Best Two-Weapon Fighter! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Two-Weapon Fighter! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Moonchild
01-17-05, 12:12 PM Ok here is idea: I always liked playing Two-Weapon characters so I decided to make a best one

Human

feats and abilites:

1 Two-weapon fighting, Weapon Focus (of weapon of your choice), Dodge
2 Mobility
3 Spring Attack
4 Weapon Specialization
5
6 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Now you turn Tempest (Complete Adventurer p. 81)

7 Tempest defence +1
8 Ambidexterity (-3/-1)
9 tempest defence +2 Two-Weapon versatillity (Improved Critical Feat)
10 Ambidexterity (-2/+0)
11 Tempest defence +3, Two-Weapon Spring Attack

What next? Another Prestige Class or turn fighter to get some cool feats like greater weapon specilization?
Tenken
01-17-05, 12:15 PM Ok here is idea: I always liked playing Two-Weapon characters so I decided to make a best one
What next? Another Prestige Class or turn fighter to get some cool feats like greater weapon specilization?

Dervish from Complete Warrior.
Moonchild
01-17-05, 12:47 PM i don't like dervish, I don't know why people are so into it that much!
Chaos_Descending
01-17-05, 12:54 PM Cause it's uber?
Caelic
01-17-05, 01:02 PM Here's the problem:

You'll get a decent number of attacks with your build so far, sure, but you're not going to do all that much damage with each of them. Two weapon fighting works best when you have a source of extra damage you can deliver with each attack--which is why TWF is such a popular choice for Rogues; it lets them maximize their sneak attack.

Some suggestions:

1. Swashbuckler. Insightful Strike will add to your damage potential with each strike, and a high Intelligence is always good to have.

2. Chameleon. Five levels of Chameleon will give you a +4 insight bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls with each weapon.

I don't know if they improved the Tempest from the 3.0 version...I sincerely hope so.

Another thing to consider: your feats are working against one another. You've invested three feats into getting Spring Attack, but Spring Attack only lets you make one attack. Either you're standing and making a full attack, in which case your Spring Attack tree is doing nothing for you, or you're Spring Attacking, in which case your two weapon fighting feats are doing nothing for you.
Jeryg
01-17-05, 01:03 PM swashbuckler is pretty nifty for a TWF character but I would definitely try a gish build for the arcane strike and all the rest...

try something like:

fighter 4/wizard 3/Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 8

Bab 18
CL 13 (spells level 7)

13 feats total is enough to play with.

given, you will have slightly less HP than the average fighter, but casting 7th level spells is not something to be overlooked...
Caelic
01-17-05, 01:07 PM Jeryg,

Good point, but remember that Arcane Strike only works for one weapon...thus rendering it slightly less useful for two-weapon fighters.

If I were to go for a gish TWF, I'd most definitely go the Chameleon route. You'd only wind up with sixth level spells, but you'd ALSO have sixth level divine spells with which to buff yourself up at the start of the day, AND that nifty +4 insight bonus to your attacks. The bonus "floating" feat is also very nice for a TWF, letting you tweak your build to suit the circumstances.
EvilDuck
01-17-05, 01:19 PM I present for your approval, The Machine Gun Dagger Master!

Human Rogue 3/Ranger 2/Swashbuckler 3/Invisible Blade 5/Rokugan Ninja 7

Feats are as follows:
H: Weapon Focus(dagger)
1: Point Blank Shot
2: Weapon Finesse*
3: Track*, Far Shot
4: Two-Weapon Fighting*
6: Combat Reflexes
9: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
12: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
15: Double Hit
18: Improved Initiative

BAB: +18
SA: +10d6
Saves: +10/+13/+9
HD: 15d6+2d8+3d10

You flank, and everything dies!
rilem
01-17-05, 01:21 PM Lord, I despise the Chameleon so, but the insight bonus is nice to have.

Tempest has been improved, and its focus versatility finally makes those TwoWeapon styles from CW (high sword, low axe, etc.) worth taking.

But the other criticisms are right on. A Rogue or Scout into Dervish and Tempest would be good — Dervish is especially good for you, since you're using those dodge/mobility feats that, for a two-weapon fighter aren't good for anything BUT getting into Dervish and Tempest.

