Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TrackStar 08-07-05, 07:57 AM	(It is a Human/Vampire BTW.) I am a human with 7th level arcane wizard casting and 2nd level divine druid casting. (1druid/3human paragon/3wizard/10geomancer) I have Greater Spell Focus in Enchantments and Necro. and Great Spell Penetration. (doesnt matter against Vampires though) What are the best spells to use for this battle? I also have a +10(total enhancments) comp long bow for the battle if it matters. Along with abunch of good magic items. I dont think that matters though, I just really need the best possable spells for this fight. I have access to ALL books. :) THANKS GUYS! :D (Oh, and this Vampire has really good items on him) **I got seperated from my party and it is just me vs the vampire. So it is going to come down to spells and tactics or I am toast. ;) ***Any spells go that are within my caster lvl. (7th arcane/2nd divine.druid)
Aramas 08-07-05, 10:45 AM	So you are going to try to solo a wizard whose CR is 5 higher than you and who has access to 9th level spells? I recommend rolling up a new character now because you will die unless you come up with something absolutely brilliant AND you have a nice DM.
Haml337 08-07-05, 11:19 AM	<random guess> Get your arrows blessed with holy properties so you get alignment damage... and then "True Strike" it, so you can hopefully stake him? Then roll up a new character. You get ONE shot doing that. No matter HOW far away you are. :dancin:
Joachim 08-07-05, 11:36 AM	Buy a scroll with Sunbeam on it, pray you pass your caster check, and hope he fails his reflex save.
Lilt 08-07-05, 12:44 PM	I agree with the sunbeam idea, although maybe making it a sunburst would be better and easier to cast (sunburst is on the sorc/wiz list and thus would only require a 2 on the CL check. Plus the save DC is 1 higher) Other ideas are to make yourself immune to everything you can (Death Ward, Protection from Evil, immunity to most elemental damage, etc), get a moment of prescience so that you win initiative (the same option is available to him, but the GM may noy have planned it right), keep Spell Turning up so that he can't targeted dispel you ETC. A scroll of Gate so you can gate-in a Planetar would be nice too. Basically, I think you'll have to be prepared to expend some resources to win that fight. It is definately winnable, however, you just need to decide what expenditures offer the best returns and exactly how much to expend. The concequences of spending too little should probably be obvious, but don't go too crazy with the wishes unless you can save them for the future.
Aramas 08-07-05, 01:10 PM	I still don't see how you can win vs the vamp's Timestop. You get the surprise round and 1 full round to kill him (if you win initiative) then he casts time stop and that's basically the end of the fight.
Lilt 08-07-05, 01:54 PM	I still don't see how you can win vs the vamp's Timestop. You get the surprise round and 1 full round to kill him (if you win initiative) then he casts time stop and that's basically the end of the fight.Simple, you buy a scroll of time-stop (or two).
Aramas 08-07-05, 02:24 PM	If I am reading the original post correctly then the poster doesn't have the opportunity to get items. He was asking for spells that he has access to (i.e. 7th level and under Arcane and 2nd level Druid). So I don't think buying scrolls of spells he can't cast are an option.
PhaedrusXY 08-07-05, 02:34 PM	Limited Wish (I wish he'd fail his next saving throw. Gives him a -7 penalty to it.) followed by a Quickened Command Undead. Your GSF: Necromancy will help with the save. Even though it's against his best save, you should still have a good chance he'll fail with this combo.
Particle 08-07-05, 02:38 PM	hm, its a 20 lvl Vamp? So he is a 12th lvl Wiz, 8 lvls Vampire, right? Since the Vampire template increases HD, but eliminates Con, he should have 12 + 11*6.5 HP on average, which is 80.5. How about plain damage? Disintegrate should deal 13*2*3.5 damage on average, which is 91. No save, and hope he has no items that grant him SR. And Disintegrate prevents gaseous form imo, so ne stupid regernartion. And if I see it right, the Vamp only has 6th lvls spells. So no Time Stop either. Of course, if he is a 20th lvl Wiz and has added the Vampire template on top of it, its another matter. But I dont think your GM would be this unfair. Hope so at least...
