Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Madsvg 01-28-06, 10:48 AM	What is the best race to be if you intend to create an assassin? Only races without level adjustment please... if there exist something like that...
PhoenixInferno 01-28-06, 11:08 AM	When in doubt, go with Human. The extra feat and extra skill points are good.
the_LICH 01-28-06, 11:11 AM	Sun Elves make nice assassins too. The +2 int helps with the Death Attack DC.
Faithless the Wonder Boy 01-28-06, 11:24 AM	It really depends on the type of assassin you'd like to be. As was pointed out, human is good no matter what - any favored class, great skills, the bonus feat. Good stuff. For sneakier assassins, halfing, kenku (Monster Manual 3, was released as a preview and can be found by searching wizards.com for "kenku"), and whisper gnome (Races of Stone, was released as a preview and can be found by searching wizards.com for "whisper gnome") all work well - but then again, so does human. If I personally were ever to play an assassin, I'd probably play a changeling. I'd take the changeling rogue substitution levels (40 skill points at level 1 and skill mastery with a plethora of social skills? fun stuff). From there I might consider tossing in some levels of Warshaper, so that I never have to worry about carrying a weapon. If Dragon Magazine was allowed, I'd take the Poisoner prestige class (issue #312) instead of the actual assassin prestige class. Sorry, a bit of a non-sequiter, I was just thinking about what I'd play if I was ever in another evil game, and a changeling focused on social skills, sneak attack, and poison came to mind... although changeling is still an excellent assassin choice for obvious reasons (the rogue racial sub level for changelings is just incredible). And, in case you're wondering, that racial substitution level I like to rave about so much is found in Races of Eberron.
phoenxhwk 01-28-06, 11:30 AM	I'll second Faithless's vote for Changeling. Sure, it doesn't have any direct assassin-y flare like +2 int, but you've got the best base possible for infiltration type work.
sleepydeath 01-28-06, 01:01 PM	halfling or strongheart halfling
Zemyla 01-28-06, 01:58 PM	I'm thirding the vote for changeling. It's really nifty.
BarbeChenue 01-28-06, 06:27 PM	The best race is in Sandstorm. It's the Marrulurk: a 3 HD/LA +1 Monstrous Humanoid that looks like a werejackal hybrid, has 2d6 Sneak Attack, Death Attack (which stacks with Asn's), high stats for its ECL, poison use, bonus skills, etc. It's also (probably) the best race for making a Black Flame Zealot (+6 Wisdom and all complimentary stats and abilities).
AramilWindwalker 01-28-06, 07:34 PM	goblin. small size, dex bonus, hide/movesilently bonus, no int penalty. not bad for LA+0.Plus noone suspects the spanish inquisi....Goblin I mean.
The Grand Mystic 01-28-06, 08:08 PM	I'd also have to second Whisper Gnome (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=3) for the following reasons: - 30 foot land speed (even though they're small!) - Low-Light Vision AND Darkvision 60ft. (can see all the time, pretty much) - +4 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks - +2 to Spot and Listen checks (PHB gnomes only get +2 Listen) - Rogue as favored class They still get +1 attack on Kobolds/Goblinoids and +4 Dodge bonus against Giants as normal Gnomes do as well. With no LA, an overall great race for playing rogue.
Inkling 01-28-06, 08:33 PM	I would go with a changeling. We have a thread on the Eberron board where (so far) no one has found a way to track down a changeling assassin! So a changeling assassin would just copy a guard/friend/baker/candlestickmaker, whack a guy, then take off and no one would be able to track him magically. If a changeling wears a Hat of Disguise and maxes out their Disguise skill, there was almost no chance that someone would see thru their disguise. If you are a spellcaster, then you have access to all kinds of protections against divination such as Undetectable Alignment, Nystul's Magic Aura, NonDetection. Cloak of Khyber is a 3rd level Wiz/Sor spell (so it's available on an Eternal Wand) that makes you immune to True Seeing. Even if someone uses powerful magic to actually witness the murder (Postcognition, See Through Deadman's Eyes, etc), they will only see the guard/friend/baker/candlestickmaker and wont be able to Scry or otherwise magically track the assassin. The only danger is if they see the murder weapon then the magical tracker could use Locate Object/Scry/etc on that item. So the changeling would be very smart to take levels of Warshaper or Cabinet Trickster to gain natural weapons to do the dirty deed...that way there isnt an object for the trackers to home in on. And just make sure as an assassin you dont get greedy and steal any items since those items could be easily tracked too. And just to be extra cautious (and just for the fun of it) make sure the person you are imitating doesn't have an alibi. It's always best to give the track dogs a red herring to chew on.
