Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CrimsonRyoko 02-16-04, 12:24 PM	Hey guys, im currently working on, but far from finished with a Sorcerer build that has a complete 20 level caster progression. And i was wondering if anyone else had ever come up with one? Usually i read sorc posts and they have 17-18th level casting, but i cant remember one with full 20 levels in it. (if there is ones out there, just post the link to the thread or a breif rundown and that will work, but sifting thru the 90000 sorc posts is giving me a headache :)) The builds im mostly interested are ones built 100% around spellcasting, no melee involved, i couldnt care less about it or ranged, if i never make with the physical hits ill be a happy camper :) Huge emphasis on blaster spells of course, i would try to get the Trait Spellgifted(Evocation) as a feat for the char im thinking of, if not as an actual trait, but thats based off the DM's wishes. Anyway, if yall dont have ones made or whatever, ill post again once i get my build finished and then ya can critique it, but until them ill check back every so often to see if anyone has any enlightening ideas on how to make with the killing :) EDIT: remembered that its spellgifted, and spelltouched ARE feats, DOH!
MikeN 02-16-04, 01:31 PM	Check around the boards. Here's mine: Strongheart Halfling Sorcerer 6/Mage of the Arcane Order4/Dragonslayer1/Spellsword1/Divine Oracle6/Archmage2 You have to use either human or Strongheart Halfling or else the feats don't work, but it gives you a final BAB of 11/6/1, 10% ignored spell failure, lots and lots of blaster spells, and utility spells up to level 6. Also you get some divination domain spells, prescient sense, and some other nice stuff. Though slightly more martial than some builds, it is not a good fighter so it shouldn't try to be.
Funny Slaughter 02-16-04, 01:56 PM	Sorcerer 6/Mage of the Arcane Order4 why exactly sorcerer6? you qualify with sorc5 since you need 2 feats as well as 8 ranks which you gain at 5th level. gs Funny
ksbsnowowl 02-16-04, 02:17 PM	I've always been a big fan of Socerer 7/ Divine Oracle 4/ Sacred Exorcist 9. You get 17 extra spells known (or 18 with 3.5 and spell swapping) from the Divination and Exorcism domains. You also have hit dice of 7d4 + 4d6 + 9d8, giving you an average of 22 more hit points over a straight sorcerer. You also get some rather nifty abilities: Evasion, Divination Enhancement, Uncanny Dodge, Turn Undead along with several extra turning feats (moderately useful - better if you want to get divine feats), bonuses to resist possession, bonuses to skills and caster level checks (such as for SR) against undead or outsiders, Concecrated Presence, the ability to Dispel Evil as a spell-like ability, and the ability to force possessing spirits out of people (similar to a turning check). You also end with a BAB of +11/+6/+1.
cowdragon 02-16-04, 02:20 PM	my latest goes like this. Sorc10/dragon slayer1/spellsword1/sorc8 This gives my character full caster progression but a little armor. I still only use sickles and staves in melee though. I like up close and personal fighting with arcane strikes and stuff. The Cowdragon :mage:
Raging Halfling 02-16-04, 02:22 PM	Where can I find Divine Oracle?
ksbsnowowl 02-16-04, 02:32 PM	Divine Oracle and Sacred Exorcist are both found in Defenders of the Faith.
Snow Savant 02-16-04, 03:22 PM	CrimsonRyoko said: The builds im mostly interested are ones built 100% around spellcasting, no melee involved, i couldnt care less about it or ranged, if i never make with the physical hits ill be a happy camper. Huge emphasis on blaster spells of course Okay ... no Spellsword, Dragonslayer, or EK, I promise. Sorceror6 / MageArcaneOrder4 / Arachnomancer1 / DivineOracle4 / ArchMage5 This build is for Bad Boy Sorcerors. :devil: Ya gotta be Evil, due to the Arachnomancer level. While this may not look like a "Blaster" Sorceror, it is. The reason being is that it by virtue of the diverse array of bonus spells from DO (9 extra spells) and Arachno (15 extra spells), you can now concentrate on loading up on your Blaster spells while still being flexible and party friendly. Especially with Spell Pool II access as a backup. Sorc-6 was taken instead of Sorc-5, for BAB reasons. As a blaster, some ray spells are just mandatory - Disintegrate and Scorching Ray for example. If you choose for a Good-Aligned Sorc, you should combo DO, MotAO, and SacredExorcist into a build. Everybody's builds listed above look pretty darn good as well. XO, Snow :cloud9:
CrimsonRyoko 02-16-04, 03:34 PM	Very cool ideas all. Whats Arachnomancer from? im guessing underdark or something, dounds drowish, but ive yet to hear about it! Any nice way to fit mindbender into a build, just one level for telepathy?