PhaedrusXY 08-07-05, 02:48 PM	You don't use Level Adjustment for NPCs. You use increased Challenge Ratings, which are never as high as the equivalent Level Adjustment. The Vampire template only adds +2 to CR. The +8 is the LA. So a 20th level wizard vampire would be a CR 22 monster, which would be appropriate to throw against a party of 20th level PCs.
Aramas 08-07-05, 02:50 PM	It's an NPC, therefore you just use the CR increase of +2 not the LA of +8. And, unless I am reading the first post incorrectly, it is a 20th level wizard with the vampire template, i.e. a CR 22 encounter. This should be a nigh impossible encounter for a party of 4 17th level characters, let alone a single 17th level PC.
Hanniball 08-07-05, 03:18 PM	This should be a nigh impossible encounter for a party of 4 17th level characters, let alone a single 17th level PC. Are you serious? An optimized 17th lvl character would dominate an unoptimized straight 20th lvl. vampiric wizard, IMO. Now, the character in question isn't neccessarily optimized so we must optimize spell selection. I'm assuming you have some means of acquiring whatever spell(s) you want (if not, I'll need to see your spellbook to determine what you can do with what you have). You're spell focus necromancy will boost the DCs on the following spells, all of which are very useful for your dilemma: Control Undead, Command Undead, and Magic Jar (if you magic jar him, grab the jar and walk out into the beautiful sunshine and dismiss the spell :D ). If it gets really ugly, just forcecage him, leave, and come back with some back up. Either way...just my 0.02 cp
Particle 08-07-05, 03:18 PM	you are right, my mistake. Either the GM is mean, or wants to test your creativity, or he wants you to search ways to avoid the fight. Can you by any means avoid the fight? Do so! Other way, recalculation of the HP: 12 + 6.5*19 =135.5 If you get initative, 2 Disintigrates should do the trick if he has no SR. Might be you best option if neither buying items nor avoiding the combat works.
PhaedrusXY 08-07-05, 03:26 PM	Mmm... Hannibal is right. Use Magic Jar instead, and hope he doesn't have Protection from Good cast on him. It is a higher level spell, and hence will have a higher DC, and you can outright destroy him if it is daylight outside (which is often difficult with an intelligently played vampire). This is actually a good general strategy for destroying vampires which I don't think I'd considered before... and I really like Necromancy and the Magic Jar spell, lol.
Hanniball 08-07-05, 03:30 PM	This is actually a good general strategy for destroying vampires which I don't think I'd considered before... and I really like Necromancy and the Magic Jar spell, lol. I've used this tatic a few times (a few too many perhaps) and it hasn't failed me yet. Remember, it lasts 1hr/lvl so you can just wait until the sun comes up if need be.
Welcome 08-07-05, 03:55 PM	If it gets really ugly, just forcecage him, leave, and come back with some back up. Don't forget the dimensional anchor or you're in for a nasty surprise.
Lilt 08-07-05, 04:16 PM	Don't forget the dimensional anchor or you're in for a nasty surprise.I don't think even that would work, as the wizard can just dispel the anchor if he's left to his own devices.
Aramas 08-07-05, 04:20 PM	Are you serious? An optimized 17th lvl character would dominate an unoptimized straight 20th lvl. vampiric wizard, IMO. I don't know about you... but when I make BBEG's for my campaigns they are usually better optimized than the PCs and a 20th level Vamp Wiz sure sounds big bad and evil.
