Best sorcerer feats and spells. From ALL BOOKS. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best sorcerer feats and spells. From ALL BOOKS. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
johniemi
12-09-03, 02:19 PM Ok people, post here the best feats and spells for a sorcerer. I will post my spell selection in a few days as I get my splat books from a friend.

Maybe we could ignore the first 3 spell levels (cantrips, 1st, 2nd) as these spells don't usually offer anything really interesting. Or if they do, selecting the spells for those lower slots is easier as the number of spell slots is pretty high for the lower level spells. Of course if you know a great 2nd level spell that really stands out from the crowd, please post it.

Also, comments why you chose spell X or feat Y would be appreciated. And please mention the book the spell is from. Like I said, I'll contribute my spell and feat list in a few days.

Thanks!

-John
RabidWeasel
12-09-03, 02:40 PM What kind of sorc are you aiming for?

There's tons of good options for melee casters in the complete warrior, for example.
Setanos
12-09-03, 02:41 PM Well, as far as feats are concerned, I really like:

Spell Focus: Transmutation
Spell Focus: Conjuration
Skill Focus: Spell Craft

To get you to the Archmage PRC. Transmutation and Conjuration are just my personal favorites as far as spells are concerned.
johniemi
12-09-03, 02:47 PM I'm aiming for a melee caster, taking havoc mage levels from Miniatures Handbook and then some spellsword levels from the Complete Warrior.
catharz
12-09-03, 02:50 PM Shadow evocation, Shadow conjuration, Shades, etc.
Lago AM3P
12-09-03, 04:03 PM As a sorceror, you will generally want spells that have more than one function than one in them or are so good that you have to ask yourself whether you DON'T want them on hand.

Spells of this nature (core, anyway) include telekinesis, wall of stone (effective as an area save-or-die, area control spell, and a money-maker spell), polymorph any object, fabricate, greater magic weapon, moment of prescience, silent image, shadow magic in general, dominate person/monster, magic jar, shapechange, and plane shift (effective as a quick-escape spell and a save-or-die).

Don't pick up too many damage-dealing spells that don't affect a noticable area; damage-dealing spells scale really poorly.

Some spells stack really well with what you want to do already, but are sort of limited in use or are too short of a duration to count on; spells like this include ghostform, fly, scry, teleport, soforth.

Also, don't count out your familiar. While low in hp, please note that it can take up spells of personal range without it affecting you. For example, you can slap a polymorph any object, greater magic weapon, and a tenser's transformation on your familiar and have a nifty little backup archer.

As a side note, don't take hide life. It's a good NPC spell, but in a team-based game where high-level combat will end up with people DEAD if the combat goes on too long, it doesn't really do anything other than not have the party worry about you. But you already have spells to do that.
Previn
12-09-03, 04:14 PM Lago AM3P, how is Wall of Stone a money making spell?
Lago AM3P
12-09-03, 04:20 PM Because you can use it to construct things, and with stone shape and fabricate, you can also create consumable goods.

Like your friggin' headquarters. That Hero Builder's Guidebook is a naked rip-off, I'll tell you what. Gimme a hallow, a forbiddance, some polymorph any objects, and a wall of stone and I'll keep my money, thank you.
GravatusDecor
12-09-03, 06:54 PM How about arcane strike from Dragon Magazine #310?
Arcane strike is a nice feat for melee-oriented caster; you sacrifice one spell and get bonuses on attack rolls and damage

Energy substitution is pretty handy when dealing with element immunities. I like sonic and acid better because it’s rare to see creatures immune to that.

Finally, Sculpt Self is another feat from the dragon magazine…choose a path (soul, earth, water, ext) and spend some XP in order to obtain special abilities… the water path eventually makes you immune to critical hits and sneak attacks and counts as EX

(eek! sorry for the incomplete post)
Sisyfos
12-09-03, 07:08 PM Originally posted by GravatusDecor
I also like -- Sculpt Self feat (if you spend 14, 384 it makes you immune to critical hits) [/B]

I did not understand this.

On spells: I like the shadow conjurations... those are great. But here is a good spell: Wall of Force. Did they change that in 3.5 so that it cannot be created as hemisphere anymore? Its uses lessened considerably if that is the case.
catharz
12-09-03, 07:18 PM Sculpt self is really more of an optional rule then a feat. You spend the full experience equivalent of a magical enhancement to gain it as an extraordinary or spell-like ability.
It is extremely potent in a low-magic campaign, or (broken) with a VoP character. It was actually a very good way to make a VoP-like character, and still is for the more evil types. However, as a general rule simply buying or making items is better, as the (sculpt self) experience cost can get crippling.
Lokathor
12-09-03, 07:43 PM Sculpt Spell (Tome and Blood) is very nice, and it can do some crazy stuff. It makes low-level spells like Shatter and Glitterdust much more powerful.

