| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| palli09-14-06, 10:59 AM | Which spells do you think are the best to empower ? I tend to believe that in many cases it is better to use a spell 2 levels higher, but there are many exceptions. Following is a list of spells i have found very useful to empower: 1. lvl: Ray of enfeeblement (Average 12.75 str damage, no save) 2. lvl: Touch of idiocy (No special advantage, but chances are one mental score goes down -9) 2. lvl: Bulls str/Fox cunn/etc ( Playing by 3.0 rules it gives 1D4+1 which has a chance of +7 enhancement bonus which is hard to get otherwise) 2. lvl: False life (Average + 23 tmp hit points) 7. lvl: Spell turning (Need i say more?:) ) My question is: In your oppinion, which spells are good to empower (from MIN/MAX perspective) and which ones are simply fun to use empowered :) Also: Do you think it is possible to empower the same spell twice (thus using +4 slot) Regards, Palli |
| palli09-14-06, 11:30 AM | Oh enervation is of course a solid choice :D |
| ninjarabbit09-14-06, 12:27 PM | I'll strongly agree with ray of enfeeblement and touch of idiocy, you can really disable a foe with an empowered version of one of those. Especially since those are low level spells that will only take up a 3rd and 4th level slot respectively. |
| Victor_Ograygor09-14-06, 12:29 PM | channeled Pyroburst (complete arcane ) Min Max Incantatrix/Incantatar http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9979720#post9979720 Min max dammage with arcane spells and metamagic feat http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9979748#post9979748 Need help creationg a Thief guild http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10004174#post10004174 Need help with good magic items for thief http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10004187#post10004187 Need help creating cheap golems http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10007988#post10007988 Fire specialist inn forgotten realms build http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10025772#post10025772 ------------------------------------------------------------ Victor Ograygor The Assassin Everything I need to know about life I learned from killing smart people |
| Surreal09-14-06, 01:10 PM | That spell in Frostburn that does 3d6 dex damage (or was it a penalty?) |
| obeah09-14-06, 01:25 PM | er.... Victor Ograygor.. none of those links seem to work or is it just me on opera? |
| Demise09-14-06, 01:29 PM | Links no workie. |
| Dirty Dan the Laundry Man09-14-06, 01:31 PM | Palli, your math looks a bit off. |
| Victor_Ograygor09-14-06, 04:08 PM | ok my links are ok VITRIOLIC SPHERE - Complete arcane Channeled Pyroburst - Players 2 Disintegrate spell - Players 1 |
| Craig C.09-14-06, 05:07 PM | On average, I prefer to empower non-HP-damage spells in regards to offensive spells. Stat damage spells get more bang for the buck. Ray of Stupidity might fall into this camp as well. It's a certified 2nd level fight ender versus a whole bunch of monster types. And it's a No Save spell. :D |
| palli09-16-06, 12:04 PM | Palli, your math looks a bit off. Dirty Dan, Oh you think so ? If I am off at some point, please explain. Also if you have any spells you like to empower, please tell us :) |
| palli09-16-06, 12:10 PM | Anyone have comments on if its possible to empower the same spell twice ? |
| Phoenix0009-16-06, 12:14 PM | You can't apply the same metamagic feat on the same spell twice. |
| jameswilliamogle09-16-06, 12:23 PM | empowered scorching rays are standard. I like empowered maximized twinned Summon Nature's Ally with Augment and Greenbound summoning feats on my druid to summon 14 little boogers that all aid another on my attack via a Helm of Telepathy (won't work w/ most DMs, just the power game I was playing in one campaign). |
| LiamDeclan09-16-06, 12:34 PM | I have to point out that Ray of Enfeeblement doesn't do Strength damage at all. It does a Strength penalty. I agree on Ray of Stupidity for being a great one to empower. It does 1d4+1 INT damage. I have a 6th level Sorcerer who uses Arcane Thesis on this spell along with Empower & Split Ray & Occular Spell. I also have Easy Metamagic for Empower and Split ray so they are basically free when using that spell. When I prepare a Empowered, Split Occulared Ray of Stupidity for each of my eyes, I can drop just about anyone if the rays hit. That would be 4d4+4 X 1.5 Int damage. Shivering Touch from Frostburn is a pretty good spell that does 3d6 Dex damage and would really benefit from empower spell as well. I don't like the fact that is a touch spell but there is always Occular spell or Reach Spell for that. I might have to learn Arcane Thesis and Reach Spell for this baby. Here is a Human Wizard with 2 flaws for feats that specialized in Necromancy. He loves the Arcane Thesis Shivering Touch. 1st. Reach Spell, Easy Metamagic Reach, Split Ray, Easy Metamagic Split Ray 3rd. Empower Spell 5th. (wiz. bonus feat) Easy Metamagic Empower 6th. Arcane Thesis Shivering Touch Now we can make it into a ray spell & split and empower it with no level adjustment at all. 2 rays hitting you for 6d6 X 1.5 Dex damage. Hmmm. It would probably be better if you took Piercing Cold feat instead of Easy Metamagic Empower. That way you can still hit cold creatures with it. I don't know if undead can take ability damage or not. |
