Best Paladin. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Paladin. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
D20RollPlayer
01-04-06, 07:28 PM I have been wondering about all the different builds for paladins, as they seem weak on their own. So I thought I would come here and ask for what you think is the best build? Any PrC's and multiclassing allowed and all 3.5 edition books except for forgotten realms and ebberon are allowed also.

All I can really think of is 10pal/10 fist of raziel.

Please no cleric abuse though, we all know how "uber," they are compared to paladins, 3 levels of cleric multiclassing alowed only!

We could maybe even try to create a new "pun pun" ;)
Caelic
01-04-06, 07:39 PM Are we including Unearthed Arcana? Prestige Paladin is the way to go, if so.
Amphetryon
01-04-06, 10:19 PM I agree, Caelic. Fighter 2/Cleric 3/PrPaladin 5/Fist of Raziel 10 is pretty darned optimal.
Pious Templar 2 or 4 is also a nice add-in, for Mettle and free Weapon Specialization, if you're the only Tank.
PhoenixInferno
01-04-06, 10:48 PM Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 4/PrPal 3/Fist of Raziel 10

Excluding all spellcasting options (Clerics, Favored Souls, and Divine Crusaders), your best bet is the Half-Orc Paladin substitution levels. Righteous Fury is FAR better than Smite Evil and an enraged Half-Orc Paladin is truly a force to be reckoned with.

Half-Orc Paladin 1 - Power Attack
Paladin 2
Half-Orc Paladin 3 - Improved Shield Bash
Paladin 4
...
Half-Orc Paladin 6 - Divine Might
Paladin 7
...
Paladin 9 - Servant of the Heavens
...
Paladin 12 - Divine Shield
...
Paladin 15 - Two Weapon Fighting
...
Paladin 18 - Improved TWF

Shield bashing, raging, Divine Might-fueled Half-Orc goodness.
X-Codes
01-04-06, 11:05 PM Meh... I'm not a huge fan of the half-orc sub levels. Paladin of Mystra is ridiculusly powerful for a Paladin 20. Working from memory, you can even take the feat that allows you to prepare Wizard spells in your Paladin spell slots and get Polymorph, Greater Invisibility, and many other nice spells.

For the best smiting power a Paladin 5/PT 4/Divine Champion 1/Fist of Raziel 10 gives 8 +19 damage smite evils in addition to the full FoR bonuses. The spellcasting is probably only definatively superior to Cleric spellcasting if you take the build epic, but on the other hand you can get a few high-level spells instead of a lot of medium-level spells. It's all a matter of personal preference in the end.

And, as if it didn't need any more promotion, dropping Paladin in your typical Bardic Gish is something done by a lot of people, although Soldier of Light is technically more optimized since it doesn't require Devoted Performer or level micromanagement to pull off.
ninjarabbit
01-04-06, 11:16 PM Let's not forget supermount, either a strongheart halfling paladin5/beastmaster2/wildplainsoutrider3/halflingoutrider10 or a regular halfling ranger4/paladin5/beastmaster1/halflingoutrider10 with the natural bond feat.

With the devoted tracker feat in both of these builds you get a mount with the combined abilities of a 15 level paladin mount and a 18th level druid animal companion since the wording on halfling outrider says it advances both.
PhoenixInferno
01-04-06, 11:32 PM Meh... I'm not a huge fan of the half-orc sub levels. Paladin of Mystra is ridiculusly powerful for a Paladin 20. Working from memory, you can even take the feat that allows you to prepare Wizard spells in your Paladin spell slots and get Polymorph, Greater Invisibility, and many other nice spells.
Mystic Fire Knight is pretty damn good - although to get bonus spell slots, you have to trade Turn Undead. And yes, Sword of the Arcane Order puts those bonus spells to good use, so its a trade worth considering.
Tenken
01-05-06, 01:50 PM Paladin of Mystra is ridiculusly powerful for a Paladin 20. Working from memory, you can even take the feat that allows you to prepare Wizard spells in your Paladin spell slots and get Polymorph, Greater Invisibility, and many other nice spells.

Paladin of Mystra...??? How exactly is it powerful, and what's the build like?
Sang-Drax
01-05-06, 02:09 PM Paladin of Mystra...??? How exactly is it powerful, and what's the build like?