MikeN 02-17-04, 02:27 AM	Sorc6 primarily for BAB. This is paramount because otherwise you can't get into Dragonslayer by 10, which won't give you armor proficiency, so you can't get into spellsword for the 10% reduction to arcane failure and the build kind of falls apart. Also the ranged spells. Also, Dodge @ level 1. Since you need 3 other feats to qualify for MotAO as a sorcerer, you won't be able to get Dodge (prereq for Dragonslayer) when it helps you most -- low levels. Minor reason, but can be helpful when you're low-level and fragile.
catharz 02-17-04, 02:42 AM	Sor 6/Shadow adept 10/Shadowcrafter 4.
pawsplay 02-17-04, 02:48 AM	Sorc-6 was taken instead of Sorc-5, for BAB reasons. It's also a good breakpoint for Saves, which is important when every class you take has one good Will save. Level 6 is a happy level.
Yekoj 02-17-04, 03:06 AM	I like a human Sorcerer 14 / Archmage 1... whatever 1st Improved Initiative 1st Improved Counterspell 3rd Reactive Counterspell 6th Heighten Spell 9th Spell Power 12th Spell Power 15th Skill Focus - Spellcraft Starting at 6th you can really shut down enemy spellcasters via counterspelling (just heighten a cantrip of the appropriate school to the needed level and viola!) At 15th Master of Counterspelling allows you to turn enemy splls back on their casters. If you are willing to delay your counterspelling to 14th level (especially if you are starting the character at high level) you can change this into: Sorcerer 6 / Zhentarim Skymage 5 / Arcane Devotee 3 / Archmage 1 Zhentarim Skymage costs you 3 feats - Mounted Combat, Iron Will, and Combat Casting and ties up several of your 2nd and 3rd level spells but grants you Spell Focus & Skill Focus (Spellcraft) to help qualify for Archmage and Enlarge Spell to qualify for Arcane Devotee. Arcane Devotee in turn grants you Improved Counterspell. You can a cool mount (based on your Cha), the ability to increase the area effect of your spells with Enlarge spell Cha/day free and various other nifty benefits. This isn't a good build for low to mid-levels but it has some nice late-game synergy and a lot of style IMO. Everybody wants to be a Bane-worshipping dragon-riding Zhentarim Archmage that tosses around over-sized Evard's Tentacles & Solid Fogs and Counterspells enemy spells back at them. Yekoj
cowdragon 02-17-04, 01:17 PM	Sor 6/Shadow adept 10/Shadowcrafter 4. I like that build alot. That gives you 100% Shades at level 20 does it not? 80% real Shadow Evocations. What an awesome Illusionist build! Kudos. The Cowdragon :mage:
P33KAJ3W 02-17-04, 01:35 PM	Originally posted by cowdragon my latest goes like this. Sorc10/dragon slayer1/spellsword1/sorc8 This gives my character full caster progression but a little armor. I still only use sickles and staves in melee though. I like up close and personal fighting with arcane strikes and stuff. The Cowdragon :mage: I sugjest something very similar... Aasimar 0/Battle Sorc10/dragon slayer1/spellsword1/Battle Sorc8
antiopus 02-29-04, 01:59 AM	What is this Aasimar 0 business, and how do I get some?
