| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| xvthreetwoonevx02-18-06, 09:02 PM | I've seen Mean_Liar's monk stuff, and it's great and all, but I think I want to play an unarmed fighter that has no levels in monk, for once. It'll probably rely heavily on feats, (Unarmed Strike, Improved Disarm, etc.), so i'm thinking i'll go Ftr4 to start off with. I'll either go Human for the feat or Dwarf so I can take Hammerblow and get 1.5xstr to damage. I may go for a Gold or Platinum gauntlet, which I beleive (I haven't looked at my faerun books in a while) will make me have to take an EWP to use it, and thusly qualify me for Exotic Weapon Master, which I can then take Uncanny blow, as I can probably convince my DM for Hammerblow to let it count as a 2-handed weapon. Other than that i'm not really sure where to go. A skeleton build: LE Human Ftr1-IUS, Stunning Fist, Improved Grapple Ftr2-Combat Expertise Stoneblessed1-Improved Disarm Stoneblessed2 Stoneblessed3 Ftr3-Hammerblow Ftr4-EWP:Heavy Gauntlet Streetfighter1 Streetfighter2-WF:Heavy Gauntlet EWM1-Uncanny Blow Streetfighter3 Streetfighter4-Extra Stunning Streetfighter5 Human Paragon1 Human Paragon2-Pain Touch, Improved Trip Human Paragon3-Ability Boost (STR+2) ??? I don't know where to go after that, and honestly that build looks like crap, even to me. I'm not sure how to make an unarmed guy without resorting to monk, and I would prefer to avoid monk if at all possible. Any suggestions are great, especially for the last couple levels. Streetfighter is in CV, and gives initiative boosts, the ability to make a fort save to halve damage, and Evasion. Thanks. |
| NoldorForce02-18-06, 09:14 PM | Two questions: What is it that you'd prefer to avoid about the monk? More to the point, how do these gauntlets qualify as unarmed attacks? |
| xvthreetwoonevx02-18-06, 09:24 PM | I dunno, it just seems to me like everybody that wants to punch stuff is a monk, and probably with good reason. I just wanted to try and bend the norms and see if I could show my fellow players that you can be a strong unarmed fighter without wearing cloth and meditating all the time. The SRD says: Gauntlet: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes. A strike with a gauntlet is otherwise considered an unarmed attack. The cost and weight given are for a single gauntlet. Medium and heavy armors (except breastplate) come with gauntlets. If I remember correctly, in some Faerun book, there was a rule for making weapons out of Gold or Platinum that increased there damage die by one size, but made you have to take an EWP to use them. If i'm just hallucinating there, that's fine, i'll just dump the EWM, but I vivdly remember reading about them at some point. |
| Kurama Youko02-18-06, 09:33 PM | there is a brawler class in one of the dragon mags that would hit the spot for you. also i saw another bare handed fighter somewhere else to, in a book i think that did the same thing. i think it was in that new book that is a composite of all the dragon magazine stuff |
| NoldorForce02-18-06, 09:39 PM | The SRD says: Gauntlet: This metal glove lets you deal lethal damage rather than nonlethal damage with unarmed strikes.Silly me, not remembering THAT one... My suggestion would be to go Changeling->Warshaper, morph into dracha form (draconic bipeds, with wings and tails), and gain a couple of natural attacks. That would be: -tail slap, -claw (as the other hand has a gauntlet), -two wing buffets, -bite, and -gore. These are all supported by dracha anatomy. Monk would help a slight bit, but ONLY to route the unarmed attacks to your feet so you'd get two claw attacks instead of one (or none, if you do manage to wield the gauntlet two-handed). Warshaper is an excellent class. Note: Yes, I've mentioned the unintended ease of achieving Warshaper by being a changeling before. It's still an interesting choice. |
| SkaIsStillCool02-18-06, 09:42 PM | If you are interested in 3rd party material, there is a feat called Greater Unarmed Strike in the Quintessential Fighter II: Advanced Tactics that advances your unarmed damage by one die type. It can also be taken multiple times. Seems like a pretty good feat for an unarmed non-monk character. |
