Best Metamagic Feats? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Metamagic Feats? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
mod5000
03-04-06, 05:33 AM What do you guys think are the best metamagic feats out there, and why?
Xeraph
03-04-06, 05:47 AM Empower: Because its fairly cheap and it gives good damage outcome.
Empower Power: Its all about the name baby!
Repeating: Its not Twin, but it almost does the same, just cheaper.
Widen: For the hordes, great one for the hordes.
Explosive: Flavor and crowd control. Great on cliffsides.
Sculpt: Again, crowd control.
Piercing Cold and Energy Substitution: Combo for teh win. Also works great with Cold Focus and Greater Cold Focues.
EvilVegan
03-04-06, 10:41 AM Any divine metamagic.
mod5000
03-04-06, 10:44 AM LoL, thanks for being so specific ^_^, but excluding the brokeness of divine metamagic, what would you take?
Caelic
03-04-06, 10:51 AM I assume we're also avoiding Artificer/Incantatrix metamagic cheese for purposes of this thread, so...hmm.

I'm gonna toss "Extend Spell" out there. It's like the utility hitter who gets no respect because he consistently hits singles and doubles, not homeruns. It's relatively cheap, doubles the value of buff spells, and (when used in conjunction with spells like Creeping Cold,) can turn a decent spell into a devastating one.
Bellinator
03-04-06, 10:55 AM I am a big fan of Sudden Empower.

Nothing like a sudden empowered Horrid Wilting or Firebrand.
Sang-Drax
03-04-06, 11:19 AM I am a big fan of Sudden Empower.

Nothing like a sudden empowered Horrid Wilting or Firebrand.

I often wonder why would anyone pick Sudden Empower instead of Sudden Maximize.
Xahr
03-04-06, 12:38 PM I often wonder why would anyone pick Sudden Empower instead of Sudden Maximize.

Because it's more fun to roll a lot of dice, than to know the outcome :D

Well, i guess that Sudden Maximize is better, though.
PhaedrusXY
03-04-06, 01:22 PM Piercing Cold and Energy Substitution: Combo for teh win. Also works great with Cold Focus and Greater Cold Focues.Don't forget Lord or the Uttercold for all your undead pals. :D
Timlagor
03-04-06, 02:24 PM Persistant if you can avoid paying for it.

Sculpt is the best value for money (esp for arcanists)

Empower for spontaneous casters.

Heighten is prety nice for DCs

Maximise for Sudden though I suppose Sudden Twin would be better ;)

Quicken is just obviously great.
Slyver
03-04-06, 03:32 PM Persistant if you can avoid paying for it.

Good to the point of breaking the game in some cases. I think we are avoiding such things in this thread. I.e., no incantrix, no DM. They are too obvious.

I like all of the suddens. Being able to apply metamagic on the fly is awesome. Grappled by a mountain giant? Sudden still dimension door. Touched somethng you shouldn't have and got teleported to the bottom of the ocean? Sudden silent saves your bacon. Not sure what you are going to face and don't want to take up all your high level slots? Sudden maximize and empower are great.

Everything else I can think of off the top of my head has been said. I would like to add one more thing though. It isn't exactly a metamagic feat, but it's in some ways closer to metamagic than crafting. Craft contingency spell is a feat absolutely no spellcaster should be without. It is the only must have feat for any wizard build, and pretty damn spiffy for any other arcane or divine caster as well.

Slyver
Sang-Drax
03-04-06, 03:50 PM Because it's more fun to roll a lot of dice, than to know the outcome :D

Well, i guess that Sudden Maximize is better, though.

Fair enough. :)

Though I guess Empower lets you add 150% of your rolled dice, not roll 150% of your normal number of dice.
mod5000
03-04-06, 04:02 PM LoL, actually, it's an increase by 50%, while Maximize (statistically speaking, since you usually roll half of your maximum) is an increase by 100%.
Bellinator
03-04-06, 04:09 PM I often wonder why would anyone pick Sudden Empower instead of Sudden Maximize.