Other suggestions:

- Power Attack/Divine Might -- needs a good CHA and probably Oversized TWF from CAdv., but can up your damage dice nicely. Cleric (Domain=War) is a good option, as is Soldier of Light.

- Anything else that gives an insight bonus: Knight of the Middle Circle and Justicar of Taiia both give +2 Insight against one opponent for a small level investment, making them good choices.

- The Exotic Weapon Master's Exotic TWF trick -- Easier to get into than Tempest and lowers your penalty to -1 (which is totally offset by the Weapon Focus requirement).

ADDENDUM: Rokugan Ninja was once a good choice, but its popularity (and acceptance) have dwindled in recent months and I think it will now be totally co-opted by the CAdv Ninja. You won't be able to sell nearly as many DMs on it now. (How many builds you see with Monte's ranger in them these days?).
EvilDuck
01-17-05, 01:40 PM ADDENDUM: Rokugan Ninja was once a good choice, but its popularity (and acceptance) have dwindled in recent months and I think it will now be totally co-opted by the CAdv Ninja. You won't be able to sell nearly as many DMs on it now. (How many builds you see with Monte's ranger in them these days?).

It's an older build. As soon as I find another class that grants Good BAB and SA every other level, I can update the build. I hope R. Ninja doesn't totally fade away though, as I'm in love with speed of darkness...
Tenken
01-17-05, 01:52 PM i don't like dervish, I don't know why people are so into it that much!

In that case, take 3 levels of Swashbuckler, and at least 1 level of Rogue. Make both your weapon have the Collision enchantment (from XPH, +2enchantment that does +5 damage), as well as the Deadly Precision enchantment (from Miniatures Handbook, +2enchantment that does +2d6 sneak attack damage).

So, say you'll have ftr6/temp5/rog5/ninja1/swa3 by level 20. That'll give you +6d6 sneak attack, +int to damage, +5 for each weapon to damage. That's not counting damage from getting like Flaming enchantment, or even just having a +5 weapon. All in all, you should be pretty good with the build, plus with 6 levels of rogue, your skills will be decent. Saves might not be great though.
rilem
01-17-05, 01:56 PM Nightsong Enforcer (Cadv) comes close: Full BAB and 4d6 over 10 levels.

On speed of Darkness: There's always Bayushi deceiver, which gets the equivalent at 2nd level, I think. And it shares a requirement (Imp. Init) with Enforcer.
EvilDuck
01-17-05, 02:32 PM Nightsong Enforcer (Cadv) comes close: Full BAB and 4d6 over 10 levels.

On speed of Darkness: There's always Bayushi deceiver, which gets the equivalent at 2nd level, I think. And it shares a requirement (Imp. Init) with Enforcer.

Actually, I just ended up replacing the ninja levels with rogue levels. You take a couple of hits to BAB(which doesn't really matter that much), and your Will save goes to hell, but your skill points are much better and you get opportunist, which makes the build a lot better for epic(Sneak Attack of Opportunity, anyone?).
Sir Gummibaerchen
01-17-05, 02:47 PM My favourite TWF build is Fighter2/Swashbuckler3/Dervish10/Tempest5
Feats: TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Weapon Finesse (V), Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack (V), Combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike, Double Hit, Weapon Focus (Scimitar), Combat Expertise

Point-Buy 32: Str10, Dex16, Con14, Int16, Wis20, Cha10
Saves 13/9/9, Full BAB, 20d10 +40 HP.
Dervish is so cool, because you get +5 to hit/damage, treat your scimitar as a light weapon (so no penalties for TWF with Tempest), get two good saves, d10 HD, an AC bonus, faster movement, free spring attack, increased mobility, the ability to double the number of attacks in a single round and a few things I can't remember right now. It's so loaded with cool stuff, it makes you cry... Btw. with Tempest you can attack with both weapons in a spring attack!
rilem
01-17-05, 03:53 PM Actually, I just ended up replacing the ninja levels with rogue levels. You take a couple of hits to BAB(which doesn't really matter that much), and your Will save goes to hell, but your skill points are much better and you get opportunist, which makes the build a lot better for epic(Sneak Attack of Opportunity, anyone?).

