Best restricted effigy on a budget... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best restricted effigy on a budget... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
EmoryM
08-10-05, 05:32 AM My artificer is level 12 and has around 23,000gp to play with. I've got the feat which reduces construction cost by 75%, so I'm actually looking for an effigy which costs around 30,500gp.

The HD limits are thusly as follows:
Tiny creature (500gp) of 14 HD (14 * 2000 = 28,000) or less.
Small creature (1,000gp) of 14 HD or less.
Medium creature (2,000gp) of 14 HD or less.
Large creature (5,000gp) of 12 HD (12 * 2000 = 24,000) or less.
Huge creature (10,000gp) of 10 HD (10 * 2000 = 20,000) or less.

I'm avoiding templates, mainly because my artificer is already fairly optimized.

I was thinking about a ten headed pyro-hydra... Would Su attacks partially based on the Effigy creature's Con -modifier- count as Su attacks for which a target's saving throw is based on the Effigy's Con? Especially considering that although it doesn't have a Con score, the modifier for a nonability is +0...? :confused:

If you infuse an effigy hydra with, say, weapon augmentation - wounding and giant bane, would that affect all of the heads or just one?

Oh, I was also thinking a Behir... because A) It looks cool and B) fits into my price range. :D

Or should I keep it simple with a clay golem?

Legal sources are the Monster Manuals, Complete Arcane and the Eberron Campaign Setting. Thanks.
lostone
08-11-05, 11:22 AM I was thinking about a ten headed pyro-hydra... Would Su attacks partially based on the Effigy creature's Con -modifier- count as Su attacks for which a target's saving throw is based on the Effigy's Con? Especially considering that although it doesn't have a Con score, the modifier for a nonability is +0...? :confused: IIRC the Effigy Template specifically states any SLA and SU abilities are lost, and any extraordinary abilities based on the Con modifier are also lost.
Pinky's brain
08-11-05, 11:56 AM Remember, before applying a template you can still advance the creature ... even without extra templates that still leaves you the ability to increase HD for the creature and reassign it's feats (except for bonus feats).

You could also just treat the LA for templates as extra HD BTW

Id take something remotely humanoid which can use a weapon ... also note that barding can cost a ton for larger creatures if it is made of special materials (you need something with 0 ACP).

Natural weapons remain natural weapons, you need the natural weapon augmentation infusions from RoE to improve them. Yes, they only affect one natural weapon at a time.

The redcap has excellent ability scores at 14 HD, especially for a small creature, nice and portable and with a decent touch AC. The Girallon has nice ability scores and an extra set of arms (ie. can use a weapon, if you give him a weapon proficiency feat, and 2 claw attacks as secondary).

It's nice to have something which can fly, but magic items can solve that (another advantage of a humanoid shape, they can wear all magic items).
Lilt
08-11-05, 12:07 PM I don't think that effigies are usually proficient with weapons other than natural weapons.

I also don't think you can give an effigy creature feats, read the effigy creature entry. I suppose you could argue that a weapon proficiency improves it's attacks so it wouldn't be removed, but it's another argument to add a feat.
Pinky's brain
08-11-05, 12:17 PM "An effigy retains all natural attacks and weapon proficiencies of the base creature."

You don't give the effigy creature feats, you give a creature feats ... and then apply the effigy template, that is how templates work. If you advance the creature in HD before applying the effigy template they get feats, and you assign the feats. That is RAW.

Now I admit, saying you can reassign the feats a creature starts with is a bit more iffy from a RAW point of view ... but the bit on feats on page 7 of the MM kinda suggests it can be done (especially since it says you cannot change bonus feats).
Lilt
08-11-05, 12:37 PM Hmm. I suppose that's fair. If you can make effigys with weapon proficiencies then I suppose it's really the creator's perogative as to how they program the creature.

Giants are noteable for being proficient with all martial weapons, so maybe consider one of them if your GM is iffy about the Girallon (magical beast). Roughly humanoid abberations and (Monsterous) Humanoids are also options as they're at-least proficient with simple weapons.
Pinky's brain
08-11-05, 12:45 PM The redcap is proficient with a scythe, and has powerfull build (which fortunately is listed as a special attack and not a special quality :)).