| xvthreetwoonevx02-18-06, 09:45 PM | Changelings can only morph into humanoid forms, which means no natural attacks for me, unless there's a humanoid with a slam attack or something. But warshaper does look nice for the ability boosts, perhaps changeling instead of human, then? I beleive changelings still qualify for human paragon, don't they, because I know they qualify for Chameleon and that says human only. So i'll probably fill out the last 3 levels with warshaper, is there any other way that I could get a Draconic form with a bunch of natural attacks and still use my gauntlets/hammerblow? Even if I change my type I still qualify as a Dwarf from Stoneblessed so I can keep using Hammerblow, which is nice. Is there any way to avoid having to use polymorph for that? I'd personally rather like to not have to constantly bug the party wizard to buff me, or buy a gigantically expensive item of polymorph. Third-Party sources probably aren't the best idea, i'm already stretching the rules a little by having Hammerblow make it a 2-handed weapon. Also my unarmed damage die will probably be miserable any way I stretch it, i'll probably be relying mostly on STR bonus for damage. In response to the post a couple back that I misread, the specific things I wanted to avoid about the monk were a) The Flavor, b) The MAD (Which I know i've kind of put back in by taking Stunning Fist, but really the only stats I need now are STR and WIS), and c) The poor BAB. Now, if there's a PrC that increases unarmed damage that has full BAB and doesn't have that monk-y flavor, by all means tell me, that'd be awesome, but so far i've not managed to find one. |
| X-Codes02-18-06, 10:29 PM | Stunning Fist has a BAB pre-requisite of +8. If you want this ability at all before 8th level then you must take at least one level of Monk. If you want to be an unarmed fighter, some measure of Monk levels is simply optimal. Also, that feat that increaces unarmed damage is TERRIBLE. Taking it once would make a gauntlet do 1d6 damage instead of 1d4. Thats +1 damage. Weapon Spec is better, and thats pretty bad. EDIT: Also, Chameleon is not Human only, it's for Humans or Dopplegangers, and Changelings are supposed to be the halfbreed of the two, therefore it only makes sense to allow them. |
| xvthreetwoonevx02-18-06, 10:35 PM | Ahh, I didn't see the pre-req before 8th...Perhaps 1 level of monk will do me good, I won't be losing much and I still don't have to walk around in robes with just 1 level. Perhaps Monk 2 will do some good, I'll have both Evasion from monk, a save bump, and Uncanny Dodge from streetfighter, plus Combat Reflexes ain't too terrible of a feat either way. Though I don't want to be majorly monk, two levels isn't much of a devotion to it. Not sure what levels I should dump for it, maybe I can get rid of two levels of fighter? Though, if I go changeling with that, i'll be short a few feats. Any suggestions on what to dump? Edit:Hmmm...that's a tough choice then...maybe i'll get rid of Human Paragon altogether then, to make room for the Monk levels, if I can't convince my DM to let Changelings take it. |
| NoldorForce02-18-06, 11:08 PM | Changelings can only morph into humanoid forms, which means no natural attacks for me, unless there's a humanoid with a slam attack or something.Actually, the changeling Minor Change Shape ability is based off disguise self, and has no restrictions on creature type. This, however, is irrelevant, as dracha are humanoids anyway (humanoids of Serran, that is...) A picture is available here (http://www.montecook.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?mc_diary_35). Note the wings, tail, and horns. Dracha, as is, don't gain such natural attacks. But this is again irrelevant; the Morphic Weapons ability of Warshaper allows you to gain natural weapons on the fly. Look at the picture and imagine what you will. Remember, morphing into a dracha is only done to offer some physiological basis for the collection of natural weapons you'd gain. Note: Chameleon, as written, was just for humans and dopplegangers. But there's a small note in it that explicitly mentions that changelings can take it. A similar situation occured with Able Learner (a prerequisite for Chameleon). Other Note: There's a reason I call Warshaper 'Changeling Paragon'. |