Vaelan 01-28-06, 09:25 PM	The best race is in Sandstorm. It's the Marrulurk: a 3 HD/LA +1 Monstrous Humanoid that looks like a werejackal hybrid, has 2d6 Sneak Attack, Death Attack (which stacks with Asn's), high stats for its ECL, poison use, bonus skills, etc. Their Death Attack ability does not state that it stacks with the Assassin's, whereas other Death Attack abilities explicitly state that they do stack. Further, the Marrulurk's Death Attack DC isn't even based on hitdice, so they have no way in which to stack. As such, we have no choice to believe that they do not stack. I would go with the Tiefling using the Lesser Planetouched rule from the Player's Guide to Faerun.
AramilWindwalker 01-28-06, 09:30 PM	I'd also have to second Whisper Gnome (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20040807a&page=3) for the following reasons: - 30 foot land speed (even though they're small!) - Low-Light Vision AND Darkvision 60ft. (can see all the time, pretty much) - +4 racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks - +2 to Spot and Listen checks (PHB gnomes only get +2 Listen) - Rogue as favored class They still get +1 attack on Kobolds/Goblinoids and +4 Dodge bonus against Giants as normal Gnomes do as well. With no LA, an overall great race for playing rogue. Damn, whisper gnomes are broken..... My DM would kick me in the face if I tried using that in his games...
Vikjunk 01-28-06, 09:37 PM	If I personally were ever to play an assassin, I'd probably play a changeling. I'd take the changeling rogue substitution levels (40 skill points at level 1 and skill mastery with a plethora of social skills? fun stuff). From there I might consider tossing in some levels of Warshaper, so that I never have to worry about carrying a weapon. If Dragon Magazine was allowed, I'd take the Poisoner prestige class (issue #312) instead of the actual assassin prestige class. True, the Poisoner is a nasty prestige class if used right. I think if I would use it I would go with Rogue 1-2/Artifacer 1-2/Rogue 3/Poisoner 1-10/Rogue 4-8. And use the Magical Poisons Qualities feature from Dragon Magazine #322. It can get quite expensive to make some of the poisons but it gives you a wide range of flexibility with poisons. You can also lessen the cost with different feats like Apprentice (Craftsmen), Magical Artisan (Brew Potions), and Extraordinary Artisan. You would also need to grab Practiced Spellcaster so that you can make some of the poison enchantments. And with using a Changeling it makes it easier to get close to your target. At the very least it would be a good Cohort for an Assassin to supply poisons.
Tlazcotl 01-28-06, 11:22 PM	It's too bad that Changelings aren't able to enter the Chaemeleon PrC in Races of Destiny. You'd think that they would since both humans and dopplegangers are able to. I think that they could really compliment that class.
Vikjunk 01-28-06, 11:40 PM	It's too bad that Changelings aren't able to enter the Chaemeleon PrC in Races of Destiny. You'd think that they would since both humans and dopplegangers are able to. I think that they could really compliment that class. Read the Adaptation note for the Chameleon PrC. It mentions that in the Eberron setting that Changelings should be eligible for both Chameleon PrC and Able Learner feat. Which could be interpreted as meaning that if you have Changelings in your campaign it should be able to apply to them since Changelings are a race specific to Eberron.
Tlazcotl 01-28-06, 11:56 PM	Read the Adaptation note for the Chameleon PrC. It mentions that in the Eberron setting that Changelings should be eligible for both Chameleon PrC and Able Learner feat. Which could be interpreted as meaning that if you have Changelings in your campaign it should be able to apply to them since Changelings are a race specific to Eberron. Sweet! Sorry about that. I always miss the PrC adaptive paragraphs in the newer books. Thanks for the heads up.
