Best non human race for a monk? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best non human race for a monk? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Hammerhand
10-04-03, 07:03 PM Ok folks thanks for helping me out here.

Im looking to make a monk (my first monk) but he can't be human (I never play a human charachter).

Im mostly looking for a physicaly powerful kind of strange/ugly/monstrous looking charachter.

What would be the best min/max race to choose for a warrior monk? I was mostly thinking of half orc, gray orc +1 ecl, bugbear +1 ecl or hob goblin +1 ecl, orog +2 ecl but any other suggestions would be appreciated.

I plan on using mostly my fists and going the empty hand route from OA. Im also looking at either the tatooed monk or the shintao monk PrC's.

Thanks for your time
catharz
10-04-03, 07:24 PM Half-Ogre or Incarnate Maug if you like being large, Feral human if you want a low LA and an easy character to play, and Feral Anthro Giant squid if you want to own all.
Hammerhand
10-04-03, 07:28 PM I'd rather keep things simple for my DM whats a feral template do? I may break down and try out the half-ogre I just think a large sized charachter may be a pain.
JosephKell
10-04-03, 07:39 PM Feral Template is inapproapriate.

Feral is a +ecl thing you apply to any race and it gives a bonus to Str, Con removes some Int and Cha (I think it is also -2 dex) but it is FERAL as in Uncontrolled Wild (Chaotic usually, Neutral at best), not Natural Wild.

And Monks must be Lawful.

I know PC's can be different than the norm, but that is like having a Rapid Dog be considered for a loyal companion.

Half-Orc is good... Darkvision, +2 Str... -2 Intellegence kind of sucks, but whatever.

Just place your attributes: Wis and Str, Dex, Con, Int, Cha.
catharz
10-04-03, 07:51 PM Originally posted by JosephKell
Feral Template is inapproapriate.

Feral is a +ecl thing you apply to any race and it gives a bonus to Str, Con removes some Int and Cha (I think it is also -2 dex) but it is FERAL as in Uncontrolled Wild (Chaotic usually, Neutral at best), not Natural Wild.

And Monks must be Lawful.

OK, take a look at the feral template under alignment. It might also be worth noting that they are more insightful than the average creatures, gaining a *bonus* to wisdom.
Hammerhand
10-04-03, 07:57 PM Would gray orcs suck major as a +1 ecl? +2 str +2 wis -2 cha -2 int, 40 base movement plus 2 martal weapon feats?
JosephKell
10-04-03, 07:57 PM Originally posted by catharz
OK, take a look at the feral template under alignment. It might also be worth noting that they are more insightful than the average creatures, gaining a *bonus* to wisdom. Not more insightful, more AWARE.

AND THEY ARE FERAL!! This is a Monk. A Feral Barbarian I can see, a Feral Fighter I can see... but not a Feral Monk, Paladin, Dwarven Defender, or any other class that is LAWFUL. As a Part time DM, I would slap a player with my DMG (since I left my Savage Species at home because it isn't consistant with the 3.5 stuff) if he or she brought a Feral Paladin or Monk.
JosephKell
10-04-03, 08:03 PM Originally posted by Hammerhand
Would gray orcs suck major as a +1 ecl? +2 str +2 wis -2 cha -2 int, 40 base movement plus 2 martal weapon feats? For a Monk... maybe...

Lets see what Monks gain from that above and beyond what a Half-Orc gets: Extra Stunning Fist per day
+1 Stunning Fist DC
Extra Defense from Wisdom
10 feet faster
Don't really use Martial weaponsWhat are the martial weapons?
Hammerhand
10-04-03, 08:05 PM The martial weapons are great axe and long bow.

Im also going to be using the OA book so Ill be doing large sized ua damage for the empty hand school and a +2 DC for stunning fists atatcks with the war master school.
IceFractal
10-04-03, 08:13 PM While the Great Axe is pretty useless, the Longbow would be a major improvement over the usual crossbow, no reloading time and you can get a mighty composite one to take advantage of your high orc strength.