Because I love to roll a ton of dice!!!
PhaedrusXY
03-04-06, 04:14 PM I like all of the suddens. Being able to apply metamagic on the fly is awesome. Grappled by a mountain giant? Sudden still dimension door. I agree about the Suddens (I think they're overpowered, actually), but you don't need to Still Dimension Door. The only components it has are Verbal. This of course makes Silenced Dimension Door a great spell to prepare. :D
diphycue
03-04-06, 04:57 PM Don't forget Lord or the Uttercold for all your undead pals. :D
Oh yeah...I love blasting an enemy, while in the radius myself...the Cold heals my Black Ice Golem, the Negative Energy heals me, and being immune to cold keeps me from getting hurt. Of course I usually Piercing Cold it, but still, the Neg Energy keeps me safe...being a Lich rules.
widow
03-05-06, 09:12 AM Although it is no longer a metamagic feat, you cannot beat Eschew Materials. I always hated having to come up with weird spell components and this feat eliminates them for about 95% of the spells in the book. Of course No Material components is nice to once you reach epic.
KAVU2002
03-05-06, 09:53 AM I can imagine three possible interpretations of your question.

Q1) What is the best feat to make my offensive arcane caster ROCK!

Q2) What is the best metamagic feat, regardless of prerequisites.

Q3) What is the best metamagic feat that is easy to obtain.

Here are my answers.

A1) Improved initiative or danger sense. Cast a devastating spell while they are still fumbling for components.

A2) sudden quicken. You effectively go twice. Yeah that is good I hear.

A3) sudden extend. Very useful for almost any caster. No prerequisites.
Vaelan
03-06-06, 05:22 AM Split Ray. It doubles the effect of single-ray spells and only adjusts the spell slot by two levels.
Runeblood7
03-06-06, 11:30 AM Vote: Chain Spell....great utility in offensive and defensive stuff.
ninjarabbit
03-06-06, 11:43 AM Generally speaking my 3 favorites are quicken spell, extend spell, and still spell, beyond that usually there's a better spell at that spell slot than the metamagiced spell.

The sudden spells are nice but I don't they're that overpowered.
Griff_Goodbeard
03-06-06, 11:58 AM At high levels, you really can't beat Quicken. Getting what amounts to an extra action is huge.
nameless
03-06-06, 10:10 PM I think Fell Drain from the Libris Mortis is excellent. On any spell that does damage over multiple turns, the negative levels stack up very quickly. Spiritual Weapon, Melf's Acid Arrow, Evard's Black Tentacles, Chilling Fog, just to name a few that I like. Plus, if you are into that sort of thing, you can apply fell drain to a ray of frost and turn villagers into wights.
tiercel
03-06-06, 11:32 PM I often wonder why would anyone pick Sudden Empower instead of Sudden Maximize.Because if you read the PHB's example of Empower, then "variable numeric" effects can include modifiers which get picked up in the Empower.

To wit, each Empowered magic missile does ( d4 + 1 ) * 1.5, not (d4) * 1.5 + 1.

If this is how you run Empower (in line with the example given, though you could argue the example seems strange if you read RAW strictly), in cases where a modifier is large compared to the die roll, Empower beats Maximize.

(eg) An 11th level druid casts fire seeds: holly berry bombs.

Sudden Maximized: Each bomb deals 19 damage.
Sudden Empowered: Each bomb deals (d8 + 11) * 1.5 = 18 to 28 damage (23 avg).

This differential is small but becomes larger as the caster level increases (at CL 20, Maximize does 28 damage while Empower does 37 damage avg).

If you accept the premise that modifiers get Empowered, and if you cast lots of spells with big modifiers, then Sudden Empower wins. (Of course, far more spells have damage dice without modifiers, so in general I would agree that Sudden Maximize is probably better even with this interpretation.)

-----------------

This argument aside, Empower can still occasionally beat Maximize. Consider the old standby, fireball (CL 10):

Sudden Maximized: 60 damage
Sudden Empowered: (10d6) * 1.5 = 15 - 90 damage (52 avg)

On average, Sudden Maximize is better, but if you are a riverboat gambler you might do better with Sudden Empower (even though you won't more often than you will), even in this non-controversial case. That, and as some people have already said, some people just like to roll lots of dice for those boom spells ;)
mod5000
03-06-06, 11:50 PM Erm ... I think you're a little off on what it says according to the RAW. Over here (or at least in my PHB), it says "All variable numerical effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half," which means that it wouldn't increase the strength of the static variables (like +X).
Dnjscott
03-06-06, 11:53 PM I usually go for an Innate cure light wounds or magic missile. It's not the most slam bang strategy in the world, but the prereqs are all reasonably useful and there are a lot of fun ramifications to being able to fire off a clw every six seconds. Like healing everyone on the road or in a crowd, etc.
tiercel
03-07-06, 12:52 AM Erm ... I think you're a little off on what it says according to the RAW. Over here (or at least in my PHB), it says "All variable numerical effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half," which means that it wouldn't increase the strength of the static variables (like +X).Yeah... but what I was referring to is, further down in the same paragraph in the PHB, it explicitly gives the example of magic missile doing 1.5 times the total of d4+1, rather than just the d4 alone. Without the example, I'd be inclined to agree with you, but it seems like the example is attempting to extend the definition to any random range (i.e. "2-5" as a random, Empowerable range), not just the actual dice. AFAIK, the correctness/incorrectness of the given example is not addressed in errata or FAQ.