| xvthreetwoonevx02-18-06, 11:17 PM | I'm looking at warshaper, and the Morphic Weapons entry...so this means, theoretically, that if one was large enough one could use 80 move actions to grow 80 tentacles, and have no limit on the duration for which they kept them? Sweeeet. I'm thinkin' i'll take Warshaper ASAP now, then go Streetfighter afterward, take one of monk and two of fighter so I can end up with the same feats. Any other suggestions? |
| Meangenes602-18-06, 11:24 PM | Try this: Race: Goliath (buy off +1 LA ASAP) Levels 1-6: Barbarian (bear totem from unearthed arcana) Take feats Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike, and Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike). Take Goliath substitution level for first level (makes you large-sized while raging). You get bonus feats Great Fortitude and Improved Grapple and +4 to grapple while raging, while giving up trapfinding and uncanny dodge. So while raging, you will have +12 to grapple (+4 from feat, +4 while raging, and +4 from size) without including BAB or strength bonuses (which as a raging Goliath will be HUGE). Levels 7-11:Shou Disciple (from unapproachable east) Take feat Alertness at 9th level and take Weapon SPecialization (Unarmed Strike) and Power Attack as your bonus feats. You get 2d6 unarmed strike damage (3d6 as large and raging) and flurry of blows (as a 5th level monk). Levels 12-20: Initiate of the Draconic Mysteries (from Draconomicon) Take any feats you want at this point (But Improved critical (Unarmed Strikes) is a gimme). By 20th level, you get a 2-step increase in damage die (so 2d10 normally and 3d10 while raging). You can also choose to make your unarmed attacks as slashing damage, and they are treated as magic weapons. You also get Evasion, Frightful Presence, Timeless body, Darkvision, and TRIPLE DAMAGE on a critical hit. Let's recap: BAB +17, Fort:16, Ref: 13, Will:10 Full Attack at 16/16/11/6/1 for 2d10 or 3d10 with triple damage on a crit. Or you can grapple with a +28 before adding in strength. You lose out on a monk's movement, SR, and the ability to get through adamantine and lawful damage reduction. But you get darkvision, frightful presence, attacking with a slashing weapon, and you can do this all in light armor! |
| xvthreetwoonevx02-18-06, 11:39 PM | I like that one, any way to fit in Stoneblessed levels so I can get Hammerblow? Or, is it really necessary with that 3d10 points? |
| Meangenes602-19-06, 12:11 AM | I like that one, any way to fit in Stoneblessed levels so I can get Hammerblow? Or, is it really necessary with that 3d10 points? You need all levels as written to get the 3d10 and triple damage on a crit. |
| xvthreetwoonevx02-19-06, 12:20 AM | Hmm...What about dumping the initiate, and instead going Stoneblessed3/Bear Warrior1/Warshaper3/EWM1/something else1? We'd go down to 3d6 a pop, but gain reach, an extra +4 str and con, and access to Hammerblow and Uncanny Blow. |
| Mist of Shadows02-19-06, 12:25 AM | Take a monks belt and change it to a normal looking belt. Have your character not tell the rest of the people. :) You have a monks start on the damage for unarmed as well as ac. Next take the Gauntlets of the Talon ( relic in complete divine page 97 that increases monk stuff stacks with the monk's belt.) Just need to worship bahamet. |
| Pinky's brain02-19-06, 12:31 AM | If you want to get cheezy you can always be a ranged unarmed fighter ;) (Through the blood wind spell from the spell compendium.) Don't forget the snow tiger berserker feat BTW. |
| Vaelan02-19-06, 12:33 AM | I'm looking at warshaper, and the Morphic Weapons entry...so this means, theoretically, that if one was large enough one could use 80 move actions to grow 80 tentacles, and have no limit on the duration for which they kept them? No. The ability never states that you are allowed more than one weapon. Further, it makes several references to changing which weapon is granted to you by Morphic Weapons. If you could simply grow both, they wouldn't bother to talk about changing weapons. Lastly, use some common sense. As for Shou Disciple, a Monk under another name is still a Monk. |
| Meangenes602-19-06, 12:54 AM | Hmm...What about dumping the initiate, and instead going Stoneblessed3/Bear Warrior1/Warshaper3/EWM1/something else1? We'd go down to 3d6 a pop, but gain reach, an extra +4 str and con, and access to Hammerblow and Uncanny Blow. You seem to have a hard-on for Hammerblow, huh? :) Anyway, if you stick with Initiate and go into epic levels, the 10th level of Initiate grants the ability to Shapechange (as the spell) into a huge dragon. So you can then do 4d10 damage, plus you can fly and have a breath weapon. :) |
