Post/Author/DateTime	Post
duhtroll 07-06-05, 11:58 PM	Hi - I have a mystic theurge. Can I get some opinons on which summoning lists (monster vs. nature's ally) and which levels are the most advantageous for the given level? Thanks, -A
Rashomon 07-07-05, 12:00 AM	SNA can get you Storm Elementals faster than Summon Monster can. Those are great for artillery. With Rashemi Elemental Summoning, you can call up Orglashes, with 3/day Cones of Cold based on their HD as caster level.
Snow Savant 07-07-05, 12:22 AM	MyTh's who summon are really casting extremely suboptimal spells. And this is coming from someone who *loves* to summon via SNA/SM. Your hit to caster level is already suck-ass. And since casting summon spells are already just barely effective spell choices even with armed with feats like Aug. Summoning, R.E.S., Greenbond Summoning, Ashbound, etc. (which I doubt you have any of them) ... you are really casting spells that are following the Law of Diminishing Returns. Top-tier or efficient summoners need to be primary spellcaster classes. Nar Demonbinder is an exception, and that's for martial oriented ND's. In summation, if your Wiz 3 / Cleric 3 / MyTh 5 is casting Summon Monster IV spells against 11th level competition ... you're not going to accomplish very much beyond getting a simple flanker for your Rogue or a critter that will harass your enemies.
duhtroll 07-07-05, 12:24 AM	I only have a one-level dip from full arcane caster levels, so I'm hoping to find a summon monster spell that works well for its level.
Snow Savant 07-07-05, 12:29 AM	Let's see your build, Duhtroll. It sounds like your divine spellcasting pre-requirements are being ... somewhat houseruled.
obrysii 07-07-05, 12:46 AM	Summon Ice Beast is nice at 3rd level when you can summon a Huge Fiendish Ice Beast Centipede. It has something like 70hp...so it can be a pretty nice meat shield at that level.
Tytalus 07-07-05, 03:32 AM	It sounds like your divine spellcasting pre-requirements are being ... somewhat houseruled. It could be that he's using Precocious Apprentice to qualify for the arcane side. On topic: Simply put, it depends a lot on your feats. I assume you are using the standard summoning lists and not the free-for-all Dragon rules. With Greenbound Summoning, SNA can be extremely strong at low levels, competitive at mid levels, and rather poor at higher levels. With Rashemi Elemental Summoning, SNA really starts to shine in the late mid to high levels. Either makes SNA generally somewhat more powerful than their SM counterparts. SM is more flexible in a sense that you can summon templated creatures if that helps your current situation, making use of things like elemental resistances. Also, SM is not limited to animals. Without the aforementioned feats, SM is nice because it offers early access to the Celestial Bison, which is quite good for the required spell level.
Woodstock_01 07-07-05, 04:55 AM	Just go for Summon Undead (LM). With a Summon Undead V you could summon four huge (Red) Dragon Skeletons.
catharz 07-07-05, 05:09 AM	Just go for Summon Undead (LM). With a Summon Undead V you could summon four huge (Red) Dragon Skeletons. With summon undead I you can summon a Gloom skeleton. :P
blackbrrd 07-07-05, 08:15 AM	For healing, nothing beats summoning a Unicorn (summon natures ally 4), it heals something like 5d8+20 in 4 rounds and gives of a circle of prot vs evil for free. If you use a higher lvl spell slot you can summon more of them and as a lvl 6 spell they heal more than the heal spell (roughly 160 on average vs 150)
duhtroll 07-07-05, 10:02 AM	No houseruling involved. Wiz3/Clc1/MT Using Southern Magician from RoF allows this. So far everywhere I have checked (this board included) seems to confirm that it works. Any way you read that feat, it meets the prereq. -A Let's see your build, Duhtroll. It sounds like your divine spellcasting pre-requirements are being ... somewhat houseruled.