Best Polymorph Form? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Polymorph Form? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lusden Veharo
07-01-05, 01:31 PM Psionics and magic both allowed, cost to get the spell cast/power manifested is not an object. What's the best form to get polymorphed (I use the term generically) into if you're a high level psion and want the polymorph to last forever? Base race is Grey Elf for what it's worth.
monkeycaster
07-01-05, 02:02 PM I like Sand Giants (MM2 or 3, can't remember) 27/21/21 for stat's, better for dex dependent characters than Firbolgs, which most people swear by.

That is, assuming you can't do outsiders like normal characters.
Lusden Veharo
07-01-05, 02:29 PM Erm, I'm after a high int much more than high strength-a psion has a d4 hit die and 1/2 BAB progression; tanking is out of the question. Using powers to blow my defenses up to the "OMG BROKEN" point soaks up about a third of my PP for the day.

Outsiders would be fine IF I can find a valid mechanic to do it; the DM is really flexible but isn't going to bend rules to make it easy.
Vorlir
07-01-05, 02:52 PM You wouldnt get the int though from polymorph, just physical stats.
Lusden Veharo
07-01-05, 03:11 PM Polymorph Other gives the Int, other spells that I don't know of may as well. The challenge is getting the +9 duration modifier with as high an int as possible.
PhaedrusXY
07-01-05, 03:12 PM Did you check out the 3.5 Polymorph Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=175846)?
monkeycaster
07-01-05, 03:28 PM The only way to get outsiders with Polymorph (that I know of) is to start off as an outsider. (Assimar, Tiefling, Half Celestial, Half Demon, Planetouched, Genesai, etc.) But, if you're going that route, you might as well go Elan, and go for an Aberration polymorph instead (into an Ulitharid(sp?)) for example.

Check out the thread, though, as Phaedrus said.

Also, I thought Polymorph other went away with 3.5 (replaced with just polymorph and polymorph any object)?
gabrion
07-01-05, 03:36 PM White Ethergaunt is an Aberration from FF that has a base INT of 27. It's a good form for PaO.
Lusden Veharo
07-01-05, 03:56 PM Unless there's some rule on multiple polymorphs that I'm not aware of, PaO into a Medium outsider with a lower int score. You get the +5 from same kingdom, +2 for same or lower int, +2 for same size. From there you can PaO into something much more suitable.

Wasn't able to find the 3.5 Polymorph thread, thanks.
Snow Savant
07-01-05, 04:22 PM Read the fine print for Polymorph inheritance and removal rules. Especially Skip's clarification for it in his 4-part Rules of the Game series.

You'll find that technically, by the RAW, the "Spells" ability does not have a (Ex), (Su), or (Sp) tag on it. But is most definitely an attack ability. Thereby, allowable to assume using Polymorph rules.

So, no, you don't want to think about assuming the forms of big-ass creatures like Giants, War Trolls, and what-not. You want to assume the form of creatures like the Abeil Queen (MM2).

Specifically so you can add 16th level Druid spellcasting capability to your spellcaster's 14th level Draconic Polymorph session. You did Divine Metamagic/Persistant this spell, didn't you?

High level spells trump all. And being an Abeil Queen means staying a medium-sized bipedal shape for all your magical gear as well.
PhaedrusXY
07-01-05, 04:56 PM Wasn't able to find the 3.5 Polymorph thread, thanks.Uh... where it says 3.5 Polymorph thread in my first post? That's a link to it.
Borin
07-01-05, 05:09 PM I think a caster with low bab can still be pretty good in melee with a form like cavetroll (mm3). It has a great natural attack routine (2claws+bite+2rakes, and it has pounce/rend/improved grab/daze), great str/con/natural armor. If you pick a weird feat like Power Lunge you'll probably outdamage the fighter.

Another option: roper (mm1), it has 6 str-draining attacks.
Timlagor
07-01-05, 10:43 PM You'll find that technically, by the RAW, the "Spells" ability does not have a (Ex), (Su), or (Sp) tag on it. But is most definitely an attack ability. Thereby, allowable to assume using Polymorph rules.

Please show me a rules quote that says Spellcasting is an attack.

Lots and lots of spells aren't attacks.
McJarvis
07-01-05, 11:21 PM Please show me a rules quote that says Spellcasting is an attack.

Lots and lots of spells aren't attacks.

Check out any critter with spellcasting(such as Liches and Solars). Spells are listed under special attacks.
Timlagor
07-02-05, 01:20 AM So they are.
They are clearly not natural though -I certainly wouldn't allow it in any campaign I ran; it's blatant abuse.

If spell-like aren't gained I really can't see any justification for getting spells.
McJarvis
07-02-05, 01:25 AM So they are.
They are clearly not natural though -I certainly wouldn't allow it in any campaign I ran; it's blatant abuse.