| xvthreetwoonevx02-19-06, 01:00 AM | Haha, well, just checking. And as for Shou, yeah, it is really monk-y, i'd prefer not to go that route if at all possible. Since i'm avoiding monk stuff i'm probably going to rely mostly on STR for damage, which is why i'm taking levels in Stoneblessed. Though looking through Races of Eberron, I see the Racial Emulation feat here, so turns out I may not need those three levels. If i'm going based off of my first build, the stuff I want to include: Hammerblow (2-handed unarmed strikes=teh rawxx0r) Improved Grapple, Disarm, (Feint for Streetfighter) Warshaper Exotic Weapon Master (Uncanny Blow) Streetfighter PrC (if that's a terrible option i'm not tremendously attached to it, but it just seems cool flavorwise) So if i'm just going Warshaper/Streetfighter/EWM, i've still got a bunch of levels free. Preferably without Shou Disciple, 'cause that does seem too monkish for my tastes, any suggestions on how to fill the build out? Draconic Mysteries is pretty cool, but i'm not really that much into focusing my character around dragons, too many in my group have been doing that lately (We just got RotD :-p). I'm really lookin' for the streetfighter-type flavor, which is why i'm including the PrC. Unarmedness seems to mesh really well with that kind of flavor, that's mainly why i'm going this route, but if anyone thinks of stuff that's more fitting i'm open to suggestions. |
| Pinky's brain02-19-06, 01:11 AM | Snow tiger berserker frostrager. Frostrager doesn't have the flavour of a monk but still provides some similar benefits. |
| xvthreetwoonevx02-19-06, 01:38 AM | Frostrager looks excellent! The rage bumps look pretty sweet for a streetfighter, and i'd nearly forgotten about snow tiger berserker. The revised build: CE Changeling (LE)Monk 1-Improved Unarmed Strike, Racial Emulation, Stunning Fist Ftr1-Combat Expertise (CE)Ftr2-Hammer Fist, Improved Feint Barbarian1 Barbarian2 Warshaper1-Snow Tiger Berserker Warshaper2 Warshaper3 Streetfighter1-EWP: Heavy Gauntlets Streetfighter2 Streetfighter3 Streetfighter4-WF:Heavy Gauntlets EWM1-Uncanny Blow Frostrager1-Improved Grapple Frostrager2 Frostrager3 Frostrager4-Improved Disarm Frostrager5 Hmm...that looks like a muc better build than I started off with, and still kept that streetfighter-ey flavor. Thanks for all your help, guys! |
| deusxmachina02-19-06, 04:17 PM | No. The ability never states that you are allowed more than one weapon. Further, it makes several references to changing which weapon is granted to you by Morphic Weapons. If you could simply grow both, they wouldn't bother to talk about changing weapons. Lastly, use some common sense. The Warshaper description has the sentence about "it's not until you see a soldier grow a tentacle and fangs that you know you've met a Warshaper." It's been argued before, but having more than one weapon seems perfectly reasonable. A druid can wildshape and get multiple attacks, so why not. Having 80 weapons is silly, but having non-magical claws on each hand for two melee attacks a round (natural attacks vs. BAB attacks) is hardly game-breaking. Claw/Claw/Bite for three attacks might start being a little much if the guy has uber strength, but it depends on the game, and those attacks aren't going to have elemental damage or anything from them, either. Unless a PC has other things going for him like huge strength or simply some plain ol' cheese, up to three or even five (like a tiger with rake) natural attacks like this doesn't seem out of line when compared to a fighter with a magical great sword, power attack, and two or three attacks per round. For the OP, monks are good unarmed because they are that way for "free," but a fighter with a couple feats is on par and can easily surpass them. Most fighters aren't all that great unarmed simply because they aren't built that way. You're a Goliath, so Enlarge won't work on you, but you already get the +4 grapple for size, so consider slapping on some armor spikes and hugging people a lot. There's also Psychic Warrior. Low-level powers include Expansion for size and more strength, and a power that adds +4 to your grapple. If it wasn't mentioned already, a monk using gauntlets is only going to do gauntlet base damage on each hit, not his monk unarmed damage. DM's call, I guess, but that's the usual way I've seen the rule read as. Unless you want the other monk abilities, I'd just go with fighter or barbarian or similar levels in place of those. |
