Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fiendish monkey 07-27-03, 04:08 PM	for level 10 creature just with core: (see you do better). 1 sor/ 4 fighter/ 5 dragon disciple: choose enlarge person as sorcerer spell. half orc:base str 20 add 2 points for character level. 4 points for dragon disciple level. +2 for the enlarge person spell TOTAL:28 (+9) feat:improved grapple(+4) large size due to enlarge person spell:+4 to grapple. total grapple bonus BEFORE BAB: +17 after BAB: +24 AFTER item that gives +4 to strength (available at level 10): +26 if weapon focus/specialization can be taken for grapple:+27 if greater magic fang effects grapple check get item for this thing to. (maybe that monk fist item?) DAMAGE: high very very high(remember that a large DD have three attacks with nice damage, take mulitattack) no GIANT is safe from my grappling bonus. PLUS you get good will and for saves, blind sense, nice hit dice,a little natural armor, breath weapon, 3 extra feats,darkvision. skills suc but it is irrelevent because blindsense+darkvision and the blindfight feat if taken. who can take out this grapple monster? for super killing: take spiked chain and when you are large you hit anything within 20 feet reach with damage: 2d6+15 (about 15 that is) your trip and disarm bonuses are sick too I think. so maybe improved trip is good to for this built for extra sickness. if yo take combat reflexes you can attack of oppurtunity even if flat footed. if you manage to take whirlwind later on you can easily trip or damage practicly anything (including giants and golems) WITHIN 20 feet reach any constructive advice, comments? QUESTIONS:the following affect grapple checks: magic fang, weapon focus, weapon specialization. can spell like abilitys be used when you are pinned?
youspoonybard 07-27-03, 04:42 PM	Hmmm. Level 10, eh? Druid 10. Take IUS/Improved Grapple/Natural Spell Wildshape into a Polar Bear, then cast Animal Growth on yourself. Base Polar Bear Str = 27 (+8 to grapple) Animal Growth = +8 Str (+4 to grapple) Huge Size = +8 to grapple Improved Grapple = +4 to grapple The +4 str item = +2 to grapple. 8+8+4+4+2 = +26 to grapple checks. Then, there's the +7 BAB, for a total of +33 to grapple checks. Even if you don't want to take Improved Grapple, that's still +29 to grapple, and as a polar bear, you have the Improved Grab special ability.
Podo-Smash 07-27-03, 04:46 PM	The key is, is to wildshape into something feline, that way you can get pounce with those free rake attacks in on your grapple.
Prism 07-27-03, 04:51 PM	Originally posted by youspoonybard Hmmm. Level 10, eh? Druid 10. Take IUS/Improved Grapple/Natural Spell Wildshape into a Polar Bear, then cast Animal Growth on yourself. Base Polar Bear Str = 27 (+8 to grapple) Animal Growth = +8 Str (+4 to grapple) Huge Size = +8 to grapple Improved Grapple = +4 to grapple The +4 str item = +2 to grapple. 8+8+4+4+2 = +26 to grapple checks. Then, there's the +7 BAB, for a total of +33 to grapple checks. Even if you don't want to take Improved Grapple, that's still +29 to grapple, and as a polar bear, you have the Improved Grab special ability. You could do barb1/druid9 for an extra +2 from rage
fiendish monkey 07-27-03, 04:57 PM	oh, I'm sorry. BUT level ten druids have a ten hit die cap on what creatures they can be in 3.5 no way you find a 10 hit die animal that is a better grappler then me or have such a nice reach and tripping chance are ther non who can grapple better then my beast?
youspoonybard 07-27-03, 04:59 PM	Originally posted by fiendish monkey oh, I'm sorry. BUT level ten druids have a ten hit die cap on what creatures they can be in 3.5 no way you find a 10 hit die animal that is a better grappler then me or have such a nice reach and tripping chance are ther non who can grapple better then my beast? Polar Bears have 8-HD, and are large, thus you can turn into one at level 8. It just gets worse as the levels increase. Dire Bears at level 12. Elephants at level 15. Giant Squids then too. Hmm..raging isn't a bad idea either.
fiendish monkey 07-27-03, 05:11 PM	druids of the coast? I wanna make a great fighting dude but with nice will saves. everything pales compared to druid? (and the bastard clerics). can the rule of druids as fighting beasts be overthrone? can someone fight better then a druid in some ingenius tactic or min/max in 3.5?
youspoonybard 07-27-03, 05:13 PM	Sure. Druids aren't good at ranged combat. Of course, you just asked for the best grappler here, and monsters tend to be the best of those, hence the Wild Shape.
