Post/Author/DateTime	Post
beezly 03-21-06, 04:43 PM	Hey, I was wondering, what did you guys think was the best way to arrange warmage stats for LG? I'm going to be human and I want my feats to be PBS and Precise shot, and I don't plan on going the arcane desciple route for more spells known. I'm also going to be in Bissel, if that matters. Thanks again, Adam
Gavinfoxx 03-21-06, 04:48 PM	Out of curiosity, why are you choosing to be a warmage? Just interested in that... the theme of 'armored fighter-mage that uses swords and spells in combat' is better optimized with choices other than using Warmage, for example...
UMiskatonic 03-21-06, 05:01 PM	I'd start with Str 10, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 15 and push one of the 10s to 12, your choice. You don't need rock-star charisma if you focus on orbs and rays, just enough for bonus spells. Remember to buy a MW bow when you can afford it, that will help you get through those all-in-one day mods after your spells are running low, or when everyone has horrible SR. With craft arms and armor, you can actually make very solid armor for yourself, and nifty weapons for your friends. I recommend specialty ammo (arrows, mostly) and javelins of lightning. And, of course, metamagic feats are pure gold for spontaneous casters. Except, of course, energy substitution. Warmages should be slapped if they take that one, they have access to thier entire spell list already.
allenchan 03-21-06, 05:12 PM	I'd start with Str 10, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 15 and push one of the 10s to 12, your choice. You don't need rock-star charisma if you focus on orbs and rays, just enough for bonus spells. Remember to buy a MW bow when you can afford it, that will help you get through those all-in-one day mods after your spells are running low, or when everyone has horrible SR. First, I've never seen a warmage run out of spells to be honest. Second, they have spells that ignore SR. Third, you want a good Int because it does extra damage (Extra Edge is a good choice, too). I've seen Warmages doing 1d3+12 with a 0th level spell--ouch! I'd dump strength. Con doesnt have to be important, depending on your party. Hopefully, they'll be dead before they can get around back to where you're hiding. I'm not sure about LG, but if you an get Floating Disk, Greater. Do it! It'll let you fly high above the fray.
JosephKell 03-21-06, 05:45 PM	Warmages are tricky. You can't dump Strength too much as you have to support the weight of a light shield and armor (and later Full-Plate via Battle Caster). Dex is necessary for those Ranged Touch Attacks. Con is always necessary. Especially since things target the PC that damages them the most! While a Fighter can technically deal more damage per day than a Warmage (Fighters don't have a "swings per day" limit), Warmages can just do a lot more with less effort. Int, you can't ignore the Warmage's Edge. When I DM you won't believe how many times a monster is dropped to 1-3 hp (or even disabled at 0). So it helps. Look at the Extra Edge feat. When you consider taking a feat to increase damage, Extra Edge is +1 Damage and +1 per 4 Warmage levels. Since you are probably taking it at level 6, compare that to those specialization feats in the Complete Arcane. (Unless Ranged Specialization applies to each ray seperately, then +2 damage to each Scorching ray is awesome, but you could still take both). Wisdom, I think this is the primary dump stat. Charisma increases your save DC. I recommend Str 10, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 15 2 + 6 + 6 + 6 + 0 + 8 (28) Another option is Grey Elf (S 8, D 16, C 12, I 16, W 8, C 15), remember, Int applies to all spells. I think the first +2 stat item you buy should be a Headband of Intellect, by the time you can afford/buy a +4 item when you get access, you won't have to sell your item for half price to buy the better one.