There is also the simple war troll of course.
Lilt
08-11-05, 01:38 PM Redcaps are fey though, and fey isn't a valid type to apply the effigy template to.
Pinky's brain
08-11-05, 01:39 PM Damn, forgot about that ... last time I looked at the redcap was with a type changing template :/

Legendary ape is another nice one, if you change the feats.

A cave troll is nice too, with it's pounce ability.
Lilt
08-11-05, 02:18 PM Yes, War troll is nice, but you'd lose the special attack because the save DC is con based.

One ubermunchy thing to do would be to make a swarm effigy, although I suppose it'd be quite vulnerable to area-effect attacks.

Maybe a Leechwalker (MM2) effigy? Their attacks wound for 3hp/round (cumulative), they have improved grab and a grapple attack for 2d4 con damage, and they're roughly humanoid abberations by the picture so would have proficiency with all simple weapons Oops, they're vermin. Still compatible but no weapons and sadly, their other stats are rather poor.
Pinky's brain
08-11-05, 02:46 PM 12 HD cave troll, with some rewritten feats would be the best bet I guess.

BTW if you have a 15 HD effigy you can always polymorph him into a slaughterstone eviscerator once combat begins.
scorchmagus
08-11-05, 04:40 PM You're actually pricing yourself too high. The cost in the original post is the Base Price. The cost to build is only 1K per HD + the body.

Your effigy is also limited to a number of HD equal to or less than your caster level (looks like 12).

So maybe the question should be, Best two or three effigies on a budget? :D
Pinky's brain
08-11-05, 04:52 PM Artificers have a +2 cl boost for item creation :)
scorchmagus
08-11-05, 05:04 PM Artificers have a +2 cl boost for item creation :)

Ah. No one in my group has anything for Eberron, so news to me. :)

