Best Psi-Gish? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Psi-Gish? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gerdreg
06-21-05, 07:35 AM Based purely on ML(manifester level) and BAB, what is better than than...
Wilder 10/ Illithid Slayer10
ML = 19(9th level powers), BAB = 17
As a bonus can wear light armor.
lgw
06-21-05, 08:32 AM based on gish-q... not much.

but gish-q isnt the only thing - you lack much flexibility as wilder.
i'd rather recommend psywar10/illith10 for equal bab/ml. you get also more feats for melee / manifesting boost and better balanced saves. use this, to get energy missile / cone / ball (whichever you like most) - this is far enough of blasting capacity you need.
gishs - to me - should more rely on buffing than blasting - combined with the more feats, it should give much better results and not too many problems with "rather low" psi points.
Tempest Stormwind
06-21-05, 09:02 AM The widely accepted "best psi-gish" is usually Egoist / Slayer (not the Illithid Slayer; use the SRD version, which is much stronger). Some versions add one or two Ranger levels for more base attack, free Track, the appropriate class skills, and a few other hidden bonuses (like the ability to use ranger wands).

Egoist is chosen due to free access to the Metamorphosis powers, which (being based off of the oh-so-bent Polymorph) are obscenely strong. They also have higher power points than the psychic warrior and a buff list which is nearly as strong (although WAY stronger if you consider Metamorphosis).

Oh, and Illithid Slayer provides full armor proficiency.
lgw
06-21-05, 09:16 AM thats true, for sure. i just wanted to point out a better options while still preserving the "optimal" gish q.

tough the ranger1/egoist4/elocator6/slayer9 has some appeal to me (slayer10 is a dead lvl anywhere, if you do not run into illithids every 2nd adventure).
you lose one more ml thant ranger1/fighter1/egoist8/slayer10 but gain a huge bunch of bonuses, including saves, movement and foremost free known psionic teleport and planeshift (bab 16 both, ml 16 vs ml 17).
FabulousRex
06-21-05, 10:37 AM A great option for a Psi-Gish is in Eberron, a Shifter Wilder/Ranger/Slayer. With their Racial Substitution levels in Wilder, a Shifter gains access to Egoist powers for free on his Wilder powers known. Pick up Shifter feats for combat that buff you up, and all you'll need is some blasting and the occasional Greater Metamorphasis.
Gerdreg
06-21-05, 10:51 AM Someone just pointed out this seemingly uber class to me...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d

It is literally a combination of the weapon master and kensai PrCs with full BAB and half-manifester progression.

Some builds that come to mind are
Psychic Warrior 10/ Psychic Weapon Master 10 and
Psychic Warror 5/ Warmind 5/ Psychic Weapon Master 10
FabulousRex
06-21-05, 10:54 AM For that one, Fighter2/Psion8/PWM10 is probably your best bet. Far better PPs, higher-level powers, and if you're an Egoist, great buffing powers available too.
carnivore
06-21-05, 01:13 PM check out the PrC "Sanctified Mind"(Lords of madness)...full BAB, 5/6 Manifester, nice abilities

try this:

Psion 8/ slayer 9/ sanctified mind 3

BAB +16
18th lvl Manifester
9th lvl powers

or

Ranger 1/ Psion 6/ Slayer 9/ Santified mind 4
Ranger 1/ Psion 6/ Slayer 7/ Santified mind 6

BAB +17
17th lvl Manifester
9th lvl powers

for variety try this:

ranger 1/ Wilder 4/ Elocator 6/ Slayer 9

BAB +17
16th lvl manifester
8th lvl powers

:D
Tempest Stormwind
06-21-05, 08:27 PM Someone just pointed out this seemingly uber class to me...
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d

It is literally a combination of the weapon master and kensai PrCs with full BAB and half-manifester progression.

Some builds that come to mind are
Psychic Warrior 10/ Psychic Weapon Master 10 and
Psychic Warror 5/ Warmind 5/ Psychic Weapon Master 10
Except, as anyone who's played one will tell you, the lack of PP is killer, especially since the other abilities mostly cost PP or your focus (which is indirectly related to PP). And the second build, while it does have more power points, will have at most ML 10 in one of the classes (probably War Mind) and ML 5 in the other. Hardly gishworthy.

