Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fril 05-14-05, 10:11 PM	I'm making a Gnome Sorcerer Illusionist for Living Greyhawk. My general plan is to take three damage spells (Magic Missile/Searing ray/Fireball). And eventally take Phantasmal Killer at level 8. But the other spells I can't really choose real well as I never played a sorcerer. Feat wise. I took Escew Materials at 1st, it just seems like the sorcerer way of doing things. It seems more in flavor. At 3rd I'm taking Spell Focus (Illusion). After that I just don't know.
PhoenixInferno 05-14-05, 10:39 PM	You definitely want Shadow Conjuration/Evocation and Shades as a Sorcerer. With those spells, you can mimic pretty much any spell in the Conjuration/Evocation schools. With such a limited number of spells known and very few ways to improve upon them, getting spells of such incredible versatility like the Shadow spells is simply a no-brainer.
djinni 05-15-05, 08:13 AM	You definitely want Shadow Conjuration/Evocation and Shades as a Sorcerer. With those spells, you can mimic pretty much any spell in the Conjuration/Evocation schools. With such a limited number of spells known and very few ways to improve upon them, getting spells of such incredible versatility like the Shadow spells is simply a no-brainer. I don't know the books allowed but the shadowcraft mage, and earth spell from races of stone are a must if you can get it. if not then you need to find some prestige class as soon as possible
Fril 05-15-05, 12:22 PM	I don't have Races of Stone, yet. But I plan on taking Fate Spinner once I meet the prereqs.
faradhii 05-16-05, 12:14 PM	You must get Races of Stone! The Shadowcraft Mage is an excellent Illusionist class. Full spell cast progression, Cloak of shadows: an at will ability that grants you a miss chance, the ability to convert your phantasms to shadow spells, the ability to bump the % that a shadow spell is real by up to 20%. What's not to like? :) Also in ROS are the gnome illusionist racial substitution lvls. Give up some conjuration/summoning power and just use shadow conjuration! And yes, ROS also has Earth spell (it's a feat, read it, you'll love it!) Look up Snow Savant's broken Summon Dragon Ally cheese (it's a Conjuration spell from Draconomicon) with greater shadow conj. or Shades you can get a no xp cost Draconic ally. Another book to look at is Underdark Campaign source book's Shadowcrafter. it enhaces the %real of shadow spells and stacks with Shadow Craft mage. Build would be: Gnome Illusionist 6, Shadowcraft Mage 5, Shadowcrafter 9. (you could do illusionist 5 to get the 10th lvl of Shadowcrafter if you wanted to.
Vorlir 05-16-05, 01:25 PM	Is that stuff legal in living greyhawk though?
Broblawsky0 05-16-05, 01:35 PM	You must get Races of Stone! The Shadowcraft Mage is an excellent Illusionist class. Full spell cast progression, Cloak of shadows: an at will ability that grants you a miss chance, the ability to convert your phantasms to shadow spells, the ability to bump the % that a shadow spell is real by up to 20%. What's not to like? :) Also in ROS are the gnome illusionist racial substitution lvls. Give up some conjuration/summoning power and just use shadow conjuration! And yes, ROS also has Earth spell (it's a feat, read it, you'll love it!) Look up Snow Savant's broken Summon Dragon Ally cheese (it's a Conjuration spell from Draconomicon) with greater shadow conj. or Shades you can get a no xp cost Draconic ally. Another book to look at is Underdark Campaign source book's Shadowcrafter. it enhaces the %real of shadow spells and stacks with Shadow Craft mage. Build would be: Gnome Illusionist 6, Shadowcraft Mage 5, Shadowcrafter 9. (you could do illusionist 5 to get the 10th lvl of Shadowcrafter if you wanted to. You need Illusionist 7, since Shadowcraft Mage requires 4th-lvl spells. You could, theoretically, go Wiz5/Fatespinner 2 or Divine Oracle 2, though that might be a bit heavy on the pre-reqs.
faradhii 05-16-05, 02:52 PM	Arch! didn't see the Living Greyhawk Portion! I think that would at least leave the Races of Stone available so you could take the 5 levels of Shadowcraft Mage, but Underdark is Forgotten Realms, so that's right out. Thanks for catching the 4th lvl req. don't have my books with me so I'm going from memory. So: Lvl 7 Illusionist, lvl 5 Shadowcraft mage, at that point you could go into any one of a number of prestige classes. Anyone have a link to Living Greyhawk rules? I know I saw one earlier, I'll go look myself in a second. It may be interesting to throw in Initiate of the 7 fold veils with this build. that would take you to lvl 19 with 2 fully used prestige classes so the DM couldn't accuse you of to much cheese. Or maybe: Illusionist 5, Incantatrix 2 (not sure of the pre-reqs, I know you need Iron Will), Shadowcraft mage 5, Incantatrix 8. A nice, tidy powerful package.