| Khazra Reborn02-19-06, 05:19 PM | The pugilist is an unarmoured fighter in dragon magasine and possibly the best option available. Also, that feat that increaces unarmed damage is TERRIBLE. Taking it once would make a gauntlet do 1d6 damage instead of 1d4. Thats +1 damage. Weapon Spec is better, and thats pretty bad. Whilst this is true, you have ALOT of feats as a fighter. You get some big leaps, eg. 3rd time you take it you go from D8 to 2D6. I dont know the feat but assuming it only requires improved unarmed strike you can reach this stage by human fighter2 :eek: A few options with fighter. EWP heavy gauntlet will up 1 damage die catergory.. 8 levels in savage from darksun (a less monkey alternative to IotDM) adds another 2 die upgrades. You could use claws. As a human the easiest way is willing deformity and claws from BoVD, attainable at level 1. The claws are 1D6 IIRC. Lastly, doesnt a monks belt give you damage as a 5th level monk? |
| xvthreetwoonevx02-19-06, 05:32 PM | I'd go Pugilist, but I don't think i'll be playing somebody unarmored, just unarmed. There's something very satisfying about clanking up to someone in a fullplate and hammerblowing them into a wall. :) However, I will look into it, do you know which number of dragon it is? Are there ways to get natural attacks that aren't based around hands? I'm making all attempts to use Hammer Fist just because it's SO COOL, and having 2xstr to unarmed strike can get pretty nasty. Perhaps a 2-level dip in Totemist, so I can Totem bind Threefold Mask of the Chimera and get Bite, Bite, Gore, Slam/whatever (from warshaper), Unarmed? Then, with Snow Tiger Berserker I can full attack with all of that at the end of a charge, and use Racial Emulation to become a kobold for the Dragonblood subtype, warshaper for claws, and thusly qualify for Rapidstrike/Imp. Rapidstrike? If I can manage to fit Quick Change in there, I could charge, rapidstrike, then shift into a dwarf and start Hammerblowing with 2xStr to damage. This could get interesting, i'll work on planning out a build for it... Edit:Teh Build CE Changeling 1.Ftr1-IUS, Racial Emulation 2.Ftr2-EWP:Heavy Gauntlets 3.Ftr3-WF:Natural Attack (fists) 4.Ftr4-WF:Heavy Gauntlets 5.Bbn1(Bear Totem Variant, Whirling Frenzy Rage Variant, Toughness) 6.Totemist1-Power Attack 7.Totemist2 (Totem Bind:Threefold Mask of the Chimera) 8.Warshaper1 9.Warshaper2-Frozen Berserker 10.Warshaper3 11.Exotic Weapon Master1-Uncanny Blow 12.Frostrager1-Snow Tiger Berserker 13.Frostrager2 14.Frostrager3 15.Frostrager4-Rapidstrike 16.Frostrager5 17.Thayan Gladiator1 18.ThuG2-Imp. Rapidstrike 19.ThuG3 20.ThuG4. I end up with, on a full attack: Bite, Bite, Bite, Bite, Bite, Bite, Gore, Slam, Unarmed+Cold, Unarmed+Cold (one-two punch), Unarmed+Cold(Whirling Frenzy) Unarmed+Cold(Natural Weapon Focus) Rend on a charge, then the following round draw my heavy gauntlets and weild 2-handed for 2x Strength on an Uncanny Blow Unarmed Strike+Cold, One-two punching, Whirling Frenzying, and I can still rend. Pretty sweet if I do say so myself. Thanks for all of your help, guys. |
| Xaktsaroth02-19-06, 07:14 PM | I'd recommend the BullyBasher gauntlets from WoL. Aside for getting some decent bonuses to unarmed attacks, you also get bigger bonuses if your outnumbered, which is usually the case, and MORE bonuses if your fighting alone. Plus, the gauntlets have an at will ability to gain some of the bonuses of increasing in size, plus the ability to grapple HUGE!! creatures, plus bonuses to grapple checks as well. Oh, and I forgot to mention the whole, auto-stabilize once a day, chain-lightning punch and other fun stuff. BullBasher's rock. :) |
