Best Rogue/Assassin/Shadow Dancer build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Rogue/Assassin/Shadow Dancer build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
wonderboy06
10-18-05, 11:18 PM Ok, I dont really know how I should do this, Its killing me cause I dont know how to best set up the character...really the only things I want from the Assassin is Poison Use and Death Attack...but the Death Attack DC is dependant on Assassin lvl. As for the Shadow Dancer PrC I really only want the Hide in Plane Sight ability...the Shadow Jump ability is cool and might be useful but not a really selling factor.
Chaos116882
10-18-05, 11:32 PM Self improvement is masturbation. Self destruction...now thats the ticket.

what movie is that from? I could swear it was from the bus on fightclub but i only can hear the self improvement part
wonderboy06
10-18-05, 11:39 PM Hahahaha....ding ding ding....you got it.
nihility
10-18-05, 11:41 PM If you want a high DC for your Death Attack, you're pretty much stuck with classes that advance it. I only know of three off the top of my head: Assassin, Black Flame Zealot, and Telflammer Shadowlord. None of those grant Hide in Plain Sight at low levels, sadly, so I can't really help you there. Shadowlord + Assassin makes for some painful death attacks and does gain HiPS eventually, though sticking with Assassin doesn't seem to be a thrilling prospect for you.

Would you be interested in other one-shot kill options?
wonderboy06
10-18-05, 11:47 PM I sure would...I haddent thought of other one shot kill options...what ever you have to offer is greatly appreciated
gavalon
10-18-05, 11:56 PM Self improvement is masturbation. Self destruction...now thats the ticket.

what movie is that from? I could swear it was from the bus on fightclub but i only can hear the self improvement part

its actually

"Self-improvement is masturbation, self-destruction, now that might be the answer"
nihility
10-19-05, 12:21 AM Off the top of my head, I can think of a few options. One is to suddenly do a very large amount of melee damage, and I think a variation on the Lancer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5436939) might do the job nicely. Note that the standard build has a lot of levels of scout, which is on par with the rogue in terms of skills. Rather than wait three rounds, you stalk the target, then jump on them and impale them for huge damage. Unlike the death attack, you get another shot if you fail. Hide in Plain Sight is less of an issue thanks to the build's mobility, and it has Camouflage, which the Assassin/Shadowdancer lacks.

Another I can think of at the moment is sniping. You can check here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=183604) for some builds and ideas. The basic notion is to combine an assured crit with lots of damage boosters. Again, it's more of a "huge sudden damage" theme than a save-or-die, though they'll probably have to save vs. massive damage. The ability to snipe and stay hidden again reduces the need for HiPS.

You can also make them helpless, then do a coup de grace to finish them. This is one build that does it (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=510951), and I know that there are more lurking about. I think this eschews hiding because it interferes with posing and looking cool.

Moving away from the one-shot kill to a slightly slower death, you might consider a Thri-Kreen Soul Eater. Draining 5 levels with a full attack every round is a pretty neat thing to do at 7th level or so.
wonderboy06
10-19-05, 12:59 AM Thanks for the ideas...I dont really care for the Lancer. But the Snipeing idea what intresting to say the least...to bad the link didnt work. As for the Thri-Kreen Soul Eater I am fervently trying to look it up but havent found anything yet.

Any other suggestions are welcome
Vaelan
10-19-05, 04:03 AM Rogue 5 / Assassin 9 / Teflammar Shadowlord 6 is a possibility. It gets both Hide in Plain Sight and Poison Use.

Rogue 5 / Assassin 2 / Shadowdancer 1 / Assassin 3-7 / Teflammar Shadowlord 6 / Assassin 8 could work too. It grants Poison Use and Hide in Plain Sight at lower levels than the simpler build above while maintaining Death Attack progression. However, it requires six prerequisite feats to pull off, meaning you have to be a Human or Strongheart Halfling and still spend all of your feats on prerequisites until level 12, and ends up getting the Hide in Plain Sight ability twice. You would split the Assassin levels up with the level of Shadowdancer and the Teflammar Shadowlord levels. Overall, it is messy but gains your desired abilities early.
nihility
10-19-05, 09:24 AM Link fixed.