TrackStar 08-07-05, 04:53 PM	hm, its a 20 lvl Vamp? So he is a 12th lvl Wiz, 8 lvls Vampire, right? Since the Vampire template increases HD, but eliminates Con, he should have 12 + 11*6.5 HP on average, which is 80.5. How about plain damage? Disintegrate should deal 13*2*3.5 damage on average, which is 91. No save, and hope he has no items that grant him SR. And Disintegrate prevents gaseous form imo, so ne stupid regernartion. And if I see it right, the Vamp only has 6th lvls spells. So no Time Stop either. Of course, if he is a 20th lvl Wiz and has added the Vampire template on top of it, its another matter. But I dont think your GM would be this unfair. Hope so at least... It is the the 20th lvl wizard with the vampire on top... I attacked him because he bit one of the PC's in our party and left him for dead untill he turns into one of his minions. I had to attack now, or be in for it when the Vampire AND the PC are my enemies. :P
slade_caizer 08-07-05, 09:49 PM	One thing is required beyond all others: surprise. You MUST go first (or even get a surprise round AND better initiative). How you achieve this...I dunno. Frankly it'd take quite a bit of good planning and RP. Now what can you do with a big, bad, undead mf? I rather liked the Command Undead suggestion. It was the first that came to me. Heighten is good, but I seem to vaguely recall another metamagic feat. It was something like Fortify Spell. I _think_ it raised the DC by 2 for each extra spell level that the base spell was raised. Be sure to equip yourself with +Int items. The limited wish suggestion was a great setup, but I'd probably reserve that for a surprise round or something done in advance if you know IC that you'll have to fight this guy. Also, Disintegrate does have a save (fortitude for half). On the up side, it DOES work on inanimate objects, therefore it will work on our vampire here (or other undead for that matter). Let's see...it does 2d6 per caster level. Your caster level looked like 13. So as another poster so kindly pointed out he's using his bad save to hopefully take half damage on a 26d6 ranged touch attack. I recommend you Heighten/Fortify/whatever that spell to help things along or leave him with no hope. Also, even though it's a touch attack consider prepping with a True Strike spell. That should seal the deal. If you could maybe use Sudden Maximize and Sudden Empower, it would be wonderful. :D
Giver_of_Rings 08-07-05, 10:03 PM	Anything that requires a fort save, duh.
Ad Infinitum 08-07-05, 10:19 PM	And people aren't mentioning Undeath to Death because of the will save? And don't forget the Spell Enhancer spell from PGF. +2 to DC, +3 if you can empower it.
Ravashack 08-07-05, 10:26 PM	And people aren't mentioning Undeath to Death because of the will save? And don't forget the Spell Enhancer spell from PGF. +2 to DC, +3 if you can empower it. No, people aren't mentioning Undeath to Death because it has a 9 HD cap.
Ad Infinitum 08-07-05, 10:46 PM	Hunh. Well, what do you know. :embarrass: And yet another gap in my 3.0 to 3.5 knowledge is plugged. Thanks.
Xaktsaroth 08-08-05, 12:01 AM	I remember an item called: Arrow of Undead something, I think. It was an single arrow that if it hit an undead, it was a Fort or Die save. That might help. :)
TrackStar 08-08-05, 03:32 AM	Greater Undead Slaying Arrows are where it is at! ;) One thing is required beyond all others: surprise. You MUST go first (or even get a surprise round AND better initiative). How you achieve this...I dunno. Frankly it'd take quite a bit of good planning and RP. Now what can you do with a big, bad, undead mf? I rather liked the Command Undead suggestion. It was the first that came to me. Heighten is good, but I seem to vaguely recall another metamagic feat. It was something like Fortify Spell. I _think_ it raised the DC by 2 for each extra spell level that the base spell was raised. Be sure to equip yourself with +Int items. The limited wish suggestion was a great setup, but I'd probably reserve that for a surprise round or something done in advance if you know IC that you'll have to fight this guy. Also, Disintegrate does have a save (fortitude for half). On the up side, it DOES work on inanimate objects, therefore it will work on our vampire here (or other undead for that matter). Let's see...it does 2d6 per caster level. Your caster level looked like 13. So as another poster so kindly pointed out he's using his bad save to hopefully take half damage on a 26d6 ranged touch attack. I recommend you Heighten/Fortify/whatever that spell to help things along or leave him with no hope. Also, even though it's a touch attack consider prepping with a True Strike spell. That should seal the deal. If you could maybe use Sudden Maximize and Sudden Empower, it would be wonderful. :D Where can I find the Fortify Spell feat?
TrackStar 08-08-05, 03:34 AM	Could I use "Entice Gift" from BoVD to make him give me his spell book? Would this make it so he cant cast on me anymore? :P
TrackStar 08-08-05, 03:36 AM	What about Power Word Blind? Cant cast on what you cant see right? Or can Vampires get around that?