That's from Champions of Valor. Sub levels + a feat that makes the paladin a lot more versatile.

There's also a good PrC in CoV, with 'Triad' something in the name. It's a 7 level PrC with +1 spellcasting from levesl 2-6. At 7th level, it grants a triple smite ability! Even if you don't go through all 7 levels, it's a nice pick.
Tenken
01-05-06, 02:42 PM That's from Champions of Valor. Sub levels + a feat that makes the paladin a lot more versatile.

There's also a good PrC in CoV, with 'Triad' something in the name. It's a 7 level PrC with +1 spellcasting from levesl 2-6. At 7th level, it grants a triple smite ability! Even if you don't go through all 7 levels, it's a nice pick.

Huh, I gotta check that out. The Triadic Knight is definitely awesome. Do you have to be a follower of Mystra to be able to take the wizard spell feat? Because Triadic Smite + True Strike + Power Attack would be pretty insane.
PhoenixInferno
01-05-06, 02:59 PM Huh, I gotta check that out. The Triadic Knight is definitely awesome. Do you have to be a follower of Mystra to be able to take the wizard spell feat? Because Triadic Smite + True Strike + Power Attack would be pretty insane.
Yes, Sword of the Arcane order requires you be a worshipper of Mystra and Triadic Knight requires you to be a worshipper of either Tyr, Ilmater or Torm. So no Power Attack + True Strike + Triadic Smite that easily.
Blade2718
01-06-06, 04:21 AM For the best smiting power a Paladin 5/PT 4/Divine Champion 1/Fist of Raziel 10 gives 8 +19 damage smite evils in addition to the full FoR bonuses. The spellcasting is probably only definatively superior to Cleric spellcasting if you take the build epic, but on the other hand you can get a few high-level spells instead of a lot of medium-level spells. It's all a matter of personal preference in the end.Mid-level spells? Haven't you been paying attention? Primary Divine Caster 7/Prestige Paladin 3/Fist of Raziel 10 = 17th level spellcasting.

Divine Champion should NOT be considered a spellcaster, but a class granting 9 spell-likes usable a scaling number of times a day. As I said once before, it would be far from wise for the cleric to take a vacation just because the Divine Crusader is availible. That would be like allowing the third-year med student to operate on you while the lead surgeon gets a drink and a few holes.

Nice class for primary tanks to become tertiary divine casters, but certainly not a replacement for the Cleric just because it gets a fast progression.
baoban sith
01-06-06, 05:15 AM I'd say Sword of the Arcane order with Prestige Paladin is the way to go.
jstorrie
01-06-06, 05:27 AM If you're not interested in Prestige Paladin, Dragon Disciple synergizes nicely with Paladin. Just add your Dragon Disciple bonus slots to your Paladin spells - many Paladin spells are more powerful than normal Wiz/Sor/Cleric spells of the same level.
D20RollPlayer
01-08-06, 07:46 PM which would be better?

paladin 4 - fighter 1 - pious templar 4 - divine crusader 1 - fist of raziel 10

or

paladin 5 - pious templar 4 - divine crusader 1 - fist of raziel 10

???
D20RollPlayer
01-08-06, 07:48 PM which would be better?

paladin 4 - fighter 1 - pious templar 4 - divine crusader 1 - fist of raziel 10

or

paladin 5 - pious templar 4 - divine crusader 1 - fist of raziel 10

???

also what would be the best feats for these builds...

I was thinking of going down the power attack, divine might sort of route.
Rufus
01-09-06, 04:22 PM How about Paladin/Invisible Blade based bluff specialists:

For example:
Paladin 2/Ranger 3/Invisible Blade 5/Justiciar 10
or
Paladin 3/Monk 3/Invisible Blade 5/Tatooed Monk 3 (White Mask/Unicorn)/Peerless Archer 6
AviLazar
01-09-06, 04:36 PM Exorcist of the Silver Flame is nice for paladin.

