Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shalamar420 04-02-04, 06:40 PM	I'm just now a level 2 sorcerer and I forsee a future level setup of something like 9 levels Mage of the Arcane Order, 6 Sorcerer levels, and 5 Archmage levels. This is a rough outline based on maximizing the different skills, feats, etc. What I'm wondering is what levels should I take (is 6-9-5 good, or 5-10-5 or what?), and when I should take the levels. I saw one thread that pointed out that at level 6 a sorcerer will have better saves, ready go go to MotAA from there. Or is it as easy as 6 sorcerer, 9 MotAA, then 5 Archmage? I basically want a very versitile and powerful caster, whose goal is knowledge and power.
jensun 04-02-04, 08:00 PM	Personally I would go with 6/10/4 as your saves will be better. Are you playing 3.0 or 3.5? If 3.0 then I may be tempted to take all 5 levels of AcM and be damned with the saves. If 3.5 then I would avoid AcM due to the high pre-reqs and the change to spell power. If you want knowledge then you can mix in bits of loremaster, divine oracle or contemplative. If you want power take incantatrix, and 1 level of contemplative or 2 of witchhunter. You lose 1 caster level but gain Cha to saves. An alternative for lots of amusement is to get UMD as a class skill (versatility, human paragon, etc) and use staves with your huge skill bonus. Use the emulate class ability to get a much increased caster level when using the stave and get access to divine spells as well. Its quite expensive and it works best when your campaign allows custom skill boosting items. At epic levels master staff allows you to use your spell slots instead of charges effectively bypassing the limit on sorceror spells known. Of course, if the staff is sundered you are in trouble. I think this is legal but am not iron clad certain.
Shalamar420 04-02-04, 09:10 PM	I'm playing in 3.5, but we are mixing some 3.0 rules in too. Were all kinda new to the rules though. We havent played too much since the old 2.0 days You wouldnt do Archmage at all in 3.5? Is it that bad? I've read a little about the incantatrix, sounds cool and all, but the Archmage's spell abilities look even more heinous. I havent looked at the loremaster too much either, but it could be cool. All I know is that the Mage of the AA seems uber cool, the spellpool, feats, languages, and the order politics are sweet. Archmage just seemed like icing on the cake with master of shaping, etc. Edit: Damn I say 'cool' to much.
jensun 04-03-04, 04:32 AM	The main problem with 3.5 atchmage are its pre-reqs. You have to take 3 feats which are quite useless to you. Losing out on 3 feats is a lot for a sorc. Spell Focus is simply a waste in 3.5 as you cannot reliably ensure that opponents will fail saves. As for its abilities the only ones I generally want nowadays are Mastery of Shaping and Mastery of Elements. Mastery of Shaping can be superceded by careful spell selection as can Mastery of Elements. Mastery of Counterspelling is OK but given the number of feats you need to get into AcM you probably arent going to have the 4 spare feats to make you a great counterspeller. (Improved Init, Heighten Spell, Improved Counter, Reactive Counter). Loremaster is an OK PrC. Its can be tricky for a sorc to meet the pre-reqs unless you take MotAO first. It also granst bardic knowledge and a range of fairly minor other abilities. Divine Oracle will get you the Divination Domain which gives you a bunch of useful clerical spells. Incantatrix is just all kinds of mad crazy broken. For the cheap cost of Iron Will, one metamagic feat, some skills you were taking anyway and a single school of magic you get: 4 metamagic feats Improved Metamagic Instant Metamagic 2/day The ability to steal other peoples spells that are in effect! The ability to add metamagic effects to a durational spell after it has been cast! This means you use lower levels spell slots for your long duration buffs and cab add persistent to spell potentially to any level of spell. Tjis works best if your campaign allows custom magic items to add to skills. Finally, yes MotAO is a superb PrC for sorcs. Spellpool is excellent, essentially unlimited in its use outside of combat (spellpool debt is a joke as far as limitations go) and will let you use all of the item creation feats as much as you want. If I were running a 3.5 sorc I would probably do something like, Sorc5/Incantatrix10/MotAO4/Contemplative 1 if the campaign was likely to go epic.
Shalamar420 04-03-04, 02:10 PM	Excellent, thanks for the response. I hear a lot of people drooling over the incantatrix and you're right, the feats wasted on the Archmage are really silly. I havent seen a 3.5 incantatrix though, is there such a beast? Now I just have to find out about the Contemplative, I've never run across them before. I've seen the class mentioned often of the boards though. Oh... What about the XP penalties, wont I get some major hits? Or do they not apply to the Prestige classes? Yes I'm still a newbie to the rules. :rolleyes:
Hanniball 04-03-04, 02:35 PM	XP penalites do not apply to prestige classes. contemplative is in the Defenders of the Faith splatbook. careful, though, it doesn't increase your'e spellcasting ability as a sorcerer, so if you take more than 2 levels in it pre-epic, you won't get 9th level spells. 3.5 archmage is still okay, the feat prereqs do hurt a lot as other posters have stated, but it might be a viable option for blaster sorcerers. Elemental mastery doesn't use up a spell slot higher and isn't a metamagic feat so it's not a full round action to utilize it, IIRC. Finally, Incantatrix is in the new Faerun players guide (3.5) or the Magic of Faerun book (3.0) my choice for this build type would be Sor 5/MotAO 7/Fatespinner 2/Contemplative 1/Acm 5 (3.0) or Sor 5/MotAO 7/Incantatrix 7/Acm 1 (3.5) either way...just my 0.02 cp
Deuteros 04-03-04, 04:45 PM	I played a Loremaster / Archmage and the first 2 levels of Harper Mage (FRCS) really helped with 2 prerequisite feats (Skill Focus: Spellcraft and Knowledge). Level 3 grants you a nice ability also (free extend spell, Cha bonus / day).
gkp79 04-03-04, 05:57 PM	contemplative is in the Defenders of the Faith splatbook. careful, though, it doesn't increase your'e spellcasting ability as a sorcerer, so if you take more than 2 levels in it pre-epic, you won't get 9th level spells. But once you go epic if you keep taking +1 spell casting level classes then you can finish off the spell progression right? Or do I have that misunderstood and you can never pick up those lost spell caster levels once you are epic?