Funny Slaughter 07-27-03, 05:19 PM	LOL, another wannabe-troll-thread crying loud "best!" without any proof :) feral half-ogre barbarian 8, base str 18, adjusted 28, with levels 30, with items (16000 for +4 is well done for a lvl 10 char) 34, in rage 38, enlarged 40. grapple: BAB 8 + str-mod 15 + 4 improved grapple + 8 due to huge size = + 35 and this is really simple, i am sure that there are many more ways to improve this, a simple search would surely show some... hmm, lets see, + 26 was your mark: feral half-ogre barbarian 2 (enlarged by spell): 12 (str) + 8 (huge) + 4 (imp. grab) + 2 (BAB) = + 26 my ECL 4 char is on par with your ECL 10 char, and this without anything funky. maybe reconsider to use words like "best" in your topic and take some lurking and searching over here before posting stuff like this. gs Funny
fiendish monkey 07-27-03, 05:33 PM	to market your thread you have to make promises of big,new and better then ther rest products. just look at my other posts. "best" is a marketing tool,nothing more. however don't use use weird races only core for this min max. half ogre is going to be stoned in most civilized cities AND your will save sucks leading to an uplayable char. how about a playable grappler? by the way, thanks for the speedy feedback. also, can a nitch be found for the dragon disciple now that we find that a druid is much much better? in the range department a large bow does 2d6+10 damage (with high str)but i have a lowsy to hit modifer.
Prism 07-27-03, 05:34 PM	Originally posted by Funny Slaughter feral half-ogre barbarian 2 (enlarged by spell): Technically Half Orge is a giant type and not affected by enlarge person so you are at -5 from your grapple.
youspoonybard 07-27-03, 05:37 PM	I would look at the Half Dragon as being useful for his wings. Try to design something around those. Flying Archer? Mage Killer? Plus he has the breath weapons. See if you could come up a cool character design using those as a basis.
fiendish monkey 07-27-03, 05:48 PM	wings are not a major feature of dragon disciple because they come late so I cant build something around it. str bonuses and claws and bite are major features of the class. therefore i bieleve this class is meant to be a grappler. breath weapon is once in a day so not a major feature of the class. maybe a combination with another class or prestige class will work? It just seems the dragon disciple is not a strong prestige in practic (compared to a druid), but strong on paper.
youspoonybard 07-27-03, 06:00 PM	Well, in all honesty, your character does have a really good grapple modifier. It's not the best, but I'm sure he can do a lot with it.
Funny Slaughter 07-27-03, 06:02 PM	Technically Half Orge is a giant type and not affected by enlarge person so you are at -5 from your grapple. seems that you are right, i was in a hurry :) as you typing these typoe :angel: gs Funny
Prism 07-27-03, 06:05 PM	Originally posted by Funny Slaughter seems that you are right, i was in a hurry :) as you typing these typoe :angel: gs Funny A Raging Orge is a sight to behold I tell you! :D
fiendish monkey 07-27-03, 06:07 PM	since where i live it is the middle of the night(1 o'clock) AND english is not my mother language AND i am out of ideas i will say goodby for now. darn DD good concept but good playablilty?
KAVU2002 07-27-03, 09:23 PM	Yeah, well the druid is either the best or almost the best. And, the druid DOES have nine spell levels, good will saves, spontaneous summoning, the new barkskin animal companions....
Moherajikuyx 07-28-03, 02:55 PM	But your build was core! You're welcome to try out if your build is powerful and survivable in the 3.5 Core Arena (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69394)!
Funny Slaughter 07-28-03, 03:14 PM	Moherajikuyx, stop spamming please. i think there will be enough people reading your arena-thread, its pretty obvious and easy to find. gs Funny
jtgalt 07-28-03, 03:41 PM	I used a 1/2 dragon-1/2 Celestial monk for my grappler. He was level 7 and had a Grapple bonus (w/o items) of 30, was Large size naturally, and had Improved Grapple and "Earth's Embrace"(from OA).
MikeN 07-28-03, 09:19 PM	There can be no Feral Half-Ogre anythings according to the rules! Half-ogre is type: giant Feral is a template that can only be applied to humanoids and monstrous humanoids. See what I'm getting at?