Matt Neuman 02-29-04, 02:21 AM	Sorcerer 6/Harper Mage 5/Virtuoso 4/Archmage 5
jensun 02-29-04, 04:06 AM	OK, a few more suggestions: Sor6/MotAO7/Incantatrix7 Sor6/MotAO4/ then Incantatrix/Sacred Exorcist/Ele Savant 10 (or 9 if savant to avoid the caster level loss) Sor6/MotAO2/Spellsword1/Dragonslayer1/Exorcist/Inc 10 Sor6/MotAO2/Elemental Savant9/Archmage3 Sor6/MotAO9/Archmage5 Pretty much any combination using Savant/MotAO/Divine Oracle/Incantatrx/Sacred Exorcist will work well for the sorceror. 1 level dips in spellsword and dragonlayer are both well worth it from a min/max PoV but are likely to need GM approval more so than a more "normal" build. You may have noticed a tendency towards MotAO in the above builds. It is, quite simply, one of the best PrC's out there for you. It allows you to concentrate on those immediate need combat/disruption spells while still allowing you the wizards flexibility out of combat. Of course it may take longer to do but that should be OK if you pick up a few scrolls and wands to complement your abilities. Spellpool debt is effectively meaningless, you will have more than enough slots on any day off to pay any debt multiple times over by the time you take the class. How such guilds use debts as a form of currency is one of the great mysteries of TaB (along with why they made Bloodmage/Pale Master/Wayferer etc). Finally, the often overlooked benefit of the PrC is that it allows you to make effective use of item creation feats without needing to buy lots of scrolls or hire random NPC spellcasters.
Ranthanas 02-29-04, 07:13 AM	Funny, +1 BAB, +1 Caster Level and +1 to all saves is a level well spent. Hence Sorc 6 (I often propose Wizard 6 rather than 5). I also consider MoAO as extremely dubious for sorcerors. If your DM allows it, go for it. Divine Oracle and Sacred Exorcist are both well worth taking. Otherwise, I'm amazed no one has mentioned the classic Sorceror 6/Incantatrix 10/Archmage 4 (although you need Educated for this). Immune to death effects, Improved Metamagic, 4 Archmage abilities. Epic ready. Yekoj, you can not heighten a cantrip to counterspell- Heighten Spell takes a sorceror a Full Round, meaning you can't use it for counterspells. Catharz, I like! (Oh, Evocations aren't IME worth it but YMMV)
Mindless 02-29-04, 08:01 AM	I think all those Sorc/DotF builds are best if reserved for theoretical exercises, for Complete Divine could very possibly close off the design holes you are exploiting, and having to beg your DM to let you change your now useless class choices is suboptimal IMO.
antiopus 02-29-04, 08:03 AM	Originally posted by Ranthanas Yekoj, you can not heighten a cantrip to counterspell- Heighten Spell takes a sorceror a Full Round, meaning you can't use it for counterspells. That would normally be the case, but Reactive Counterspell allows you to counterspell as a free action if you forfeit your next turn's action. Which is why the sorcerer counterspeller with Reactive Counterspell is really good. Although, to be honest, I've only seen counterspelling used a couple of times in any game, mostly by me while playing a character built along the same lines as Yekoj's sorceror. Unfortunately, my DM caught on pretty quick and so we quickly wound up facing opposing wizards of equal level who would just unload spells of their highest available level until our fighter reached them and pounded them to paste. -anti
Neonsamurai 02-29-04, 09:21 AM	Originally posted by Mindless I think all those Sorc/DotF builds are best if reserved for theoretical exercises, for Complete Divine could very possibly close off the design holes you are exploiting, and having to beg your DM to let you change your now useless class choices is suboptimal IMO. At least sacred exorcist was specifically designed to give access to arcane casters as well: Occasionally, a wizard qualifies to fill this role in a church that is tolerant toward arcane magic, but members of other classes rarely become sacred exorcists.(from DotF pg. 68)
Vecna 02-29-04, 10:03 AM	Originally posted by Snow Savant While this may not look like a "Blaster" Sorceror, it is. The reason being is that it by virtue of the diverse array of bonus spells from DO (9 extra spells) and Arachno (15 extra spells), you can now concentrate on loading up on your Blaster spells while still being flexible and party friendly. Especially with Spell Pool II access as a backup. Arachnomancer Spider Magic doesn't increases spells known, but only add spells to the list you can select spells from.
Tytalus 02-29-04, 12:58 PM	Originally posted by antiopus What is this Aasimar 0 business, and how do I get some? It's an illegal attempt to exploit a progression for Aasimar, found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a). If you choose a racial progression, you have to finish it before taking any class levels. Clearly described in Savage Species, pg. 152 and elsewhere.
SuperThread 02-29-04, 01:10 PM	Human Sorcerer 6/Incantatrix 10/Archmage 4 I know, it's a bit cliche as far as arcane min/max goes, but this is probably one of the best blaster Sorcerers there is. Feat setup might look something like this: Human: Education 1st: Empower 3rd: Maximize 6th: Iron Will Inc 1: Twin 9th: Skill Focus: Spellcraft Inc 5: Delay 12th: Spell Focus (XXX) 15th: Spell Focus (XXXX) Inc 10: Improve Initiative 18th: Quicken (Planning Ahead) EDIT: Sorry, I see that someone else has already posted this idea.
