Best Melee Psion build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Melee Psion build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SnarkHunter
06-18-04, 06:19 PM I'm not saying I have it for sure but how's this for a jumping off point :). I plan to be playing him in an epic game (start at lvl 20) this fall.

Space cowboy-Human

1 ranger/2psion(egoist)/3 Paragon Human/10 Illithid Slayer/ 4psion

BAB: +16
17th Caster level. ~360PP

The last 5 psion could potentially be replaced by some other prestige class with a full caster progression and potentially cool abilities.

1 Ranger 1-Track, Exotic Weapon (spiked chain) Fav enemy: Outsiders (evil)
2 Psion 1-Overchannel
3 Psion 2-Combat Expertise
4 Paragon Human 1- Ability point +1int
5 PH 2-Improved Trip
6 PH 3- +3Int, Expanded knowledge (Expansion)
7 Slayer1
8 Slayer2 +4int
9 Slayer3 Psionic Meditation
10Slayer4
11 Slayer5
12 Slayer6 Metamorphic Transfer +5int
13 Slayer7
14 Slayer8
15 Slayer9 Combat Reflexes
16 Slayer10+6int
17 Psion 3
18 Psion 4 Mind Over body
19 Psion 5 Talented
20 Psion 6 +7int

Ability layout is a little tricky given various stat requirements for feats-but an int of 13 is required (and as this is your primary stat it should really be quite high), as is a wis of 13, a dex of 13, and a con of 13. Dump charisma yay!

Mind over body probably isn’t required-but I really would like to use the fun egoist power Psychofeedback (not as great as it used to be but still great), and that mitigates it

Things I’d like with this-Awesome blow, somehow. If only to smack people back and forth between me and my duplicate, getting attacks of opp all the time-natch.

A high level telepath to use psychic chirugery to give me schizm (and maybe empathic transfer, hostile). Sure Temporal Acceleration is better, but why not use both?

a +1 adamantium Keen mindfeeder Spiked chain of Collision (are there any enhancements that can cause a weapon to increase in size?) Possibly psychic since he should have a fairly large reserve of power at most times.

Something large and dangerous with 15 HD I can turn into with metamorphis. And something much larger and more dangerous for use with Greater Metamorphosis. (Personally I like this a little more then Shapechange. I guess I stomack 200xp better then that material cost).

I’m eager to hear suggestions- my feat list I must say is pretty vanilla, so on that point in particular help would be appreciated. I’ve got a pretty nice Manifester level, any Metapsionic feats that would be useful? Extend comes to mind. Edit as does quicken.
SnarkHunter
06-18-04, 09:52 PM hmm, a fair number of views, but no posts.

Troublesome.

I may post a preliminar power list tomorrow, something I'd also appreciate advice on.
Vodalen
06-18-04, 11:23 PM Personally, I think the best melee psionic character is the psychic warrior, by a large margin.

Sure, you don't get nearly as many powers or power points, but the powers you do get are closely focused on making you better in combat. Psions are only better once they get greater metamorphosis, which is even more broken than shapechange since the limit in HD is double your manifester level. Just turn into some 40 HD monstrosity from the epic handbook and destroy everything in your path.

I'd pick up stand still, it works great in combination with expansion and reach weaponry. Hostile empathic transfer is also an excellent power for the melee psion, well worth a feat.
Surgo
06-19-04, 12:01 AM Lack of Dragonslayer-like PrCs can be a real annoyance when building these things. But we work with what we have, and here's one I like:

Fighter 1/Shaper 6/Elocater 4/Illithid Slayer 9

BAB +16
ML 17

1: Dodge
1:
1:
2: Overchannel
3: Mobility
6: Spring Attack
6: Talented
9: Track
12:
15:
18: Expanded Knowledge: Fate of One

I don't know if Elocater's BAB requirement is a typo or not, but Spring Attack requires +4 in either case. Battlefield Control in this build would be a good focus, as you're picking up Spring Attack. Most of the feat slots here are free, the Fate of One power is just too good to pass up.
SnarkHunter
06-19-04, 11:51 PM I saw a claw build for a psychic warrior that was floating around, but that was about it. For the versatility you get in combat with a psion (energy stun with a schizemed personality then whomp with chain) I don't think its an apt comparison.

Also Standstill is nice but Large and In Charge seems better in every way.
Magagumo
06-20-04, 06:44 PM Of course, Shapechange's cost is a focus, so it doesn't need to be paid each time you use it. In fact, this is possibly why Greater Metamorphosis is better, since 200 xp equates 1000 gp, and that must be paid each time. Also, manifester levels don't increase beyond 20th level (unlike Shapechange) so the more ML you give up during the 1st 20 levels, the lesser creatures you can snag.

Also, you must be familiar with the form, so the smart GM will not allow you to attain a shape until you have met, fought, and likely studied an epic creature's body before taking any of their forms.