Explosive Spell (Unapproachable East) can be useful sometimes, depending on your spell list. It's nice if you happen to have Mastery of Shaping or Sculpt spell, letting you control to some extent where people are on the battlefield.

If you aren't big on using lots of area spell, ignore everything I've said.
foxylady
12-10-03, 03:19 AM Originally posted by Sisyfos

On spells: I like the shadow conjurations... those are great.

They're higher level in 3.5, so I don't like them nearly as much.
But here is a good spell: Wall of Force. Did they change that in 3.5 so that it cannot be created as hemisphere anymore?
Yes, they did.
catharz
12-10-03, 03:37 AM Shadow conjuration is 4th level, Evocation is 5th.
In 3.0, they are at exactly the same levels (4th and 5th)...

:confused:

Yes, Shades and Greater shadow evocation have gone up in level. What does this mean? You can now make a GSE Delayed blast fireball or Prismatic spray :smirk:
johniemi
12-10-03, 06:56 AM Originally posted by Lokathor
Sculpt Spell (Tome and Blood) is very nice, and it can do some crazy stuff. It makes low-level spells like Shatter and Glitterdust much more powerful.

Maybe I'm blind but I don't see it in Tome & Blood's spell-list (pages 83-96)

Where is it?

-John
Fireballs are nice
12-10-03, 09:56 AM "Maybe I'm blind but I don't see it in Tome & Blood's spell-list (pages 83-96)"

IT'S A FEAT!
johniemi
12-10-03, 11:18 AM LOL! I still can't find it. I have now looked the spell-list (pages 83-96) AND the feats (pages 21-23).

Maybe Lokathor meant some other splatbook? Or maybe I'm really really stupid.

-John
Vainglory
12-10-03, 01:49 PM Try Tome and Blood page 42
Fireballs are nice
12-10-03, 01:51 PM page 42, top of the left collumn

are you sure you've got tome and blood (check the front of the book,should be a human and elf cooperating on a spell, a gnome who had just casted mirror image and a thing with a whip :twitch: )
Morka
12-10-03, 02:38 PM Ray of Enfeblement, while a low-level spell, is useful. Use feats like Empower & Maximize on it, you suddenly lower your opponent STR by 14! The 24 STR Barbarian charging you is now suddenly a 10 STR average man.

Disintegrate: one of the best single-target offensive spells. It will affect undead- which many spells won't. My unexpected appreciation came for the non-combat utility. Who needs passwall? or knock? You want me to destroy the phylactery with hardness 50? No problem. I can't cast all the spells to get through a prismatic wall- but i can disentigrate the ground below it and walk under.

As for the Feats, Metamagic feats are created for Sorcerors, because they don't have to learn the transmutted feat, they just use a spell slot one or more level higher. Suddenly muted? If you have Silent Spell, cast all your spells higher, and you can continue to be useful.
JosephKell
12-10-03, 04:01 PM Eschew Materials, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw

But the last two are the best for everyone. Tell any Convention DM that you think II and QD are the best feats and you will get a teary hug. Con DM's see every crap scam there is, and they love it when someone actually invests in the abilities they claim to have (those being acting fast and drawing fast).
Jindl
12-10-03, 11:06 PM Here's a good spell for a sorceror...

False life. Just cast it on yourself 6 or 7 times. And a duration of 1hr/level, yippie!

Hrmm, 6d10+60 more hps from 6 castings, time to polymorph and whoop a$$!

-Jindl
catharz
12-10-03, 11:49 PM Originally posted by JosephKell
Eschew Materials, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw

But the last two are the best for everyone. Tell any Convention DM that you think II and QD are the best feats and you will get a teary hug. Con DM's see every crap scam there is, and they love it when someone actually invests in the abilities they claim to have (those being acting fast and drawing fast).