UMiskatonic 03-21-06, 05:53 PM	I've seen spells run out. It usually only happens in two-rounders and battle interactives, but it does happen. I put the stats the way they are because I'm looking toward the mid-level game. At 6th level, the difference between 6d6, and 6d6+2 isn't a big deal in my opinion. I'd much rather have 12 more hit points, and a +2 to my Fort save. I know that others disagree. At low level, the warmage edge is much more important. You may want to increase INT to compensate. You can safely dump WIS, especially if you'll be taking a strong will prestige class. Taking UMD cross-class isn't a bad idea. With the synergy bonuses and a good CHA, it will pay off around level 9, when you're really feeling the shortcomings of the warmage spell list.
solbergb 03-21-06, 06:53 PM	Here's the usual arrays: Default: Str 8/dex14/con14/int14/wis8/cha16 str 10/dex14/con14/int14/wis8/cha15 str 12/dex14/con14/int14/wis8/cha14 You're trading off spell DC's for carrying capacity. Some bleed points off of intelligence, dex or con instead of cha. Frankly, a str 8 character can wear medium armor, spiked gauntlet, crossbow and buckler already, and tenser's disk covers any need to carry backpack/bedroll/crap like that. The only reason to go higher str in my mind is to stay at light load without going for lighter armor class. My own warmage is the str 8/cha 16 version, and because I really don't value AC that much, he's running around in leather armor and a buckler, with the idea to get mithril someday if he finds any. Cha provides: DC's and bonus spells Int provides: extra damage+skills. (matters more in low levels) Dex provides: ray accuracy, initiative, reflex save Con provides: hitpoints and fort save. All of these are highly important, although relative importance shifts a bit as you level. All str provides is extra carrying capacity that normally only matters if you are trying to stay in light load, because a warmage in melee is a dead warmage. The major variant is the Arcane Disciple, which has to find room for wisdom in the build: str 8, dex 14 con 14 int 12 wis 14 cha 14 That's probably the most common build, but you can shuffle the "12" around if you wish. It is VERY hard to dump dex on a warmage that must play from levels 1-5 - the majority of your significant offense in those levels is rays. The pressure goes off as area spells enter the arsenal and BAB rises, but even then, you still like dex for the reflex saves and init bumps. Warmages are so fragile that a high con is pretty important. You don't have false life to keep your 10 con grey elf alive, nor do you have mobility to stay out of trouble, miss-chance spells to decoy attacks, etc. For statbump items, my order would be: Con, Charisma, Dexterity, Intelligence, but this is mostly a matter of taste. They all help.
beezly 03-21-06, 08:24 PM	Thanks everyone for all your help. Out of curiosity, why are you choosing to be a warmage? Just interested in that... the theme of 'armored fighter-mage that uses swords and spells in combat' is better optimized with choices other than using Warmage, for example... I want to be a warmage because it fit what I wanted out of a character in a few ways: -I wanted a character with high intelligence and high charisma (with a social skill maxed) -I wanted to be able to be an effective damage dealer in every combat I encountered -I wanted to be a magic user, so as not to be dependant upon gear, and by personal choice. So, I decided to be a warmage.
DM_Dracophile 03-21-06, 09:42 PM	Just a point of curiousity; Why the push for a higher Dex in so many Warmage builds? It seems like a logical progression to get Battle Caster and Heavy Armor Proficiency (or even a dip into Fighter or the like) post 8th level. Then you have far superior AC, but that higher Dex gets partially or fully negated, depending on armor type.
UMiskatonic 03-21-06, 09:50 PM	Dex does more than raise your armor class. It helps your reflex save, your initiative modifier, and helps you aim ranged touch attacks, a significant part of your arsenal. As far as I'm concerned, the bonus to AC is secondary, and not really all that important.
solbergb 03-22-06, 01:14 PM	Yeah. The AC is irrelevant. You want dex to hit things with rays (most important), higher init (next most important) and to cut down damage a little from enemy area effects by better reflex saves (next most important). Its impact on your dexterity is meaningless. Also, seriously, you have to get to level 9 before you can do heavy armor anyway AND doing so costs a precious feat (and actually two, since battlecaster doesn't give proficiency). Should you want heavy armor, the mithril plate option is there, taking no feats...and taking advantage of up to 16 dexterity. You don't normally want to waste feats on mere armor class and you REALLY don't want to dilute caster levels by multiclassing. Warmages are most powerful if they stick to their own class, or full casting PRC's which don't have massive feat requirements. There are more feats that enhance warmage offensive capabilities than you actually get, so each feat spent on something else lowers your offense with opportunity cost. Some PRC's pay it back eventually. Some don't, which is why not all PRC's are good choices for warmage.