Best Race for Wizard Build? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Race for Wizard Build? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nubbert
05-27-05, 03:29 PM I haven't seen too many interesting races used in builds on the boards recently... I was just wondering if anyone had good race ideas for wizard builds? Im talking general wizard/sorc builds; ie, have versatility, high caster level, etc (fill the arcane spellcaster role in a party).
I remember back in the day, Sylph Sorcerer was commom. Sylph, I believe is +6 LA and has 7th level sorc casting abilities (and a good skillset to boot). Essentially, a level 6 char that has lvl 7 casting. through LA buyoff rules, you could gain a few more levels (ie, buy off 3 levels of Sylph, so you are ECL 3, with base 7th level casting).
First of all, im not sure if the sylph works anymore... but more importantly, what are poweful races to be combined with casters (include class progression that you think would go well)?
nubbert
05-27-05, 03:55 PM Any template ideas are appreciated as well.
PhaedrusXY
05-27-05, 04:01 PM Really, the best ones are the ones with a very low or no LA, and either a boost to mental attributes or really good abilities like immunities. The best races in my opinion are the grey/sun elf (MM or PGtF), the Necropolitan (LM), or the dwarf (especially for a gish). ;) Humans are also a good choice, especially for a build with alot of feat prereqs.

There are very, very few more "exotic" races that I'd even consider for a caster, due to the heavy loss of caster levels most of them require. The Sylph is one example of one that is worth it.
TheScalesOfFate
05-27-05, 06:06 PM Where can you find the Sylph? Is it in the core MM, or another supplement?
Woodstock_01
05-27-05, 06:27 PM I also like the Whisper Gnome (RoS), boosts Dex and Con.
Kimbal
05-27-05, 06:30 PM Best one is arcane gnome from dungeon magazine
+2 Int +2 con -2 str -2 wis and UMD as a class skill
pentagonal_penguin
05-28-05, 03:51 AM Don't forget the Strongheart Halfling (FRCS). As standard halfling, but loses the +1 to all saves, and gains a bonus feat (as human).
R-man
05-28-05, 04:17 AM Personally I like Gnomes and Dwarves due to the +2 con modifier.

Mages always suck for HP's and it is the simpleist way to kick up their hps.

I especially like multiclassing my arcane casters with one level of another class with a prestige class in mind for the future.

Dwarf wizard with one level of Fighter. Gets you a mage who can use a dwarven waraxe one handed and be proficient with it.
If your DM plays the monsters as intelligent but not omnisciecent then doing something/ anything to make your mage not look so obviously like a mage will go a long way towards keeping him alive, especially when the party gets surprised.

Of course sometimes I take it a little too far, like my present Gold dwarf fighter/warmage who has more Hp's then the party Paladin... or anybody else in the party. And once I gain another level I will be wearing Mithral Full plate as well!
Effling
05-28-05, 05:06 AM Or you could always be a Black Ethergaunt, from Fiend Folio. :)

16 HD of Aberration, +4 LA, cast spells as a 17th lvl Wizard, +20 to Int, immunity to 6th lvl or lower spells... The list goes on. Granted, you can transport yourself from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane for only up to 1 round per HD each hour, but I'm sure that that can be circumvented somehow.
Blade2718
05-28-05, 08:25 AM Currently, I would say the best non-LA race you can play is the Sun Elf from FRCS or the Grey Elf from the DMG. Not simply because of beneficial racial modifiers, but because you have access to the best Wizard substitution level in the game: the Nonspecialized Specialist. You give up your ability to specialize in a school to be able to cast one additional spell of your highest level, as well as additional spells known per level. Which is basically all the benefits of specializing in a school.
Eidolon Faer
05-28-05, 10:38 AM That depends on how you're generating your stats. You'll still be in tough shape if that Elf constitution penalty sticks you at 1 hitpoint per level.