Opportunist is nifty. And, as it happens, Nightsong Enforcer gets it at level 6. You will save still blows, but that's life.
Gravmyr
01-17-05, 04:50 PM Looks like you have a floating bonus feat at 6th from the level of fighter.
If you are already running the character as a low armor character, Combat Expertise and the Two Weapon Defense chain can help greatly -1 to attack to get +3 to +7 dodge bonus to AC. Let's not forget the Combat Reflexes - Karmic Strike combo added into that and might as well take Double Hit from Miniatures Handbook if you can. Working all that into a single build will take you 20 levels so it may not be acceptable, cutting Combat Expertise and the Two Weapon Defense chain and implimenting Improved Buckler Defense can help offset the AC problem without being as feat intensive.

So taking off from level 11 as you left it:
(Assuming Fighter 6/ Tempest 5) [Combat Expertise at F6]
12 Fighter 7 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
13 Fighter 8 Two-Weapon Defense*
14 Fighter 9
15 Fighter 10 Improved Two-Weapon Defense, Greater Two-Weapon Defense*
16 Fighter 11
17 Fighter 12 Combat Reflexes*
18 Fighter 13 Karmic Strike
19 Fighter 14 Double Hit*
20 Fighter 15 (Or any other full BAB though not necissary)

As outlined above you net a pretty nasty build but requires you to move to get the tempest bonuses and that assuming Tempest get full BAB nets you an attack round along the lines of seven attacks and a total of +6(+10 while moving and +7 vs one target) to ac with a +1 to hit while attacking defensively, get an AoO against anyone that hits you and all AoO allow an attack with your off hand too. This is before any stat mods which will probably be decent.
Moonchild
01-17-05, 07:17 PM Another thing to consider: your feats are working against one another. You've invested three feats into getting Spring Attack, but Spring Attack only lets you make one attack. Either you're standing and making a full attack, in which case your Spring Attack tree is doing nothing for you, or you're Spring Attacking, in which case your two weapon fighting feats are doing nothing for you.
They are prequisites of Tempest 3.5 in Complete Adventurer

Where did you find Swashbuckler so I can look it up?

What can a Chameleon posibly do in Two-Weapon fighter build? :confused:
PhaedrusXY
01-17-05, 09:15 PM The Swashbuckler is in Complete Warrior. At first level you get Weapon Finesse, and at 3rd level you get your Int mod to damage. To get the most out of TWF, you need as much extra damage per attack as possible.

I think the best TWF builds are definitely rogues (or at least dependant on Sneak Attack). Here is one I like. If you can't (or won't) use the Rokugan Ninja, just use rogue instead.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3034558&postcount=29
Caelic
01-17-05, 09:52 PM They are prequisites of Tempest 3.5 in Complete Adventurer

Inadequate justification from an optimization standpoint. Taking three feats you don't use just to get into a class is not optimal. Better by far to reconfigure the build so that you can use them--with the Dervish, for example, or Snow Tiger Berserker (that IS the one that allows a full attack with light weapons after a charge, yes? Heaven knows my FR knowledge is less than perfect.)

What can a Chameleon posibly do in Two-Weapon fighter build? :confused:

Well, let's see:

1. Give your weapons a +4 to hit and damage...including your off-hand weapon, which is significant given the Strength penalty for that hand.

2. Give you arcane spells to channel for Arcane Strike.

3. Give you divine spells with which to buff yourself up: Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon, and so forth.

4. Give you a floating feat you can use to add some flexibility to your feat-intensive fighting style. Maybe today you're facing giants, and need to avoid their power attack--hence, today you have the tactical feat from CW that gives you Elusive Foe. Maybe tomorrow, you'll be facing hordes of kobolds and actually want Whirlwind Attack. Heck, maybe you'll decide you want Skill Focus: Basketweaving tomorrow. Why not? You can always change it again the next day.
Moonchild
01-19-05, 10:29 AM point taken, but that's 'per day' ability right?
Caelic
01-19-05, 11:13 AM Well, yes, it is. At tenth level, you only get three aptitude focii per day.

Honestly, do you need more? That means one full set of first through sixth level clerical spells, one full set of first through sixth level arcane spells, and one +4 bonus to attacks and damage that lasts all day. And you can have any two of those running at the same time.

So: I wake up in the morning, cast a whole slew of clerical buffs, then switch my focus to Arcane and Combat for the rest of the day.