So go Gray Orc.
JosephKell
10-04-03, 08:16 PM Originally posted by IceFractal
While the Great Axe is pretty useless, the Longbow would be a major improvement over the usual crossbow, no reloading time and you can get a mighty composite one to take advantage of your high orc strength.

So go Gray Orc. But is it worth delayed stuff (like HD, skills, BAB, Saves)?

I think Half-Orc is better.
MikeN
10-04-03, 08:22 PM Nezumi is probably among the best choices among ecl 0 critters. Also Wood Elf gets good bonuses and bow skill is nice to have as a monk.

ECL 1 I'd say that half-ogre is a nice solid choice. If you can pay to have a wizard polymorph any object you, be an aasimar polymorphed into a kelvezu...:D
Hammerhand
10-04-03, 08:39 PM Nezumi are cool but they die of old age between 30-40 years old. That is a tad young. One age increasing thing shows up and you are an old man.
JosephKell
10-04-03, 08:44 PM Originally posted by Hammerhand
Nezumi are cool but they die of old age between 30-40 years old. That is a tad young. One age increasing thing shows up and you are an old man. ... More reason to get to level 17 and level 20 in Monk?
Hammerhand
10-04-03, 08:53 PM Well he would still die at maximum 40 years old and he starts getting minuses at the tender age of 15.

Unless my DM will do something magical about this there is no way I would want to play one.

I mean in all reality I can't even hope to be level 17 within 10 years of adventuring.

Has cane, will travel.
samoosa691
10-04-03, 11:48 PM has no one thought about the githzerai from the monster manual?
I mean cmon
it's got +6 to dex +2 wisdom, and some other penalties which I can't think of

you get +4 inertial armor bonus to your armor class
spell resistance = 5 + 1/level
dark vision 60' (outsider)
plain shift 1/day once you hit level 13
sure it's a level adjustment of +2...
but damn worth it for me...
JosephKell
10-04-03, 11:56 PM Originally posted by samoosa691
has no one thought about the githzerai from the monster manual?
I mean cmon
it's got +6 to dex +2 wisdom, and some other penalties which I can't think of

you get +4 inertial armor bonus to your armor class
spell resistance = 5 + 1/level
dark vision 60' (outsider)
plain shift 1/day once you hit level 13
sure it's a level adjustment of +2...
but damn worth it for me... Their favored class IS Monk... and they tend to Lawful Neutral...
Prism
10-05-03, 05:54 AM Planetouched Zenythri (MM2) get +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha, several resistances and truestrike 1/day. Also as outsiders they are proficient with all martial weapons

Favoured Class monk, +1 ECL
PhaedrusXY
10-05-03, 06:06 AM My vote is for the Githzerai and multiclass into monk PrCs, since you get Spell Resistance from the race. And githzerai are cool. :cool:
Hammerhand
10-05-03, 10:20 AM Bah, I seem not to have the stats on the Gith. if someone could send or pm me the full stats on them to me Id appreciate it.

I have the monsters manual and darn if I can find the Gith in there.

sbell4240@rogers.com
Jell_Moo
10-05-03, 11:49 AM I was actually thinking that the Minotaur from the Dragonlance campaign setting would make a decent monk.

The bonus to Strength is pretty darn sweet. The penalty to Dex does hurt, but the minotaur does get some natural armor which will help make up for it.

Plus I'm just a sucker for a race that can take the Scent feat.
Teh Lurv
10-05-03, 12:25 PM The Half-Orge race in the appendix of the Savage Species book would make an excellent monk. They are large with +6 str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha and an ECL of +1 total.
samoosa691
10-05-03, 01:15 PM Originally posted by JosephKell
Their favored class IS Monk... and they tend to Lawful Neutral...

isn't that what he wanted?
mean_liar
10-05-03, 02:15 PM I'd say Half-orc for ECL +0.

Half-ogre for ECL +1. Zenythri are a good choice if you want to play a character thats more capable as a diplomat, but the Half-Ogre is better in melee, hands down. Grey Orcs make better high-stat Clerics than Monks.