Cappo 02-29-04, 02:31 PM	Originally posted by Vecna Arachnomancer Spider Magic doesn't increases spells known, but only add spells to the list you can select spells from. Thanks for pointing this out! Haven't noticed it before. Another build I like is Sorcerer 6, Seninel of Bharrai 4 and Master of the Yuirwood 10 - nice nature themed flavor, Epic ready and Divine Grace.
SuperThread 02-29-04, 02:36 PM	Originally posted by Cappo Another build I like is Sorcerer 6, Seninel of Bharrai 4 and Master of the Yuirwood 10 - nice nature themed flavor, Epic ready and Divine Grace. Just out of curiousity, where is the Master of the Yuriwood from (and, in general terms, what does it do)? Thanks. :)
Cappo 02-29-04, 02:47 PM	Originally posted by SuperThread Just out of curiousity, where is the Master of the Yuriwood from (and, in general terms, what does it do)? Thanks. :) It's from Unapproachable East, a PrC originally designed for Rangers, but pretty interesting for a Sorcerer, too. Some nice outdoor Specials and the best one - Divine Grace. It has been first recommended by Funny, I added the Sentinel for better access to the required skills.
PhaedrusXY 02-29-04, 02:47 PM	Originally posted by SuperThread Just out of curiousity, where is the Master of the Yuriwood from (and, in general terms, what does it do)? Thanks. :) MotY is from the Unapproachable East supplement to FR. It has d8 HD, cleric BAB, some cool nature-themed abilities, Uncanny Dodge, and full caster progression. It also gets Cha bonus to saves at level 9. I think it is a great Sorc PrC, but it is kind of nasty to qualify for without a level of ranger or two. Seninel of Bharrai is an excellent way to do just that, though.
Mindless 02-29-04, 02:51 PM	Neonsamurai: Good point. It's still risky to take those classes for a long-term Sorc though. Worst case, the gods could decide that SE and/or DO should not have arcane progression. That would be the easiest way to balance it. Arcane casters could still take them for the abilities...
Mommy was an Orc 02-29-04, 03:48 PM	There's also the really large flavor text problems. "all available means" should stop sorcerers in their tracks. Most builds seem to assume "as few spells as possible necessary to qualify for this class" Moment of Prescience, as an example, is a method of foretelling the future available to Sorcerers. Good thing 8th level spells that Sorcerers want are in short supply... Or Sacred Exorcist: Humorless loners who make uptight Paladins look like Bob Hope. That alone should kill most of the builds right then and there. Originally posted by Mindless I think all those Sorc/DotF builds are best if reserved for theoretical exercises, for Complete Divine could very possibly close off the design holes you are exploiting, and having to beg your DM to let you change your now useless class choices is suboptimal IMO.
nihility 02-29-04, 09:39 PM	Originally posted by Tytalus It's an illegal attempt to exploit a progression for Aasimar, found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a). If you choose a racial progression, you have to finish it before taking any class levels. Clearly described in Savage Species, pg. 152 and elsewhere. As far as Sean K Reynolds is concerned, Aasimar 0 is completely legal. Check out this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=183280) for the CO board's discussion of the matter, and this thread (http://pub17.ezboard.com/fseankreynoldsboardsfrm7.showMessage?top icID=420.topic) on SKR's board where the author himself lays to rest any questions.
PhoenixInferno 02-29-04, 10:09 PM	I believe you need to have more levels of Shadowcrafter to get a 100% Shades. 7 for +20% to conjuration, 8 for +20% to evocations. Levels 9 and 10 are sort of dead for the Shadowcrafter. That said, I like Sorc 8/Arcane Devote 5/Sacred Exorcist 5/Archmage 2, which requires the Education feat to qualify for Arcane Devotee and Sacred Exorcist. Having free enlarges never hurt a blaster-type sorceror, or even a field-control sorceror, its nice to have a bigger blast radius or more Black Tentacles. I think SE loses real utility after level 5 which is when you get a holy aura. Archmage 2 becuase you can never really go wrong with Archmage levels...
