Best Sneak Attack? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Sneak Attack? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Salrantol
04-03-05, 10:06 PM This is, first off, a numerical exercise to determine maximum SA damage (i.e. +11d6 for a rogue 20). After that, I tried to make the character the best I could with what I needed to do. I did seek to avoid such foolishness as taking Slayer of Domiel along with ronin, assassin, and arcane trickster, due to alignment restrictions (plus, that would put me in tight feat situations).

Human from Halruaa
Level ClassLevel BAB SA
1 Rogue 1 +0 +1d6 Magical Training (wizard, mage hand, prestidigitation, detect magic), Persuasive, trapfinding
2 Rogue 2 +1 +1d6 evasion
3 Rogue 3 +2 +2d6 Improved Initiative, trap sense +1
4 Rog3/Spellthief 1 +2 +3d6 steal spell (0 or 1), trapfinding II
5 Rog3/Spt1/Psychic Rogue 1 +2 +4d6 trapfinding III, Offensive Prescience
6 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Assassin 1 +2 +5d6 Point Blank Shot, death attack, poison use
7 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Assassin 2 +3 +5d6 uncanny dodge, +1 save vs. poison
8 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Assassin 3 +4 +6d6
9 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Assassin 4 +5 +6d6 Persuasive, +2 save vs. poison
10 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Assassin 5 +5 +7d6 improved uncanny dodge
11 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/Arcane Trickster 1 +5 +7d6 ranged legerdemain 1/day
12 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/Arcane Trickster 2 +6 +8d6 Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword)
13 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/Arcane Trickster 3 +6 +8d6 impromptu sneak attack 1/day
14 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/Arcane Trickster 4 +7 +9d6
15 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/ATr4/Guild Thief 1 +7 +10d6 Far Shot, doublespeak
16 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/ATr4/GTh1/Shadow Thief of Amn 1 +7 +11d6 doublespeak
17 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/ATr4/GTh1/Shadow Thief of Amn 2 +8 +11d6 Weapon Focus (dagger), uncanny dodge
18 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/ATr4/GTh1/STA2/Nightsong Enforcer 1 +9 +12d6 Open Feat
19 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/ATr4/GTh1/STA2/NEn1/Ronin 1 +10 +13d6 infamy
20 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/ATr4/GTh1/STA2/NEn1/Ron1/Invisible Blade 1 +11 +14d6 unfettered defense

Alternately, the Open Feat at 18 may be Weapon Focus (dagger) and the 2nd level of Shadow Thief of Amn may be dropped in favor of some class with +1d6 SA at 1st level (ideally with +1BAB also). Unfortunately, the only other classes I know of with that feature are Magelord and Psychic Assassin, neither of which I qualify for, lacking 3rd level manifesting and 5th level spells (as well as Weapon Focus (ray), Spell Mastery, and Signature Spell). If anyone knows of others, please inform me. Thanks!

So that's +14d6 sneak attack (with a dagger)! With +11BAB for 3 iterative attacks (if Open Feat is Two-Weapon Fighting, that'll be 4 attacks), which is tough with 7 classes that give +0BAB at 1st level. Impromptu sneak attack 1/day is also a helpful tool.
samoosa691
04-03-05, 10:54 PM if allowed you could try incorporating the ruoken ninja which gives +1 bab and +1d6 sneak attack damage at first level, (only draw back is it has 4 skill points instead of 8), i'm sure you could get more than what you've got there with the ruoken ninja in place as well.., hope that helps.
I managed to get +8d6 sneak attack damage dice in a non rogue primary character using 3.0 rules. I went with fighter4/ruoken ninja 3/oobi3/peerless archer 10. I know it's probably not what your looking for, but just a thought on it any way.
snb1131
04-04-05, 12:07 AM Depends on what sources are allowed.

If you take three levels of the generic classes in UA, you can choose (at each level) the three special abilities which grant, in succession, +2d6, +3d6 and +4d6, respectively, thereby giving you a total of +9d6 with 17 levels left.

If the Rokugan book is allowed, take the Bayushi Deceiver feat the maximum allowable number of times - which is five - and add another +1d6 for each time taken for a total of +5d6.

You can also find a way to polymorph into a Kelvezu (one of the MM books) which grants somewhere between +4d6 and +7d6 as well (I can't recall the exact amount at the moment).

The first-level Assassin spell Critical Strike (CV) grants +1d6 for one round (in addition to x2 crit range and +4 to confirm).

The Assassin PrC will be good to help increase BAB.