A good resource on the Soul Eater is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7414358). For the Thri-Kreen version, just take full BAB classes as needed to get the mix of skills and abilities that you favor, then dip into the Eater for a level or three. Or you can stick it out; full BAB and all good saves are fine things to base a build around.
Saxis
10-19-05, 12:17 PM My suggestion would be to go either Strongheart Halfling or Whisper Gnome. Go 6 Rogue/8 Assassin/6 Tefflemar Shadowlord. You get a base Death Attack DC of 24 + Int Mod, Hide in Plain Sight, Poison Use, Shadow Jump 120ft, 7d6 Sneak Attack, Full Assassin Spellcasting, Full Teffl. Shadowlord Spellcasting, Darkvision that can pierce ALL magical darkness. If you go Whisper Gnome, you will get +8 Hide, Silence 1/day, Small and still retain 30ft movement. You are also nearly unkillable vs. melee attacks with discorporation, and you can make a full attack after ShadowJump/Dimension Door. Strongheart Halfling gives you the extra feat, but less sneaking bonuses.

If you don't want to be Evil, you can also go with something like 10 Rogue/4 Shadowdancer/6 Teffl Shadowlord. You would still have death attack at a much lower DC and lose alot of spellcasting, but if you go Whisper Gnome, you are a sneaking machine. I chose this build as I couln't come up with a good reason to be Evil in a Good party.
PhaedrusXY
10-19-05, 12:45 PM I think this eschews hiding because it interferes with posing and looking cool. :rofl: Glad to see someone linking one of my builds. Yes, that character is too cool to hide. He wouldn't be able to deliver cheesy monologues before killing you if he was sneaking around.

Since you get Hide in Plain Sight from Assassin8, I'd drop the Shadow Dancer levels entirely, unless you expect the game won't last long enough to get there. You might check the Shadowlord Assassin build in my sig. Make sure to check out the link within the first post of that thread, as it leads to a version without the Rokugan Ninja which would probably make a better PC.
nihility
10-19-05, 01:12 PM PhaedrusXY's Shadowlord Assassin is a strong way to go if you're keen on the Death Attack angle (just wanted to lend my support). I personally prefer the Freezing the Lifeblood + coup de grace route, since the DC on FtL improves with character level and the DC on coup de grace is only limited by your damage. Plus, it invests fewer resources to attain its goal, which means it has more options if the enemy is immune to its one-shot kill trick. On the other hand, Shadow Pounce is like rich, delicious gravy that makes anything go down easier.
Xeraph
10-19-05, 01:34 PM You could go the Archivist way. Click my sig for the "Black Flame Strife Leader".

It has both Divine Casting and a marvolous base Death Attack DC.

(Nihiliy, yeah, nothing like doing the "shaolin finger jab" :D )
wonderboy06
10-19-05, 08:27 PM Hey, thanks for the help guys and/or girls...my only question is where do I get infor on the Teflemmar Shadlowlord?
nihility
10-19-05, 08:44 PM Unapproachable East.
Trance Kuja
10-19-05, 10:43 PM The Rogue 6/ Assassin 8/ Shadowlord 6 is good but I'd prefer to replace 3 levels of Rogue with 3 levels of Swashbuckler. Since your int is your primary stat for your spellcasting the int to mellee damage will be sweet. Go two-weapon fighting with a pair of +5 keen kukris of greater wounding for more attacks and mass numbers of crits with con damage thrown on for good measure.

I don't know if this would work, but would the shadowwalk ability of a shade trigger your shadow pounce ability. If so you can use the shadowlords shadow jump ability as a standard action to get one free full attack action then use your move action to shadowwalk and get another free full attack action. And would the shadowwalk ability let you qualify for the shadowlord class. If so then using LA buyoff you can fit in a total of 16 lvls since shade is a +5 template. So maybe try....