At level 3 the smites from EotSF stacks with paladin levels (and cleric levels if you have any)...Then the bonus abilities to your weapon (weapon of exorcist, silver, good, law, flame and holy). Then we get other abilities like darkvision and, detect thoughts, and at 10th level of this PrC you get the very nice Warding Flame ability (sacred bonus: +2 AC, +2 all saves, SR 25 vs evil spells, evil creatures hitting you have to make a fort save or be blinded and you glow nicely)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
D20RollPlayer 01-04-06, 07:28 PM	I have been wondering about all the different builds for paladins, as they seem weak on their own. So I thought I would come here and ask for what you think is the best build? Any PrC's and multiclassing allowed and all 3.5 edition books except for forgotten realms and ebberon are allowed also. All I can really think of is 10pal/10 fist of raziel. Please no cleric abuse though, we all know how "uber," they are compared to paladins, 3 levels of cleric multiclassing alowed only! We could maybe even try to create a new "pun pun" ;)
Caelic 01-04-06, 07:39 PM	Are we including Unearthed Arcana? Prestige Paladin is the way to go, if so.
Amphetryon 01-04-06, 10:19 PM	I agree, Caelic. Fighter 2/Cleric 3/PrPaladin 5/Fist of Raziel 10 is pretty darned optimal. Pious Templar 2 or 4 is also a nice add-in, for Mettle and free Weapon Specialization, if you're the only Tank.
PhoenixInferno 01-04-06, 10:48 PM	Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 4/PrPal 3/Fist of Raziel 10 Excluding all spellcasting options (Clerics, Favored Souls, and Divine Crusaders), your best bet is the Half-Orc Paladin substitution levels. Righteous Fury is FAR better than Smite Evil and an enraged Half-Orc Paladin is truly a force to be reckoned with. Half-Orc Paladin 1 - Power Attack Paladin 2 Half-Orc Paladin 3 - Improved Shield Bash Paladin 4 ... Half-Orc Paladin 6 - Divine Might Paladin 7 ... Paladin 9 - Servant of the Heavens ... Paladin 12 - Divine Shield ... Paladin 15 - Two Weapon Fighting ... Paladin 18 - Improved TWF Shield bashing, raging, Divine Might-fueled Half-Orc goodness.
X-Codes 01-04-06, 11:05 PM	Meh... I'm not a huge fan of the half-orc sub levels. Paladin of Mystra is ridiculusly powerful for a Paladin 20. Working from memory, you can even take the feat that allows you to prepare Wizard spells in your Paladin spell slots and get Polymorph, Greater Invisibility, and many other nice spells. For the best smiting power a Paladin 5/PT 4/Divine Champion 1/Fist of Raziel 10 gives 8 +19 damage smite evils in addition to the full FoR bonuses. The spellcasting is probably only definatively superior to Cleric spellcasting if you take the build epic, but on the other hand you can get a few high-level spells instead of a lot of medium-level spells. It's all a matter of personal preference in the end. And, as if it didn't need any more promotion, dropping Paladin in your typical Bardic Gish is something done by a lot of people, although Soldier of Light is technically more optimized since it doesn't require Devoted Performer or level micromanagement to pull off.
ninjarabbit 01-04-06, 11:16 PM	Let's not forget supermount, either a strongheart halfling paladin5/beastmaster2/wildplainsoutrider3/halflingoutrider10 or a regular halfling ranger4/paladin5/beastmaster1/halflingoutrider10 with the natural bond feat. With the devoted tracker feat in both of these builds you get a mount with the combined abilities of a 15 level paladin mount and a 18th level druid animal companion since the wording on halfling outrider says it advances both.
PhoenixInferno 01-04-06, 11:32 PM	Meh... I'm not a huge fan of the half-orc sub levels. Paladin of Mystra is ridiculusly powerful for a Paladin 20. Working from memory, you can even take the feat that allows you to prepare Wizard spells in your Paladin spell slots and get Polymorph, Greater Invisibility, and many other nice spells. Mystic Fire Knight is pretty damn good - although to get bonus spell slots, you have to trade Turn Undead. And yes, Sword of the Arcane Order puts those bonus spells to good use, so its a trade worth considering.
Tenken 01-05-06, 01:50 PM	Paladin of Mystra is ridiculusly powerful for a Paladin 20. Working from memory, you can even take the feat that allows you to prepare Wizard spells in your Paladin spell slots and get Polymorph, Greater Invisibility, and many other nice spells. Paladin of Mystra...??? How exactly is it powerful, and what's the build like?
