Best Race for Invisible Blade? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Race for Invisible Blade? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Diabolic Doppelganger
06-10-04, 12:48 AM For some reason, the IB seems really powerful (I like it).

I was thinking that the Tiefling would be a good race (we use the buyoff rules, but are starting at 7 level, so I wanted a decent build from start to finish).

Any comments, suggestions?
Spiralix
06-10-04, 01:46 AM The synchronicity of this creeps me out. I was thinking of doing the same thing in our campaign, which is starting at the same level.

The tiefling Int and Dex bonuses are nice, especially with a 3-level dip into Swashbuckler (if you have a high Int). Much synergy to be had.

Of course, with a human you could get into IB @ 6th instead of 7th, but what's the fun in that?

Let's see, build-wise:

1 - Rog 1 - Point Blank Shot
2 - Swb 1 - (B) Weapon Finesse
3 - Swb 2 - Far Shot
4 - Swb 3 - [Insightful Strike]
5 - Rog 2 - [Evasion]
6 - Rog 3 - Weapon Focus
7 - InvBld
That nets you a better Will save, but you don't have two-weapon fighting, which hurts. You could swap out Rog 2 & 3 for Ftr 1 & 2, which will net you 2 feats but hurt your skills and Will save.

Really, there's tons of ways to pull this off, it just depends on what's important to your party role and what your longer-term goals are.
POPE
06-10-04, 02:51 PM From what source is the invisible blade from?
RodIshiCi
06-10-04, 02:58 PM Originally posted by POPE
From what source is the invisible blade from?
Complete Warrior.
SaintX
06-10-04, 03:12 PM rogue5
IB5
monk1
tatooed monk1 (white mask)
swash3
masterthrower5
Diabolic Doppelganger
06-10-04, 05:06 PM I know that it is just icing on the cake, but Tiefling get a +2 racial bonus to Bluff :) .

I do not like the whole monk thing, it just does not seem to fit my idea of a "Dirty Fighter". Don't you see the way the half-elg in the picture grins (kinda crazy-like).

With the Tiefling bought off...

1 Rog (1)
2 Swa (1)
3 Swa (2)
4 Swa (3)
5 Rog (2)
6 IB (1)
7 Ass (1)

I took Assassin levels, because I think that 3.5 Assassin is worth it (At least more than Rogue).
catharz
06-10-04, 05:28 PM I would cast my vote for Lesser svirfneblin [PGtF].
LunarCaustic
06-10-04, 05:40 PM Halfings are always nice for the extra bonus with thrown weapons but I agree that Tiefling may be the best for this build if you are taking Swashbucker levels
Spiralix
06-10-04, 05:41 PM Originally posted by Diabolic Doppelganger
With the Tiefling bought off...

1 Rog (1)
2 Swa (1)
3 Swa (2)
4 Swa (3)
5 Rog (2)
6 IB (1)
7 Ass (1)

I took Assassin levels, because I think that 3.5 Assassin is worth it (At least more than Rogue).
You're short a feat fpr grabbing IB at 6th. IIRC, the IB requires
* Point Blank Shot
* Far Shot
* Weapon Focus

You could do it with:

6 Asn
7 IB
8 + Whatever

Irrelevant, really, but I playtest occasionally, so picking knits is important.

I'm tempted to recommend grabbing Weapon Focus at 3rd, Two-Weapon Fighting at 6th, and leave far shot until 9th, which means you'll pick up your first Invisible Blade level at 10th. YMMV.

Overall, it's not a bad build.
Furdaddy
06-10-04, 05:45 PM I don't know about a halfling, the -2 to damage (-1 for strength penalty, -1 for size) really hurts a combat character, even if he is relying primarily on SA damage. Then again, if you can get Dex to damage you can dump strength anyway.

On the upside, there's the +1 to hit from Dex, +1 to hit if throwing (but note that you can't feint to get SA on a throw). And, if you go strongheart, you get the bonus feat.

