentacles.
Eidolon Faer 08-26-05, 04:21 PM	Also, Hexblade / Bard synergizes nicely. Both ignore ASF in light armor, both are Charisma-driven, and they're different enough to offer some nice synergy. You'd be a natural for any number of PrC's, including the Sublime Chord. I'm also liking the possibility of the following: 1 Druid / Monk (take feat to get Knowledge (the planes) in-class) 2 Druid / Monk 3 Druid / Monk 4 Druid / Monk 5 Druid / Monk 6 Druid / Acolyte of the Skin 7 Acolyte of the Skin / Hexblade 8 Druid / Acolyte of the Skin 9 Acolyte of the Skin / Hexblade 10 Druid / Acolyte of the Skin 11 Acolyte of the Skin / Hexblade 12 Druid / Acolyte of the Skin 13 Acolyte of the Skin / Hexblade 14 Druid / Acolyte of the Skin 15 Acolyte of the Skin / Hexblade 16 Sacred Fist / Hexblade 17 Sacred Fist / Hexblade 18 Sacred Fist / Hexblade 19 Arcane Heirophant / Hexblade 20 Sacred Fist / Hexblade Or, if you prefer, you can substitute nearly any core class for the Hexblade above, Fighter or Spellthief might be interesting, and replace the Arcane Heirophant with Sacred Fist.
Leewei 08-26-05, 05:42 PM	01-Monk/Fighter 02-Monk/Fighter 03-Monk/Ranger 04-Monk/Ranger 05-Monk/Ranger 06-Paladin/Sorceror 07-Monk/Ranger 08-Monk/Ranger 09-Monk/Pious Templar 10-Monk/Dragon Disciple 11-Monk/Dragon Disciple 12-Monk/Dragon Disciple 13-Monk/Dragon Disciple 14-Paladin/Dragon Disciple 15-Paladin/Dragon Disciple 16-Paladin/Dragon Disciple 17-Paladin/Dragon Disciple 18-Paladin/Dragon Disciple 19-Paladin/Dragon Disciple 20-Monk/Horizon Walker (Underground) Start as Human. Worship Bahumat. Take Ascetic Knight feat at level 6 to allow better Smiting and Unarmed Strike damage, plus effective multiclassing. The character ends up with a BAB+19, and a Flurry progression of +19/+19/+19/+14/+9/+4. Damage is dealt as a Large monk -- 4d8 at level 20. The DD PrC grants a ton of stat bonuses* which helps to offset the multiple attribute dependency. The character also gains Weapon Specialization (Unarmed) and two enemies against which he gains +4 or +2 damage (I'm thinking Evil Outsider and Dragon for flavor). Attacks hit extremely hard, and he gets a lot of them. Divine Might feat is another possibility if you feel like gilding the damage lily. Improved Critical feat combines with Bless Weapon to do something ugly, especially with all the attacks. Whip out a Scroll of Holy Sword and listen for the screaming to start. Saves are impressive due to good progressions, Divine Grace, and Evasion and Mettle class features. AC is aided by Natural Armor progression. The wealth of BAB and access to Tumbling also allows improved Defensive Fighting for an additional +3 Dodge in trade for -4 Attack. He is immune to Fear, Poison, Sleep, Paralysis and Disease. Senses are also good, although a bit top-heavy. DD PrC grants Darkvision and Blindsense. Paladin allows Detect Evil at will. Horizon Walker adds +60' Darkvision. * DD grants Str+8 Dex+2 Con+2 Int+2 Cha+2.
SigmaJargon 08-26-05, 05:47 PM	I've been thinking about use of a Sharn in a Gestalt game - or at least of how powerful a Sharn gestalt could potentially be. Sharn LA 1 / Sharn HD 1 Sharn LA 2 / Sharn HD 2 Sharn LA 3 / Sharn HD 3 Sharn LA 4 / Sharn HD 4 Sharn LA 5 / Geomancer 1 Sharn HD 6 / Geomancer 2 Sharn HD 7 / Geomancer 3 Sharn HD 8 / Geomancer 4 Sharn HD 9 / Geomancer 5 Sharn HD 10 / Geomancer 6 Sharn HD 11 / Geomancer 7 Sharn HD 12 / Geomancer 8 Cleric 1 / Geomancer 9 Cleric 2 / Geomancer 10 Cleric 3 / Wild Mage 1 Cleric 4 / Wild Mage 2 Cleric 5 / Wild Mage 3 Cleric 6 / Wild Mage 4 Cleric 7 / Wild Mage 5 Cleric 8 / Wild Mage 6 Full clerical, 22nd level sorcerer spellcasting, and d8 hit dice, with all the benefits of being a Geomancer and a Sharn thrown in. The last 6 levels are actually kind of a toss up - I put in Wild Mage for flavor, but you could easily replace it with something havng higher BAB, skill points/level, HD, etc. You can also choose to advance your Sharn HD or your cleric levels from level 6 on - I chose Sharn HD because they have all the benefits of being a cleric, but have the added incentive of size increase.