Madsvg 01-29-06, 02:24 PM	Hey! thanks guys! this helps me alot. but I got another favour to ask. Could you help me optimizing a 6th level changeling assassin? this includes the 130000 gp(+,- 1000gp) to buy equipment for... give it your best shot. this is an actual character I'm going to use in a game. Lets see who could make the best one. :D
Faithless the Wonder Boy 01-29-06, 02:33 PM	Be glad to help, but I need to know a few things first. What are you hoping for your assassin to be able to do? (Killing people, by the way, is not an appropriate answer - that much is obvious :P) Do you want someone that can infiltrate anywhere and carefully slip some poison into a drink? Do you want an assassin that can secretly get up close to someone and slit their throat when they don't expect it? Do you want an assassin that snipes from afar? Do you want an assassin that uses spells to research people, then comes up with spells perfectly designed to destroy them? Do you want an assassin that's really good at sneaking around and breaking into places? I mean, there's a million ways you could go with this... Books that are allowed would help as well.
Illithid13 01-30-06, 09:36 AM	I'm a big fan of the Wisper gnome or Changling. Wisper gnome has small class and a base speed of 30 so you're not gimped there. Changling is just spiffy with racial sub levels in rogue. I've got an assissan build in my sig, you might want to check out.
Madsvg 01-31-06, 09:43 AM	Be glad to help, but I need to know a few things first. What are you hoping for your assassin to be able to do? (Killing people, by the way, is not an appropriate answer - that much is obvious :P) Do you want someone that can infiltrate anywhere and carefully slip some poison into a drink? Do you want an assassin that can secretly get up close to someone and slit their throat when they don't expect it? Do you want an assassin that snipes from afar? Do you want an assassin that uses spells to research people, then comes up with spells perfectly designed to destroy them? Do you want an assassin that's really good at sneaking around and breaking into places? I mean, there's a million ways you could go with this... Books that are allowed would help as well. Well, what I want is an assassin that seaks up behind people and make a death attack that usually kills the creature. that would mean hide, move silently etc. + as big a chance of hitting as possible, while still having a AC to not die in the first attack from the enemy... what you got available as material to create this character is all DnD related books(complete adventurer/warrior, book of vile darkness etc.) but not magazines. oh. and another thing, the character is to be used in a 3.0/3.5 game...
brdxtrm 01-31-06, 10:17 AM	how about 3 Swashbuckler/3 Rogue to start, then enter into the Assassin prestige class until you get Hide in Plain Sight, and from there Telflammar Shadowlord. Or, you could use 3 levels of Rokugan Ninja (http://l5r.alderac.com/rpg/rokugan_ninja.pdf), if allowed, to replace the 3 rogue levels. It provides a virtual feat, Ninja Dodge, several exotic weapon proficiencies, and an extra point to your BAB. Have a high intelligence score to supplement your skill points and your Death Attack Save DC.
Illithid13 01-31-06, 01:23 PM	Just combind your assasin build with the TShadow Lord.
Khazra Reborn 01-31-06, 02:56 PM	Whisper gnome has the win. I think the thing i like most is the racial feat that silences the enemy on a sneak attack with NO SAVE. Practical use for spellcaster killing in general combat and also means guards won't call out for help when your breaking and enetering into your targets house...
Lyinginbedmon 01-31-06, 03:47 PM	Of note is that Invisibility is a great boon to all assassins. Those hoping to stealthily walk up to targets and kill them without warning or infiltrate strongholds for powerful targets will be unseen, and sniper types benefit also by having the -20 penalty to Hide (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm) checks after firing with the +40 to Hide checks from being Invisible. A Ring of Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#invisibility) is, therefore, a must for any assassin. Plus, of course, the target is flatfooted if it doesn't notice you :schemes: And at 20,000 GP, that leaves you with 110,000 GP to spend on other things, like powerful weaponry and AC bonuses, as well as more bonuses to Skills and DCs Yes, Changelings are good. Primarily, everyone chooses them over Doppelgangers because of the lower ECL, but Doppelgangers are better. For example, in the 'friend/baker/candlestick maker' example, a Changeling might be seen in the divination doing something that the f/b/c would never do (Barring outright murder of course) like smoking or cursing. This could potentially exhonerate the f/b/c and send the guards after this imposter. A Doppelganger would have read the mind of the f/b/c and know exactly how to and how not to act. Unfortunately, it appears that Assassins come in low ECLS....