"Three times per day" is a lot more impressive when the abilities last 24 hours.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Moonchild 01-17-05, 12:12 PM	Ok here is idea: I always liked playing Two-Weapon characters so I decided to make a best one Human feats and abilites: 1 Two-weapon fighting, Weapon Focus (of weapon of your choice), Dodge 2 Mobility 3 Spring Attack 4 Weapon Specialization 5 6 Improved Two-Weapon Fighting Now you turn Tempest (Complete Adventurer p. 81) 7 Tempest defence +1 8 Ambidexterity (-3/-1) 9 tempest defence +2 Two-Weapon versatillity (Improved Critical Feat) 10 Ambidexterity (-2/+0) 11 Tempest defence +3, Two-Weapon Spring Attack What next? Another Prestige Class or turn fighter to get some cool feats like greater weapon specilization?
Tenken 01-17-05, 12:15 PM	Ok here is idea: I always liked playing Two-Weapon characters so I decided to make a best one What next? Another Prestige Class or turn fighter to get some cool feats like greater weapon specilization? Dervish from Complete Warrior.
Moonchild 01-17-05, 12:47 PM	i don't like dervish, I don't know why people are so into it that much!
Chaos_Descending 01-17-05, 12:54 PM	Cause it's uber?
Caelic 01-17-05, 01:02 PM	Here's the problem: You'll get a decent number of attacks with your build so far, sure, but you're not going to do all that much damage with each of them. Two weapon fighting works best when you have a source of extra damage you can deliver with each attack--which is why TWF is such a popular choice for Rogues; it lets them maximize their sneak attack. Some suggestions: 1. Swashbuckler. Insightful Strike will add to your damage potential with each strike, and a high Intelligence is always good to have. 2. Chameleon. Five levels of Chameleon will give you a +4 insight bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls with each weapon. I don't know if they improved the Tempest from the 3.0 version...I sincerely hope so. Another thing to consider: your feats are working against one another. You've invested three feats into getting Spring Attack, but Spring Attack only lets you make one attack. Either you're standing and making a full attack, in which case your Spring Attack tree is doing nothing for you, or you're Spring Attacking, in which case your two weapon fighting feats are doing nothing for you.
Jeryg 01-17-05, 01:03 PM	swashbuckler is pretty nifty for a TWF character but I would definitely try a gish build for the arcane strike and all the rest... try something like: fighter 4/wizard 3/Spellsword 5/Eldritch Knight 8 Bab 18 CL 13 (spells level 7) 13 feats total is enough to play with. given, you will have slightly less HP than the average fighter, but casting 7th level spells is not something to be overlooked...
Caelic 01-17-05, 01:07 PM	Jeryg, Good point, but remember that Arcane Strike only works for one weapon...thus rendering it slightly less useful for two-weapon fighters. If I were to go for a gish TWF, I'd most definitely go the Chameleon route. You'd only wind up with sixth level spells, but you'd ALSO have sixth level divine spells with which to buff yourself up at the start of the day, AND that nifty +4 insight bonus to your attacks. The bonus "floating" feat is also very nice for a TWF, letting you tweak your build to suit the circumstances.
EvilDuck 01-17-05, 01:19 PM	I present for your approval, The Machine Gun Dagger Master! Human Rogue 3/Ranger 2/Swashbuckler 3/Invisible Blade 5/Rokugan Ninja 7 Feats are as follows: H: Weapon Focus(dagger) 1: Point Blank Shot 2: Weapon Finesse* 3: Track, Far Shot 4: Two-Weapon Fighting 6: Combat Reflexes 9: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting 12: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting 15: Double Hit 18: Improved Initiative BAB: +18 SA: +10d6 Saves: +10/+13/+9 HD: 15d6+2d8+3d10 You flank, and everything dies!