I humbly bow to your good judgement :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lusden Veharo 07-01-05, 01:31 PM	Psionics and magic both allowed, cost to get the spell cast/power manifested is not an object. What's the best form to get polymorphed (I use the term generically) into if you're a high level psion and want the polymorph to last forever? Base race is Grey Elf for what it's worth.
monkeycaster 07-01-05, 02:02 PM	I like Sand Giants (MM2 or 3, can't remember) 27/21/21 for stat's, better for dex dependent characters than Firbolgs, which most people swear by. That is, assuming you can't do outsiders like normal characters.
Lusden Veharo 07-01-05, 02:29 PM	Erm, I'm after a high int much more than high strength-a psion has a d4 hit die and 1/2 BAB progression; tanking is out of the question. Using powers to blow my defenses up to the "OMG BROKEN" point soaks up about a third of my PP for the day. Outsiders would be fine IF I can find a valid mechanic to do it; the DM is really flexible but isn't going to bend rules to make it easy.
Vorlir 07-01-05, 02:52 PM	You wouldnt get the int though from polymorph, just physical stats.
Lusden Veharo 07-01-05, 03:11 PM	Polymorph Other gives the Int, other spells that I don't know of may as well. The challenge is getting the +9 duration modifier with as high an int as possible.
PhaedrusXY 07-01-05, 03:12 PM	Did you check out the 3.5 Polymorph Thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=175846)?
monkeycaster 07-01-05, 03:28 PM	The only way to get outsiders with Polymorph (that I know of) is to start off as an outsider. (Assimar, Tiefling, Half Celestial, Half Demon, Planetouched, Genesai, etc.) But, if you're going that route, you might as well go Elan, and go for an Aberration polymorph instead (into an Ulitharid(sp?)) for example. Check out the thread, though, as Phaedrus said. Also, I thought Polymorph other went away with 3.5 (replaced with just polymorph and polymorph any object)?
gabrion 07-01-05, 03:36 PM	White Ethergaunt is an Aberration from FF that has a base INT of 27. It's a good form for PaO.
Lusden Veharo 07-01-05, 03:56 PM	Unless there's some rule on multiple polymorphs that I'm not aware of, PaO into a Medium outsider with a lower int score. You get the +5 from same kingdom, +2 for same or lower int, +2 for same size. From there you can PaO into something much more suitable. Wasn't able to find the 3.5 Polymorph thread, thanks.
Snow Savant 07-01-05, 04:22 PM	Read the fine print for Polymorph inheritance and removal rules. Especially Skip's clarification for it in his 4-part Rules of the Game series. You'll find that technically, by the RAW, the "Spells" ability does not have a (Ex), (Su), or (Sp) tag on it. But is most definitely an attack ability. Thereby, allowable to assume using Polymorph rules. So, no, you don't want to think about assuming the forms of big-ass creatures like Giants, War Trolls, and what-not. You want to assume the form of creatures like the Abeil Queen (MM2). Specifically so you can add 16th level Druid spellcasting capability to your spellcaster's 14th level Draconic Polymorph session. You did Divine Metamagic/Persistant this spell, didn't you? High level spells trump all. And being an Abeil Queen means staying a medium-sized bipedal shape for all your magical gear as well.
PhaedrusXY 07-01-05, 04:56 PM	Wasn't able to find the 3.5 Polymorph thread, thanks.Uh... where it says 3.5 Polymorph thread in my first post? That's a link to it.
Borin 07-01-05, 05:09 PM	I think a caster with low bab can still be pretty good in melee with a form like cavetroll (mm3). It has a great natural attack routine (2claws+bite+2rakes, and it has pounce/rend/improved grab/daze), great str/con/natural armor. If you pick a weird feat like Power Lunge you'll probably outdamage the fighter. Another option: roper (mm1), it has 6 str-draining attacks.
Timlagor 07-01-05, 10:43 PM	You'll find that technically, by the RAW, the "Spells" ability does not have a (Ex), (Su), or (Sp) tag on it. But is most definitely an attack ability. Thereby, allowable to assume using Polymorph rules. Please show me a rules quote that says Spellcasting is an attack. Lots and lots of spells aren't attacks.
McJarvis 07-01-05, 11:21 PM	Please show me a rules quote that says Spellcasting is an attack. Lots and lots of spells aren't attacks. Check out any critter with spellcasting(such as Liches and Solars). Spells are listed under special attacks.
Timlagor 07-02-05, 01:20 AM	So they are. They are clearly not natural though -I certainly wouldn't allow it in any campaign I ran; it's blatant abuse. If spell-like aren't gained I really can't see any justification for getting spells.
McJarvis 07-02-05, 01:25 AM	So they are. They are clearly not natural though -I certainly wouldn't allow it in any campaign I ran; it's blatant abuse. I humbly bow to your good judgement :)