LightAcolyte 05-16-05, 03:30 PM	Here's some spell threads that you may want to look into: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=191514 http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=168634&page=2&pp=30 If you haven't already, go to the Optimization Library (through the Character Optimization Board FAQ at the top of the CO message board main page) and you'll find lots of stuff to help you out with your sorcerer, including, I believe, the "definitive Sorcerer Spell List" or something like that...
Sargh 05-16-05, 04:30 PM	I'm playing a shadowcraft mage in LG. So far it's been pretty solid. As long as you are careful with your spell selection you will do fine. I did not go earth spell/earth sense in my build, but I did pick up heighten spell which really shines in this build. I also went draconic heritage - copper which allowed me to get hide as a class skill to help on the reqs. Once I hit PrC levels I caught back up the move silent skills. The combo of the 2 skills typically allows me to get around and sneak as good as or better than the rogues at the table. The inherent silent meta on illusion spells means you can typically cast away and still make it hard to locate. One particular spell I've found very handy for LG is shadow binding from CAdv. I've used it several times in encounters that made them a cakewalk. The veil ability is absolutely huge in gameplay - it will save your char. At higher lvls, it may be advantageous to make shadow versions of the evoc/conj even if you know the target will more than likely make its save, due to the effect lasting twice as long. And of course the base illusion spells are some of the more versatile and powerful when used with a creative mind. I do not recommend picking up shadow conjuration/evocation with this PrC since it becomes redundant. LG does not allow shadowcrafter. Since you indicated you are a sorc, many of the builds below need to tack on an extra lvl since wiz will qualify before sorc does. By the end of the PrC, that's 13 lvls of char, which leaves only a few for the retirement level of 16. Since this sounds like a new char, I wouldn't worry that far ahead. By the time you guy hits 14 in LG, undoubtedly the environment will have changed again, so there's no use planning that far ahead.
solbergb 05-16-05, 05:28 PM	Yeah, shadow binding..my first L3 spell for my sorcerer...all my playtesting shows it just kicks butt for disrupting the tempo of enemy actions. It would be even better on a gnome illusionist with higher DC's than I'm likely to get with my TK sorcereress (on her, she sees it as a weaker form of evard's tentacles ) It's a non-mind-affecting daze effect for one round, and a round/level entangle effect, interfering with reflex saves, attack rolls and armor class. It is a will save effect, and it is just vicious on things like constructs which are normally immune to daze but not to this illusion/shadow effect. It takes away actions. Enough said. The only downside of the spell is that it is short range and small area. Sculpt spell is a good complement, as is enlarge spell or just a good mobility spell like sudden fly to get you in range without being in danger. My illusionist was also very fond of Veil. It is by far the best infiltration spell in the book, covering all senses and letting your party to appear to be any shape/size. It also lasts a useful length of time. The shadow magic spells are pretty much nobrainers for most illusionists, but if you are a shadowcrafter mage, as long as you have level 5+ illusions, you don't need them because of the class abilities. Except for shadow conjuration which is required for the class. You will want very high save DC's, as the Shadow and Phantasmal spells have two saves. You will want heighten spell by level 10, to ensure your phantasmal killers remain deadly. Because your shadow spells are all SR=YES, even if the spells they duplicate are not you will want a few SR=NO spells. Glitterdust and something like Freezing or Acid fog probably would cover it, maybe an Orb spell.
Sargh 05-17-05, 12:49 AM	Yep shadow binding can be nasty... I remember one encounter in LG where I just cast it every round against the mob (for the daze) and it never got an action past the first round (and only then due to it beating me on init). Actually you don't even need shadow conjuration for the class... heighten spell with a lower lvl shadow spell meets the reqs. Since the shadow spells are SR, I agree you need to flesh out that issue with your other spell selections, hence my comment in the earlier post. I went the route of haste, melfs AA, and glitterdust among others. With hide/move silently, (imp) invis, alter self, cloak of shadow, mage armor, etc, I typically haven't had to worry much about getting eaten in melee. The combination of many spells per day from sorc, heighten spell, the PrC shadow conversion mechanic, and high DC illusions make for some powerful versatility and power at the same time. In LG where you can pretty much figure out when the last encounter is, heighten is nice because it allows you to bump DCs for free basically since you know you don't need to save spell slots for any additional encounters.
solbergb 05-17-05, 11:30 AM	My wife with her future shadowcraft sorcerer is going the route of Draconic Breath (acid) for dealing with direct damage SR issues. It also lets her do without magic missile and fireball in the lower levels until she can cast shadow evocations via class abilities.