For illusion users, Gnome is an absolutely impossible-to-beat +0 LA race. That +1 to save DC's on illusion spells they cast stacks with Spell Focus, and their stat mods are excellent. Gnomes make excellent arcane spellcasters in general, since their small size and stat mods are all to the good.

Admittedly, that Elf substitution level from Races of the Wild is pretty exceptional. And the Elf weapon proficiencies are also quite nice for a Wizard.

The Human bonus feat has already been mentioned, but I cannot overstate how useful it can be. And the Favored Class: Any makes them excellent for Gish builds of any flavor.

Aasimars make good Sorcerers and Tieflings make good Wizards. Favored-class wise, the Sorcerer-Paladin Aasimar is a slightly better fit than the Wizard-Rogue Tiefling but both have potential. LA buyoff here is helpful, as are the cheesy Forgotten Realms "Lesser" versions of these races.

There are things to be said for Halfling Wizards. Most notably the Luckstealer PrC from RotW. And again, that small size thing.

Frankly, the only two PHB races I would NOT recommend for a Wizard are Half Orc and Half Elf. Half Elf because they suck at everything, and Half Orc because of the Int penalty.

Oh yeah...forgot.

For munchkiny goodness, it's hard to beat an Illumian spellcaster.
PhaedrusXY
05-28-05, 11:49 AM Where can you find the Sylph? Is it in the core MM, or another supplement?Monster Manual 2. It was given an offical Level Adjustment in the 3.5 update to that book.
Khazra Reborn
05-28-05, 12:08 PM gnome white dragon spawn rocks my world. If you buy off the 1La then your getting +4con,+2cha,-2 str, small size & a caster level. Its worth it for most sorcerers without la buy off.
nubbert
05-28-05, 01:34 PM Why is Illumian so good? Where does it come from?
Hmm...All of this is very useful.
I remember seeing someone make a character that was the mini beholder (LA 0) so they could qualify for Beholder Mage (prc) at level 1. Beholder mage gets 9 levels of arcance spells in 10 levels (Like Ur Priest). They then picked up Ur Priest and MTed into a 9/9 Arcane/Divine caster at lvl 15 or something.
Borin
05-28-05, 01:56 PM Why is Illumian so good? Where does it come from?
Hmm...All of this is very useful.
I remember seeing someone make a character that was the mini beholder (LA 0) so they could qualify for Beholder Mage (prc) at level 1. Beholder mage gets 9 levels of arcance spells in 10 levels (Like Ur Priest). They then picked up Ur Priest and MTed into a 9/9 Arcane/Divine caster at lvl 15 or something.

What mini beholder are you talking about? Beholder Mage is great, but I haven't found a way to get it as a PC, unless you count Polymorph Any Object.
nubbert
05-28-05, 05:07 PM The one that can be a familiar. Its LA 0.
Borin
05-28-05, 08:57 PM The one that can be a familiar. Its LA 0.

What book is that one in? :D
Arterion
05-28-05, 09:15 PM Deep Imaskari from the Underdark book are decent. Star Elves from Unapproachable East would make good sorcerers, because of their CHA bonus.
nubbert
05-28-05, 10:15 PM Hmmm... I thought it was in the PHB, a beholder type familiar. Maybe its from somewhere else. Not sure, dont have any books with me.
Endarire
05-28-05, 10:23 PM It depends what you value most, how available magic items are, your starting cash, and ECL. I like humans for their feat and skill point, sun and grey elves for their INT bonus and doubly so for the Wizard1 substitution level, and Dwarves for their CON bonus, spell(-like ability) resistance, and carrying ability.