So as not to totally derail things, I'll have to say that I think Sculpt Spell is pretty awesome as metamagic goes -- not only can you reshape a spell's AoE to the need of the situation, but for spells that affect small areas (e.g. grease, glitterdust) it's like getting Widen Spell for +1 spell level. Tasty.
Endar45
03-07-06, 01:17 AM As for me my favorite metamagic modifiers vary by class or build:
Cleric, Melee: Divine Metamagic Persistent Spell
I know, I know... but it's just soooo good... This feat combo is the fix that melee clerics need every morning when they pray for their spells.
Cleric, Healing: Divine Metamagic Twin Spell
Considering half of a healing spell's power is found in non-variable point increases, Divine MM Twinning these spells is very effective at creating sudden bursts of healing using your highest level heals. If you add Augment Healing to this, it's possible for you to add 2*SpellLevel points of healing, then double the whole thing.
Druids: Natural Spell
Yes, I realize this isn't metamagic, but it does modify magic in such a way as to render it VASTLY more useful. This is the one feat druids truly need. After this it's all fun and games, even after someone gets hurt. Seriously, though: without this, you just became the plucky comic relief of the group.
Gish, Melee: Arcane Strike.
Again, I realize this isn't metamagic, but it does let you modify a spell prior to "use". All melee gish get a few fighter feats, but those vary per build. Nearly all other builds have this feat, and for a good reason. Dropping a 5th level spell gives you +5 to hit and +5d4 damage on every successful hit until the beginning of your next round.
Gish, Melee: Extend
Look, a real metamagic feat! There are entire threads here devoted to 1 hour per level buffs; this low LA feat can make them last through most adventures starting as early as level 6-8, and at level 12 they'll last all night, too. A fantastic choice for anyone who relies upon (or grants) a lot of long-duration buffs.
General: Quicken
A spell effect AND the ability to full-attack, cast another spell, withdraw, or take any other round-consuming action. Fantastic!
Bloodlust_the_Bold
03-07-06, 01:42 PM where is the metamagic Innate come from ? :confused:
mod5000
03-07-06, 01:48 PM Complete Arcane, lets you make a spell become a spell-like ability, usable once per round ... great for Wish, if you're willing to pay the XP cost :D
Vaelan
03-07-06, 07:24 PM Complete Arcane, lets you make a spell become a spell-like ability, usable once per round ... great for Wish, if you're willing to pay the XP cost :D
Please read the feat in its entirety.

It requires the permanent expenditure of a spell slot eight levels higher than the spell to be made Innate. So if you have a seventeenth-level spell slot, then go for it. Those of us who don't play level 32 Wizards with poor feat choices will try not to let you hear us laugh.
diphycue
03-07-06, 07:55 PM Anyone else but me like Energy Admixture? A 20d6 fireball at 13th level, not too shabby...toss on a sudden maximize and you got yourself a stone groove.
Glanoric
03-07-06, 08:34 PM Anyone else but me like Energy Admixture? A 20d6 fireball at 13th level, not too shabby...toss on a sudden maximize and you got yourself a stone groove.

I think it doesn't really come into it's own post epic when you can easilly reduce the spell level cost. At that point it's one of the best.
tiercel
03-07-06, 08:41 PM Anyone else but me like Energy Admixture? A 20d6 fireball at 13th level, not too shabby...toss on a sudden maximize and you got yourself a stone groove.It's a big boom, to be sure, but you are also gambling that the 4 points of DC you are giving up (it's still a 3rd level spell, even though it takes up a 7th level slot) won't cause them to take half damage when they would have otherwise taken full damage against a 7th level spell.