rilem 01-17-05, 01:21 PM	Lord, I despise the Chameleon so, but the insight bonus is nice to have. Tempest has been improved, and its focus versatility finally makes those TwoWeapon styles from CW (high sword, low axe, etc.) worth taking. But the other criticisms are right on. A Rogue or Scout into Dervish and Tempest would be good — Dervish is especially good for you, since you're using those dodge/mobility feats that, for a two-weapon fighter aren't good for anything BUT getting into Dervish and Tempest. Other suggestions: - Power Attack/Divine Might -- needs a good CHA and probably Oversized TWF from CAdv., but can up your damage dice nicely. Cleric (Domain=War) is a good option, as is Soldier of Light. - Anything else that gives an insight bonus: Knight of the Middle Circle and Justicar of Taiia both give +2 Insight against one opponent for a small level investment, making them good choices. - The Exotic Weapon Master's Exotic TWF trick -- Easier to get into than Tempest and lowers your penalty to -1 (which is totally offset by the Weapon Focus requirement). ADDENDUM: Rokugan Ninja was once a good choice, but its popularity (and acceptance) have dwindled in recent months and I think it will now be totally co-opted by the CAdv Ninja. You won't be able to sell nearly as many DMs on it now. (How many builds you see with Monte's ranger in them these days?).
EvilDuck 01-17-05, 01:40 PM	ADDENDUM: Rokugan Ninja was once a good choice, but its popularity (and acceptance) have dwindled in recent months and I think it will now be totally co-opted by the CAdv Ninja. You won't be able to sell nearly as many DMs on it now. (How many builds you see with Monte's ranger in them these days?). It's an older build. As soon as I find another class that grants Good BAB and SA every other level, I can update the build. I hope R. Ninja doesn't totally fade away though, as I'm in love with speed of darkness...
Tenken 01-17-05, 01:52 PM	i don't like dervish, I don't know why people are so into it that much! In that case, take 3 levels of Swashbuckler, and at least 1 level of Rogue. Make both your weapon have the Collision enchantment (from XPH, +2enchantment that does +5 damage), as well as the Deadly Precision enchantment (from Miniatures Handbook, +2enchantment that does +2d6 sneak attack damage). So, say you'll have ftr6/temp5/rog5/ninja1/swa3 by level 20. That'll give you +6d6 sneak attack, +int to damage, +5 for each weapon to damage. That's not counting damage from getting like Flaming enchantment, or even just having a +5 weapon. All in all, you should be pretty good with the build, plus with 6 levels of rogue, your skills will be decent. Saves might not be great though.
rilem 01-17-05, 01:56 PM	Nightsong Enforcer (Cadv) comes close: Full BAB and 4d6 over 10 levels. On speed of Darkness: There's always Bayushi deceiver, which gets the equivalent at 2nd level, I think. And it shares a requirement (Imp. Init) with Enforcer.
EvilDuck 01-17-05, 02:32 PM	Nightsong Enforcer (Cadv) comes close: Full BAB and 4d6 over 10 levels. On speed of Darkness: There's always Bayushi deceiver, which gets the equivalent at 2nd level, I think. And it shares a requirement (Imp. Init) with Enforcer. Actually, I just ended up replacing the ninja levels with rogue levels. You take a couple of hits to BAB(which doesn't really matter that much), and your Will save goes to hell, but your skill points are much better and you get opportunist, which makes the build a lot better for epic(Sneak Attack of Opportunity, anyone?).
Sir Gummibaerchen 01-17-05, 02:47 PM	My favourite TWF build is Fighter2/Swashbuckler3/Dervish10/Tempest5 Feats: TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Weapon Finesse (V), Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack (V), Combat Reflexes, Karmic Strike, Double Hit, Weapon Focus (Scimitar), Combat Expertise Point-Buy 32: Str10, Dex16, Con14, Int16, Wis20, Cha10 Saves 13/9/9, Full BAB, 20d10 +40 HP. Dervish is so cool, because you get +5 to hit/damage, treat your scimitar as a light weapon (so no penalties for TWF with Tempest), get two good saves, d10 HD, an AC bonus, faster movement, free spring attack, increased mobility, the ability to double the number of attacks in a single round and a few things I can't remember right now. It's so loaded with cool stuff, it makes you cry... Btw. with Tempest you can attack with both weapons in a spring attack!
rilem 01-17-05, 03:53 PM	Actually, I just ended up replacing the ninja levels with rogue levels. You take a couple of hits to BAB(which doesn't really matter that much), and your Will save goes to hell, but your skill points are much better and you get opportunist, which makes the build a lot better for epic(Sneak Attack of Opportunity, anyone?). Opportunist is nifty. And, as it happens, Nightsong Enforcer gets it at level 6. You will save still blows, but that's life.