Githzerai for ECL +2. But if you're doing this, you're better off multiclassing into monk only for a few levels, and then discarding the class. The monk's best feature is Spell Resistance, which this race gets. No ECL +2 race gets my attention as a good race for a Monk.
Hanniball
10-05-03, 02:55 PM samoosa: i can't believe i haven't noticed the githzerai yet thanks for pointing that out, solid choice for a +2 ecl race.

for straight up damage with a monk using a low-ecl race is half-ogre with open hand mastery and the monks tattoo/monks belt. just pick up all the charge-enhancing feats you can and own the field with your uber-movement while charging.

either way...just my 0.02 cp
JosephKell
10-05-03, 03:15 PM Originally posted by samoosa691
isn't that what he wanted? I was pointing out a few more reasons why Githzerai is a good idea.

Also note: Inertial Armor is like the feat in the Psionics Handbook, it doesn't stack with armor (but Monks don't wear armor, but it won't stack with Bracers of Armor unfortunately)
Hammerhand
10-05-03, 09:22 PM I thinkI would prefer a 0 ecl race so perhaps the Nezumi or half-orc would be the ebst.
SerpentMage
10-05-03, 09:53 PM Dwarf for ECL 0, IMO...lots of good stuff, there (bonus to Con, minus to Cha...win/no loss). Stability bonus is good if you are a tripping monk, for instance. Bonus to saves is just one more thing to help remove the threat of high save DCs. Darkvision is always a plus. Dodge bonus against Giants helps a lot when you face Trolls (makes Rend much less of an issue)...helps with other giants, too, of course.

In 3.5, with the way bonus movement is treated, the -10 land speed for dwarves really isn't a big deal for a monk (just means that you are 10 feet slower than a base 30 race at the same level).