Keeping in mind that the generic classes may take either one of the special abilities or a regular feat, I'm thinking thus:

Human
1 Expert1 (ability - Sneak Attack - grants +2d6); Way of the Scorpion (pre-req to Bayushi Deceiver; human); Improved Initiative (level) = +2d6 (BAB +0)
2 Warrior1 (ability - Persuasive) = +2d6 (BAB +1)
3 Warrior2 (ability - Bayushi Deceiver = grants +1d6); Bayushi Deceiver (level - +1d6) = +4d6 (BAB +2)
4 Expert2 (ability - Bayushi Deceiver - +1d6) = +5d6 (BAB +3)
5 Warrior3 = +5d6 (BAB +4)
6 Assassin1 (+1d6 as class level); Bayushi Deceiver (level - +1d6) = +7d6 (BAB +5)
7 Shadow Thief of Amn1 (+1d6 as class level) = +8d6 (BAB +5)
8 Warrior4 (ability - Improved Sneak Attack - grants +3d6) = +11d6 (BAB +6)
9 Guild Thief1 (+1d6 as class level); Bayushi Deceiver (level - +1d6) = +13d6 (BAB +6)
10 Nightsong Enforcer1 (+1d6 as class level) = +14d6 (BAB +7)
11 Assassin2 = +14d6 (BAB +8)
12 Assassin3 (+1d6 as class level); Weapon Finesse (level) = +15d6 (BAB +9)
13 Assassin4 = +15d6 (BAB +10)
14 Assassin5 (+1d6 as class level) = +16d6 (BAB +11)
15 Spellcaster1 (ability - Greater Sneak Attack - +4d6); Two-Weapon Fighting (level) = +20d6 (BAB +11)
16 Assassin6 = +20d6 (BAB +12)
17 Assassin7 (+1d6 as class level) = +21d6 (BAB +13)
18 Assassin8; Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (level) = +21d6 (BAB +14)
19 Assassin9 (+1d6 as class level) = +22d6 (BAB +15)
20 Assassin10 = +22d6 (BAB +16)

Note: Bayushi Deceiver has a pre-req of BAB +2 and may be taken a maximum of 5 times; also, for the sneak attack chain to work, Move Silently must be maxed out at all times (hence, it must be chosen as a class skill at both Expert and Warrior levels); the Persuasive feat is a pre-req to Shadow Thief of Amn.

We have achieved +16 BAB; with ITWF, this gives 6 attacks per round at +22d6 each.

Whatever weapon(s) this character decides to use must definitely have the Deadly Precision (MiniHB and others) ability: at the cost of a +2 enhancement, it grants the weapon an extra +2d6 sneak attack damage. Also, casting the Critical Strike spell gives an extra +1d6 for all attacks for one round.

With spells and enhancements, we have a total of +25d6 at six attacks per round.