Sang-Drax 01-05-06, 02:09 PM	Paladin of Mystra...??? How exactly is it powerful, and what's the build like? That's from Champions of Valor. Sub levels + a feat that makes the paladin a lot more versatile. There's also a good PrC in CoV, with 'Triad' something in the name. It's a 7 level PrC with +1 spellcasting from levesl 2-6. At 7th level, it grants a triple smite ability! Even if you don't go through all 7 levels, it's a nice pick.
Tenken 01-05-06, 02:42 PM	That's from Champions of Valor. Sub levels + a feat that makes the paladin a lot more versatile. There's also a good PrC in CoV, with 'Triad' something in the name. It's a 7 level PrC with +1 spellcasting from levesl 2-6. At 7th level, it grants a triple smite ability! Even if you don't go through all 7 levels, it's a nice pick. Huh, I gotta check that out. The Triadic Knight is definitely awesome. Do you have to be a follower of Mystra to be able to take the wizard spell feat? Because Triadic Smite + True Strike + Power Attack would be pretty insane.
PhoenixInferno 01-05-06, 02:59 PM	Huh, I gotta check that out. The Triadic Knight is definitely awesome. Do you have to be a follower of Mystra to be able to take the wizard spell feat? Because Triadic Smite + True Strike + Power Attack would be pretty insane. Yes, Sword of the Arcane order requires you be a worshipper of Mystra and Triadic Knight requires you to be a worshipper of either Tyr, Ilmater or Torm. So no Power Attack + True Strike + Triadic Smite that easily.
Blade2718 01-06-06, 04:21 AM	For the best smiting power a Paladin 5/PT 4/Divine Champion 1/Fist of Raziel 10 gives 8 +19 damage smite evils in addition to the full FoR bonuses. The spellcasting is probably only definatively superior to Cleric spellcasting if you take the build epic, but on the other hand you can get a few high-level spells instead of a lot of medium-level spells. It's all a matter of personal preference in the end.Mid-level spells? Haven't you been paying attention? Primary Divine Caster 7/Prestige Paladin 3/Fist of Raziel 10 = 17th level spellcasting. Divine Champion should NOT be considered a spellcaster, but a class granting 9 spell-likes usable a scaling number of times a day. As I said once before, it would be far from wise for the cleric to take a vacation just because the Divine Crusader is availible. That would be like allowing the third-year med student to operate on you while the lead surgeon gets a drink and a few holes. Nice class for primary tanks to become tertiary divine casters, but certainly not a replacement for the Cleric just because it gets a fast progression.
baoban sith 01-06-06, 05:15 AM	I'd say Sword of the Arcane order with Prestige Paladin is the way to go.
jstorrie 01-06-06, 05:27 AM	If you're not interested in Prestige Paladin, Dragon Disciple synergizes nicely with Paladin. Just add your Dragon Disciple bonus slots to your Paladin spells - many Paladin spells are more powerful than normal Wiz/Sor/Cleric spells of the same level.
D20RollPlayer 01-08-06, 07:46 PM	which would be better? paladin 4 - fighter 1 - pious templar 4 - divine crusader 1 - fist of raziel 10 or paladin 5 - pious templar 4 - divine crusader 1 - fist of raziel 10 ???
D20RollPlayer 01-08-06, 07:48 PM	which would be better? paladin 4 - fighter 1 - pious templar 4 - divine crusader 1 - fist of raziel 10 or paladin 5 - pious templar 4 - divine crusader 1 - fist of raziel 10 ??? also what would be the best feats for these builds... I was thinking of going down the power attack, divine might sort of route.
Rufus 01-09-06, 04:22 PM	How about Paladin/Invisible Blade based bluff specialists: For example: Paladin 2/Ranger 3/Invisible Blade 5/Justiciar 10 or Paladin 3/Monk 3/Invisible Blade 5/Tatooed Monk 3 (White Mask/Unicorn)/Peerless Archer 6
AviLazar 01-09-06, 04:36 PM	Exorcist of the Silver Flame is nice for paladin. At level 3 the smites from EotSF stacks with paladin levels (and cleric levels if you have any)...Then the bonus abilities to your weapon (weapon of exorcist, silver, good, law, flame and holy). Then we get other abilities like darkvision and, detect thoughts, and at 10th level of this PrC you get the very nice Warding Flame ability (sacred bonus: +2 AC, +2 all saves, SR 25 vs evil spells, evil creatures hitting you have to make a fort save or be blinded and you glow nicely)