Madsvg 02-02-06, 08:58 AM	Of note is that Invisibility is a great boon to all assassins. Those hoping to stealthily walk up to targets and kill them without warning or infiltrate strongholds for powerful targets will be unseen, and sniper types benefit also by having the -20 penalty to Hide (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm) checks after firing with the +40 to Hide checks from being Invisible. A Ring of Invisibility (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#invisibility) is, therefore, a must for any assassin. Plus, of course, the target is flatfooted if it doesn't notice you :schemes: And at 20,000 GP, that leaves you with 110,000 GP to spend on other things, like powerful weaponry and AC bonuses, as well as more bonuses to Skills and DCs Yes, Changelings are good. Primarily, everyone chooses them over Doppelgangers because of the lower ECL, but Doppelgangers are better. For example, in the 'friend/baker/candlestick maker' example, a Changeling might be seen in the divination doing something that the f/b/c would never do (Barring outright murder of course) like smoking or cursing. This could potentially exhonerate the f/b/c and send the guards after this imposter. A Doppelganger would have read the mind of the f/b/c and know exactly how to and how not to act. Unfortunately, it appears that Assassins come in low ECLS.... how about 3 Swashbuckler/3 Rogue to start, then enter into the Assassin prestige class until you get Hide in Plain Sight, and from there Telflammar Shadowlord. Or, you could use 3 levels of Rokugan Ninja, if allowed, to replace the 3 rogue levels. It provides a virtual feat, Ninja Dodge, several exotic weapon proficiencies, and an extra point to your BAB. Have a high intelligence score to supplement your skill points and your Death Attack Save DC. Both of you have failed to read my posts. Summary: Character level 6 Changeling Assassin. 13000gp not 130000gp it's my mistake, but as a level 6 you dont start with 130000... someone should have reminded me about that one... By the way, how much does it cost for a Int increasing magic item (+4 ->)? It seems to me like it's better just to boost the int, instead of using 18000 on an assassins dagger... it's just as well just to buy a +2 rapier and spend the money on other ability-increasers.
Reinhart 02-02-06, 09:38 AM	Okay, Mister Changling . . . here's your build. Monk 3/Swashbuckler 3/Monk of the Long Death 6/Assassin 8 and take Kung-Fu Genius. Max out your Int. Now you're adding Int to melee damage, AC, and Death Attack DC. Plus, you can kill without a weapon or armor. Plus, your Death Attack DC is 24+Int and you get Hide in plain sight. The only "weakness" is that it only gets a +15 BAB. I wouldn't worry about hide and move silently too much. You can spontaniously cast invisibility and silence if you need to, and your power to give yourself a completely new disguise in one turn means that disguise becomes your hide skill. A skill you'll get a +10 on because of your innate abilities. The person above mentioned a Hat of Disguise, I'm supposing this is to change the appearance of your clothes quickly, as the bonuses wouldn't stack. A much better investment is a vestment of many styles which can only be crafted by changlings and can physically take the appearance of any clothing and grants a +2 bonus to disguise. Plus, since it's not an illusion it can't be peirced by a strong will save. So, now you can walk right up to your mark, smiling as his friend, and deliver "the touch of death!" Then vanish and join the crowd of bystanders as someone different.
Slyver 02-02-06, 10:46 AM	Nice build Reinhart. Death attack DC is 24+Int though, although I am sure that is what you meant. Ability focus is a great feat for this type of build, another +2 to DC. Freezing the lifeblood is nice too if you can get your DM to agree that it should be based on int, both for prereqs and DC for a monk with kung fu genius/carmandine monk (The second is better generally). If you want, you could pick up the shadow-walker template, assuming you can buy it off. Great for an assassin. Sun school monk if you get the template is good too for the ability to DD in and death attack. Saves the need to sneak/hide. Just some thoughts, the build is sound (and cool flavor) and the feats are open (except Ability focus). Slyver
Reinhart 02-02-06, 04:00 PM	Glad to be of service! The reason I didn't mention Carmandine monk is that I can never remember the name of the feat and I haven't read enough about the order to know if it would be alright with an evil assassin in its ranks . . . of course you can always claim you were originally sent to infiltrate their ranks and learn their secret techniques, stealing away sacred scrolls for whatever cause you serve. I would favor Raptor School over Sun School, but there's no reason you can't learn and use both. The Raptor School synergizes very well with the Assassin's need to observe his enemy for three rounds. Now you automatically get bonuses to hit the target of your death attack! This build is based off of my criminal mastermind build, which is all about how to make the most of intelligence without resorting to high level arcane spells. Normally it's human and can take monk 2/swashbucker 4 for better saves, but as you can it's flexible for most races.
Madsvg 02-06-06, 03:53 PM	Okay, Mister Changling . . . here's your build. Monk 3/Swashbuckler 3/Monk of the Long Death 6/Assassin 8 and take Kung-Fu Genius. Max out your Int. Now you're adding Int to melee damage, AC, and Death Attack DC. Plus, you can kill without a weapon or armor. Plus, your Death Attack DC is 14+Int and you get Hide in plain sight. The only "weakness" is that it only gets a +15 BAB. I wouldn't worry about hide and move silently too much. You can spontaniously cast invisibility and silence if you need to, and your power to give yourself a completely new disguise in one turn means that disguise becomes your hide skill. A skill you'll get a +10 on because of your innate abilities. The person above mentioned a Hat of Disguise, I'm supposing this is to change the appearance of your clothes quickly, as the bonuses wouldn't stack. A much better investment is a vestment of many styles which can only be crafted by changlings and can physically take the appearance of any clothing and grants a +2 bonus to disguise. Plus, since it's not an illusion it can't be peirced by a strong will save. So, now you can walk right up to your mark, smiling as his friend, and deliver "the touch of death!" Then vanish and join the crowd of bystanders as someone different. HOLY SH**! Nice build "Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V" :D This is a keeper, the only problem is that I asked for a ECL 6 character, not a lvl 20... but at least I learn something from this. So. this is the build I've made thus far (Yeah I know it's open for a lot of improvement, but it's here you come in...): Changeling Rogue 5/ Assassin 1 str: 12 dex: 18 con: 14 Int: 18 wis: 14 cha: 10 Bab: +4 (I think...) Sneak attack: +4D6 AC: 23 Feats: ability-focus Weapon focus rapier Rapid reload Weap: +1 flaming rapier hand crossbow ++ I was thinking about exchanging the rapier with an +1 flaming dagger, and take the weapon-feat where I get to use dex instead of str when hitting... any more ideas?
Reinhart 02-06-06, 05:29 PM	Well, for using the above build I recommend this: LE Changling Swashbuckler 3/Monk 3 Keep the stats the way you have them. Bonus Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Finesse. 1st Level Feat: Dodge 3rd Level Feat: Mobility 6th Level Feat: Carmandine Monk Now, if you want a slow and steady power crawl that won't make your DM cringe for a long time then for 7th level take Assassin, for 8th take Monk of the Long Death, for 9th Assassin, for 10th Long Death . . . etc. 7 - Assassin 1 8 - MotLD 1 9 - Assassin 2 10 - MotLD 2 11 - Assassin 3 12 - MotLD 3 13 - Assassin 4 14 - MotLD 4 15 - Assasin 5 16 - MotLD 5 17 - Assassin 6 18 - MotLD 6 19 - Assassin 7 20 - Assassin 8 But how many games really go that far? That's why I recommend, if you expect the game to go on a while Swashbuckler 3/Monk 3/MotLD 6 by level 12. Yes, you're delaying death attack until then, but from that point on you're in good hands. Of course, there's also nothing wrong with Swashbuckler 3/Monk 3 and then taking Assassin till level 8. Then jumping to MotLD and and getting that spectacular +6 Death Attack DC at level 20, should you ever reach it. That's what's nice about this all the horrible flexibility and freedom! Oh no! Too many choices! :P I think you can't go wrong with the spring attack chain and raptor school, personally.