Tough call, but I'd say the Tiefling wins the day for the IB.
catharz
06-10-04, 05:49 PM Originally posted by Furdaddy
I don't know about a halfling, the -2 to damage (-1 for strength penalty, -1 for size) really hurts a combat character, even if he is relying primarily on SA damage. Then again, if you can get Dex to damage you can dump strength anyway.

On the upside, there's the +1 to hit from Dex, +1 to hit if throwing (but note that you can't feint to get SA on a throw). And, if you go strongheart, you get the bonus feat.

Tough call, but I'd say the Tiefling wins the day for the IB.

There is no damage penalty for being small sized. And you're forgetting the additional +1 to hit due to small size.
Spiralix
06-10-04, 05:49 PM Of course, drow kick the tiefling's ass but you'd be starting at 5 and buying off your first point of LA at next level.
Furdaddy
06-10-04, 06:14 PM Originally posted by catharz
There is no damage penalty for being small sized. And you're forgetting the additional +1 to hit due to small size.

You're right, I did forget about the +1 to hit due to size, excellent point.

But, you're wrong that there's no damage penalty. A medium dagger does a 1d4, a small dagger does 1d3. On average, that's half-a-point per hit (not -1, as I had said).
Elephant Jack
06-17-04, 06:19 AM Mhhh, the best race for an invisible blade?

Human :eek:

Why? No LA, bonus feat, bonus skills, any class can be your favorite...

Elephant Jack
El_Machinae
06-17-04, 11:39 AM Well, I'm partial to Marilith for an Invisible Blade. Statistically, it's not so good. but, what? a hundred sneak attacks a round?
pawsplay
06-17-04, 05:38 PM Hobgoblin. If you buy off your LA, +2 Dex and Con looks very tasty.

No, I'd like to change my vote. Bugbear/Rogue 3. +2 Dex, str bonuses, natural armor, darkvision 60 feet. Sure, humanoid HD are lousy, but I think in this case, it's not a big deal. The entrace requirements for the class are pretty light.
JosephKell
06-17-04, 05:49 PM An Initiative Race is the best race to enter. http://www.geocities.com/jonathanef/gejoetongue.txt

The Invisible Blade is already sort of made for an agile class, and you might benefit from Halflings... but since the change is so small, I would just recommend doing whatever fits your character's style.
Gruffmug
06-17-04, 08:06 PM Githzerai are great as well +6 dex plus a host of psi-like abilities they are even better when you are allowed the LA buy off.

My two cents
Gruffmug
pawsplay
06-17-04, 11:05 PM What about Cat People? +4 Dex is not bad at all.
Part-Human2
06-18-04, 02:03 AM Pixie!
OmegaNights
06-18-04, 01:39 PM Just a comment, I was to understand there has been errata to change the requirements of Invisible Blade... Far Shot is no longer required, and in its place is Weapon Finesse (which makes a lot more sense IMO).

Halfling (to me) just fits the flavor of the class... an underestimated combatant. Nobody suspects a halfling of ever hurting anyone, let alone in one-on-one combat against a large armored foe... it just makes the class more flavorful to have a halfling do it. And the +1 to hit is nice. Regarding the loss of damage (1d3 instead of 1d4), the big damage comes from the SAs, not the daggers, so I wouldn't concern myself with that too much.
rilem
06-18-04, 02:34 PM According to their site, WotC has issued no official errata at all on Complete Warrior. If you've seen a post from one of their biggies (or even cust. service), please post it.