TrackStar 08-08-05, 03:39 AM	Instead of Magic Jar, I am thinking the 7th lvl spell "Amber Sarcophagus" from Exalted Deeds! No save! MUHAHAHA! Any draw backs?
TrackStar 08-08-05, 03:43 AM	Anything that requires a fort save, duh. Is there a list of spells like this?
Father Dale 08-08-05, 11:28 AM	Power Word Blind (as well as any other PW spell) won't work on a vampire because, as an undead, it is immune to Mind Affecting effects. Disintigrate would be wonderful to use, as a Vampire Wizard will have a horrible Fort save (+6 total at lvl 20, absent any bonuses). However, he very well might be prepared for this with a Displacement/Blink type of effect in place, or even a Contingent Dimension Door. A Bigby's Grasping Hand might be a good opener. At caster lvl 13 it would have a +29 grapple check. The Vampire would have only a BAB +10, and while Vampires are pretty strong I doubt strength is his main stat. Say he has Str 20, hes got a +15 Grapple vs the Hand's +29, which means hes probably failing that check about 95% of the time. Most wizards deal with grappling via Dimension Door, but most wizards won't have but one or two of these ready to go. If he Dimension Doors out of the grapple, the hand will just go after him again, till hes out of DD's. If hes grappled, hes not casting any spells with somatic componenets (absent still spell) and needs to win a grapple check to get any material components in his hand. Assay Resistance in the first round (as a swift action) to make sure you don't have any SR problems to deal with. Spell Turning would be a good defense to have up. As well as Death Ward. And a Greater Blink wouldn't hurt either. It is going to be tough, not because hes a Vampire, but because hes a lvl 20 Wizard. He will have access to spells that you don't, and a bunch more of them than you've got.
TrackStar 08-08-05, 04:38 PM	Power Word Blind (as well as any other PW spell) won't work on a vampire because, as an undead, it is immune to Mind Affecting effects. Dang. Disintigrate would be wonderful to use, as a Vampire Wizard will have a horrible Fort save (+6 total at lvl 20, absent any bonuses). However, he very well might be prepared for this with a Displacement/Blink type of effect in place, or even a Contingent Dimension Door. Hmm, well I have the spell saved alot, I may just use that. But I think my best bet is gonna be the 7th lvl spell "Amber Sarcophagus" from Exalted Deeds. A Bigby's Grasping Hand might be a good opener. At caster lvl 13 it would have a +29 grapple check. The Vampire would have only a BAB +10, and while Vampires are pretty strong I doubt strength is his main stat. Say he has Str 20, hes got a +15 Grapple vs the Hand's +29, which means hes probably failing that check about 95% of the time. Most wizards deal with grappling via Dimension Door, but most wizards won't have but one or two of these ready to go. If he Dimension Doors out of the grapple, the hand will just go after him again, till hes out of DD's. If hes grappled, hes not casting any spells with somatic componenets (absent still spell) and needs to win a grapple check to get any material components in his hand. Hmmm, might be worth a shot. Assay Resistance in the first round (as a swift action) to make sure you don't have any SR problems to deal with. Pretty sure he has no SR. Spell Turning would be a good defense to have up. As well as Death Ward. And a Greater Blink wouldn't hurt either. Don't think I will have time to get those up, but I may try. It is going to be tough, not because hes a Vampire, but because hes a lvl 20 Wizard. He will have access to spells that you don't, and a bunch more of them than you've got. I am afraid of his 9th lvl spells, as long as they aren't used properly I am in good shape. My DM doesnt think he can harm me when he casts timestop, so thats a plus.
TrackStar 08-08-05, 04:55 PM	Here are my Stats: Str: 17 Dex: 21(27 with gloves) **Used tomb of dex +5 Con: 18 Int: 29 (35 with head band) **Used tomb of intellect +5 Wis: 18 Cha: 17 Saves: Fortitude: 21 (11base + 4ability + 5cloak + 1RobeofMagi + 1Stoneofluck) Reflex: 24 (5base + 8ability + 5cloak 2pixiegeomancer + 1RobeofMagi + 1Stoneofluck) Will: 26 (15base + 4ability + 5cloak + 1RobeofMagi + 1Stoneofluck) AC: 36 = 10 + 8Bracers + 8Dex + 5AmuletofNAT + 5ring Need anything else guys?