My last effigy was a Half-Dragon Griffon (advanced to 9HD). My Gnome Wizard/Effigy Master used it as a mount/mobile casting platform.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EmoryM 08-10-05, 05:32 AM	My artificer is level 12 and has around 23,000gp to play with. I've got the feat which reduces construction cost by 75%, so I'm actually looking for an effigy which costs around 30,500gp. The HD limits are thusly as follows: Tiny creature (500gp) of 14 HD (14 * 2000 = 28,000) or less. Small creature (1,000gp) of 14 HD or less. Medium creature (2,000gp) of 14 HD or less. Large creature (5,000gp) of 12 HD (12 * 2000 = 24,000) or less. Huge creature (10,000gp) of 10 HD (10 * 2000 = 20,000) or less. I'm avoiding templates, mainly because my artificer is already fairly optimized. I was thinking about a ten headed pyro-hydra... Would Su attacks partially based on the Effigy creature's Con -modifier- count as Su attacks for which a target's saving throw is based on the Effigy's Con? Especially considering that although it doesn't have a Con score, the modifier for a nonability is +0...? :confused: If you infuse an effigy hydra with, say, weapon augmentation - wounding and giant bane, would that affect all of the heads or just one? Oh, I was also thinking a Behir... because A) It looks cool and B) fits into my price range. :D Or should I keep it simple with a clay golem? Legal sources are the Monster Manuals, Complete Arcane and the Eberron Campaign Setting. Thanks.
lostone 08-11-05, 11:22 AM	I was thinking about a ten headed pyro-hydra... Would Su attacks partially based on the Effigy creature's Con -modifier- count as Su attacks for which a target's saving throw is based on the Effigy's Con? Especially considering that although it doesn't have a Con score, the modifier for a nonability is +0...? :confused: IIRC the Effigy Template specifically states any SLA and SU abilities are lost, and any extraordinary abilities based on the Con modifier are also lost.
Pinky's brain 08-11-05, 11:56 AM	Remember, before applying a template you can still advance the creature ... even without extra templates that still leaves you the ability to increase HD for the creature and reassign it's feats (except for bonus feats). You could also just treat the LA for templates as extra HD BTW Id take something remotely humanoid which can use a weapon ... also note that barding can cost a ton for larger creatures if it is made of special materials (you need something with 0 ACP). Natural weapons remain natural weapons, you need the natural weapon augmentation infusions from RoE to improve them. Yes, they only affect one natural weapon at a time. The redcap has excellent ability scores at 14 HD, especially for a small creature, nice and portable and with a decent touch AC. The Girallon has nice ability scores and an extra set of arms (ie. can use a weapon, if you give him a weapon proficiency feat, and 2 claw attacks as secondary). It's nice to have something which can fly, but magic items can solve that (another advantage of a humanoid shape, they can wear all magic items).
Lilt 08-11-05, 12:07 PM	I don't think that effigies are usually proficient with weapons other than natural weapons. I also don't think you can give an effigy creature feats, read the effigy creature entry. I suppose you could argue that a weapon proficiency improves it's attacks so it wouldn't be removed, but it's another argument to add a feat.
Pinky's brain 08-11-05, 12:17 PM	"An effigy retains all natural attacks and weapon proficiencies of the base creature." You don't give the effigy creature feats, you give a creature feats ... and then apply the effigy template, that is how templates work. If you advance the creature in HD before applying the effigy template they get feats, and you assign the feats. That is RAW. Now I admit, saying you can reassign the feats a creature starts with is a bit more iffy from a RAW point of view ... but the bit on feats on page 7 of the MM kinda suggests it can be done (especially since it says you cannot change bonus feats).
Lilt 08-11-05, 12:37 PM	Hmm. I suppose that's fair. If you can make effigys with weapon proficiencies then I suppose it's really the creator's perogative as to how they program the creature. Giants are noteable for being proficient with all martial weapons, so maybe consider one of them if your GM is iffy about the Girallon (magical beast). Roughly humanoid abberations and (Monsterous) Humanoids are also options as they're at-least proficient with simple weapons.
Pinky's brain 08-11-05, 12:45 PM	The redcap is proficient with a scythe, and has powerfull build (which fortunately is listed as a special attack and not a special quality :)). There is also the simple war troll of course.
Lilt 08-11-05, 01:38 PM	Redcaps are fey though, and fey isn't a valid type to apply the effigy template to.
Pinky's brain 08-11-05, 01:39 PM	Damn, forgot about that ... last time I looked at the redcap was with a type changing template :/ Legendary ape is another nice one, if you change the feats. A cave troll is nice too, with it's pounce ability.
Lilt 08-11-05, 02:18 PM	Yes, War troll is nice, but you'd lose the special attack because the save DC is con based. One ubermunchy thing to do would be to make a swarm effigy, although I suppose it'd be quite vulnerable to area-effect attacks. Maybe a Leechwalker (MM2) effigy? Their attacks wound for 3hp/round (cumulative), they have improved grab and a grapple attack for 2d4 con damage, and they're roughly humanoid abberations by the picture so would have proficiency with all simple weapons Oops, they're vermin. Still compatible but no weapons and sadly, their other stats are rather poor.
Pinky's brain 08-11-05, 02:46 PM	12 HD cave troll, with some rewritten feats would be the best bet I guess. BTW if you have a 15 HD effigy you can always polymorph him into a slaughterstone eviscerator once combat begins.
scorchmagus 08-11-05, 04:40 PM	You're actually pricing yourself too high. The cost in the original post is the Base Price. The cost to build is only 1K per HD + the body. Your effigy is also limited to a number of HD equal to or less than your caster level (looks like 12). So maybe the question should be, Best two or three effigies on a budget? :D
Pinky's brain 08-11-05, 04:52 PM	Artificers have a +2 cl boost for item creation :)
scorchmagus 08-11-05, 05:04 PM	Artificers have a +2 cl boost for item creation :) Ah. No one in my group has anything for Eberron, so news to me. :) My last effigy was a Half-Dragon Griffon (advanced to 9HD). My Gnome Wizard/Effigy Master used it as a mount/mobile casting platform.