| Phoenix0009-16-06, 12:38 PM | Saddly you can't add the winged template to your summon nature spells :( "Fly, my pretties! Fly, fly!" |
| dabrowns09-16-06, 05:53 PM | With Imbued Summoning you can add any spell of up to 3rd level to your summoned pretties. Can anyone say Celestial Flying Badgers? |
| kilroo09-16-06, 07:29 PM | With Imbued Summoning you can add any spell of up to 3rd level to your summoned pretties. Can anyone say Celestial Flying Badgers? I can. And I can enjoy it. A lot. |
| palli09-17-06, 07:45 AM | empowered scorching rays are standard. I like empowered maximized twinned Summon Nature's Ally with Augment and Greenbound summoning feats on my druid to summon 14 little boogers that all aid another on my attack via a Helm of Telepathy (won't work w/ most DMs, just the power game I was playing in one campaign). Nice touch :) |
| CrimsonDeath09-17-06, 01:08 PM | I don't know if undead can take ability damage or not. Not to their physical ability scores (Strength, Dex, and obviously Con). |
| Mikal09-17-06, 01:13 PM | i like using it on an arcane thesis orb of fire. add in some other cheap metamagic effects (if good, consecreate and sanctify spell kick butt), energy substiution for those fire resistant creatures, and you got a nasty little attack (use metamagic variant sorc/incantatar for maximum effect) |
| PonTelon09-17-06, 02:39 PM | The Orbs are the best to Arcane Thesis, I agree. Using a level 9 slot, a Maximized Admixtured Acid/Fire Orb wins. Auto 180 damage on range-touch beats most level 9 spells that I can think of in damage. Add in 5 levels of "War Mage" from Dragonlance: Age of Mortals for +3 damage/die or +90. But I think that is off topic. Empower is ususally better with non-damage spells. Though mixing it with other metamagic(like Maximize or Admixture/Twine) is better. |
| LordBOB77709-17-06, 07:17 PM | where is the Occular spell, Easy Metamagic, and Arcane Thesis? |
| FriendlyFrog09-18-06, 05:06 AM | where is the Occular spell, Easy Metamagic, and Arcane Thesis? Ocular spell is in Lords of Madness, Easy metamagic is from Dragon magazine, and Arcane thesis is from Player's handbook II. |
| palli09-18-06, 08:17 AM | Now we can make it into a ray spell & split and empower it with no level adjustment at all. 2 rays hitting you for 6d6 X 1.5 Dex damage. As a player this is great... But somehow i'd think most DMs would rule Arcane thesis to be overpowered :weep: |
| LiamDeclan09-18-06, 08:30 AM | As a player this is great... But somehow i'd think most DMs would rule Arcane thesis to be overpowered :weep: Nah, my DM would just throw tons of undead at me or something immune to ability damage or use the Ray Deflection spell. |
| creepy drifter09-18-06, 02:21 PM | I'll second the Ray of Stupidity spell as a key spell for empowerment. There's a whole metric tonne of monsters in the various manuals that can be brought down *BAM* with one application of this Ray. Low INT beasties are everywhere. And with it being a "no save" spell, you are gold if you can position the ray's ranged touch attack to not get any penalties (like do to cover). |
| palli09-19-06, 10:22 AM | Aih ! I forget all about cleric spells. Actually i have never played a cleric with the empower feat, but poison comes to mind. Any other suggestions ? |
| palli09-20-06, 07:40 AM | ps: Do you benefit from empowering dispel ?:confused: |
| palli09-20-06, 01:43 PM | Circle of death is one. |
| igotsmeakabob!!09-20-06, 01:55 PM | Empowered Sudden Maximized Ray of Enfeeblement... |
| Person_Man09-20-06, 02:55 PM | Building off of LiamDeclan's post, this is a good combo for a cleric: Take Reach Spell & Easy Metamagic (Reach Spell) Take Split Ray & Easy Metamagic (Split Ray) Divine Metamagic You now have a large bunch of options for any of your touch or ray spells, including Poison (2d10 Con damage), Searing Light (up to 20d8 against undead), Slay Living (Fort Save or Die, Twice), all of the Inflict spells, and Harm (up to 300 points of damage). You can also cast any of the Cure spells or Heal on your friends (or as damage against undead), and it will be doubled, and at a range! For extra fun, throw in Empower Spell + Easy Metamagic, or just Extra Turning to get it out of Divine Metamagic instead. Another fun trick is to take Energy Substitution (sonic) and Born of Three Thunders (requires Energy Sub). Both have +0 spell level adjustment. Now, at your option, all of your energy spells can deal 50/50 Sonic/Electricity damage, and they Stun anyone they damage, and they knock Prone anyone who is Stunned. (Each gets a save). It has the annoying side effect of making the caster (you) Dazed for one round after you cast. But that's easy enough to get around with some planning - you just have to find a way to be immune to Mind Affecting effects. Nymph touched will do it for +1 LA. There are also various spells, items, and PrC's that can do it. |