Dthamilaye 03-01-04, 08:26 AM	I think 1 level of Archmage should be a must for all casters, to get Arcane Fire. That one ability is so good that the feat and other requirements are worth it. Well, I have to admit that many builds in this thread are quite wonderful. I just have seen the Arcane fire in use in our games and it is unbeatable in some instancies. Ranged touch attack is the only bad side, kind of. You can miss, but you can crit also. It is very long range, it is NOT stopped by energy protections, it does not give save vs, it works on many monsters with magic resistance (3.5), and as it is supernatural, the caster can use it even if held, silenced or whatever, without fear of AoO. Of course, the best would be 5 levels of Archmage, so that Arcane fire would be most effective. Well, at least thats how I read the description of Arcane fire from DMG 3.5.
Rundor The Mighty 03-01-04, 08:09 PM	Is mage of the arcane order in one of the splatbooks or is it one of those dragon magazine prcs? I don't remember ever seeing that prc, hmmph.
ksbsnowowl 03-01-04, 08:13 PM	Mage of the Arcane Order is from Tome and Blood.
Tytalus 03-02-04, 12:36 AM	Originally posted by nihility As far as Sean K Reynolds is concerned, Aasimar 0 is completely legal. Check out this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=183280) for the CO board's discussion of the matter, and this thread (http://pub17.ezboard.com/fseankreynoldsboardsfrm7.showMessage?top icID=420.topic) on SKR's board where the author himself lays to rest any questions. Thanks for the quotes! I'm glad this is only web material; CHA bonus and outsider subtype can make for some juicy cheese. I have to agree with the general consensus on the former thread that that's a loophole at best. Speaking of cheese, following the rules I'd definately spend one level for White Dragonspawn (Dragonlance CS). LA+1, but you still get a level of Sorcerer casting for it. And a number of other goodies (nat. armor +7, breathweapon every 2D4 rounds, DEX, CON +2, darkvision + low-light vision, flight, natural weapons). Mechanically very strong, if you don't mind the strong cheese flavor...
010575 03-02-04, 04:16 AM	Where is Seninel of Bharrai from?
HCCommander 03-02-04, 04:28 AM	Originally posted by Tytalus Speaking of cheese, following the rules I'd definately spend one level for White Dragonspawn (Dragonlance CS). LA+1, but you still get a level of Sorcerer casting for it. And a number of other goodies (nat. armor +7, breathweapon every 2D4 rounds, DEX, CON +2, darkvision + low-light vision, flight, natural weapons). Mechanically very strong, if you don't mind the strong cheese flavor... [/B] Speaking of cheese? What about Star Elf White Dragonspawn, mixing campaign settings? :smirk:
Tytalus 03-02-04, 05:28 AM	Originally posted by HCCommander Speaking of cheese? What about Star Elf White Dragonspawn, mixing campaign settings? :smirk: I think the Aasimar0/White Dragonspawn is the cheesier one (also mixing settings). The ousider subtype offers great potential for polymorphing abuse, for example.
Cappo 03-02-04, 06:20 AM	Originally posted by 010575 Where is Seninel of Bharrai from? it's from Book of Exalted deeds.
TexasFriedCriminal 04-26-04, 03:39 PM	Sorceror 6/ Harper Mage 4/ Dragon Slayer 1/ Arcane Devotee 1/ Divine Oracle 1/ War Wizard of Cormyr 5/ Archmage 2 you need at least 4 skill points / level and you need an extra feat at lvl 1, which means you have to be either human (int 12) or strongheart halfling (int 14). feat development: 1 education, extend spell 3 enlarge spell 6 dodge 7 Skill Focus: Knowledge (any) (Harper Mage) 8 Skill Focus: Spellcraft (Harper Mage) 9 Iron Will 10 Eschew Materials (Harper Mage) 12 Widen Spell 14 Weapon Focus (any, prolly ray spells) (War Wizard) 15 Spell Focus (any), any Metamagic Feat (War Wizard) 17 any Metamagic Feat (War Wizard) 18 Spell Focus (any) You end up with a miserable Bab, bad Fort save, miserable Ref save, obscene Will save, 20 caster levels, the abillity to use extend spell, empower spell and a doubly effective widen spell 1+CHA mod times per day each. That combined with Mastery of Shaping, Mastery of Elements and the right choice of spells should equip you to dominate almost any battlefield. You also get the Divination prestige domain, full weapon and armor proficiency, 2 metamagic feats of your choice, and some minor goodies.