| Caelic02-19-06, 07:20 PM | Strictly as written, Warshaper does allow as many Morphic Weapons as the character chooses to manifest. It does not, however, allow multiples of the same weapon; according to the ability, if the character already has a weapon of that type, it instead increases in damage by one size category. Now, some have argued that this means you could increase the damage of the weapon infinitely, but I think this is a pretty clear case where the "bonuses don't stack with themselves" rule comes into play. |
| Pinky's brain02-19-06, 07:49 PM | The magic effect rules rule out applying a single effect multiple times and gaining multiple benefits (I could elaborate further, but we have been over that ... I think it would be simpler if you simply said "no they don't" and just showing that there is no agreement about the RAW here to save us some time). Hmm, never noticed that the attack penalties from weapons of legacy don't apply to grapple checks ... yes this does make them a rather good weapon of legacy for grapplers, nice find Xaktsaroth. |
| BadCatMan02-19-06, 09:57 PM | Its Hammer Fist, not Hammer Blow. Heavy Weapons are from Magic of Faerun. A Heavy Gauntlet will do 1d4 damage instead of 1d3, hardly worth the cost of the feat, or the crafting costs. A large-sized or larger Heavy Gauntlet will do 1d6 or more damage however, but I'm not sure how you'd wear them. :) A humongous set of solid gold gauntlets would be awkward, but effective. You can (AFAICT) wield the Heavy Gauntlet two-handed anyway (you'd still need the Exotic Proficiency feat for EWM), so you won't need Hammer Fist, and thus don't need to be a Dwarf (or have Racial Emulation). |
| Xaktsaroth02-19-06, 10:04 PM | The magic effect rules rule out applying a single effect multiple times and gaining multiple benefits (I could elaborate further, but we have been over that ... I think it would be simpler if you simply said "no they don't" and just showing that there is no agreement about the RAW here to save us some time). Hmm, never noticed that the attack penalties from weapons of legacy don't apply to grapple checks ... yes this does make them a rather good weapon of legacy for grapplers, nice find Xaktsaroth. Glad to help. Been a fan of WoL for awhile now, and I'm trying to spread the awesomeness around. Thayan Gladiator could be an idea, as a monk's unarmed strike counts as both a natural and BAB weapon. For the low low price of 2 feats and some BAB, you get a few bonus feats and extra attacks with your natural weapon. :) |
| xvthreetwoonevx02-20-06, 12:28 AM | Its Hammer Fist, not Hammer Blow. Heavy Weapons are from Magic of Faerun. A Heavy Gauntlet will do 1d4 damage instead of 1d3, hardly worth the cost of the feat, or the crafting costs. A large-sized or larger Heavy Gauntlet will do 1d6 or more damage however, but I'm not sure how you'd wear them. :) A humongous set of solid gold gauntlets would be awkward, but effective. You can (AFAICT) wield the Heavy Gauntlet two-handed anyway (you'd still need the Exotic Proficiency feat for EWM), so you won't need Hammer Fist, and thus don't need to be a Dwarf (or have Racial Emulation). I know it's not worth a feat, but the reason I want it is to be able to get Uncanny Blow for an unarmed strike. I was unaware I can weild it two-handed, though I suppose it does say you can weild one-handed weapons two-handed. That certainly does free up some feats, i'll look over the build and see if I have enough open to fit in Streetfighter instead of Stoneblessed, just because I like the class. However, I still think i'm going to take Racial Emulation, so I can shift into a Kobold, get the Dragonblood subtype, and then be able to take Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike. Now, i'm not entirely sure on how natural attacks stack with normal attacks. If I have rapidstrike, can I make my normal +18/+13/+8/+3 unarmed, then make my bites as secondary natural attacks, using rapidstrike on the one bite I have it applied to it? If so, then I have a bunch of 2xStr attacks, and then a bunch of 1xStr natural attacks. Looks pretty sweet to me. |
| Madsvg02-20-06, 02:44 PM | I actually made a 20-lvl unarmed character the other day and it deals 5 3d8+11 each round, and it can move 70 feet in one round (walking speed!) and when he runs he moves something like 350 feet. he is a monk 6/barb 4/warshaper 5/reachrunner 5 shifter... I'm not completely sure, but could you change the size of your hands into large when you're a warshaper? in that case i think I deal 3d10+11 instead and he got a critical of 19-20, stunning, can rage twice per day, shift three times each day. he could gain +6 modifier to strength by doing that. the 5 attacks I was talking about is cause by flurry and got these modifiers: +27/+27/+22/+17/+12 btw he got AC: 44 |