-EE
LordOfHavoc
05-28-05, 10:26 PM Nubbert : Might u be referring to the Beholderkin? While not an actual beholder, it is like a single flying eyestalk. I think it might be from Players Guide to Feruen but I dont have my books with me right now.
nubbert
05-28-05, 11:58 PM Speaking of beholders... if you are that mini beholder thats essentially an eyestalk (but still categorized as a beholder, therefore eligible of Beholder mage) you might as well go with VoP... Its not like you could use a cloak or rings or a wand =0
Borin
05-29-05, 10:21 AM The updated Beholder Mage in Lords of Madness has as a prerequisite: True Beholder (no beholderkin), so I think you can only enter that one as a 'standard' beholder.
nubbert
06-04-05, 01:48 AM What is Illumian? What book is it from?
Also, what makes tiefling so good for wizards? I'm under the impression it only has +2 Int?
Any good templates?
Gothic Rose
06-04-05, 03:11 AM I -really- like the Deep Imaskari. They have a built in pearl of power level 1. And +2 Int, -2 Dex, LA 0.

Sun/Grey Elves are also very good, and you NEVER go wrong with Human. That's kinda the point of humans, really.
Ogre Mage
06-04-05, 03:43 AM I also like the Whisper Gnome (RoS), boosts Dex and Con.I concur, +2 DEX and +2 CON is a big bonus for a wizard, while -2 STR and -2 CHA hurts not at all. A clever wizard can put the race's stealth abilities to use as well.
nubbert
06-04-05, 01:30 PM Anything that gives a phat bonus to int? Like +4/+6? There are loads of good str races/templates with +2 LA that give solid str bonuses.
Also, anyone know what an Illumian is?
Gothic Rose
06-04-05, 01:33 PM Illumians are a race from Races of Destiny.

In general, you want to shy away from LA 2 and higher with spellcasters - your spellcasting progression is VERY important, and sacrificing more than 1 of it to your race just isnt very worthwhile.
Joachim
06-04-05, 01:37 PM I -really- like the Deep Imaskari. They have a built in pearl of power level 1. And +2 Int, -2 Dex, LA 0.

Sun/Grey Elves are also very good, and you NEVER go wrong with Human. That's kinda the point of humans, really.