ksbsnowowl 04-26-04, 03:44 PM	Although not the worst I've seen, nearly two months is some mighty strong thread necromancy:b:
Femur Toothpick 04-26-04, 05:32 PM	Originally posted by PhoenixInferno I believe you need to have more levels of Shadowcrafter to get a 100% Shades. 7 for +20% to conjuration, 8 for +20% to evocations. Levels 9 and 10 are sort of dead for the Shadowcrafter. That said, I like Sorc 8/Arcane Devote 5/Sacred Exorcist 5/Archmage 2, which requires the Education feat to qualify for Arcane Devotee and Sacred Exorcist. Having free enlarges never hurt a blaster-type sorceror, or even a field-control sorceror, its nice to have a bigger blast radius or more Black Tentacles. I think SE loses real utility after level 5 which is when you get a holy aura. Archmage 2 becuase you can never really go wrong with Archmage levels... Widen Spell increases a spell radius, Enlarge just increases range. Enlarge used to be really good for cones, but that changed in 3.5.
Otto the Bugbear 04-26-04, 08:16 PM	For a blaster mage, there's really one PrC that gives the sorcerer a HUGE boost over any other PrC. Early (1st level perhaps) the Hathran allows sorcerers to modify spells with metamagic feats without increacing the casting time of the spell. This allows the sorcerer the one thing he was missing before -- Quicken Spell. Any other MM feats you give a sorcerer will be outshone by just being able to take this one. 12th level is probably the best time to take it. The other PrCs could mostly still be taken with Hathran without it seeming too weird, but some would require a rather creative story, like MotAO or War Wizard of Cormyr. Cheers Otto :)
Previn 04-27-04, 10:06 AM	Originally posted by Otto the Bugbear For a blaster mage, there's really one PrC that gives the sorcerer a HUGE boost over any other PrC. Early (1st level perhaps) the Hathran allows sorcerers to modify spells with metamagic feats without increacing the casting time of the spell. This allows the sorcerer the one thing he was missing before -- Quicken Spell. Any other MM feats you give a sorcerer will be outshone by just being able to take this one. 12th level is probably the best time to take it. The other PrCs could mostly still be taken with Hathran without it seeming too weird, but some would require a rather creative story, like MotAO or War Wizard of Cormyr. Cheers Otto :) But this ability only works when you are in the borders of Rashemen. Outside of those lands, it does nothing until 3rd level where you get the ability 1x day.
mazaudi 04-27-04, 11:17 AM	Originally posted by cowdragon Sor 6/Shadow adept 10/Shadowcrafter 4. I like that build alot. That gives you 100% Shades at level 20 does it not? 80% real Shadow Evocations. What an awesome Illusionist build! Kudos. The Cowdragon :mage: Where is the shadowcrafter?
cowdragon 04-27-04, 03:28 PM	in the Underdark book for Forgotten Realms. But I was incorrect when I posted that. At level 4 it will only give you 10% realism to shadow conjuration/evocation. Sorry. The Ccowdragon :mage:
happymoocow 05-09-05, 07:39 PM	What if I am a Lawfull Evil Kobold. Where do I fit in?
Tytalus 05-09-05, 08:49 PM	Although not the worst I've seen, nearly two months is some mighty strong thread necromancy:b: And the thread has been resurrected again! After a good year! Why-o-why? Most of the info here is outdated. Please let it die now.
happymoocow 05-10-05, 12:12 AM	The link to the char optimization library should get updated then. :rolleyes: I just commented because it's all I could find and none of the builds help my kobold sorcerer. Kobold sorcerer is like so classic and it makes me so sad that none of the builds are lawfull evil compatable.
nihility 11-30-05, 09:40 PM	:bump:
Draka 04-07-06, 03:23 PM	Human Sorcerer 6/Incantatrix 10/Archmage 4 I know, it's a bit cliche as far as arcane min/max goes, but this is probably one of the best blaster Sorcerers there is. Feat setup might look something like this: Human: Education 1st: Empower 3rd: Maximize 6th: Iron Will Inc 1: Twin 9th: Skill Focus: Spellcraft Inc 5: Delay 12th: Spell Focus (XXX) 15th: Spell Focus (XXXX) Inc 10: Improve Initiative 18th: Quicken (Planning Ahead) EDIT: Sorry, I see that someone else has already posted this idea. You forgot the repeat metamagic feat. it's .... Nifty!!!