You may be referring to posts by sonofapreacherman (the original author of the PC, when it was a 10-level PrC in Dragon) saying that those feats don't make sense with the revised class and suggesting some replacements. This, while it makes sense, is neither official nor errata.
OmegaNights
06-19-04, 10:48 AM Actually, I made a mistake, I was just skimming around the web and found what I thought was an errata but turned out to be an online site with that guy's personal house rules :embarrass

Nonetheless, as a DM I am allowing Weapon Finesse in replacement of Far Shot for a prerequisite... it just makes more sense, classwise and RP wise.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Diabolic Doppelganger 06-10-04, 12:48 AM	For some reason, the IB seems really powerful (I like it). I was thinking that the Tiefling would be a good race (we use the buyoff rules, but are starting at 7 level, so I wanted a decent build from start to finish). Any comments, suggestions?
Spiralix 06-10-04, 01:46 AM	The synchronicity of this creeps me out. I was thinking of doing the same thing in our campaign, which is starting at the same level. The tiefling Int and Dex bonuses are nice, especially with a 3-level dip into Swashbuckler (if you have a high Int). Much synergy to be had. Of course, with a human you could get into IB @ 6th instead of 7th, but what's the fun in that? Let's see, build-wise: 1 - Rog 1 - Point Blank Shot 2 - Swb 1 - (B) Weapon Finesse 3 - Swb 2 - Far Shot 4 - Swb 3 - [Insightful Strike] 5 - Rog 2 - [Evasion] 6 - Rog 3 - Weapon Focus 7 - InvBld That nets you a better Will save, but you don't have two-weapon fighting, which hurts. You could swap out Rog 2 & 3 for Ftr 1 & 2, which will net you 2 feats but hurt your skills and Will save. Really, there's tons of ways to pull this off, it just depends on what's important to your party role and what your longer-term goals are.
POPE 06-10-04, 02:51 PM	From what source is the invisible blade from?
RodIshiCi 06-10-04, 02:58 PM	Originally posted by POPE From what source is the invisible blade from? Complete Warrior.
SaintX 06-10-04, 03:12 PM	rogue5 IB5 monk1 tatooed monk1 (white mask) swash3 masterthrower5
Diabolic Doppelganger 06-10-04, 05:06 PM	I know that it is just icing on the cake, but Tiefling get a +2 racial bonus to Bluff :) . I do not like the whole monk thing, it just does not seem to fit my idea of a "Dirty Fighter". Don't you see the way the half-elg in the picture grins (kinda crazy-like). With the Tiefling bought off... 1 Rog (1) 2 Swa (1) 3 Swa (2) 4 Swa (3) 5 Rog (2) 6 IB (1) 7 Ass (1) I took Assassin levels, because I think that 3.5 Assassin is worth it (At least more than Rogue).
catharz 06-10-04, 05:28 PM	I would cast my vote for Lesser svirfneblin [PGtF].
LunarCaustic 06-10-04, 05:40 PM	Halfings are always nice for the extra bonus with thrown weapons but I agree that Tiefling may be the best for this build if you are taking Swashbucker levels
Spiralix 06-10-04, 05:41 PM	Originally posted by Diabolic Doppelganger With the Tiefling bought off... 1 Rog (1) 2 Swa (1) 3 Swa (2) 4 Swa (3) 5 Rog (2) 6 IB (1) 7 Ass (1) I took Assassin levels, because I think that 3.5 Assassin is worth it (At least more than Rogue). You're short a feat fpr grabbing IB at 6th. IIRC, the IB requires * Point Blank Shot * Far Shot * Weapon Focus You could do it with: 6 Asn 7 IB 8 + Whatever Irrelevant, really, but I playtest occasionally, so picking knits is important. I'm tempted to recommend grabbing Weapon Focus at 3rd, Two-Weapon Fighting at 6th, and leave far shot until 9th, which means you'll pick up your first Invisible Blade level at 10th. YMMV. Overall, it's not a bad build.
Furdaddy 06-10-04, 05:45 PM	I don't know about a halfling, the -2 to damage (-1 for strength penalty, -1 for size) really hurts a combat character, even if he is relying primarily on SA damage. Then again, if you can get Dex to damage you can dump strength anyway. On the upside, there's the +1 to hit from Dex, +1 to hit if throwing (but note that you can't feint to get SA on a throw). And, if you go strongheart, you get the bonus feat. Tough call, but I'd say the Tiefling wins the day for the IB.