I kinda like the idea of a Winged (template from Savage Species) Dwarven Monk...LA +2 (+4 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha; flight, easily at perfect maneuverability; monstrous humanoid). May not make a lot of sense, but it sure would be funny... :smirk:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Hammerhand 10-04-03, 07:03 PM	Ok folks thanks for helping me out here. Im looking to make a monk (my first monk) but he can't be human (I never play a human charachter). Im mostly looking for a physicaly powerful kind of strange/ugly/monstrous looking charachter. What would be the best min/max race to choose for a warrior monk? I was mostly thinking of half orc, gray orc +1 ecl, bugbear +1 ecl or hob goblin +1 ecl, orog +2 ecl but any other suggestions would be appreciated. I plan on using mostly my fists and going the empty hand route from OA. Im also looking at either the tatooed monk or the shintao monk PrC's. Thanks for your time
catharz 10-04-03, 07:24 PM	Half-Ogre or Incarnate Maug if you like being large, Feral human if you want a low LA and an easy character to play, and Feral Anthro Giant squid if you want to own all.
Hammerhand 10-04-03, 07:28 PM	I'd rather keep things simple for my DM whats a feral template do? I may break down and try out the half-ogre I just think a large sized charachter may be a pain.
JosephKell 10-04-03, 07:39 PM	Feral Template is inapproapriate. Feral is a +ecl thing you apply to any race and it gives a bonus to Str, Con removes some Int and Cha (I think it is also -2 dex) but it is FERAL as in Uncontrolled Wild (Chaotic usually, Neutral at best), not Natural Wild. And Monks must be Lawful. I know PC's can be different than the norm, but that is like having a Rapid Dog be considered for a loyal companion. Half-Orc is good... Darkvision, +2 Str... -2 Intellegence kind of sucks, but whatever. Just place your attributes: Wis and Str, Dex, Con, Int, Cha.
catharz 10-04-03, 07:51 PM	Originally posted by JosephKell Feral Template is inapproapriate. Feral is a +ecl thing you apply to any race and it gives a bonus to Str, Con removes some Int and Cha (I think it is also -2 dex) but it is FERAL as in Uncontrolled Wild (Chaotic usually, Neutral at best), not Natural Wild. And Monks must be Lawful. OK, take a look at the feral template under alignment. It might also be worth noting that they are more insightful than the average creatures, gaining a bonus to wisdom.
Hammerhand 10-04-03, 07:57 PM	Would gray orcs suck major as a +1 ecl? +2 str +2 wis -2 cha -2 int, 40 base movement plus 2 martal weapon feats?
JosephKell 10-04-03, 07:57 PM	Originally posted by catharz OK, take a look at the feral template under alignment. It might also be worth noting that they are more insightful than the average creatures, gaining a bonus to wisdom. Not more insightful, more AWARE. AND THEY ARE FERAL!! This is a Monk. A Feral Barbarian I can see, a Feral Fighter I can see... but not a Feral Monk, Paladin, Dwarven Defender, or any other class that is LAWFUL. As a Part time DM, I would slap a player with my DMG (since I left my Savage Species at home because it isn't consistant with the 3.5 stuff) if he or she brought a Feral Paladin or Monk.
JosephKell 10-04-03, 08:03 PM	Originally posted by Hammerhand Would gray orcs suck major as a +1 ecl? +2 str +2 wis -2 cha -2 int, 40 base movement plus 2 martal weapon feats? For a Monk... maybe... Lets see what Monks gain from that above and beyond what a Half-Orc gets: Extra Stunning Fist per day +1 Stunning Fist DC Extra Defense from Wisdom 10 feet faster Don't really use Martial weaponsWhat are the martial weapons?
Hammerhand 10-04-03, 08:05 PM	The martial weapons are great axe and long bow. Im also going to be using the OA book so Ill be doing large sized ua damage for the empty hand school and a +2 DC for stunning fists atatcks with the war master school.
IceFractal 10-04-03, 08:13 PM	While the Great Axe is pretty useless, the Longbow would be a major improvement over the usual crossbow, no reloading time and you can get a mighty composite one to take advantage of your high orc strength. So go Gray Orc.
JosephKell 10-04-03, 08:16 PM	Originally posted by IceFractal While the Great Axe is pretty useless, the Longbow would be a major improvement over the usual crossbow, no reloading time and you can get a mighty composite one to take advantage of your high orc strength. So go Gray Orc. But is it worth delayed stuff (like HD, skills, BAB, Saves)? I think Half-Orc is better.
MikeN 10-04-03, 08:22 PM	Nezumi is probably among the best choices among ecl 0 critters. Also Wood Elf gets good bonuses and bow skill is nice to have as a monk. ECL 1 I'd say that half-ogre is a nice solid choice. If you can pay to have a wizard polymorph any object you, be an aasimar polymorphed into a kelvezu...:D
Hammerhand 10-04-03, 08:39 PM	Nezumi are cool but they die of old age between 30-40 years old. That is a tad young. One age increasing thing shows up and you are an old man.