An alternative would be to require you to have a Knowledge bonus high enough to allow you to identify the creature entirely (i.e their HD + 20 is a good rule, as per the PHB's HD +10 and +5 for every aidditonal piece of knowledge). Even with skill boosting tiems, it can be tricky to full ID a creature reliably. S ince this build doesn't have a lot of knowledge skills, perhaps magical beasts, constructs, dragons, and other Knowledge (arcana/psionics) ID'd creatures could potentially be available without having me them, but Psions don't have that much inofrmation on the other types of epic creatures...

Unless your GM is insane (which he is) he really should follow these guidelines, and I'm sure you will be meeting with nasty epic beasties soon enough ;)

As for the build itself, I cannot locate any full ML prestige classes in my books (Dragonomicon, Expanded Psionics, Complete Divine, Complete Warrior).

In BoED, Celestial Mystic could be adapted to Psionics (no type of spell listed), but you're going to need 3 exalted deeds, and I'm not sure you have the room. It also looses a ML at 1st level.

BoVD, all lose MO at some point

Manual of Planes, Planeshifter loses a ML at 1st level- On that note, perhaps the new Planar Handbook could help provide a few new ideas?

Your spiked chain should also be buffed with Metaphysical Weapon (I'm hoping you were planning on this, because you'll need those bonuses to ensure you hit ;)).

Your GM might allow you to take Awesome Blow once you can regularly attain large size (Metamorphosis and even Exapnsion can allow this). A similiar rule is used for Druids who desire Multiatatck or Improved Natural Weapon, they just need access to 3 attacks or the natural weapon before they can take the feat.
Amadeo
06-20-04, 07:04 PM Maybe its not what you are looking for, but have you considered taking a wilder with the feral and the draconic template (only if you can buy the LA with the UA rules)?

Your ability scores would be quite nasty, and the d10 qualifies the character as a heavy fighter. Combine that with levels of ilithid slayer and you´ll have the following:

- at level 20: 19 manifester level with 20d10 hpd and a BaB +17 (with an amazing STR).
Ravashack
06-20-04, 07:04 PM Also, manifester levels don't increase beyond 20th level (unlike Shapechange) so the more ML you give up during the 1st 20 levels, the lesser creatures you can snag.

This is completely incorrect. Manifester levels increase above 20. :P Just look in the Epic Classes section of the SRD.