Also, if you aren't Energy Admixturing with the base spell's energy type (e.g. a Fire-Admixtured Fireball), you're just as well off using Twin Spell for the same +4 spell level cost -- Twin Spell works on any spell, not just energy-based ones. If you are Admixturing a spell with its own energy type, then you have a single source of damage more likely to punch through energy resistance, but it means you've also chosen a Energy Substitution type that is more commonly resisted (instead of, say, acid).

If you like big elementalist booms, though, Admixture is pretty sweet once you can get around to using it. (You just need a high level game!)

One of my problems with metamagic generally is that most games I've played in seem to spend most of their times in the level 5-10 range, so metamagic that is more than +1 or +2 spell levels really just isn't feasible. (Divine Metamagic aside.)

Divine Metamagic, of course, depends to some extent on resources: do you have enough point buy (or good enough rolls) to have a nice CHA score, can you get CHA-boosting equipment relatively well, are you allowed Flaws to score Extra Turning feats, and/or can you buy nightsticks to get even more turn attempts/day.... you can still do it in a lower-resource campaign world, but almost your entire build has to revolve about the use of a single Divine Metamagic feat (probably Persistent). ...of course, once you're there, Persistent Divine Power et al are just stupid good.
Anor
03-08-06, 10:45 AM LoL, actually, it's an increase by 50%, while Maximize (statistically speaking, since you usually roll half of your maximum) is an increase by 100%.

Sure, a Maximize Spell is staistically a 100% gain over the usual but an Empower Spell can go beyond the damage/range of the original spell.

E.g. a 10th level Fireball will do 10d6 of damage. An Empowered Fireball would do 15d6. This can, in best case, result in 90 damage while a Maximized Fireball only will do 60.

So it's not always better with Maximize IMO.
mod5000
03-08-06, 11:09 AM Again, I said on average that it's better, since the example you gave would (most likely) only be viable if you used Empower AND Maximized at the same time.
Temjinstrife
03-08-06, 11:38 AM Wasn't there errata somewhere that said empower+Maximize on a 10d6 fireball = 60+5d6?

One of my players uses that Sudden combination fairly regularly, and I'd like to know if that it's an auto 90 or a 60+5d6.
mod5000
03-08-06, 11:57 AM In a short sentence, it is *not* overpowered for them to stack.
For more info, check this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=522167) out.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mod5000 03-04-06, 05:33 AM	What do you guys think are the best metamagic feats out there, and why?
Xeraph 03-04-06, 05:47 AM	Empower: Because its fairly cheap and it gives good damage outcome. Empower Power: Its all about the name baby! Repeating: Its not Twin, but it almost does the same, just cheaper. Widen: For the hordes, great one for the hordes. Explosive: Flavor and crowd control. Great on cliffsides. Sculpt: Again, crowd control. Piercing Cold and Energy Substitution: Combo for teh win. Also works great with Cold Focus and Greater Cold Focues.
EvilVegan 03-04-06, 10:41 AM	Any divine metamagic.
mod5000 03-04-06, 10:44 AM	LoL, thanks for being so specific ^_^, but excluding the brokeness of divine metamagic, what would you take?
Caelic 03-04-06, 10:51 AM	I assume we're also avoiding Artificer/Incantatrix metamagic cheese for purposes of this thread, so...hmm. I'm gonna toss "Extend Spell" out there. It's like the utility hitter who gets no respect because he consistently hits singles and doubles, not homeruns. It's relatively cheap, doubles the value of buff spells, and (when used in conjunction with spells like Creeping Cold,) can turn a decent spell into a devastating one.
Bellinator 03-04-06, 10:55 AM	I am a big fan of Sudden Empower. Nothing like a sudden empowered Horrid Wilting or Firebrand.
Sang-Drax 03-04-06, 11:19 AM	I am a big fan of Sudden Empower. Nothing like a sudden empowered Horrid Wilting or Firebrand. I often wonder why would anyone pick Sudden Empower instead of Sudden Maximize.
Xahr 03-04-06, 12:38 PM	I often wonder why would anyone pick Sudden Empower instead of Sudden Maximize. Because it's more fun to roll a lot of dice, than to know the outcome :D Well, i guess that Sudden Maximize is better, though.
PhaedrusXY 03-04-06, 01:22 PM	Piercing Cold and Energy Substitution: Combo for teh win. Also works great with Cold Focus and Greater Cold Focues.Don't forget Lord or the Uttercold for all your undead pals. :D
Timlagor 03-04-06, 02:24 PM	Persistant if you can avoid paying for it. Sculpt is the best value for money (esp for arcanists) Empower for spontaneous casters. Heighten is prety nice for DCs Maximise for Sudden though I suppose Sudden Twin would be better ;) Quicken is just obviously great.
Slyver 03-04-06, 03:32 PM	Persistant if you can avoid paying for it. Good to the point of breaking the game in some cases. I think we are avoiding such things in this thread. I.e., no incantrix, no DM. They are too obvious. I like all of the suddens. Being able to apply metamagic on the fly is awesome. Grappled by a mountain giant? Sudden still dimension door. Touched somethng you shouldn't have and got teleported to the bottom of the ocean? Sudden silent saves your bacon. Not sure what you are going to face and don't want to take up all your high level slots? Sudden maximize and empower are great. Everything else I can think of off the top of my head has been said. I would like to add one more thing though. It isn't exactly a metamagic feat, but it's in some ways closer to metamagic than crafting. Craft contingency spell is a feat absolutely no spellcaster should be without. It is the only must have feat for any wizard build, and pretty damn spiffy for any other arcane or divine caster as well. Slyver
Sang-Drax 03-04-06, 03:50 PM	Because it's more fun to roll a lot of dice, than to know the outcome :D Well, i guess that Sudden Maximize is better, though. Fair enough. :) Though I guess Empower lets you add 150% of your rolled dice, not roll 150% of your normal number of dice.
mod5000 03-04-06, 04:02 PM	LoL, actually, it's an increase by 50%, while Maximize (statistically speaking, since you usually roll half of your maximum) is an increase by 100%.
Bellinator 03-04-06, 04:09 PM	I often wonder why would anyone pick Sudden Empower instead of Sudden Maximize. Because I love to roll a ton of dice!!!
PhaedrusXY 03-04-06, 04:14 PM	I like all of the suddens. Being able to apply metamagic on the fly is awesome. Grappled by a mountain giant? Sudden still dimension door. I agree about the Suddens (I think they're overpowered, actually), but you don't need to Still Dimension Door. The only components it has are Verbal. This of course makes Silenced Dimension Door a great spell to prepare. :D
diphycue 03-04-06, 04:57 PM	Don't forget Lord or the Uttercold for all your undead pals. :D Oh yeah...I love blasting an enemy, while in the radius myself...the Cold heals my Black Ice Golem, the Negative Energy heals me, and being immune to cold keeps me from getting hurt. Of course I usually Piercing Cold it, but still, the Neg Energy keeps me safe...being a Lich rules.
widow 03-05-06, 09:12 AM	Although it is no longer a metamagic feat, you cannot beat Eschew Materials. I always hated having to come up with weird spell components and this feat eliminates them for about 95% of the spells in the book. Of course No Material components is nice to once you reach epic.