JosephKell 10-04-03, 08:44 PM	Originally posted by Hammerhand Nezumi are cool but they die of old age between 30-40 years old. That is a tad young. One age increasing thing shows up and you are an old man. ... More reason to get to level 17 and level 20 in Monk?
Hammerhand 10-04-03, 08:53 PM	Well he would still die at maximum 40 years old and he starts getting minuses at the tender age of 15. Unless my DM will do something magical about this there is no way I would want to play one. I mean in all reality I can't even hope to be level 17 within 10 years of adventuring. Has cane, will travel.
samoosa691 10-04-03, 11:48 PM	has no one thought about the githzerai from the monster manual? I mean cmon it's got +6 to dex +2 wisdom, and some other penalties which I can't think of you get +4 inertial armor bonus to your armor class spell resistance = 5 + 1/level dark vision 60' (outsider) plain shift 1/day once you hit level 13 sure it's a level adjustment of +2... but damn worth it for me...
JosephKell 10-04-03, 11:56 PM	Originally posted by samoosa691 has no one thought about the githzerai from the monster manual? I mean cmon it's got +6 to dex +2 wisdom, and some other penalties which I can't think of you get +4 inertial armor bonus to your armor class spell resistance = 5 + 1/level dark vision 60' (outsider) plain shift 1/day once you hit level 13 sure it's a level adjustment of +2... but damn worth it for me... Their favored class IS Monk... and they tend to Lawful Neutral...
Prism 10-05-03, 05:54 AM	Planetouched Zenythri (MM2) get +2 Str, +2 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Cha, several resistances and truestrike 1/day. Also as outsiders they are proficient with all martial weapons Favoured Class monk, +1 ECL
PhaedrusXY 10-05-03, 06:06 AM	My vote is for the Githzerai and multiclass into monk PrCs, since you get Spell Resistance from the race. And githzerai are cool. :cool:
Hammerhand 10-05-03, 10:20 AM	Bah, I seem not to have the stats on the Gith. if someone could send or pm me the full stats on them to me Id appreciate it. I have the monsters manual and darn if I can find the Gith in there. sbell4240@rogers.com
Jell_Moo 10-05-03, 11:49 AM	I was actually thinking that the Minotaur from the Dragonlance campaign setting would make a decent monk. The bonus to Strength is pretty darn sweet. The penalty to Dex does hurt, but the minotaur does get some natural armor which will help make up for it. Plus I'm just a sucker for a race that can take the Scent feat.
Teh Lurv 10-05-03, 12:25 PM	The Half-Orge race in the appendix of the Savage Species book would make an excellent monk. They are large with +6 str, -2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Cha and an ECL of +1 total.
samoosa691 10-05-03, 01:15 PM	Originally posted by JosephKell Their favored class IS Monk... and they tend to Lawful Neutral... isn't that what he wanted?
mean_liar 10-05-03, 02:15 PM	I'd say Half-orc for ECL +0. Half-ogre for ECL +1. Zenythri are a good choice if you want to play a character thats more capable as a diplomat, but the Half-Ogre is better in melee, hands down. Grey Orcs make better high-stat Clerics than Monks. Githzerai for ECL +2. But if you're doing this, you're better off multiclassing into monk only for a few levels, and then discarding the class. The monk's best feature is Spell Resistance, which this race gets. No ECL +2 race gets my attention as a good race for a Monk.
Hanniball 10-05-03, 02:55 PM	samoosa: i can't believe i haven't noticed the githzerai yet thanks for pointing that out, solid choice for a +2 ecl race. for straight up damage with a monk using a low-ecl race is half-ogre with open hand mastery and the monks tattoo/monks belt. just pick up all the charge-enhancing feats you can and own the field with your uber-movement while charging. either way...just my 0.02 cp
JosephKell 10-05-03, 03:15 PM	Originally posted by samoosa691 isn't that what he wanted? I was pointing out a few more reasons why Githzerai is a good idea. Also note: Inertial Armor is like the feat in the Psionics Handbook, it doesn't stack with armor (but Monks don't wear armor, but it won't stack with Bracers of Armor unfortunately)
Hammerhand 10-05-03, 09:22 PM	I thinkI would prefer a 0 ecl race so perhaps the Nezumi or half-orc would be the ebst.
SerpentMage 10-05-03, 09:53 PM	Dwarf for ECL 0, IMO...lots of good stuff, there (bonus to Con, minus to Cha...win/no loss). Stability bonus is good if you are a tripping monk, for instance. Bonus to saves is just one more thing to help remove the threat of high save DCs. Darkvision is always a plus. Dodge bonus against Giants helps a lot when you face Trolls (makes Rend much less of an issue)...helps with other giants, too, of course. In 3.5, with the way bonus movement is treated, the -10 land speed for dwarves really isn't a big deal for a monk (just means that you are 10 feet slower than a base 30 race at the same level). I kinda like the idea of a Winged (template from Savage Species) Dwarven Monk...LA +2 (+4 Dex, +2 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Cha; flight, easily at perfect maneuverability; monstrous humanoid). May not make a lot of sense, but it sure would be funny... :smirk: