Best race for Archivist? Also, party optimization help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best race for Archivist? Also, party optimization help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tenken
05-30-06, 08:22 AM I'm trying to create an Archivist for another player in the group, but I'm stuck on trying to figure out the best race to use for it. We're given a set ability score by the DM: 16, 14, 13, 13, 10, 8, which are set in stone and can't be changed (everyone in the party has the exact same scores), so race is pretty important. I figured something that boosts Int would be great. Something that can boost Int and Wis would probably be better. Races and templates allowed are any race in the Faerun books, XPH, and races from PHB, that's it, no monstrous races. The character will be non-evil, and will most likely go 20 levels of Archivist, or take a prc after 11th level. Not sure about the prc, if any.

The party also has a bard that'll focus on Inspire Courage, so she figured an Archivist would be cool to have, as it'll give the party even more of a boost, plus it has the potential to do some nasty spell damage/field control stuff.
_J_
05-30-06, 08:33 AM Sun elf is an easy way to get more intelligence for no LA. Can't think of any other good and viable non-monstrous race.
HelloRaptor
05-30-06, 08:38 AM Grey Elf. It's pretty pimp for Archivist builds. Especially ones with stat spreads like that.
Tenken
05-30-06, 08:58 AM Hmm, okay, here's a dilemma, and it's getting a bit side-tracked, so hopefully you guys don't mind. Lemme explain everything first so you guys know what I'm needing. Our group has 3 players, so the DM is letting us each play 2 characters. The person I'm building this for basically plays just to hear the storyline given by the DM. Because of this and her lack of in-depth knowledge of the game, we figured it'd be best to let her play one easy character, and one that's more fun. So for the easy character, we figured she should play the party healer. Easy, no-brainer type of character. It's the second character where I thought she would have fun playing the Archivist.

The rest of the party: bard/sublime chord focusing on Inspire Courage, battlefield control, and all-around buffing up the group; druid/wiz/arcane hierophant who will tank alongside the animal companion; wiz/clr/mystic theurge blaster/battlefield control; rogue/assassin skill monkey; and the last two slots are the ones I'm trying to build for her: the party healer, and the archivist.

Okay, so here's what I was thinking when I originally posted this thread. I was thinking that the Archivist could focus on spellcasting, but also be a backup in melee (she's a newbie, and you know all newbies want to be good at everything, but she realizes that she can't be great at both, so she's willing to settle as backup melee). I actually do think that the party needs one more melee combatant anyways, because the rogue and the bard isn't good enough of a support (if I'm wrong, please let me know). Anyways, from what I'm seeing, it seems like the races that have +2 to Int also has -2 to a physical stat, which the Archivist just can't really handle. So now I'm thinking that maybe the Archivist should be the party healer, and her cleric can be the 'fun' character where she can focus on spells with it, but still be able to dish out melee damage when she needs to. On top of that, the Archivist can heal and buff party members with Dark Knowledge. Is this a good idea, or just plain dumb?

Perhaps the Archivist is the wrong way to go? Any help would be appreciated. I know this is turning to a "optimize my party", so I hope you don't mind. The bard, arcane hierophant, assassin, and mystic theurge are all pretty set in stone, as we've already got even background stories for them and all.
HelloRaptor
05-30-06, 09:12 AM Archivists are essentially Wizards who cast Divine Spells. Wizard BAB isn't so great for being melee anything. Granted, there's always the Divine Power/blah blah blah buff set, but it doesn't sound like she's the kind of player who'll be able to handle all of that.

Nor is the Archivist really a great Party Healer. I mean, they CAN be, but the inability to switch out spells for cure spells means they have to fill up their slots with cure spells. A Cleric can at least fill up on other stuff and then switch out Cures as necessary.

Why not have her make a Healer (base class) for the curative stuff, and another warrior type (Favored Soul if you want to stick with Divine foo?)?

Again, Archivist is only a melee class if you're down with all the spells used to specifically MAKE it a melee class.
Tenken
05-30-06, 09:24 AM Well, last campaign, she played a Cleric/Fist of Raziel, so she knows how to use Divine Power and the other melee buffs. Also, Spontaneous Healing feat (from complete divine) should be able to help out the healing dept? I dunno, was just an idea. I'm pretty lost on what she should play. She wants me to build the characters, coz she really just doesn't care about the numbers aspect of the game. She just likes the role-playing parts.

Maybe we don't need another melee character anyways? What do you guys think? I just don't think that a druid and his animal companion is enough in a party of 6, but I'm not sure.....
_J_
05-30-06, 09:57 AM I'd say you would probably find that another melee character might be a good thing to have, at least sometimes. Arcane heirophant and its companion familiar are pretty good at melee, but I'd not depend on them entirely. At least having some summoning ready would help when your getting hammered by lots of melee focused opponents.

I'm a big fan of the PrC Windwalker from Faiths and pantheons for a character that "can do anything" (full casting progression, fighter BAB, 4 + int skill points from a pretty good skill list, great class abilities), especially if coupled with Archivist for more skill points.

Human or Half-elf Ranger 1/Fighter 2/Archivist 4/Windwalker X is a pretty good start for a versatile character (Ranger for skills and Track, Fighter for bonus feats and BAB). It can cast and fight pretty well, even if is not amazing in either, has great skills and lots of flavor.
Tenken
05-31-06, 06:58 PM Okay, well, I've decided to go with Sun Elf for the Archivist. How should I allocate these stats: 16, 14, 13, 13, 10, 8 (before racial bonus). Remember, she'll be a spellcaster first, and melee combatant second (at level 7, she'll use Divine Power whenever going melee).

Also, what do you think the first level feat should be?
JulesCARV
05-31-06, 10:04 PM I must admit, I'm curious: you have a druid/wizard/arcane hierophant, a cleric/wizard/mystic theurge, and a bard/sublime chord, all of whom can cast healing spells. Granted, the dual casters won't be as good at healing as single casters would be, and bards are never too good at healing, but it looks to me like more healing isn't something you need.

Anyway, if she's going to be a sun elf archivist, I'd advise her to just stay out of mêlée as much as possible. She has d6 hit dice and a -2 constitution penalty. Assuming she puts her 16 into intelligence, that means that her constitution is, at best, 12, and that would involve taking her dexterity down to 13 for only +1 to AC from dexterity, with no heavy armor proficiency. Don't mess around with divine power/divine favor/righteous might nonsense: cast blasty druid spells and use Dark Knowledge.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tenken 05-30-06, 08:22 AM	I'm trying to create an Archivist for another player in the group, but I'm stuck on trying to figure out the best race to use for it. We're given a set ability score by the DM: 16, 14, 13, 13, 10, 8, which are set in stone and can't be changed (everyone in the party has the exact same scores), so race is pretty important. I figured something that boosts Int would be great. Something that can boost Int and Wis would probably be better. Races and templates allowed are any race in the Faerun books, XPH, and races from PHB, that's it, no monstrous races. The character will be non-evil, and will most likely go 20 levels of Archivist, or take a prc after 11th level. Not sure about the prc, if any. The party also has a bard that'll focus on Inspire Courage, so she figured an Archivist would be cool to have, as it'll give the party even more of a boost, plus it has the potential to do some nasty spell damage/field control stuff.
_J_ 05-30-06, 08:33 AM	Sun elf is an easy way to get more intelligence for no LA. Can't think of any other good and viable non-monstrous race.
HelloRaptor 05-30-06, 08:38 AM	Grey Elf. It's pretty pimp for Archivist builds. Especially ones with stat spreads like that.
Tenken 05-30-06, 08:58 AM	Hmm, okay, here's a dilemma, and it's getting a bit side-tracked, so hopefully you guys don't mind. Lemme explain everything first so you guys know what I'm needing. Our group has 3 players, so the DM is letting us each play 2 characters. The person I'm building this for basically plays just to hear the storyline given by the DM. Because of this and her lack of in-depth knowledge of the game, we figured it'd be best to let her play one easy character, and one that's more fun. So for the easy character, we figured she should play the party healer. Easy, no-brainer type of character. It's the second character where I thought she would have fun playing the Archivist. The rest of the party: bard/sublime chord focusing on Inspire Courage, battlefield control, and all-around buffing up the group; druid/wiz/arcane hierophant who will tank alongside the animal companion; wiz/clr/mystic theurge blaster/battlefield control; rogue/assassin skill monkey; and the last two slots are the ones I'm trying to build for her: the party healer, and the archivist. Okay, so here's what I was thinking when I originally posted this thread. I was thinking that the Archivist could focus on spellcasting, but also be a backup in melee (she's a newbie, and you know all newbies want to be good at everything, but she realizes that she can't be great at both, so she's willing to settle as backup melee). I actually do think that the party needs one more melee combatant anyways, because the rogue and the bard isn't good enough of a support (if I'm wrong, please let me know). Anyways, from what I'm seeing, it seems like the races that have +2 to Int also has -2 to a physical stat, which the Archivist just can't really handle. So now I'm thinking that maybe the Archivist should be the party healer, and her cleric can be the 'fun' character where she can focus on spells with it, but still be able to dish out melee damage when she needs to. On top of that, the Archivist can heal and buff party members with Dark Knowledge. Is this a good idea, or just plain dumb? Perhaps the Archivist is the wrong way to go? Any help would be appreciated. I know this is turning to a "optimize my party", so I hope you don't mind. The bard, arcane hierophant, assassin, and mystic theurge are all pretty set in stone, as we've already got even background stories for them and all.
HelloRaptor 05-30-06, 09:12 AM	Archivists are essentially Wizards who cast Divine Spells. Wizard BAB isn't so great for being melee anything. Granted, there's always the Divine Power/blah blah blah buff set, but it doesn't sound like she's the kind of player who'll be able to handle all of that. Nor is the Archivist really a great Party Healer. I mean, they CAN be, but the inability to switch out spells for cure spells means they have to fill up their slots with cure spells. A Cleric can at least fill up on other stuff and then switch out Cures as necessary. Why not have her make a Healer (base class) for the curative stuff, and another warrior type (Favored Soul if you want to stick with Divine foo?)? Again, Archivist is only a melee class if you're down with all the spells used to specifically MAKE it a melee class.
Tenken 05-30-06, 09:24 AM	Well, last campaign, she played a Cleric/Fist of Raziel, so she knows how to use Divine Power and the other melee buffs. Also, Spontaneous Healing feat (from complete divine) should be able to help out the healing dept? I dunno, was just an idea. I'm pretty lost on what she should play. She wants me to build the characters, coz she really just doesn't care about the numbers aspect of the game. She just likes the role-playing parts. Maybe we don't need another melee character anyways? What do you guys think? I just don't think that a druid and his animal companion is enough in a party of 6, but I'm not sure.....
_J_ 05-30-06, 09:57 AM	I'd say you would probably find that another melee character might be a good thing to have, at least sometimes. Arcane heirophant and its companion familiar are pretty good at melee, but I'd not depend on them entirely. At least having some summoning ready would help when your getting hammered by lots of melee focused opponents. I'm a big fan of the PrC Windwalker from Faiths and pantheons for a character that "can do anything" (full casting progression, fighter BAB, 4 + int skill points from a pretty good skill list, great class abilities), especially if coupled with Archivist for more skill points. Human or Half-elf Ranger 1/Fighter 2/Archivist 4/Windwalker X is a pretty good start for a versatile character (Ranger for skills and Track, Fighter for bonus feats and BAB). It can cast and fight pretty well, even if is not amazing in either, has great skills and lots of flavor.
Tenken 05-31-06, 06:58 PM	Okay, well, I've decided to go with Sun Elf for the Archivist. How should I allocate these stats: 16, 14, 13, 13, 10, 8 (before racial bonus). Remember, she'll be a spellcaster first, and melee combatant second (at level 7, she'll use Divine Power whenever going melee). Also, what do you think the first level feat should be?
JulesCARV 05-31-06, 10:04 PM	I must admit, I'm curious: you have a druid/wizard/arcane hierophant, a cleric/wizard/mystic theurge, and a bard/sublime chord, all of whom can cast healing spells. Granted, the dual casters won't be as good at healing as single casters would be, and bards are never too good at healing, but it looks to me like more healing isn't something you need. Anyway, if she's going to be a sun elf archivist, I'd advise her to just stay out of mêlée as much as possible. She has d6 hit dice and a -2 constitution penalty. Assuming she puts her 16 into intelligence, that means that her constitution is, at best, 12, and that would involve taking her dexterity down to 13 for only +1 to AC from dexterity, with no heavy armor proficiency. Don't mess around with divine power/divine favor/righteous might nonsense: cast blasty druid spells and use Dark Knowledge.