| tennesseefats09-20-06, 03:55 PM | ps: Do you benefit from empowering dispel ?:confused: I do not believe so. There is no "variable numeric effects" to empower. Yes, I know there is a dice role involved, but I would think the dispel check would be similar to a touch attack for the purposes of determining whether or not empower applies (i.e. you don't get 150% of your attack roll for scorching ray). To answer the topic, I've been playing in a (sadly) core-only game as a halfling illusionist; I frequently use empower on mirror image with my 4th level slot instead of greater invisiblity. |
| LogicNinja09-20-06, 04:03 PM | Building off of LiamDeclan's post, this is a good combo for a cleric: Take Reach Spell & Easy Metamagic (Reach Spell) Take Split Ray & Easy Metamagic (Split Ray) Divine Metamagic You now have a large bunch of options for any of your touch or ray spells, including Poison (2d10 Con damage), Searing Light (up to 20d8 against undead), Slay Living (Fort Save or Die, Twice), all of the Inflict spells, and Harm (up to 300 points of damage). You can also cast any of the Cure spells or Heal on your friends (or as damage against undead), and it will be doubled, and at a range! For extra fun, throw in Empower Spell + Easy Metamagic, or just Extra Turning to get it out of Divine Metamagic instead. Another fun trick is to take Energy Substitution (sonic) and Born of Three Thunders (requires Energy Sub). Both have +0 spell level adjustment. Now, at your option, all of your energy spells can deal 50/50 Sonic/Electricity damage, and they Stun anyone they damage, and they knock Prone anyone who is Stunned. (Each gets a save). It has the annoying side effect of making the caster (you) Dazed for one round after you cast. But that's easy enough to get around with some planning - you just have to find a way to be immune to Mind Affecting effects. Nymph touched will do it for +1 LA. There are also various spells, items, and PrC's that can do it. Reach Spell turns spells into ranged touch attacks, not rays. All rays are ranged touch attacks, but not all ranged touch attacks are rays. Split Ray does not apply to spells altered by Reach Spell (or Divine Reach, or another such ability). |
| ShneekeyTheLost09-20-06, 06:12 PM | Empowered Enervation? Maybe toss in Twin Ray for extra goodiness? |
| Lafing Cat09-20-06, 06:28 PM | I do not believe so. There is no "variable numeric effects" to empower. Yes, I know there is a dice role involved, but I would think the dispel check would be similar to a touch attack for the purposes of determining whether or not empower applies (i.e. you don't get 150% of your attack roll for scorching ray). To answer the topic, I've been playing in a (sadly) core-only game as a halfling illusionist; I frequently use empower on mirror image with my 4th level slot instead of greater invisiblity. Actually, Dispel Magic *does* benefit from Empower, but not in the way most people want it to. You are correct in that the Dispel Check isn't affected. HOWEVER! Dispel Magic suppresses magic items for 1d4 rounds. An Empowered Dispel Magic would suppress a magic item for (1d4)*1.5 rounds. Everyone always misses this. |
| Bill Bisco: Average Adventurer09-20-06, 07:35 PM | Reach Spell turns spells into ranged touch attacks, not rays. All rays are ranged touch attacks, but not all ranged touch attacks are rays. Split Ray does not apply to spells altered by Reach Spell (or Divine Reach, or another such ability). Actually it does turn them into rays. I can confirm this since I asked custserv Myself. :D |
| Vipren09-20-06, 07:45 PM | I pulled this one on a friend of mine in a wizards duel. First round, win init and cast a Sudden Empowered Sudden Maximized Time Stop , extended from a Greater Metamagic rod. rolled nice on the d4 for the 12 instead of 10 rounds and I was sitting pretty. Kinda ****** him off tho. |
| nerf_ninja09-20-06, 08:49 PM | ps: Do you benefit from empowering dispel ?:confused: No. Skill checks, level checks, attribute checks, opposed rolls, etc., are not affected by Empower. |
| beestje09-21-06, 02:59 PM | Quill blast in Complete divine, creatures around the caster get hit by a number of one or more (dependend on size of the creature) d6 quill and every quill deals one d6 damage. Hence your empower has double effect. Cheers, Beestje |
| doobiusPortugal09-21-06, 03:52 PM | Quill blast in Complete divine, creatures around the caster get hit by a number of one or more (dependend on size of the creature) d6 quill and every quill deals one d6 damage. Hence your empower has double effect. Cheers, Beestje The spell was updated in Spell Compendium... not as powerfull as it was, and no double-empowering effects, now... |