Good call, but I would still question Quickdraw for a Sorceror, unless you plan on relying on wands.
JosephKell
12-10-03, 11:59 PM Originally posted by catharz
Good call, but I would still question Quickdraw for a Sorceror, unless you plan on relying on wands. Or, Quick Draw can be used to draw components that cost more than 1 gp. Like a spell focus. Or you could skill Eschew Materials and just use Quick Draw to whip out that handfull of sand to throw it in the eyes of the enemy with Color Spray.
True Balance
12-11-03, 01:06 AM i guess this is the appropriate way to put this in conversation. i think one of the coolest feats for a sorcerer or wzard or any spell caster is "transdimensional spell" out of "unapproachable east". it lets you cast spells that affect creatures on touching planes. i understand that to mean if you are on the ethereal plane you could cast spells that affect creatures on the material plane. with this feat a spellcaster is almost assured never to worry about most combat situations as long as he/she stays on the ethereal, astral, or shadow plane. another thought, spells cast on the astral are maximized....stay on the astral and cast your spells.

if anyone can refute what i just stated i actually would like to hear it.
thorian
12-11-03, 04:33 AM Transdimensional Spell doesn't work from a coexistent plane to the prime, only from the prime to a coexistent plane.
True Balance
12-11-03, 05:10 AM thorian, where does it say that. i havnt found anything that refutes what i stated. i know typically only force effects extend to the ethereal and not ethereal to the prime. with this feat it doesnt make sense to me that you can say spells only cast on the material affect the ethereal and shadow (or astral for that matter). the description of the feat states that you can effect creatures lurking in coexisting planes. these four planes coexist and touch each other.

you may think i'm wrong but i'll play it this way unless i see proof regarding this feat otherwise.

btw, i did post the question of this feat on 2 or 3 boards yesterday and didnt get a response.