KAVU2002 03-05-06, 09:53 AM	I can imagine three possible interpretations of your question. Q1) What is the best feat to make my offensive arcane caster ROCK! Q2) What is the best metamagic feat, regardless of prerequisites. Q3) What is the best metamagic feat that is easy to obtain. Here are my answers. A1) Improved initiative or danger sense. Cast a devastating spell while they are still fumbling for components. A2) sudden quicken. You effectively go twice. Yeah that is good I hear. A3) sudden extend. Very useful for almost any caster. No prerequisites.
Vaelan 03-06-06, 05:22 AM	Split Ray. It doubles the effect of single-ray spells and only adjusts the spell slot by two levels.
Runeblood7 03-06-06, 11:30 AM	Vote: Chain Spell....great utility in offensive and defensive stuff.
ninjarabbit 03-06-06, 11:43 AM	Generally speaking my 3 favorites are quicken spell, extend spell, and still spell, beyond that usually there's a better spell at that spell slot than the metamagiced spell. The sudden spells are nice but I don't they're that overpowered.
Griff_Goodbeard 03-06-06, 11:58 AM	At high levels, you really can't beat Quicken. Getting what amounts to an extra action is huge.
nameless 03-06-06, 10:10 PM	I think Fell Drain from the Libris Mortis is excellent. On any spell that does damage over multiple turns, the negative levels stack up very quickly. Spiritual Weapon, Melf's Acid Arrow, Evard's Black Tentacles, Chilling Fog, just to name a few that I like. Plus, if you are into that sort of thing, you can apply fell drain to a ray of frost and turn villagers into wights.
tiercel 03-06-06, 11:32 PM	I often wonder why would anyone pick Sudden Empower instead of Sudden Maximize.Because if you read the PHB's example of Empower, then "variable numeric" effects can include modifiers which get picked up in the Empower. To wit, each Empowered magic missile does ( d4 + 1 ) * 1.5, not (d4) * 1.5 + 1. If this is how you run Empower (in line with the example given, though you could argue the example seems strange if you read RAW strictly), in cases where a modifier is large compared to the die roll, Empower beats Maximize. (eg) An 11th level druid casts fire seeds: holly berry bombs. Sudden Maximized: Each bomb deals 19 damage. Sudden Empowered: Each bomb deals (d8 + 11) * 1.5 = 18 to 28 damage (23 avg). This differential is small but becomes larger as the caster level increases (at CL 20, Maximize does 28 damage while Empower does 37 damage avg). If you accept the premise that modifiers get Empowered, and if you cast lots of spells with big modifiers, then Sudden Empower wins. (Of course, far more spells have damage dice without modifiers, so in general I would agree that Sudden Maximize is probably better even with this interpretation.) ----------------- This argument aside, Empower can still occasionally beat Maximize. Consider the old standby, fireball (CL 10): Sudden Maximized: 60 damage Sudden Empowered: (10d6) * 1.5 = 15 - 90 damage (52 avg) On average, Sudden Maximize is better, but if you are a riverboat gambler you might do better with Sudden Empower (even though you won't more often than you will), even in this non-controversial case. That, and as some people have already said, some people just like to roll lots of dice for those boom spells ;)
mod5000 03-06-06, 11:50 PM	Erm ... I think you're a little off on what it says according to the RAW. Over here (or at least in my PHB), it says "All variable numerical effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half," which means that it wouldn't increase the strength of the static variables (like +X).
Dnjscott 03-06-06, 11:53 PM	I usually go for an Innate cure light wounds or magic missile. It's not the most slam bang strategy in the world, but the prereqs are all reasonably useful and there are a lot of fun ramifications to being able to fire off a clw every six seconds. Like healing everyone on the road or in a crowd, etc.
tiercel 03-07-06, 12:52 AM	Erm ... I think you're a little off on what it says according to the RAW. Over here (or at least in my PHB), it says "All variable numerical effects of an empowered spell are increased by one-half," which means that it wouldn't increase the strength of the static variables (like +X).Yeah... but what I was referring to is, further down in the same paragraph in the PHB, it explicitly gives the example of magic missile doing 1.5 times the total of d4+1, rather than just the d4 alone. Without the example, I'd be inclined to agree with you, but it seems like the example is attempting to extend the definition to any random range (i.e. "2-5" as a random, Empowerable range), not just the actual dice. AFAIK, the correctness/incorrectness of the given example is not addressed in errata or FAQ. So as not to totally derail things, I'll have to say that I think Sculpt Spell is pretty awesome as metamagic goes -- not only can you reshape a spell's AoE to the need of the situation, but for spells that affect small areas (e.g. grease, glitterdust) it's like getting Widen Spell for +1 spell level. Tasty.
