Best Psionic Discipline for a Cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Psionic Discipline for a Cleric? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Augurer
11-16-06, 03:50 PM I'm interested in running a Kalashtar Cleric/Psion starting at 1st level in my new Eberron campaign, and I'm looking for opinions on what the best discipline would be for such a character?

Clearly as a Cl/Ps I'll have some MAD issues, especially with only a 28 pt buy. What do you think the best attribute spread would be?

Ideally I'm looking for a character that can provide the healing my party needs with some nuking power (or can a Psion do something other than nuke better than a cleric? seems like clerics have curing/healing, buffing, and versatility in spades... so the nuking seems the best choice to me from the Psion abilities). I'm limited Core + XPH + ECS for the most part. I might buy Faiths of Eberron and I have access to a Races of Eberron.

Another possibility would be doing a Cleric/Wilder. I'm just not sure that makes much "sense" from a roleplaying PoV. It's also somewhat unappealing because I'd be taking an XP hit as neither Wilders nor Clerics are a preferred class for Kalashtar. I could go Human with this combo, to eliminate that issue.

Thanks for your insight!
carnivore
11-16-06, 04:08 PM if you want to go Cleric/ Wilder.........take the feat: Choosen of Aurifar(Sandstorm).....gives Cleric as an ADDITIONAL favored class...but must have Aurifar as Patron(actually not too bad either)...but it is not in a book you have listed.

i do prefer Psion to Wilder......try this:

Kalashtar

Cleric/Psion

10 Str
12 Dex
12 Con
14 Int
14 Wis
14 Cha

something like:

Cleric 3/ Psion 5/ Psychic Theurge 10/ Contemplative 1/ xxxxxx

Psychic Theurge is found here:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b

:D
Augurer
11-16-06, 04:17 PM Thanks for the input! What do you think for a discipline?

And any particular reason why I should go Cl 3/Ps 5 instead of the inverse? The additional skill points are appealing, I must say. Psychic Theurge is a definite bonus... I hadn't seen that before, and I was really envious of the Mystic Theurge PrC :)

I was thinking of doing Healing and Sun for my Cleric Domains. Luck doesn't seem that great in an Eberron setting (action points are available for rerolls). Travel is nice, but as a Cl/Ps in heavy armor, Freedom of Movement isn't that important IMO, and I can get effectively the same spells by choosing Nomad discipline if I want them.
GaffeR
11-16-06, 04:21 PM Kineticist (Nuke)
Telepath (Mind control)
Nomad (if you don't take the Travel domain)

Telepath would probly be the most PP efficient way of screwing with your enemies. EK (Metamorphosis) wouldn't be bad either. I suppose you could take Shaper if you want to summon, but you might as well just EK it.
carnivore
11-16-06, 04:29 PM And any particular reason why I should go Cl 3/Ps 5 instead of the inverse? The additional skill points are appealing, I must say. Psychic Theurge is a definite bonus... I hadn't seen that before, and I was really envious of the Mystic Theurge PrC :)

Psion 5 gives a bonus Feat

thisTelepath would probly be the most PP efficient way of screwing with your enemies. EK (Metamorphosis) wouldn't be bad either. I suppose you could take Shaper if you want to summon, but you might as well just EK it.is a great idea;) ...as Clerics are Wisdom/Charisma based...Telepaths are Int/Cha based

I was thinking of doing Healing and Sun for my Cleric Domains. Luck doesn't seem that great in an Eberron setting (action points are available for rerolls). Travel is nice, but as a Cl/Ps in heavy armor, Freedom of Movement isn't that important IMO, and I can get effectively the same spells by choosing Nomad discipline if I want them.

try using the Spontaneous Domain Casting Variant from PHBII(pick Healing)...if possible

if not.........Travel,Animal are nice......also Celerity, Animal.......especially if you can use Divine Metamagic(Persistant)

you may want to get something like this:

Lawful Good

Cleric 3/ Psion 5/ Psychic Theurge 10/ Contemplative 1/ Church inquisitor 1/ Divine Oracle 1

:D
Augurer
11-16-06, 04:38 PM What does EK stand for?

What is the Spontaneous Domain Casting variant in PHB II (I don't believe anyone in our group has that book)? Is that the same thing as the feat in the Faiths of Eberron book, where one can eschew a Turning Attempt for a Domain spell?