*edit: bloodtide_the_red on another thread just answered my post and agreed with my ascertion.
thorian
12-11-03, 03:48 PM You can read the feat for yourself:
Transdimensional Spell
[Metamagic]
You can cast spells that affect targets lurking in coexistent planes and extradimensional spaces whose entrances fall within the area of effect.
Benefit: A transdimensional spell has full, normal effect upon incorporeal creatures, creatures on the Ethereal Plane or Plane of Shadow, and creatures within an extradimensional space in the area of effect. Such creatures include ethereal creatures, creatures that are blinking or shadow walking, manifested ghosts, and creatures within the extradimensional space of a rope trick or portable hole.
You must be able to perceive a creature to target it witha spell, but you do not need to perceive a creature to catch it in the area of a burst, cone, emanation, or spread.
A transdimensional spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level.
Normal: Only force spells and effects can affect ethereal creatures, and no Material Plane attack affects creatures on the Plane of Shadow or in an enclosed extradimensional space. There is a 50% chance that any spell other than a force effect fails against an incorporeal creature.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
johniemi 12-09-03, 02:19 PM	Ok people, post here the best feats and spells for a sorcerer. I will post my spell selection in a few days as I get my splat books from a friend. Maybe we could ignore the first 3 spell levels (cantrips, 1st, 2nd) as these spells don't usually offer anything really interesting. Or if they do, selecting the spells for those lower slots is easier as the number of spell slots is pretty high for the lower level spells. Of course if you know a great 2nd level spell that really stands out from the crowd, please post it. Also, comments why you chose spell X or feat Y would be appreciated. And please mention the book the spell is from. Like I said, I'll contribute my spell and feat list in a few days. Thanks! -John
RabidWeasel 12-09-03, 02:40 PM	What kind of sorc are you aiming for? There's tons of good options for melee casters in the complete warrior, for example.
Setanos 12-09-03, 02:41 PM	Well, as far as feats are concerned, I really like: Spell Focus: Transmutation Spell Focus: Conjuration Skill Focus: Spell Craft To get you to the Archmage PRC. Transmutation and Conjuration are just my personal favorites as far as spells are concerned.
johniemi 12-09-03, 02:47 PM	I'm aiming for a melee caster, taking havoc mage levels from Miniatures Handbook and then some spellsword levels from the Complete Warrior.
catharz 12-09-03, 02:50 PM	Shadow evocation, Shadow conjuration, Shades, etc.
Lago AM3P 12-09-03, 04:03 PM	As a sorceror, you will generally want spells that have more than one function than one in them or are so good that you have to ask yourself whether you DON'T want them on hand. Spells of this nature (core, anyway) include telekinesis, wall of stone (effective as an area save-or-die, area control spell, and a money-maker spell), polymorph any object, fabricate, greater magic weapon, moment of prescience, silent image, shadow magic in general, dominate person/monster, magic jar, shapechange, and plane shift (effective as a quick-escape spell and a save-or-die). Don't pick up too many damage-dealing spells that don't affect a noticable area; damage-dealing spells scale really poorly. Some spells stack really well with what you want to do already, but are sort of limited in use or are too short of a duration to count on; spells like this include ghostform, fly, scry, teleport, soforth. Also, don't count out your familiar. While low in hp, please note that it can take up spells of personal range without it affecting you. For example, you can slap a polymorph any object, greater magic weapon, and a tenser's transformation on your familiar and have a nifty little backup archer. As a side note, don't take hide life. It's a good NPC spell, but in a team-based game where high-level combat will end up with people DEAD if the combat goes on too long, it doesn't really do anything other than not have the party worry about you. But you already have spells to do that.
Previn 12-09-03, 04:14 PM	Lago AM3P, how is Wall of Stone a money making spell?
Lago AM3P 12-09-03, 04:20 PM	Because you can use it to construct things, and with stone shape and fabricate, you can also create consumable goods. Like your friggin' headquarters. That Hero Builder's Guidebook is a naked rip-off, I'll tell you what. Gimme a hallow, a forbiddance, some polymorph any objects, and a wall of stone and I'll keep my money, thank you.
GravatusDecor 12-09-03, 06:54 PM	How about arcane strike from Dragon Magazine #310? Arcane strike is a nice feat for melee-oriented caster; you sacrifice one spell and get bonuses on attack rolls and damage Energy substitution is pretty handy when dealing with element immunities. I like sonic and acid better because it’s rare to see creatures immune to that. Finally, Sculpt Self is another feat from the dragon magazine…choose a path (soul, earth, water, ext) and spend some XP in order to obtain special abilities… the water path eventually makes you immune to critical hits and sneak attacks and counts as EX (eek! sorry for the incomplete post)
Sisyfos 12-09-03, 07:08 PM	Originally posted by GravatusDecor I also like -- Sculpt Self feat (if you spend 14, 384 it makes you immune to critical hits) [/B] I did not understand this. On spells: I like the shadow conjurations... those are great. But here is a good spell: Wall of Force. Did they change that in 3.5 so that it cannot be created as hemisphere anymore? Its uses lessened considerably if that is the case.
catharz 12-09-03, 07:18 PM	Sculpt self is really more of an optional rule then a feat. You spend the full experience equivalent of a magical enhancement to gain it as an extraordinary or spell-like ability. It is extremely potent in a low-magic campaign, or (broken) with a VoP character. It was actually a very good way to make a VoP-like character, and still is for the more evil types. However, as a general rule simply buying or making items is better, as the (sculpt self) experience cost can get crippling.
Lokathor 12-09-03, 07:43 PM	Sculpt Spell (Tome and Blood) is very nice, and it can do some crazy stuff. It makes low-level spells like Shatter and Glitterdust much more powerful. Explosive Spell (Unapproachable East) can be useful sometimes, depending on your spell list. It's nice if you happen to have Mastery of Shaping or Sculpt spell, letting you control to some extent where people are on the battlefield. If you aren't big on using lots of area spell, ignore everything I've said.