Edit: And on the long shot that you are saying that going above character level 20 kills manifester level progression, the only circumstance where that is true is when it is house ruled. Just like spellcasting classes, if you get a level in a manifesting class above character level 20, you gain the extra PP a day and powers up to the class level 20. Class levels and character levels are not the same thing!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SnarkHunter 06-18-04, 06:19 PM	I'm not saying I have it for sure but how's this for a jumping off point :). I plan to be playing him in an epic game (start at lvl 20) this fall. Space cowboy-Human 1 ranger/2psion(egoist)/3 Paragon Human/10 Illithid Slayer/ 4psion BAB: +16 17th Caster level. ~360PP The last 5 psion could potentially be replaced by some other prestige class with a full caster progression and potentially cool abilities. 1 Ranger 1-Track, Exotic Weapon (spiked chain) Fav enemy: Outsiders (evil) 2 Psion 1-Overchannel 3 Psion 2-Combat Expertise 4 Paragon Human 1- Ability point +1int 5 PH 2-Improved Trip 6 PH 3- +3Int, Expanded knowledge (Expansion) 7 Slayer1 8 Slayer2 +4int 9 Slayer3 Psionic Meditation 10Slayer4 11 Slayer5 12 Slayer6 Metamorphic Transfer +5int 13 Slayer7 14 Slayer8 15 Slayer9 Combat Reflexes 16 Slayer10+6int 17 Psion 3 18 Psion 4 Mind Over body 19 Psion 5 Talented 20 Psion 6 +7int Ability layout is a little tricky given various stat requirements for feats-but an int of 13 is required (and as this is your primary stat it should really be quite high), as is a wis of 13, a dex of 13, and a con of 13. Dump charisma yay! Mind over body probably isn’t required-but I really would like to use the fun egoist power Psychofeedback (not as great as it used to be but still great), and that mitigates it Things I’d like with this-Awesome blow, somehow. If only to smack people back and forth between me and my duplicate, getting attacks of opp all the time-natch. A high level telepath to use psychic chirugery to give me schizm (and maybe empathic transfer, hostile). Sure Temporal Acceleration is better, but why not use both? a +1 adamantium Keen mindfeeder Spiked chain of Collision (are there any enhancements that can cause a weapon to increase in size?) Possibly psychic since he should have a fairly large reserve of power at most times. Something large and dangerous with 15 HD I can turn into with metamorphis. And something much larger and more dangerous for use with Greater Metamorphosis. (Personally I like this a little more then Shapechange. I guess I stomack 200xp better then that material cost). I’m eager to hear suggestions- my feat list I must say is pretty vanilla, so on that point in particular help would be appreciated. I’ve got a pretty nice Manifester level, any Metapsionic feats that would be useful? Extend comes to mind. Edit as does quicken.
SnarkHunter 06-18-04, 09:52 PM	hmm, a fair number of views, but no posts. Troublesome. I may post a preliminar power list tomorrow, something I'd also appreciate advice on.
Vodalen 06-18-04, 11:23 PM	Personally, I think the best melee psionic character is the psychic warrior, by a large margin. Sure, you don't get nearly as many powers or power points, but the powers you do get are closely focused on making you better in combat. Psions are only better once they get greater metamorphosis, which is even more broken than shapechange since the limit in HD is double your manifester level. Just turn into some 40 HD monstrosity from the epic handbook and destroy everything in your path. I'd pick up stand still, it works great in combination with expansion and reach weaponry. Hostile empathic transfer is also an excellent power for the melee psion, well worth a feat.
Surgo 06-19-04, 12:01 AM	Lack of Dragonslayer-like PrCs can be a real annoyance when building these things. But we work with what we have, and here's one I like: Fighter 1/Shaper 6/Elocater 4/Illithid Slayer 9 BAB +16 ML 17 1: Dodge 1: 1: 2: Overchannel 3: Mobility 6: Spring Attack 6: Talented 9: Track 12: 15: 18: Expanded Knowledge: Fate of One I don't know if Elocater's BAB requirement is a typo or not, but Spring Attack requires +4 in either case. Battlefield Control in this build would be a good focus, as you're picking up Spring Attack. Most of the feat slots here are free, the Fate of One power is just too good to pass up.
SnarkHunter 06-19-04, 11:51 PM	I saw a claw build for a psychic warrior that was floating around, but that was about it. For the versatility you get in combat with a psion (energy stun with a schizemed personality then whomp with chain) I don't think its an apt comparison. Also Standstill is nice but Large and In Charge seems better in every way.
Magagumo 06-20-04, 06:44 PM	Of course, Shapechange's cost is a focus, so it doesn't need to be paid each time you use it. In fact, this is possibly why Greater Metamorphosis is better, since 200 xp equates 1000 gp, and that must be paid each time. Also, manifester levels don't increase beyond 20th level (unlike Shapechange) so the more ML you give up during the 1st 20 levels, the lesser creatures you can snag. Also, you must be familiar with the form, so the smart GM will not allow you to attain a shape until you have met, fought, and likely studied an epic creature's body before taking any of their forms. An alternative would be to require you to have a Knowledge bonus high enough to allow you to identify the creature entirely (i.e their HD + 20 is a good rule, as per the PHB's HD +10 and +5 for every aidditonal piece of knowledge). Even with skill boosting tiems, it can be tricky to full ID a creature reliably. S ince this build doesn't have a lot of knowledge skills, perhaps magical beasts, constructs, dragons, and other Knowledge (arcana/psionics) ID'd creatures could potentially be available without having me them, but Psions don't have that much inofrmation on the other types of epic creatures... Unless your GM is insane (which he is) he really should follow these guidelines, and I'm sure you will be meeting with nasty epic beasties soon enough ;) As for the build itself, I cannot locate any full ML prestige classes in my books (Dragonomicon, Expanded Psionics, Complete Divine, Complete Warrior). In BoED, Celestial Mystic could be adapted to Psionics (no type of spell listed), but you're going to need 3 exalted deeds, and I'm not sure you have the room. It also looses a ML at 1st level. BoVD, all lose MO at some point Manual of Planes, Planeshifter loses a ML at 1st level- On that note, perhaps the new Planar Handbook could help provide a few new ideas? Your spiked chain should also be buffed with Metaphysical Weapon (I'm hoping you were planning on this, because you'll need those bonuses to ensure you hit ;)). Your GM might allow you to take Awesome Blow once you can regularly attain large size (Metamorphosis and even Exapnsion can allow this). A similiar rule is used for Druids who desire Multiatatck or Improved Natural Weapon, they just need access to 3 attacks or the natural weapon before they can take the feat.
Amadeo 06-20-04, 07:04 PM	Maybe its not what you are looking for, but have you considered taking a wilder with the feral and the draconic template (only if you can buy the LA with the UA rules)? Your ability scores would be quite nasty, and the d10 qualifies the character as a heavy fighter. Combine that with levels of ilithid slayer and you´ll have the following: - at level 20: 19 manifester level with 20d10 hpd and a BaB +17 (with an amazing STR).
Ravashack 06-20-04, 07:04 PM	Also, manifester levels don't increase beyond 20th level (unlike Shapechange) so the more ML you give up during the 1st 20 levels, the lesser creatures you can snag. This is completely incorrect. Manifester levels increase above 20. :P Just look in the Epic Classes section of the SRD. Edit: And on the long shot that you are saying that going above character level 20 kills manifester level progression, the only circumstance where that is true is when it is house ruled. Just like spellcasting classes, if you get a level in a manifesting class above character level 20, you gain the extra PP a day and powers up to the class level 20. Class levels and character levels are not the same thing!