I really want to avoid the Divine Metamagic stuff. Everything I've read makes it sound cheesy and overpowered, and the genesis of CoDzilla.

I definitely like the Cl 3/Ps 5/Psychic Theurge X (not sure we'll make it into level 18+ to worry about additional PrCs). Healing/Travel with Telapathy discipline sounds good. I'm not familiar with Celerity... in what book is that contained? I've never been a big fan of "pets", so Animal is out... and I don't intend on getting a Psicrystal.

What feats would you suggest (avoiding anything that will make me CoDzilla)?
carnivore
11-16-06, 04:45 PM EK=Expanded Knowledge

the reason for the Animal Domain.....Shapechange is the spell it gives at 9th level

Celerity is in Complete Divine........gives...Haste,Improved Blink, Time Stop

:D
Augurer
11-16-06, 04:59 PM I wouldn't actually ever get up to Shapechange, would I? With Cl 3 and Psychic Theurge 10, that only puts my Divine Spellcasting level at 13, correct? Which caps me out at 7th level spells. Even if I went up to Cl 5/Ps 5, I'd be capped at 15th caster level, giving access to 8th level spells. Shapechange, as you said, is 9th level.

I could get Greater Metamorphosis if I went Cl 3/Ps 7/ Psychic Theurge and chose Egoist discipline, but, like I said, I doubt we'll get up to levels that high, and Egoist doesn't seem to offer much of use to a Cl/Ps.
MasonZII
11-16-06, 05:00 PM Expanded Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#expandedKnowledge), psionic feat in SRD for adding any power to your power's known list.

If you want nuking, Kineticist is the clear choice, although it's worth noting that psionic powers are flexible enough that you needn't take many to fill a role. So taking EK: Energy Missiles as a feat would let any psion discipline use one of the better Kineticist-only powers.

Telepath might synergize well, since undead are usually such a problem for them. Nomad is out if you take Travel, little point. Egoist wouldn't really overlap with Healing, and metamorphosis is always nice, so that's a possibility. Seer likely wouldn't help much, and Shaper could add some nice utility and battlefield control. Kineticist has the nukes, of which Energy Ball and Energy Missile are likely the most interesting.

Philosophically, the thing that psions do well is have constant access to a wide variety of flexible abilities. Although the roughly equivalent arcane and divine buff/utility/control/SoD spells are usually more potent and efficient (purely my opinion), a well-built psion usually has something reasonably optimal to bring to every situation. So even if you're primarily seeking damage from your manifesting, you won't need many damaging powers, and the rest of those power slots can go toward adding blades to your swiss army knife.
Augurer
11-16-06, 05:53 PM I must say I'm not particularly impressed with many of the powers in the specific disciplines, after a review.

Egoist seems useful if I want to be physically combat orientated. Thicken Skin, Animal Affinity, and Metamorphosis would increase my combat ability. If I went that route, it'd probably make most sense to go Cl 13/Ps 3/Psychic Theurge 4, as the powers above level 4 seem unnecessary, and the Cleric has a better BAB advancement. And it seems to me there must be better ways to get physical combat prowess than being an Egoist.

Kineticist gives me the nuking power, and seems the most useful so far to me, aside from going Sorc or Wizard... but then I can't wear heavy armor without significant penalties.

Nomad seems pretty much like taking the Travel domain, but without the Freedom of Movement ability.

I really cannot see any reason to choose Seer, other than for the skills it offers: Spot & Listen. Clerics get access to pretty good Divination spells.

Shaper seems about as good as Kineticist to me, in terms of offering abilities that Clerics don't normally have, but I can't see much use for the low-mid level powers unless we have a Warforged.

Telepath seems only moderately better than Shaper. Most of the powers just don't seem that spectacular in a relatively psionic free environment (even with using Psi/Magic transparency), until you get to the high level stuff which is just "save or die" ... which I can get as a Cleric (Slay Living... or just pick the War domain for Power Word: X).
tacoronte
11-16-06, 06:04 PM If you could sneak in Complete Psionics among the list of allowed books, your best bet will be the Ardent class.
It uses Wisdom as casting stat, and you won't loose as many Cleric Caster Levels.

A Cleric 3/Ardent 1 with the Practiced Manifester feat qualifies for Psychic Theurge, due to the way that Ardents learn new powers.