And you are eligible to take the feat "Otherworldly", making you an outsider and giving 60 foot darkvision. Alter Self at 3rd level looks very nice when you can pick up perfect flight 50 (air mephit) for 10 minutes per caster level.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nubbert 05-27-05, 03:29 PM	I haven't seen too many interesting races used in builds on the boards recently... I was just wondering if anyone had good race ideas for wizard builds? Im talking general wizard/sorc builds; ie, have versatility, high caster level, etc (fill the arcane spellcaster role in a party). I remember back in the day, Sylph Sorcerer was commom. Sylph, I believe is +6 LA and has 7th level sorc casting abilities (and a good skillset to boot). Essentially, a level 6 char that has lvl 7 casting. through LA buyoff rules, you could gain a few more levels (ie, buy off 3 levels of Sylph, so you are ECL 3, with base 7th level casting). First of all, im not sure if the sylph works anymore... but more importantly, what are poweful races to be combined with casters (include class progression that you think would go well)?
nubbert 05-27-05, 03:55 PM	Any template ideas are appreciated as well.
PhaedrusXY 05-27-05, 04:01 PM	Really, the best ones are the ones with a very low or no LA, and either a boost to mental attributes or really good abilities like immunities. The best races in my opinion are the grey/sun elf (MM or PGtF), the Necropolitan (LM), or the dwarf (especially for a gish). ;) Humans are also a good choice, especially for a build with alot of feat prereqs. There are very, very few more "exotic" races that I'd even consider for a caster, due to the heavy loss of caster levels most of them require. The Sylph is one example of one that is worth it.
TheScalesOfFate 05-27-05, 06:06 PM	Where can you find the Sylph? Is it in the core MM, or another supplement?
Woodstock_01 05-27-05, 06:27 PM	I also like the Whisper Gnome (RoS), boosts Dex and Con.
Kimbal 05-27-05, 06:30 PM	Best one is arcane gnome from dungeon magazine +2 Int +2 con -2 str -2 wis and UMD as a class skill
pentagonal_penguin 05-28-05, 03:51 AM	Don't forget the Strongheart Halfling (FRCS). As standard halfling, but loses the +1 to all saves, and gains a bonus feat (as human).
R-man 05-28-05, 04:17 AM	Personally I like Gnomes and Dwarves due to the +2 con modifier. Mages always suck for HP's and it is the simpleist way to kick up their hps. I especially like multiclassing my arcane casters with one level of another class with a prestige class in mind for the future. Dwarf wizard with one level of Fighter. Gets you a mage who can use a dwarven waraxe one handed and be proficient with it. If your DM plays the monsters as intelligent but not omnisciecent then doing something/ anything to make your mage not look so obviously like a mage will go a long way towards keeping him alive, especially when the party gets surprised. Of course sometimes I take it a little too far, like my present Gold dwarf fighter/warmage who has more Hp's then the party Paladin... or anybody else in the party. And once I gain another level I will be wearing Mithral Full plate as well!
Effling 05-28-05, 05:06 AM	Or you could always be a Black Ethergaunt, from Fiend Folio. :) 16 HD of Aberration, +4 LA, cast spells as a 17th lvl Wizard, +20 to Int, immunity to 6th lvl or lower spells... The list goes on. Granted, you can transport yourself from the Ethereal Plane to the Material Plane for only up to 1 round per HD each hour, but I'm sure that that can be circumvented somehow.
Blade2718 05-28-05, 08:25 AM	Currently, I would say the best non-LA race you can play is the Sun Elf from FRCS or the Grey Elf from the DMG. Not simply because of beneficial racial modifiers, but because you have access to the best Wizard substitution level in the game: the Nonspecialized Specialist. You give up your ability to specialize in a school to be able to cast one additional spell of your highest level, as well as additional spells known per level. Which is basically all the benefits of specializing in a school.
Eidolon Faer 05-28-05, 10:38 AM	That depends on how you're generating your stats. You'll still be in tough shape if that Elf constitution penalty sticks you at 1 hitpoint per level. For illusion users, Gnome is an absolutely impossible-to-beat +0 LA race. That +1 to save DC's on illusion spells they cast stacks with Spell Focus, and their stat mods are excellent. Gnomes make excellent arcane spellcasters in general, since their small size and stat mods are all to the good. Admittedly, that Elf substitution level from Races of the Wild is pretty exceptional. And the Elf weapon proficiencies are also quite nice for a Wizard. The Human bonus feat has already been mentioned, but I cannot overstate how useful it can be. And the Favored Class: Any makes them excellent for Gish builds of any flavor. Aasimars make good Sorcerers and Tieflings make good Wizards. Favored-class wise, the Sorcerer-Paladin Aasimar is a slightly better fit than the Wizard-Rogue Tiefling but both have potential. LA buyoff here is helpful, as are the cheesy Forgotten Realms "Lesser" versions of these races. There are things to be said for Halfling Wizards. Most notably the Luckstealer PrC from RotW. And again, that small size thing. Frankly, the only two PHB races I would NOT recommend for a Wizard are Half Orc and Half Elf. Half Elf because they suck at everything, and Half Orc because of the Int penalty. Oh yeah...forgot. For munchkiny goodness, it's hard to beat an Illumian spellcaster.