FangsofChaos 08-08-05, 09:42 PM	Luminous Armor, not sure what book it's in. Undead take penalties around you, and even more attacking. Creatures weak to light (vampires) have an even bigger penalty. We were at level 7, and we had a rookie dm, he put us up against an elite vampire, a cr 15. We lasted a long time because It couldn't hit any of us. We almost killed it.
slade_caizer 08-08-05, 09:50 PM	Here are my Stats: Str: 17 Dex: 21(27 with gloves) **Used tomb of dex +5 Con: 18 Int: 29 (35 with head band) **Used tomb of intellect +5 Wis: 18 Cha: 17 Saves: Fortitude: 21 (11base + 4ability + 5cloak + 1RobeofMagi + 1Stoneofluck) Reflex: 24 (5base + 8ability + 5cloak 2pixiegeomancer + 1RobeofMagi + 1Stoneofluck) Will: 26 (15base + 4ability + 5cloak + 1RobeofMagi + 1Stoneofluck) AC: 36 = 10 + 8Bracers + 8Dex + 5AmuletofNAT + 5ring Need anything else guys? If by "5ring" you mean a Ring of Protection +5, then your AC would be 31. Last I knew a ring of protection gave a deflection bonus. Sadly so does bracers of armor. Since they're the same type of bonuses, they don't stack. Use that open space with a ring of freedom of movement if you can manage the cost. I'd like to see that vampire pin you for a bite now. On a different note, to the bozo who eloquently recommended "anything with a fort save. duh.", I would point out that undead automatically succeed fortitude saves unless the effect would also work on an inanimate object. That being said, the use of a fort save in the spell provisions is not nearly common sense. Perhaps it would be better to know thy enemy. ---------- One other fun, but unlikely, idea would be to use whatever means possible to get your vampire target to accept the next spell cast on him. UMD a scroll of True Resurrection. Then do something fun like a Twin Energy Ebb or something else juicy and cruel. After all, what vampire would prepare some kind of negative energy protection?
Vorlir 08-08-05, 10:07 PM	Bracers of armor grant an armor bonus, not deflection.
TrackStar 08-09-05, 01:31 AM	Bracers of armor grant an armor bonus, not deflection. Yep Luminous Armor, not sure what book it's in. Undead take penalties around you, and even more attacking. Creatures weak to light (vampires) have an even bigger penalty. We were at level 7, and we had a rookie dm, he put us up against an elite vampire, a cr 15. We lasted a long time because It couldn't hit any of us. We almost killed it. Is this a spell or an Item? AND WHERE CAN I FIND IT?! ;)
slade_caizer 08-09-05, 01:34 AM	{Oops. Ignore my foolishness at this time of day. Must have more caffeine...}
TrackStar 08-10-05, 10:42 AM	Thanks for your help everyone. I beat the Vampire. Since I caught him by surprise (the DM/vampire didn't think I would even attack) I was able to cast Amber Sarcauphagus on him (after I saved on a Temporal Stasis spell) and then take him into daylight where I had another party member join me (I entombed my brother as well just incase) and we released thewizard/vampire and then killed him with some Greater Slaying arrows. (he was the type of Vampire that could last in sunlight for a little bit.) One last thing. The Vampire template in the MM v3.5 says it has a LA of +5. Wouldn't that make it a lvl 25 character? Thats what I and my DM decided, but people on here were talking about lvl 22... Whats the deal?
Duo Kasai 08-10-05, 11:19 AM	enh, it dont matter, you beat him. And nicely done I do say. But go with the DM's call on lvl, it means more XP for you. :D
Father Dale 08-10-05, 06:08 PM	Vampire Template has a +8 level adjustment, meaning that its ECL is HD+8 (plus any other level adjustments that might apply from other templates or base creature). Thus, it earns experience as if it were 8 levels higher than its level. However, the template only adds a +2 to its CR. CR is used to determine the experience reward granted for defeating it. Thus, a 20th lvl Vampire Wizard would have a CR of 22. That is what the experience you received for beating him should be based on (barring any other adjustments). So keep your mouth shut and enjoy the significant amount of extra experience you received!