Also, since you are primarily looking for nuking power, the Ardent main disadvantage (few know powers) is not that big of an issue for you. Taking the "Energy" mantle will give you all the offensive powers you'll need.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Augurer 11-16-06, 03:50 PM	I'm interested in running a Kalashtar Cleric/Psion starting at 1st level in my new Eberron campaign, and I'm looking for opinions on what the best discipline would be for such a character? Clearly as a Cl/Ps I'll have some MAD issues, especially with only a 28 pt buy. What do you think the best attribute spread would be? Ideally I'm looking for a character that can provide the healing my party needs with some nuking power (or can a Psion do something other than nuke better than a cleric? seems like clerics have curing/healing, buffing, and versatility in spades... so the nuking seems the best choice to me from the Psion abilities). I'm limited Core + XPH + ECS for the most part. I might buy Faiths of Eberron and I have access to a Races of Eberron. Another possibility would be doing a Cleric/Wilder. I'm just not sure that makes much "sense" from a roleplaying PoV. It's also somewhat unappealing because I'd be taking an XP hit as neither Wilders nor Clerics are a preferred class for Kalashtar. I could go Human with this combo, to eliminate that issue. Thanks for your insight!
carnivore 11-16-06, 04:08 PM	if you want to go Cleric/ Wilder.........take the feat: Choosen of Aurifar(Sandstorm).....gives Cleric as an ADDITIONAL favored class...but must have Aurifar as Patron(actually not too bad either)...but it is not in a book you have listed. i do prefer Psion to Wilder......try this: Kalashtar Cleric/Psion 10 Str 12 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 14 Cha something like: Cleric 3/ Psion 5/ Psychic Theurge 10/ Contemplative 1/ xxxxxx Psychic Theurge is found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b :D
Augurer 11-16-06, 04:17 PM	Thanks for the input! What do you think for a discipline? And any particular reason why I should go Cl 3/Ps 5 instead of the inverse? The additional skill points are appealing, I must say. Psychic Theurge is a definite bonus... I hadn't seen that before, and I was really envious of the Mystic Theurge PrC :) I was thinking of doing Healing and Sun for my Cleric Domains. Luck doesn't seem that great in an Eberron setting (action points are available for rerolls). Travel is nice, but as a Cl/Ps in heavy armor, Freedom of Movement isn't that important IMO, and I can get effectively the same spells by choosing Nomad discipline if I want them.
GaffeR 11-16-06, 04:21 PM	Kineticist (Nuke) Telepath (Mind control) Nomad (if you don't take the Travel domain) Telepath would probly be the most PP efficient way of screwing with your enemies. EK (Metamorphosis) wouldn't be bad either. I suppose you could take Shaper if you want to summon, but you might as well just EK it.
carnivore 11-16-06, 04:29 PM	And any particular reason why I should go Cl 3/Ps 5 instead of the inverse? The additional skill points are appealing, I must say. Psychic Theurge is a definite bonus... I hadn't seen that before, and I was really envious of the Mystic Theurge PrC :) Psion 5 gives a bonus Feat thisTelepath would probly be the most PP efficient way of screwing with your enemies. EK (Metamorphosis) wouldn't be bad either. I suppose you could take Shaper if you want to summon, but you might as well just EK it.is a great idea;) ...as Clerics are Wisdom/Charisma based...Telepaths are Int/Cha based I was thinking of doing Healing and Sun for my Cleric Domains. Luck doesn't seem that great in an Eberron setting (action points are available for rerolls). Travel is nice, but as a Cl/Ps in heavy armor, Freedom of Movement isn't that important IMO, and I can get effectively the same spells by choosing Nomad discipline if I want them. try using the Spontaneous Domain Casting Variant from PHBII(pick Healing)...if possible if not.........Travel,Animal are nice......also Celerity, Animal.......especially if you can use Divine Metamagic(Persistant) you may want to get something like this: Lawful Good Cleric 3/ Psion 5/ Psychic Theurge 10/ Contemplative 1/ Church inquisitor 1/ Divine Oracle 1 :D
Augurer 11-16-06, 04:38 PM	What does EK stand for? What is the Spontaneous Domain Casting variant in PHB II (I don't believe anyone in our group has that book)? Is that the same thing as the feat in the Faiths of Eberron book, where one can eschew a Turning Attempt for a Domain spell? I really want to avoid the Divine Metamagic stuff. Everything I've read makes it sound cheesy and overpowered, and the genesis of CoDzilla. I definitely like the Cl 3/Ps 5/Psychic Theurge X (not sure we'll make it into level 18+ to worry about additional PrCs). Healing/Travel with Telapathy discipline sounds good. I'm not familiar with Celerity... in what book is that contained? I've never been a big fan of "pets", so Animal is out... and I don't intend on getting a Psicrystal. What feats would you suggest (avoiding anything that will make me CoDzilla)?