PhaedrusXY 05-28-05, 11:49 AM	Where can you find the Sylph? Is it in the core MM, or another supplement?Monster Manual 2. It was given an offical Level Adjustment in the 3.5 update to that book.
Khazra Reborn 05-28-05, 12:08 PM	gnome white dragon spawn rocks my world. If you buy off the 1La then your getting +4con,+2cha,-2 str, small size & a caster level. Its worth it for most sorcerers without la buy off.
nubbert 05-28-05, 01:34 PM	Why is Illumian so good? Where does it come from? Hmm...All of this is very useful. I remember seeing someone make a character that was the mini beholder (LA 0) so they could qualify for Beholder Mage (prc) at level 1. Beholder mage gets 9 levels of arcance spells in 10 levels (Like Ur Priest). They then picked up Ur Priest and MTed into a 9/9 Arcane/Divine caster at lvl 15 or something.
Borin 05-28-05, 01:56 PM	Why is Illumian so good? Where does it come from? Hmm...All of this is very useful. I remember seeing someone make a character that was the mini beholder (LA 0) so they could qualify for Beholder Mage (prc) at level 1. Beholder mage gets 9 levels of arcance spells in 10 levels (Like Ur Priest). They then picked up Ur Priest and MTed into a 9/9 Arcane/Divine caster at lvl 15 or something. What mini beholder are you talking about? Beholder Mage is great, but I haven't found a way to get it as a PC, unless you count Polymorph Any Object.
nubbert 05-28-05, 05:07 PM	The one that can be a familiar. Its LA 0.
Borin 05-28-05, 08:57 PM	The one that can be a familiar. Its LA 0. What book is that one in? :D
Arterion 05-28-05, 09:15 PM	Deep Imaskari from the Underdark book are decent. Star Elves from Unapproachable East would make good sorcerers, because of their CHA bonus.
nubbert 05-28-05, 10:15 PM	Hmmm... I thought it was in the PHB, a beholder type familiar. Maybe its from somewhere else. Not sure, dont have any books with me.
Endarire 05-28-05, 10:23 PM	It depends what you value most, how available magic items are, your starting cash, and ECL. I like humans for their feat and skill point, sun and grey elves for their INT bonus and doubly so for the Wizard1 substitution level, and Dwarves for their CON bonus, spell(-like ability) resistance, and carrying ability. -EE
LordOfHavoc 05-28-05, 10:26 PM	Nubbert : Might u be referring to the Beholderkin? While not an actual beholder, it is like a single flying eyestalk. I think it might be from Players Guide to Feruen but I dont have my books with me right now.
nubbert 05-28-05, 11:58 PM	Speaking of beholders... if you are that mini beholder thats essentially an eyestalk (but still categorized as a beholder, therefore eligible of Beholder mage) you might as well go with VoP... Its not like you could use a cloak or rings or a wand =0
Borin 05-29-05, 10:21 AM	The updated Beholder Mage in Lords of Madness has as a prerequisite: True Beholder (no beholderkin), so I think you can only enter that one as a 'standard' beholder.
nubbert 06-04-05, 01:48 AM	What is Illumian? What book is it from? Also, what makes tiefling so good for wizards? I'm under the impression it only has +2 Int? Any good templates?
Gothic Rose 06-04-05, 03:11 AM	I -really- like the Deep Imaskari. They have a built in pearl of power level 1. And +2 Int, -2 Dex, LA 0. Sun/Grey Elves are also very good, and you NEVER go wrong with Human. That's kinda the point of humans, really.
Ogre Mage 06-04-05, 03:43 AM	I also like the Whisper Gnome (RoS), boosts Dex and Con.I concur, +2 DEX and +2 CON is a big bonus for a wizard, while -2 STR and -2 CHA hurts not at all. A clever wizard can put the race's stealth abilities to use as well.
nubbert 06-04-05, 01:30 PM	Anything that gives a phat bonus to int? Like +4/+6? There are loads of good str races/templates with +2 LA that give solid str bonuses. Also, anyone know what an Illumian is?
Gothic Rose 06-04-05, 01:33 PM	Illumians are a race from Races of Destiny. In general, you want to shy away from LA 2 and higher with spellcasters - your spellcasting progression is VERY important, and sacrificing more than 1 of it to your race just isnt very worthwhile.
Joachim 06-04-05, 01:37 PM	I -really- like the Deep Imaskari. They have a built in pearl of power level 1. And +2 Int, -2 Dex, LA 0. Sun/Grey Elves are also very good, and you NEVER go wrong with Human. That's kinda the point of humans, really. And you are eligible to take the feat "Otherworldly", making you an outsider and giving 60 foot darkvision. Alter Self at 3rd level looks very nice when you can pick up perfect flight 50 (air mephit) for 10 minutes per caster level.