Endar45 03-07-06, 01:17 AM	As for me my favorite metamagic modifiers vary by class or build: Cleric, Melee: Divine Metamagic Persistent Spell I know, I know... but it's just soooo good... This feat combo is the fix that melee clerics need every morning when they pray for their spells. Cleric, Healing: Divine Metamagic Twin Spell Considering half of a healing spell's power is found in non-variable point increases, Divine MM Twinning these spells is very effective at creating sudden bursts of healing using your highest level heals. If you add Augment Healing to this, it's possible for you to add 2*SpellLevel points of healing, then double the whole thing. Druids: Natural Spell Yes, I realize this isn't metamagic, but it does modify magic in such a way as to render it VASTLY more useful. This is the one feat druids truly need. After this it's all fun and games, even after someone gets hurt. Seriously, though: without this, you just became the plucky comic relief of the group. Gish, Melee: Arcane Strike. Again, I realize this isn't metamagic, but it does let you modify a spell prior to "use". All melee gish get a few fighter feats, but those vary per build. Nearly all other builds have this feat, and for a good reason. Dropping a 5th level spell gives you +5 to hit and +5d4 damage on every successful hit until the beginning of your next round. Gish, Melee: Extend Look, a real metamagic feat! There are entire threads here devoted to 1 hour per level buffs; this low LA feat can make them last through most adventures starting as early as level 6-8, and at level 12 they'll last all night, too. A fantastic choice for anyone who relies upon (or grants) a lot of long-duration buffs. General: Quicken A spell effect AND the ability to full-attack, cast another spell, withdraw, or take any other round-consuming action. Fantastic!
Bloodlust_the_Bold 03-07-06, 01:42 PM	where is the metamagic Innate come from ? :confused:
mod5000 03-07-06, 01:48 PM	Complete Arcane, lets you make a spell become a spell-like ability, usable once per round ... great for Wish, if you're willing to pay the XP cost :D
Vaelan 03-07-06, 07:24 PM	Complete Arcane, lets you make a spell become a spell-like ability, usable once per round ... great for Wish, if you're willing to pay the XP cost :D Please read the feat in its entirety. It requires the permanent expenditure of a spell slot eight levels higher than the spell to be made Innate. So if you have a seventeenth-level spell slot, then go for it. Those of us who don't play level 32 Wizards with poor feat choices will try not to let you hear us laugh.
diphycue 03-07-06, 07:55 PM	Anyone else but me like Energy Admixture? A 20d6 fireball at 13th level, not too shabby...toss on a sudden maximize and you got yourself a stone groove.
Glanoric 03-07-06, 08:34 PM	Anyone else but me like Energy Admixture? A 20d6 fireball at 13th level, not too shabby...toss on a sudden maximize and you got yourself a stone groove. I think it doesn't really come into it's own post epic when you can easilly reduce the spell level cost. At that point it's one of the best.
tiercel 03-07-06, 08:41 PM	Anyone else but me like Energy Admixture? A 20d6 fireball at 13th level, not too shabby...toss on a sudden maximize and you got yourself a stone groove.It's a big boom, to be sure, but you are also gambling that the 4 points of DC you are giving up (it's still a 3rd level spell, even though it takes up a 7th level slot) won't cause them to take half damage when they would have otherwise taken full damage against a 7th level spell. Also, if you aren't Energy Admixturing with the base spell's energy type (e.g. a Fire-Admixtured Fireball), you're just as well off using Twin Spell for the same +4 spell level cost -- Twin Spell works on any spell, not just energy-based ones. If you are Admixturing a spell with its own energy type, then you have a single source of damage more likely to punch through energy resistance, but it means you've also chosen a Energy Substitution type that is more commonly resisted (instead of, say, acid). If you like big elementalist booms, though, Admixture is pretty sweet once you can get around to using it. (You just need a high level game!) One of my problems with metamagic generally is that most games I've played in seem to spend most of their times in the level 5-10 range, so metamagic that is more than +1 or +2 spell levels really just isn't feasible. (Divine Metamagic aside.) Divine Metamagic, of course, depends to some extent on resources: do you have enough point buy (or good enough rolls) to have a nice CHA score, can you get CHA-boosting equipment relatively well, are you allowed Flaws to score Extra Turning feats, and/or can you buy nightsticks to get even more turn attempts/day.... you can still do it in a lower-resource campaign world, but almost your entire build has to revolve about the use of a single Divine Metamagic feat (probably Persistent). ...of course, once you're there, Persistent Divine Power et al are just stupid good.
Anor 03-08-06, 10:45 AM	LoL, actually, it's an increase by 50%, while Maximize (statistically speaking, since you usually roll half of your maximum) is an increase by 100%. Sure, a Maximize Spell is staistically a 100% gain over the usual but an Empower Spell can go beyond the damage/range of the original spell. E.g. a 10th level Fireball will do 10d6 of damage. An Empowered Fireball would do 15d6. This can, in best case, result in 90 damage while a Maximized Fireball only will do 60. So it's not always better with Maximize IMO.
mod5000 03-08-06, 11:09 AM	Again, I said on average that it's better, since the example you gave would (most likely) only be viable if you used Empower AND Maximized at the same time.
Temjinstrife 03-08-06, 11:38 AM	Wasn't there errata somewhere that said empower+Maximize on a 10d6 fireball = 60+5d6? One of my players uses that Sudden combination fairly regularly, and I'd like to know if that it's an auto 90 or a 60+5d6.
mod5000 03-08-06, 11:57 AM	In a short sentence, it is not overpowered for them to stack. For more info, check this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=522167) out.