carnivore 11-16-06, 04:45 PM	EK=Expanded Knowledge the reason for the Animal Domain.....Shapechange is the spell it gives at 9th level Celerity is in Complete Divine........gives...Haste,Improved Blink, Time Stop :D
Augurer 11-16-06, 04:59 PM	I wouldn't actually ever get up to Shapechange, would I? With Cl 3 and Psychic Theurge 10, that only puts my Divine Spellcasting level at 13, correct? Which caps me out at 7th level spells. Even if I went up to Cl 5/Ps 5, I'd be capped at 15th caster level, giving access to 8th level spells. Shapechange, as you said, is 9th level. I could get Greater Metamorphosis if I went Cl 3/Ps 7/ Psychic Theurge and chose Egoist discipline, but, like I said, I doubt we'll get up to levels that high, and Egoist doesn't seem to offer much of use to a Cl/Ps.
MasonZII 11-16-06, 05:00 PM	Expanded Knowledge (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#expandedKnowledge), psionic feat in SRD for adding any power to your power's known list. If you want nuking, Kineticist is the clear choice, although it's worth noting that psionic powers are flexible enough that you needn't take many to fill a role. So taking EK: Energy Missiles as a feat would let any psion discipline use one of the better Kineticist-only powers. Telepath might synergize well, since undead are usually such a problem for them. Nomad is out if you take Travel, little point. Egoist wouldn't really overlap with Healing, and metamorphosis is always nice, so that's a possibility. Seer likely wouldn't help much, and Shaper could add some nice utility and battlefield control. Kineticist has the nukes, of which Energy Ball and Energy Missile are likely the most interesting. Philosophically, the thing that psions do well is have constant access to a wide variety of flexible abilities. Although the roughly equivalent arcane and divine buff/utility/control/SoD spells are usually more potent and efficient (purely my opinion), a well-built psion usually has something reasonably optimal to bring to every situation. So even if you're primarily seeking damage from your manifesting, you won't need many damaging powers, and the rest of those power slots can go toward adding blades to your swiss army knife.
Augurer 11-16-06, 05:53 PM	I must say I'm not particularly impressed with many of the powers in the specific disciplines, after a review. Egoist seems useful if I want to be physically combat orientated. Thicken Skin, Animal Affinity, and Metamorphosis would increase my combat ability. If I went that route, it'd probably make most sense to go Cl 13/Ps 3/Psychic Theurge 4, as the powers above level 4 seem unnecessary, and the Cleric has a better BAB advancement. And it seems to me there must be better ways to get physical combat prowess than being an Egoist. Kineticist gives me the nuking power, and seems the most useful so far to me, aside from going Sorc or Wizard... but then I can't wear heavy armor without significant penalties. Nomad seems pretty much like taking the Travel domain, but without the Freedom of Movement ability. I really cannot see any reason to choose Seer, other than for the skills it offers: Spot & Listen. Clerics get access to pretty good Divination spells. Shaper seems about as good as Kineticist to me, in terms of offering abilities that Clerics don't normally have, but I can't see much use for the low-mid level powers unless we have a Warforged. Telepath seems only moderately better than Shaper. Most of the powers just don't seem that spectacular in a relatively psionic free environment (even with using Psi/Magic transparency), until you get to the high level stuff which is just "save or die" ... which I can get as a Cleric (Slay Living... or just pick the War domain for Power Word: X).
tacoronte 11-16-06, 06:04 PM	If you could sneak in Complete Psionics among the list of allowed books, your best bet will be the Ardent class. It uses Wisdom as casting stat, and you won't loose as many Cleric Caster Levels. A Cleric 3/Ardent 1 with the Practiced Manifester feat qualifies for Psychic Theurge, due to the way that Ardents learn new powers. Also, since you are primarily looking for nuking power, the Ardent main disadvantage (few know powers) is not that big of an issue for you. Taking the "Energy" mantle will give you all the offensive powers you'll need.