deguello 04-07-06, 04:01 PM	I actaully prefer the front-side blaster Type sorcerer.. Works really well with any dex bonus race or as I play a human for the extra skills S 8 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 10 Chr 15 My bonus Ability points go into Chr If it's a Ray or ranged touch spell take it... Work to get Dex enhancing magic items... Feats 1: Improved initiative 1: Point blank shot 3: Precise shot Feats at 6+ just go towards what PC you want to go to.... you could choose Weapon focus Ray at 6, and empower at 9. Your chr grows just in time to use the next level of spells.. and you arn't really concerned with DC as you are just DD monsters, Touch attack is what you really are concentrating on.. Don't over look ray of enfeeblement. Your higher than averge intel allows you to make use of skills not normally associated with sorcerers... You will mainly be after support characters... Wizzies, Rogues and clerics.. Though your tank will love you when you can enfeeble the giant he is going toe to toe with.
NineInchNall 04-07-06, 05:43 PM	Mage of the Arcane Order is from Tome and Blood. Complete Arcane now.
dirkformica 08-14-06, 07:21 PM	Anybody have any updated ideas for Sorcerer based builds? I know they're the red-headed stepchild of the Wizard around here, but I have a player who wants to play an Arcane Caster with little experience and the Sorcerer seems like a decent choice to get him more familiar with Arcane magic (as well as for myself.) An oddball idea I was kicking around (originally as a possible opponent, but now as a possible character idea) is the Sylph from Monster Manual 2. They have an odd, Sorcerer based racial casting progression and Outsider hit dice. Base ECL of 8, but casting as a 7th level Sorc, along with great stats and Improved Invisibility at will, amongst a couple other things. So something like Sylph 3/ Ruathar 1 (Races of the Wild) / Sylph 1 / Incantatrix 10 +5 LA I'm thinking that should be the equivalent of a 19th level Sorcerer for casting (but no familiar,) 4d8 Outsider Hit Dice, 1d6 Ruathar hit dice (mainly for the skill access to get into Incantatrix as well as for the caster progression,) and 10d4 Incantatrix hit dice with all its goodies. This build won't have many feats, skills will never be too good (even if those 4 Outsider levels do give 8 + Int, the level caps will hurt pretty bad) and it'll be susceptible to any spells or abilities that target hit dice like Holy Word. However, Improved Invisibility at will, 90 ft. Good flight, summon monster VI elementals once per day, and +6 Cha, +6 Wis, +4 Int, +2 Dex at the cost of -2 to both Str and Con sounds like a pretty decent package. (Edit: Hmmm... I'm now wondering if I'd have to take at least 1 actual level of Sorcerer. All of the +1 spellcasting classes use the verbiage "existing spell casting class" and the racial casting wouldn't really apply there. So I'd lose that Sylph level and its goodies, in order to get that single level of Sorcerer.) Of course, I'd like to see some other newer ideas, not just weird races like the Sylph, but just any kind of updated Sorcerer builds. It would also be nice to see the essential Sorcerer spell lists updated with the newer books, especially Spell Compendium, as well (edit: Found this thread that does, in fact, have many updated lists of good Sorcerer spells (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=183763&page=1&pp=30)
OGS-Remix 08-14-06, 08:05 PM	(Edit: Hmmm... I'm now wondering if I'd have to take at least 1 actual level of Sorcerer. All of the +1 spellcasting classes use the verbiage "existing spell casting class" and the racial casting wouldn't really apply there. So I'd lose that Sylph level and its goodies, in order to get that single level of Sorcerer.) Actually, here is a reference from the Q&A Board here: On another thread, however, someone online gave me the following quotation from the online SRD. It also appears on page 294 of the Monster Manual: A spellcasting class is an associated class for a creature that already has the ability to cast spells as a character of the class in question, since the monster’s levels in the spellcasting class stack with its innate spellcasting ability. So you would not need to take an actual level of Sorcerer in order to get your full progression. However, with the metamagic Sorcerer presented in PHB II, 1 level of Sorc is really nice in Sylph builds. (Unless your DM is nice and lets you get something for nothing). The ability to apply metamagic without increasing cast time is so incredibly useful. It replaces the entire line of Sudden Feats for Sorcs and turns them into the best counterspellers.