3 Swashbuckler / 3 Rogue / Assassin 5 / Shadowlord 5

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wonderboy06 10-18-05, 11:18 PM	Ok, I dont really know how I should do this, Its killing me cause I dont know how to best set up the character...really the only things I want from the Assassin is Poison Use and Death Attack...but the Death Attack DC is dependant on Assassin lvl. As for the Shadow Dancer PrC I really only want the Hide in Plane Sight ability...the Shadow Jump ability is cool and might be useful but not a really selling factor.
Chaos116882 10-18-05, 11:32 PM	Self improvement is masturbation. Self destruction...now thats the ticket. what movie is that from? I could swear it was from the bus on fightclub but i only can hear the self improvement part
wonderboy06 10-18-05, 11:39 PM	Hahahaha....ding ding ding....you got it.
nihility 10-18-05, 11:41 PM	If you want a high DC for your Death Attack, you're pretty much stuck with classes that advance it. I only know of three off the top of my head: Assassin, Black Flame Zealot, and Telflammer Shadowlord. None of those grant Hide in Plain Sight at low levels, sadly, so I can't really help you there. Shadowlord + Assassin makes for some painful death attacks and does gain HiPS eventually, though sticking with Assassin doesn't seem to be a thrilling prospect for you. Would you be interested in other one-shot kill options?
wonderboy06 10-18-05, 11:47 PM	I sure would...I haddent thought of other one shot kill options...what ever you have to offer is greatly appreciated
gavalon 10-18-05, 11:56 PM	Self improvement is masturbation. Self destruction...now thats the ticket. what movie is that from? I could swear it was from the bus on fightclub but i only can hear the self improvement part its actually "Self-improvement is masturbation, self-destruction, now that might be the answer"
nihility 10-19-05, 12:21 AM	Off the top of my head, I can think of a few options. One is to suddenly do a very large amount of melee damage, and I think a variation on the Lancer (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=5436939) might do the job nicely. Note that the standard build has a lot of levels of scout, which is on par with the rogue in terms of skills. Rather than wait three rounds, you stalk the target, then jump on them and impale them for huge damage. Unlike the death attack, you get another shot if you fail. Hide in Plain Sight is less of an issue thanks to the build's mobility, and it has Camouflage, which the Assassin/Shadowdancer lacks. Another I can think of at the moment is sniping. You can check here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=183604) for some builds and ideas. The basic notion is to combine an assured crit with lots of damage boosters. Again, it's more of a "huge sudden damage" theme than a save-or-die, though they'll probably have to save vs. massive damage. The ability to snipe and stay hidden again reduces the need for HiPS. You can also make them helpless, then do a coup de grace to finish them. This is one build that does it (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=510951), and I know that there are more lurking about. I think this eschews hiding because it interferes with posing and looking cool. Moving away from the one-shot kill to a slightly slower death, you might consider a Thri-Kreen Soul Eater. Draining 5 levels with a full attack every round is a pretty neat thing to do at 7th level or so.
wonderboy06 10-19-05, 12:59 AM	Thanks for the ideas...I dont really care for the Lancer. But the Snipeing idea what intresting to say the least...to bad the link didnt work. As for the Thri-Kreen Soul Eater I am fervently trying to look it up but havent found anything yet. Any other suggestions are welcome
Vaelan 10-19-05, 04:03 AM	Rogue 5 / Assassin 9 / Teflammar Shadowlord 6 is a possibility. It gets both Hide in Plain Sight and Poison Use. Rogue 5 / Assassin 2 / Shadowdancer 1 / Assassin 3-7 / Teflammar Shadowlord 6 / Assassin 8 could work too. It grants Poison Use and Hide in Plain Sight at lower levels than the simpler build above while maintaining Death Attack progression. However, it requires six prerequisite feats to pull off, meaning you have to be a Human or Strongheart Halfling and still spend all of your feats on prerequisites until level 12, and ends up getting the Hide in Plain Sight ability twice. You would split the Assassin levels up with the level of Shadowdancer and the Teflammar Shadowlord levels. Overall, it is messy but gains your desired abilities early.