slade_caizer 08-26-05, 06:02 PM	Paladin3/Hexblade3/Monk4/Ur-Priest10//Sorcerer20 Sounds like a little bit of fun. Sadly it'll have to deal with crappy skills once again. Still, most people will be happy with 9th level arcane and divine spells, Divine Grace, Divine Health, Mettle, and Evasion. BAB should be nearly full if my timing was right. I think the reflex save will be somewhat lacking, but it shouldn't be too crippling. HP won't be great, but it can be augmented easily.
Fanged Fremont 08-26-05, 07:05 PM	edited for pure crap. I should read the class descriptions better.
tseb 08-26-05, 07:38 PM	I think a scout 20//fighter 2/swash 3/dervish 2/champion of corellon 2/dervish 3-10/tempest 3 would be kinda neat. Full skirmishing + dervish dance + 3 stats to damage rolls. d10 hp all the way through. And you're a skill monkey to boot. Plus, almost every class feature you have works in an anti-magic field (all but Corellon's blessing).
AramilWindwalker 08-26-05, 07:41 PM	don't forget the full BAB and almost purely d10 hd
Mysk 08-26-05, 07:56 PM	Okay. Firstly I am just wondering this. Is it even officialy allowed to take HD And LA for a 'side' of the Gestalt while taking a class on the other 'side'. To me that'd seem insanely powerful to pull out Savage Species and just go to town. Ahem. With my question outa the way. My contribution is a Changeling Rogue 5/Chameleon 1/Cabinet Trickster 5/Chameleon 2-10///Warlock 20 A be anyone and anything build with a slew of spell like abilities and tricks up his sleave. Insanely versatile. Make use of the cherry picking Chameleon spell list to grab all of those spells to keep up your charade. Make use of the Imbue Item warlock ability and the Chameleon Bonus Feat to make any item. Or take extra invocation on a whim to change up your spell like abilities a little bit for circumstances on your disguise or whatnot. The only qualm that I could think of would be getting it by your DM how you'd be able to be in 2 different organizations.
EvilVegan 08-26-05, 10:46 PM	You're concerned with a cabinet trickster / chameleon being able to trick his way into two separate organizations?! HAHAHA! Um as far as I know LA takes up both sides of the build. My gestault build is Rogue 3 / Swash 3 / Warshpaer 4 / Cab Trick 5 (maybe) / ?!?! // Wiz 20. I'm the changeling mentioned above by the OP. I'm not trying to optimize, I just wanted to speak up. I'm trying to simply have fun (which I AM!). Gestault wrocks, and it isn't as overpowered as I thought it was going to be.
Mysk 08-26-05, 11:07 PM	You're right... :p Was thinking from a DM's point of view of "So they haven't used the same powers to kill you before crossing secrets?" kind of thing... eh... I dunno. Meh kinda silly come to think of it. As long as it doesn't go against True Seeing it should be set to out trick anything. And if all else fails... Shadowwalk or Retributive Invis away!... right. well i'm off to bed then. >.>
Fanged Fremont 08-27-05, 03:21 PM	Bah humbug, I thought a 3rd level swashbuckler got their int to attack not damage. kinda silly to worry about 3 or 4 more damage when I'll be focusing on doing made amounts of sneak attack damage.
colm_l 08-28-05, 05:11 AM	The trouble with Gestalt is parts of it are very loosely worded. I mean the part about no prestige classes which duplicate 2 other classes. Sure, Eldritch knight qualifies (wizard, fighter) but what about Knight Phantom (same abilities & more)? Some are pretty easy to identify - others less so. Ranger/Sorc or Wiz gives full BAB, full casting, 3 good saves, D8 hit dice, & 6 skill points a level. Neither is bad for filler between class features. Hmmm. Strikes me that in Gestalt - Dragon Disciple suddenly becomes a much stronger choice. Bonus spell slots (stacking with caster level increases on the other side) & boosts to abilities, D12 HD 2 good saves (missing reflex unfortunately) & a 3/4 BAB (can patch the missing 3 levels with Full BAB or different time started 3/4 BAB classes) Edited - found the gestalt rules online at http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm 7 the arcane trickster was mentioned