PhaedrusXY 02-06-06, 06:26 PM	Okay, Mister Changling . . . here's your build. Monk 3/Swashbuckler 3/Monk of the Long Death 6/Assassin 8 and take Kung-Fu Genius. Max out your Int. Now you're adding Int to melee damage, AC, and Death Attack DC. Plus, you can kill without a weapon or armor. Plus, your Death Attack DC is 14+Int and you get Hide in plain sight. The only "weakness" is that it only gets a +15 BAB.Very nice build. :D I think I like this better than the Teflemmar Shadowlord/Assassin builds (like the one in my sig). I'm a big monk fan anyway, and by using this build and the Sun School feat you can get to the point of being able to do long ranged death attacks via teleportation much faster than with my build. Especially if you buy a Cape of the Montebank before you hit assassin 7. :P
sabbattack 03-23-06, 07:19 PM	Very nice build Reinhart!! Can someone please mention where i can find the feats Kung-fu genious and Carmadine monk and some basics to what they do in case i cannot find the sourcebooks?
Lilt 03-23-06, 09:05 PM	To clear-up stuff about the Marrulurk: The death attack does scale with HD, and has a save DC of 10+(HD/2)+Cha. If HD weren't factored then it'd only have a save DC of 12. See Special Abilities in the MM for details on saves against special attacks. In 3.5, all HD are HD, so the save DC will scale with level. In the case of the Marrulurk Assasin, the saves probably wouldn't stack. There are two ways to look at it, however, either that they are two abilities with different strengths thus they don't stack or that they are two different abilities that both take effect under the same circumstance (meaning that the target needs to make two saves). I'd be tempted to lean with the fact that they didn't stack. As it works like the assasin's death attack, however, then it could in-theory be argued that other abilities which advance the assasin's death attack would also advance the Marrulurk's Death Attack. If the DM allowed the abilities to stack, which is a bit touchy, then a Marrulurk/Monk/Monk of the Long Death would be fairly formiddable. Marrulurk 3/Monk 3/Monk Of The Long Death 10/XYZ 4 DC 25+Cha mod death attack (could be 30 depending on your DM's interpretation) The following build could work in theory too: Marrulurk 3/Monk 1/Cleric (Travel) 4/Black Flame Zealot 6/Teflammar Shadowlord 6/BFZ+2 You can probably fit a level of dragonslayer amongst other things in there for the hell of it too. Marrulurk 3/Monk (Cobra Strike) 1/Cleric (Travel/Planning) 2/Dragonslayer 1/Black Flame Zealot 3/Contemplative (Darkness) 1/Black Flame Zealot +3/Teflammar Shadowlord 6/Black Flame Zealot +2 1 Iron Will 3 Ability Focus (Death Attack) Mo Dodge Cl Extend Spell 6 Mobility 9 Spring Attack Co Blind Fighting 12 Persistant Spell 15 Divine Metamagic (Persistant Spell) 18 Craven Cobra Strike monk gets Dodge as a bonus feat. I'm assuming that martial proficiency in the Kukri (gained through Dragonslayer) is enough to qualify for Black Flame Zealot (rather than exotic as it says in the PrC. What's with that?) Strong Wisdom and Charisma usage, to which it gets +6 and +4 racial bonuses respectively. DC 28+2+Cha mod death attack. 4d6+20 sneak-attack. Divine Metamagic for persistable spell fun (up-to 4th level).
catharz 03-23-06, 09:11 PM	The 'lurk's "death attack" is different from the assassin's and won't stack (at the very least there are the different relevant attribues). Don't worry. Forcing a character to make two saves (because death attack is a 'buff') is pretty badass. The MAD is a bit of an issue at that point, but the 'lurk get pretty nice ability scores too.