Again, though, since I don't have my MM with me I can't tell you the exact amount from a Kelvezu, but provided it grants you a high-enough bonus, you can switch out some levels in order to gain access to the polymorph spell, thus netting you much more damage.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Salrantol 04-03-05, 10:06 PM	This is, first off, a numerical exercise to determine maximum SA damage (i.e. +11d6 for a rogue 20). After that, I tried to make the character the best I could with what I needed to do. I did seek to avoid such foolishness as taking Slayer of Domiel along with ronin, assassin, and arcane trickster, due to alignment restrictions (plus, that would put me in tight feat situations). Human from Halruaa Level ClassLevel BAB SA 1 Rogue 1 +0 +1d6 Magical Training (wizard, mage hand, prestidigitation, detect magic), Persuasive, trapfinding 2 Rogue 2 +1 +1d6 evasion 3 Rogue 3 +2 +2d6 Improved Initiative, trap sense +1 4 Rog3/Spellthief 1 +2 +3d6 steal spell (0 or 1), trapfinding II 5 Rog3/Spt1/Psychic Rogue 1 +2 +4d6 trapfinding III, Offensive Prescience 6 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Assassin 1 +2 +5d6 Point Blank Shot, death attack, poison use 7 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Assassin 2 +3 +5d6 uncanny dodge, +1 save vs. poison 8 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Assassin 3 +4 +6d6 9 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Assassin 4 +5 +6d6 Persuasive, +2 save vs. poison 10 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Assassin 5 +5 +7d6 improved uncanny dodge 11 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/Arcane Trickster 1 +5 +7d6 ranged legerdemain 1/day 12 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/Arcane Trickster 2 +6 +8d6 Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) 13 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/Arcane Trickster 3 +6 +8d6 impromptu sneak attack 1/day 14 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/Arcane Trickster 4 +7 +9d6 15 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/ATr4/Guild Thief 1 +7 +10d6 Far Shot, doublespeak 16 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/ATr4/GTh1/Shadow Thief of Amn 1 +7 +11d6 doublespeak 17 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/ATr4/GTh1/Shadow Thief of Amn 2 +8 +11d6 Weapon Focus (dagger), uncanny dodge 18 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/ATr4/GTh1/STA2/Nightsong Enforcer 1 +9 +12d6 Open Feat 19 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/ATr4/GTh1/STA2/NEn1/Ronin 1 +10 +13d6 infamy 20 Rog3/Spt1/PRg1/Asn5/ATr4/GTh1/STA2/NEn1/Ron1/Invisible Blade 1 +11 +14d6 unfettered defense Alternately, the Open Feat at 18 may be Weapon Focus (dagger) and the 2nd level of Shadow Thief of Amn may be dropped in favor of some class with +1d6 SA at 1st level (ideally with +1BAB also). Unfortunately, the only other classes I know of with that feature are Magelord and Psychic Assassin, neither of which I qualify for, lacking 3rd level manifesting and 5th level spells (as well as Weapon Focus (ray), Spell Mastery, and Signature Spell). If anyone knows of others, please inform me. Thanks! So that's +14d6 sneak attack (with a dagger)! With +11BAB for 3 iterative attacks (if Open Feat is Two-Weapon Fighting, that'll be 4 attacks), which is tough with 7 classes that give +0BAB at 1st level. Impromptu sneak attack 1/day is also a helpful tool.
samoosa691 04-03-05, 10:54 PM	if allowed you could try incorporating the ruoken ninja which gives +1 bab and +1d6 sneak attack damage at first level, (only draw back is it has 4 skill points instead of 8), i'm sure you could get more than what you've got there with the ruoken ninja in place as well.., hope that helps. I managed to get +8d6 sneak attack damage dice in a non rogue primary character using 3.0 rules. I went with fighter4/ruoken ninja 3/oobi3/peerless archer 10. I know it's probably not what your looking for, but just a thought on it any way.
snb1131 04-04-05, 12:07 AM	Depends on what sources are allowed. If you take three levels of the generic classes in UA, you can choose (at each level) the three special abilities which grant, in succession, +2d6, +3d6 and +4d6, respectively, thereby giving you a total of +9d6 with 17 levels left. If the Rokugan book is allowed, take the Bayushi Deceiver feat the maximum allowable number of times - which is five - and add another +1d6 for each time taken for a total of +5d6. You can also find a way to polymorph into a Kelvezu (one of the MM books) which grants somewhere between +4d6 and +7d6 as well (I can't recall the exact amount at the moment). The first-level Assassin spell Critical Strike (CV) grants +1d6 for one round (in addition to x2 crit range and +4 to confirm). The Assassin PrC will be good to help increase BAB. Keeping in mind that the generic classes may take either one of the special abilities or a regular feat, I'm thinking thus: Human 1 Expert1 (ability - Sneak Attack - grants +2d6); Way of the Scorpion (pre-req to Bayushi Deceiver; human); Improved Initiative (level) = +2d6 (BAB +0) 2 Warrior1 (ability - Persuasive) = +2d6 (BAB +1) 3 Warrior2 (ability - Bayushi Deceiver = grants +1d6); Bayushi Deceiver (level - +1d6) = +4d6 (BAB +2) 4 Expert2 (ability - Bayushi Deceiver - +1d6) = +5d6 (BAB +3) 5 Warrior3 = +5d6 (BAB +4) 6 Assassin1 (+1d6 as class level); Bayushi Deceiver (level - +1d6) = +7d6 (BAB +5) 7 Shadow Thief of Amn1 (+1d6 as class level) = +8d6 (BAB +5) 8 Warrior4 (ability - Improved Sneak Attack - grants +3d6) = +11d6 (BAB +6) 9 Guild Thief1 (+1d6 as class level); Bayushi Deceiver (level - +1d6) = +13d6 (BAB +6) 10 Nightsong Enforcer1 (+1d6 as class level) = +14d6 (BAB +7) 11 Assassin2 = +14d6 (BAB +8) 12 Assassin3 (+1d6 as class level); Weapon Finesse (level) = +15d6 (BAB +9) 13 Assassin4 = +15d6 (BAB +10) 14 Assassin5 (+1d6 as class level) = +16d6 (BAB +11) 15 Spellcaster1 (ability - Greater Sneak Attack - +4d6); Two-Weapon Fighting (level) = +20d6 (BAB +11) 16 Assassin6 = +20d6 (BAB +12) 17 Assassin7 (+1d6 as class level) = +21d6 (BAB +13) 18 Assassin8; Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (level) = +21d6 (BAB +14) 19 Assassin9 (+1d6 as class level) = +22d6 (BAB +15) 20 Assassin10 = +22d6 (BAB +16) Note: Bayushi Deceiver has a pre-req of BAB +2 and may be taken a maximum of 5 times; also, for the sneak attack chain to work, Move Silently must be maxed out at all times (hence, it must be chosen as a class skill at both Expert and Warrior levels); the Persuasive feat is a pre-req to Shadow Thief of Amn. We have achieved +16 BAB; with ITWF, this gives 6 attacks per round at +22d6 each. Whatever weapon(s) this character decides to use must definitely have the Deadly Precision (MiniHB and others) ability: at the cost of a +2 enhancement, it grants the weapon an extra +2d6 sneak attack damage. Also, casting the Critical Strike spell gives an extra +1d6 for all attacks for one round. With spells and enhancements, we have a total of +25d6 at six attacks per round. Again, though, since I don't have my MM with me I can't tell you the exact amount from a Kelvezu, but provided it grants you a high-enough bonus, you can switch out some levels in order to gain access to the polymorph spell, thus netting you much more damage.