Gravmyr 01-17-05, 04:50 PM	Looks like you have a floating bonus feat at 6th from the level of fighter. If you are already running the character as a low armor character, Combat Expertise and the Two Weapon Defense chain can help greatly -1 to attack to get +3 to +7 dodge bonus to AC. Let's not forget the Combat Reflexes - Karmic Strike combo added into that and might as well take Double Hit from Miniatures Handbook if you can. Working all that into a single build will take you 20 levels so it may not be acceptable, cutting Combat Expertise and the Two Weapon Defense chain and implimenting Improved Buckler Defense can help offset the AC problem without being as feat intensive. So taking off from level 11 as you left it: (Assuming Fighter 6/ Tempest 5) [Combat Expertise at F6] 12 Fighter 7 Greater Two-Weapon Fighting 13 Fighter 8 Two-Weapon Defense* 14 Fighter 9 15 Fighter 10 Improved Two-Weapon Defense, Greater Two-Weapon Defense* 16 Fighter 11 17 Fighter 12 Combat Reflexes* 18 Fighter 13 Karmic Strike 19 Fighter 14 Double Hit* 20 Fighter 15 (Or any other full BAB though not necissary) As outlined above you net a pretty nasty build but requires you to move to get the tempest bonuses and that assuming Tempest get full BAB nets you an attack round along the lines of seven attacks and a total of +6(+10 while moving and +7 vs one target) to ac with a +1 to hit while attacking defensively, get an AoO against anyone that hits you and all AoO allow an attack with your off hand too. This is before any stat mods which will probably be decent.
Moonchild 01-17-05, 07:17 PM	Another thing to consider: your feats are working against one another. You've invested three feats into getting Spring Attack, but Spring Attack only lets you make one attack. Either you're standing and making a full attack, in which case your Spring Attack tree is doing nothing for you, or you're Spring Attacking, in which case your two weapon fighting feats are doing nothing for you. They are prequisites of Tempest 3.5 in Complete Adventurer Where did you find Swashbuckler so I can look it up? What can a Chameleon posibly do in Two-Weapon fighter build? :confused:
PhaedrusXY 01-17-05, 09:15 PM	The Swashbuckler is in Complete Warrior. At first level you get Weapon Finesse, and at 3rd level you get your Int mod to damage. To get the most out of TWF, you need as much extra damage per attack as possible. I think the best TWF builds are definitely rogues (or at least dependant on Sneak Attack). Here is one I like. If you can't (or won't) use the Rokugan Ninja, just use rogue instead. http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=3034558&postcount=29
Caelic 01-17-05, 09:52 PM	They are prequisites of Tempest 3.5 in Complete Adventurer Inadequate justification from an optimization standpoint. Taking three feats you don't use just to get into a class is not optimal. Better by far to reconfigure the build so that you can use them--with the Dervish, for example, or Snow Tiger Berserker (that IS the one that allows a full attack with light weapons after a charge, yes? Heaven knows my FR knowledge is less than perfect.) What can a Chameleon posibly do in Two-Weapon fighter build? :confused: Well, let's see: 1. Give your weapons a +4 to hit and damage...including your off-hand weapon, which is significant given the Strength penalty for that hand. 2. Give you arcane spells to channel for Arcane Strike. 3. Give you divine spells with which to buff yourself up: Magic Vestment, Greater Magic Weapon, and so forth. 4. Give you a floating feat you can use to add some flexibility to your feat-intensive fighting style. Maybe today you're facing giants, and need to avoid their power attack--hence, today you have the tactical feat from CW that gives you Elusive Foe. Maybe tomorrow, you'll be facing hordes of kobolds and actually want Whirlwind Attack. Heck, maybe you'll decide you want Skill Focus: Basketweaving tomorrow. Why not? You can always change it again the next day.
Moonchild 01-19-05, 10:29 AM	point taken, but that's 'per day' ability right?
Caelic 01-19-05, 11:13 AM	Well, yes, it is. At tenth level, you only get three aptitude focii per day. Honestly, do you need more? That means one full set of first through sixth level clerical spells, one full set of first through sixth level arcane spells, and one +4 bonus to attacks and damage that lasts all day. And you can have any two of those running at the same time. So: I wake up in the morning, cast a whole slew of clerical buffs, then switch my focus to Arcane and Combat for the rest of the day. "Three times per day" is a lot more impressive when the abilities last 24 hours.