Dex 03-23-06, 10:42 PM	I dunno if anyone's already mentioned this, but the Darkstalker feat (Lords of Madness) is a must - make hide + MS checks even when they have blindsense, blindsight, tremoursense etc. etc. etc. The Fang of SSeth (Serpent Kingdoms) has a massively awesome special ability at 7th or 8th level - imp invisibility and personal silence for up to 6hr/day. Also the Ninja of the Crecent moon Prestiege Class (Sword and Fist) is awesome. Also Ninja Spy (Oriental Adventures), Invisible blade (Complete Adventurer). I reccomend taking monk or soulknife levels purely coz you'll never need to worry about leaving your sword behind ever again (though you won't be as effective). Edit: The feat Kung Fu genious is found in Dragon Magazine 316 or 317, the 'Dark Sun' one with the Animal Shen Article.
EntropicShadow 03-24-06, 12:18 AM	I like your build a lot Reinhart, and will probably use it sometime in the near future. Just one question. How are you getting into Monk of the Long Death that early? I thought you needed a base will save of +5 to qualify for it. Swashbuckler3/Monk3 should only give you +4.
Subedei 03-24-06, 03:19 AM	Where can Monk of the Long Death be found?
gino 03-24-06, 09:53 AM	What are the effects of "Kung Fu Genius" and "Carmandine Monk" ? Thanks in advance.
Raymond Steel 03-24-06, 10:06 AM	This is going to sound awful noobish but what book is the Changeling found in? My DM only allows official WoTC/FR books.
colm_l 03-24-06, 10:19 AM	Eberron core or MM3
Lilt 03-24-06, 11:12 AM	The 'lurk's "death attack" is different from the assassin's and won't stack (at the very least there are the different relevant attribues). Don't worry. Forcing a character to make two saves (because death attack is a 'buff') is pretty badass. The MAD is a bit of an issue at that point, but the 'lurk get pretty nice ability scores too.Actually, by my reading they are just two versions of the same ability. Note that it says that it otherwise works like the assasin's death attack, thus it interacts with other abilities as if it was the assasin's death attack. Still, I could see some DMs ruling that it was a different ability in which case two saves versus death are your friend. Even if your DM doesn't let it stack and you don't take any levels in assasin, the save DC will be 20+Cha mod. As Marrulurks get +4 charisma, the save DC will be competitive until 14th-16th level or so. Meanwhile the marrulurk's levels are completely open. IDHMBWM, but I'm pretty sure a marrulurk sacred fist would kick ass, if only you could figure-out a way to apply poison using your bare hands. Is there a feat somewhere that lets you deal slashing damage with unarmed attacks?
Surreal 03-24-06, 01:15 PM	Is there a feat somewhere that lets you deal slashing damage with unarmed attacks? I can only think of two options, but neither is a feat: 1) two levels of Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries - you can make unarmed strikes do slashing damage 2) claws of the talon (relic - CD) - increases monk damage as well
Reinhart 03-24-06, 02:34 PM	I like your build a lot Reinhart, and will probably use it sometime in the near future. Just one question. How are you getting into Monk of the Long Death that early? I thought you needed a base will save of +5 to qualify for it. Swashbuckler3/Monk3 should only give you +4. I don't keep my faerunian books with me anymore so I can't look it all up. I just remembered the skill requirements. But if it does require a base will of +5 that does mean that Monk of the Long Death needs to be delayed for a while and Assassin is taken until then. Using that information the build should work as: 1. Monk 1 2. Swashbuckler 1 3. Monk 2 4. Swashbuckler 2 5. Monk 3 6. Swashbuckler 3 7. Assassin 1 8. Assassin 2 9. Assassin 3 10. MotLD 1 11. MotLD 2 12. MotLD 3 13. MotLD 4 14. MotLD 5 15. MotLD 6 16. Assassin 4 17. Assassin 5 18. Assassin 6 19. Assassin 7 20. Assassin 8 It seems that no matter what you delay one great class feature to 20th. Usually with this build it's Hide in Plain Sight. It would be great to get it sooner but that's the reward for playing a character to level 20, I guess. Plus, you don't need HiPS to do a dissappearing act with your hide skill. Until you get HiPS, you can just use swift invisibility to get into a hiding position and assume a new disguise.