The SRD Slayer and to a lesser extent the PWM are the strongest things printed for psionics. And you'll note how compared to many things available for casters, they're still a bit on the weak side.
PhaedrusXY
06-21-05, 08:39 PM One of Carnivore's builds with Elan as the race (for the weird damage reduction ability) would be my choice for a high manifester level "gish". However, I think a Warmind/Elocater would be more fun to play. I'm dying to play this one (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6158716&postcount=14), if I ever get the chance.
carnivore
11-30-05, 06:58 PM :D :bump: to save

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gerdreg 06-21-05, 07:35 AM	Based purely on ML(manifester level) and BAB, what is better than than... Wilder 10/ Illithid Slayer10 ML = 19(9th level powers), BAB = 17 As a bonus can wear light armor.
lgw 06-21-05, 08:32 AM	based on gish-q... not much. but gish-q isnt the only thing - you lack much flexibility as wilder. i'd rather recommend psywar10/illith10 for equal bab/ml. you get also more feats for melee / manifesting boost and better balanced saves. use this, to get energy missile / cone / ball (whichever you like most) - this is far enough of blasting capacity you need. gishs - to me - should more rely on buffing than blasting - combined with the more feats, it should give much better results and not too many problems with "rather low" psi points.
Tempest Stormwind 06-21-05, 09:02 AM	The widely accepted "best psi-gish" is usually Egoist / Slayer (not the Illithid Slayer; use the SRD version, which is much stronger). Some versions add one or two Ranger levels for more base attack, free Track, the appropriate class skills, and a few other hidden bonuses (like the ability to use ranger wands). Egoist is chosen due to free access to the Metamorphosis powers, which (being based off of the oh-so-bent Polymorph) are obscenely strong. They also have higher power points than the psychic warrior and a buff list which is nearly as strong (although WAY stronger if you consider Metamorphosis). Oh, and Illithid Slayer provides full armor proficiency.
lgw 06-21-05, 09:16 AM	thats true, for sure. i just wanted to point out a better options while still preserving the "optimal" gish q. tough the ranger1/egoist4/elocator6/slayer9 has some appeal to me (slayer10 is a dead lvl anywhere, if you do not run into illithids every 2nd adventure). you lose one more ml thant ranger1/fighter1/egoist8/slayer10 but gain a huge bunch of bonuses, including saves, movement and foremost free known psionic teleport and planeshift (bab 16 both, ml 16 vs ml 17).
FabulousRex 06-21-05, 10:37 AM	A great option for a Psi-Gish is in Eberron, a Shifter Wilder/Ranger/Slayer. With their Racial Substitution levels in Wilder, a Shifter gains access to Egoist powers for free on his Wilder powers known. Pick up Shifter feats for combat that buff you up, and all you'll need is some blasting and the occasional Greater Metamorphasis.
Gerdreg 06-21-05, 10:51 AM	Someone just pointed out this seemingly uber class to me... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d It is literally a combination of the weapon master and kensai PrCs with full BAB and half-manifester progression. Some builds that come to mind are Psychic Warrior 10/ Psychic Weapon Master 10 and Psychic Warror 5/ Warmind 5/ Psychic Weapon Master 10
FabulousRex 06-21-05, 10:54 AM	For that one, Fighter2/Psion8/PWM10 is probably your best bet. Far better PPs, higher-level powers, and if you're an Egoist, great buffing powers available too.
carnivore 06-21-05, 01:13 PM	check out the PrC "Sanctified Mind"(Lords of madness)...full BAB, 5/6 Manifester, nice abilities try this: Psion 8/ slayer 9/ sanctified mind 3 BAB +16 18th lvl Manifester 9th lvl powers or Ranger 1/ Psion 6/ Slayer 9/ Santified mind 4 Ranger 1/ Psion 6/ Slayer 7/ Santified mind 6 BAB +17 17th lvl Manifester 9th lvl powers for variety try this: ranger 1/ Wilder 4/ Elocator 6/ Slayer 9 BAB +17 16th lvl manifester 8th lvl powers :D
Tempest Stormwind 06-21-05, 08:27 PM	Someone just pointed out this seemingly uber class to me... http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d It is literally a combination of the weapon master and kensai PrCs with full BAB and half-manifester progression. Some builds that come to mind are Psychic Warrior 10/ Psychic Weapon Master 10 and Psychic Warror 5/ Warmind 5/ Psychic Weapon Master 10 Except, as anyone who's played one will tell you, the lack of PP is killer, especially since the other abilities mostly cost PP or your focus (which is indirectly related to PP). And the second build, while it does have more power points, will have at most ML 10 in one of the classes (probably War Mind) and ML 5 in the other. Hardly gishworthy. The SRD Slayer and to a lesser extent the PWM are the strongest things printed for psionics. And you'll note how compared to many things available for casters, they're still a bit on the weak side.
PhaedrusXY 06-21-05, 08:39 PM	One of Carnivore's builds with Elan as the race (for the weird damage reduction ability) would be my choice for a high manifester level "gish". However, I think a Warmind/Elocater would be more fun to play. I'm dying to play this one (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=6158716&postcount=14), if I ever get the chance.
carnivore 11-30-05, 06:58 PM	:D :bump: to save