| xvthreetwoonevx02-21-06, 01:19 AM | Well as-is i can move 40/round, have, without strength: +14/+14/+9/+9/+9/+9/+9/+9(rend if two of the three previous hit)/+9/+4/-1 on a charge, +8 AC when raging along with +4 str (albiet once per day), possibly more if I switch Stoneblessed with Thayan Gladiator, all with fairly high damage, then after charging I can do a bunch of attacks with 2xStr to them, but they all have pretty poor damage dice, which is rather fine. If I could fit Quickdraw in there I could start full attacking next round with 2xstr, otherwise i'll have to take an AoO to draw out my Large Heavy Gauntlets so I can get the 2xStr, which is a pity, but perhaps since I don't have to take Hammer Fist anymore i'll take quick draw instead. I have more attacks, but at less attack bonus than your guy, and I can only rage/whirling frenzy 1/day, but i can still dish out some pretty decent damage when not frenzying. And I have no monk levels. :) I'd take levels in Thayan Gladiator, but my feats are mostly locked up if I want to keep access to Rapidstrike. I don't have Champions of Ruin on me, so if it only takes a feat to qualify or gives bonus feats I may be able to squeeze it in. I'll be sure to look, though. Since we're discussing it, how do you tell if an ability from an item of legacy needs the Least, Lesser, or Greater Legacy feat to activate? I've scoured the entries and flipped through the book countless times but I can't seem to figure it out for the life of me. But the Bullybashers do look promising, if my DM lets me have Large Heavy ones, which isn't too much of a stretch. Thanks for all your help so far, guys. |
| Pinky's brain02-21-06, 01:39 AM | 5-10 least, 11-16 lesser, 17-20 greater ... you get the feat for free when you perform the ritual though. |
| Xaktsaroth02-21-06, 01:42 AM | Well as-is i can move 40/round, have, without strength: +14/+14/+9/+9/+9/+9/+9/+9(rend if two of the three previous hit)/+9/+4/-1 on a charge, +8 AC when raging along with +4 str (albiet once per day), possibly more if I switch Stoneblessed with Thayan Gladiator, all with fairly high damage, then after charging I can do a bunch of attacks with 2xStr to them, but they all have pretty poor damage dice, which is rather fine. If I could fit Quickdraw in there I could start full attacking next round with 2xstr, otherwise i'll have to take an AoO to draw out my Large Heavy Gauntlets so I can get the 2xStr, which is a pity, but perhaps since I don't have to take Hammer Fist anymore i'll take quick draw instead. I have more attacks, but at less attack bonus than your guy, and I can only rage/whirling frenzy 1/day, but i can still dish out some pretty decent damage when not frenzying. And I have no monk levels. :) I'd take levels in Thayan Gladiator, but my feats are mostly locked up if I want to keep access to Rapidstrike. I don't have Champions of Ruin on me, so if it only takes a feat to qualify or gives bonus feats I may be able to squeeze it in. I'll be sure to look, though. Since we're discussing it, how do you tell if an ability from an item of legacy needs the Least, Lesser, or Greater Legacy feat to activate? I've scoured the entries and flipped through the book countless times but I can't seem to figure it out for the life of me. But the Bullybashers do look promising, if my DM lets me have Large Heavy ones, which isn't too much of a stretch. Thanks for all your help so far, guys. When you do the rituals for the item, you gain the least, lesser and greater as BONUS feats. If you have the least feat, you can use the level abilities from 5th to 10th when you gain enough levels. If you have the lesser feat, you can use the level abilities from 11th to 16th when you gain enough levels. If you have the greater feat, you can use the level abilities from 17+ when you gain enough levels. THuG takes WF(natural attack) and Toughness to get in(with a BAB requirement, of course), and you get INA and Improved Crit. for free, but no bonus feats of your own choosing. Edit: Gah, beaten to the punch. :P |