catharz 06-10-04, 05:49 PM	Originally posted by Furdaddy I don't know about a halfling, the -2 to damage (-1 for strength penalty, -1 for size) really hurts a combat character, even if he is relying primarily on SA damage. Then again, if you can get Dex to damage you can dump strength anyway. On the upside, there's the +1 to hit from Dex, +1 to hit if throwing (but note that you can't feint to get SA on a throw). And, if you go strongheart, you get the bonus feat. Tough call, but I'd say the Tiefling wins the day for the IB. There is no damage penalty for being small sized. And you're forgetting the additional +1 to hit due to small size.
Spiralix 06-10-04, 05:49 PM	Of course, drow kick the tiefling's ass but you'd be starting at 5 and buying off your first point of LA at next level.
Furdaddy 06-10-04, 06:14 PM	Originally posted by catharz There is no damage penalty for being small sized. And you're forgetting the additional +1 to hit due to small size. You're right, I did forget about the +1 to hit due to size, excellent point. But, you're wrong that there's no damage penalty. A medium dagger does a 1d4, a small dagger does 1d3. On average, that's half-a-point per hit (not -1, as I had said).
Elephant Jack 06-17-04, 06:19 AM	Mhhh, the best race for an invisible blade? Human :eek: Why? No LA, bonus feat, bonus skills, any class can be your favorite... Elephant Jack
El_Machinae 06-17-04, 11:39 AM	Well, I'm partial to Marilith for an Invisible Blade. Statistically, it's not so good. but, what? a hundred sneak attacks a round?
pawsplay 06-17-04, 05:38 PM	Hobgoblin. If you buy off your LA, +2 Dex and Con looks very tasty. No, I'd like to change my vote. Bugbear/Rogue 3. +2 Dex, str bonuses, natural armor, darkvision 60 feet. Sure, humanoid HD are lousy, but I think in this case, it's not a big deal. The entrace requirements for the class are pretty light.
JosephKell 06-17-04, 05:49 PM	An Initiative Race is the best race to enter. http://www.geocities.com/jonathanef/gejoetongue.txt The Invisible Blade is already sort of made for an agile class, and you might benefit from Halflings... but since the change is so small, I would just recommend doing whatever fits your character's style.
Gruffmug 06-17-04, 08:06 PM	Githzerai are great as well +6 dex plus a host of psi-like abilities they are even better when you are allowed the LA buy off. My two cents Gruffmug
pawsplay 06-17-04, 11:05 PM	What about Cat People? +4 Dex is not bad at all.
Part-Human2 06-18-04, 02:03 AM	Pixie!
OmegaNights 06-18-04, 01:39 PM	Just a comment, I was to understand there has been errata to change the requirements of Invisible Blade... Far Shot is no longer required, and in its place is Weapon Finesse (which makes a lot more sense IMO). Halfling (to me) just fits the flavor of the class... an underestimated combatant. Nobody suspects a halfling of ever hurting anyone, let alone in one-on-one combat against a large armored foe... it just makes the class more flavorful to have a halfling do it. And the +1 to hit is nice. Regarding the loss of damage (1d3 instead of 1d4), the big damage comes from the SAs, not the daggers, so I wouldn't concern myself with that too much.
rilem 06-18-04, 02:34 PM	According to their site, WotC has issued no official errata at all on Complete Warrior. If you've seen a post from one of their biggies (or even cust. service), please post it. You may be referring to posts by sonofapreacherman (the original author of the PC, when it was a 10-level PrC in Dragon) saying that those feats don't make sense with the revised class and suggesting some replacements. This, while it makes sense, is neither official nor errata.
OmegaNights 06-19-04, 10:48 AM	Actually, I made a mistake, I was just skimming around the web and found what I thought was an errata but turned out to be an online site with that guy's personal house rules :embarrass Nonetheless, as a DM I am allowing Weapon Finesse in replacement of Far Shot for a prerequisite... it just makes more sense, classwise and RP wise.