foxylady 12-10-03, 03:19 AM	Originally posted by Sisyfos On spells: I like the shadow conjurations... those are great. They're higher level in 3.5, so I don't like them nearly as much. But here is a good spell: Wall of Force. Did they change that in 3.5 so that it cannot be created as hemisphere anymore? Yes, they did.
catharz 12-10-03, 03:37 AM	Shadow conjuration is 4th level, Evocation is 5th. In 3.0, they are at exactly the same levels (4th and 5th)... :confused: Yes, Shades and Greater shadow evocation have gone up in level. What does this mean? You can now make a GSE Delayed blast fireball or Prismatic spray :smirk:
johniemi 12-10-03, 06:56 AM	Originally posted by Lokathor Sculpt Spell (Tome and Blood) is very nice, and it can do some crazy stuff. It makes low-level spells like Shatter and Glitterdust much more powerful. Maybe I'm blind but I don't see it in Tome & Blood's spell-list (pages 83-96) Where is it? -John
Fireballs are nice 12-10-03, 09:56 AM	"Maybe I'm blind but I don't see it in Tome & Blood's spell-list (pages 83-96)" IT'S A FEAT!
johniemi 12-10-03, 11:18 AM	LOL! I still can't find it. I have now looked the spell-list (pages 83-96) AND the feats (pages 21-23). Maybe Lokathor meant some other splatbook? Or maybe I'm really really stupid. -John
Vainglory 12-10-03, 01:49 PM	Try Tome and Blood page 42
Fireballs are nice 12-10-03, 01:51 PM	page 42, top of the left collumn are you sure you've got tome and blood (check the front of the book,should be a human and elf cooperating on a spell, a gnome who had just casted mirror image and a thing with a whip :twitch: )
Morka 12-10-03, 02:38 PM	Ray of Enfeblement, while a low-level spell, is useful. Use feats like Empower & Maximize on it, you suddenly lower your opponent STR by 14! The 24 STR Barbarian charging you is now suddenly a 10 STR average man. Disintegrate: one of the best single-target offensive spells. It will affect undead- which many spells won't. My unexpected appreciation came for the non-combat utility. Who needs passwall? or knock? You want me to destroy the phylactery with hardness 50? No problem. I can't cast all the spells to get through a prismatic wall- but i can disentigrate the ground below it and walk under. As for the Feats, Metamagic feats are created for Sorcerors, because they don't have to learn the transmutted feat, they just use a spell slot one or more level higher. Suddenly muted? If you have Silent Spell, cast all your spells higher, and you can continue to be useful.
JosephKell 12-10-03, 04:01 PM	Eschew Materials, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw But the last two are the best for everyone. Tell any Convention DM that you think II and QD are the best feats and you will get a teary hug. Con DM's see every crap scam there is, and they love it when someone actually invests in the abilities they claim to have (those being acting fast and drawing fast).
Jindl 12-10-03, 11:06 PM	Here's a good spell for a sorceror... False life. Just cast it on yourself 6 or 7 times. And a duration of 1hr/level, yippie! Hrmm, 6d10+60 more hps from 6 castings, time to polymorph and whoop a$$! -Jindl
catharz 12-10-03, 11:49 PM	Originally posted by JosephKell Eschew Materials, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw But the last two are the best for everyone. Tell any Convention DM that you think II and QD are the best feats and you will get a teary hug. Con DM's see every crap scam there is, and they love it when someone actually invests in the abilities they claim to have (those being acting fast and drawing fast). Good call, but I would still question Quickdraw for a Sorceror, unless you plan on relying on wands.
JosephKell 12-10-03, 11:59 PM	Originally posted by catharz Good call, but I would still question Quickdraw for a Sorceror, unless you plan on relying on wands. Or, Quick Draw can be used to draw components that cost more than 1 gp. Like a spell focus. Or you could skill Eschew Materials and just use Quick Draw to whip out that handfull of sand to throw it in the eyes of the enemy with Color Spray.
True Balance 12-11-03, 01:06 AM	i guess this is the appropriate way to put this in conversation. i think one of the coolest feats for a sorcerer or wzard or any spell caster is "transdimensional spell" out of "unapproachable east". it lets you cast spells that affect creatures on touching planes. i understand that to mean if you are on the ethereal plane you could cast spells that affect creatures on the material plane. with this feat a spellcaster is almost assured never to worry about most combat situations as long as he/she stays on the ethereal, astral, or shadow plane. another thought, spells cast on the astral are maximized....stay on the astral and cast your spells. if anyone can refute what i just stated i actually would like to hear it.
thorian 12-11-03, 04:33 AM	Transdimensional Spell doesn't work from a coexistent plane to the prime, only from the prime to a coexistent plane.
True Balance 12-11-03, 05:10 AM	thorian, where does it say that. i havnt found anything that refutes what i stated. i know typically only force effects extend to the ethereal and not ethereal to the prime. with this feat it doesnt make sense to me that you can say spells only cast on the material affect the ethereal and shadow (or astral for that matter). the description of the feat states that you can effect creatures lurking in coexisting planes. these four planes coexist and touch each other. you may think i'm wrong but i'll play it this way unless i see proof regarding this feat otherwise. btw, i did post the question of this feat on 2 or 3 boards yesterday and didnt get a response. *edit: bloodtide_the_red on another thread just answered my post and agreed with my ascertion.
thorian 12-11-03, 03:48 PM	You can read the feat for yourself: Transdimensional Spell [Metamagic] You can cast spells that affect targets lurking in coexistent planes and extradimensional spaces whose entrances fall within the area of effect. Benefit: A transdimensional spell has full, normal effect upon incorporeal creatures, creatures on the Ethereal Plane or Plane of Shadow, and creatures within an extradimensional space in the area of effect. Such creatures include ethereal creatures, creatures that are blinking or shadow walking, manifested ghosts, and creatures within the extradimensional space of a rope trick or portable hole. You must be able to perceive a creature to target it witha spell, but you do not need to perceive a creature to catch it in the area of a burst, cone, emanation, or spread. A transdimensional spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell's actual level. Normal: Only force spells and effects can affect ethereal creatures, and no Material Plane attack affects creatures on the Plane of Shadow or in an enclosed extradimensional space. There is a 50% chance that any spell other than a force effect fails against an incorporeal creature.