nihility 10-19-05, 09:24 AM	Link fixed. A good resource on the Soul Eater is here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=7414358). For the Thri-Kreen version, just take full BAB classes as needed to get the mix of skills and abilities that you favor, then dip into the Eater for a level or three. Or you can stick it out; full BAB and all good saves are fine things to base a build around.
Saxis 10-19-05, 12:17 PM	My suggestion would be to go either Strongheart Halfling or Whisper Gnome. Go 6 Rogue/8 Assassin/6 Tefflemar Shadowlord. You get a base Death Attack DC of 24 + Int Mod, Hide in Plain Sight, Poison Use, Shadow Jump 120ft, 7d6 Sneak Attack, Full Assassin Spellcasting, Full Teffl. Shadowlord Spellcasting, Darkvision that can pierce ALL magical darkness. If you go Whisper Gnome, you will get +8 Hide, Silence 1/day, Small and still retain 30ft movement. You are also nearly unkillable vs. melee attacks with discorporation, and you can make a full attack after ShadowJump/Dimension Door. Strongheart Halfling gives you the extra feat, but less sneaking bonuses. If you don't want to be Evil, you can also go with something like 10 Rogue/4 Shadowdancer/6 Teffl Shadowlord. You would still have death attack at a much lower DC and lose alot of spellcasting, but if you go Whisper Gnome, you are a sneaking machine. I chose this build as I couln't come up with a good reason to be Evil in a Good party.
PhaedrusXY 10-19-05, 12:45 PM	I think this eschews hiding because it interferes with posing and looking cool. :rofl: Glad to see someone linking one of my builds. Yes, that character is too cool to hide. He wouldn't be able to deliver cheesy monologues before killing you if he was sneaking around. Since you get Hide in Plain Sight from Assassin8, I'd drop the Shadow Dancer levels entirely, unless you expect the game won't last long enough to get there. You might check the Shadowlord Assassin build in my sig. Make sure to check out the link within the first post of that thread, as it leads to a version without the Rokugan Ninja which would probably make a better PC.
nihility 10-19-05, 01:12 PM	PhaedrusXY's Shadowlord Assassin is a strong way to go if you're keen on the Death Attack angle (just wanted to lend my support). I personally prefer the Freezing the Lifeblood + coup de grace route, since the DC on FtL improves with character level and the DC on coup de grace is only limited by your damage. Plus, it invests fewer resources to attain its goal, which means it has more options if the enemy is immune to its one-shot kill trick. On the other hand, Shadow Pounce is like rich, delicious gravy that makes anything go down easier.
Xeraph 10-19-05, 01:34 PM	You could go the Archivist way. Click my sig for the "Black Flame Strife Leader". It has both Divine Casting and a marvolous base Death Attack DC. (Nihiliy, yeah, nothing like doing the "shaolin finger jab" :D )
wonderboy06 10-19-05, 08:27 PM	Hey, thanks for the help guys and/or girls...my only question is where do I get infor on the Teflemmar Shadlowlord?
nihility 10-19-05, 08:44 PM	Unapproachable East.
Trance Kuja 10-19-05, 10:43 PM	The Rogue 6/ Assassin 8/ Shadowlord 6 is good but I'd prefer to replace 3 levels of Rogue with 3 levels of Swashbuckler. Since your int is your primary stat for your spellcasting the int to mellee damage will be sweet. Go two-weapon fighting with a pair of +5 keen kukris of greater wounding for more attacks and mass numbers of crits with con damage thrown on for good measure. I don't know if this would work, but would the shadowwalk ability of a shade trigger your shadow pounce ability. If so you can use the shadowlords shadow jump ability as a standard action to get one free full attack action then use your move action to shadowwalk and get another free full attack action. And would the shadowwalk ability let you qualify for the shadowlord class. If so then using LA buyoff you can fit in a total of 16 lvls since shade is a +5 template. So maybe try.... 3 Swashbuckler / 3 Rogue / Assassin 5 / Shadowlord 5