Best undead for PC? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best undead for PC? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Traks
12-23-04, 04:23 AM In our game, my character have died and will come back as undead.
It is evil party, so no one really cares about that. I am wizard, so of course it would be preferable to not take many level adjustments.

Which undead type is best to adapt? Except that strange necropolitan or whatever. Lich seems ok, but he gets that stingy 4 lvl adjustment.
I liek spawn monsters, but being one of them means you have to have a master and that is evil GM fun.

So what can boards recommend to starting optimiser? :)
Oh yes, party level is around 16th.
The Fury
12-23-04, 12:57 PM Templates are stronger then Monster Class undead. Don't forget if you are a lich, your phylactery would come out of your starting cash. Lich is probably the way to go, as vampires have a lot of weaknesses. Wights make good sorcerors and fighters. Ghosts are complicated, but you could beat the living scheise out of the campaign until the DM sends some good ghostbusters against you.
Jeremymc
12-23-04, 01:23 PM Ghosts are amazing, but bad for LA. +5 template.

What is amazing about a ghost, however, is their ability to manifest the Telekinesis spell every 1-4 rounds. This is not to be sneezed at, as you can easily branch into the Master of the Unseen Hand, and kick some serious butt. Especialy if that TK is a supernatural ability, and not spell-like. Which means NO SR!.
catharz
12-23-04, 02:10 PM Ghosts are amazing, but bad for LA. +5 template.

What is amazing about a ghost, however, is their ability to manifest the Telekinesis spell every 1-4 rounds. This is not to be sneezed at, as you can easily branch into the Master of the Unseen Hand, and kick some serious butt. Especialy if that TK is a supernatural ability, and not spell-like. Which means NO SR!.

I completely agree, although I would try to use the WotC Savage Progression. Just take up to level 4 for Malevolance.
Tempest Stormwind
12-23-04, 02:24 PM I completely agree, although I would try to use the WotC Savage Progression. Just take up to level 4 for Malevolance.

Another vote for Ghost, particularily the Savage Progression version.

I had a minmax thing a while ago -- three of us, best twinkery we could use, vs the DM, best twinkery he could use in making a dungeon. I went Ghost into Master of the Unseen Hand, with sorceror levels to round it out (technically a prefix, but starting at level 15, it doesn't matter much), and served as battlefield control (we had a blaster cleric archer, a greatsword weapon master, and a rogue/IB/MasterThrower). The only thing that threw me for a loop was when the DM tossed his blackguard/cavalier and his Nightmare mount at us, and caught me on the Ethereal Plane. (Granted, I did eventually win... Shatter on the saddle, followed by telekinetically disarming him of his sword, turned the tables real fast. I would have tried to posess him if I had found him first.)

On the other hand, you said "wizard" -- and ghost works best with a through-the-roof Charisma. For wizards, the lich is probably the best option, which is a shame.

By the way, an option you may like is to come back as a spawn (like you suggested), and then somehow break free. Take a gander at the Savage Species PrC Emaciated Spawn. Three levels for a full recovery from a stock (as in, non-GM tailored) undead template, plus a few extras in there for fun.
The Fury
12-24-04, 11:44 AM My friend and I were also talking about Ghost wizards and material components. Is it legal to have someone use Etherelness or etherel jaunt and give them to you in that state?
Zardehar
12-24-04, 12:01 PM Depending on were your taking this campaign (what level). I say go with lich, they're by far the best for Wizards and while you take a hit to chash you can also (Eventually) become a Demi-Lich, which are absolutly unstoppable.
Xeraph
12-24-04, 01:53 PM Silveraith, from City of the Spider Queen is very very very nice... also incorporal, is nearly immune to target spells... but lacks LA??? But a reasonable houserule for +4 or +5 would do the trick.
catharz
12-24-04, 03:04 PM Silveraith, from City of the Spider Queen is very very very nice... also incorporal, is nearly immune to target spells... but lacks LA??? But a reasonable houserule for +4 or +5 would do the trick.

The LA is in the PGtF web enhancement. I think that it is +8 :eek:
widow
12-24-04, 03:11 PM I agree with Xeraph on a silveraith. They are great but they do have a high LA of +8. It can be found in the 3.5 conversion pdf for Forgotten realms (cannot find the link at the moment).
Xeraph
12-24-04, 04:12 PM The LA is in the PGtF web enhancement. I think that it is +8 :eek:

:eek:

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Traks 12-23-04, 04:23 AM	In our game, my character have died and will come back as undead. It is evil party, so no one really cares about that. I am wizard, so of course it would be preferable to not take many level adjustments. Which undead type is best to adapt? Except that strange necropolitan or whatever. Lich seems ok, but he gets that stingy 4 lvl adjustment. I liek spawn monsters, but being one of them means you have to have a master and that is evil GM fun. So what can boards recommend to starting optimiser? :) Oh yes, party level is around 16th.
The Fury 12-23-04, 12:57 PM	Templates are stronger then Monster Class undead. Don't forget if you are a lich, your phylactery would come out of your starting cash. Lich is probably the way to go, as vampires have a lot of weaknesses. Wights make good sorcerors and fighters. Ghosts are complicated, but you could beat the living scheise out of the campaign until the DM sends some good ghostbusters against you.
Jeremymc 12-23-04, 01:23 PM	Ghosts are amazing, but bad for LA. +5 template. What is amazing about a ghost, however, is their ability to manifest the Telekinesis spell every 1-4 rounds. This is not to be sneezed at, as you can easily branch into the Master of the Unseen Hand, and kick some serious butt. Especialy if that TK is a supernatural ability, and not spell-like. Which means NO SR!.
catharz 12-23-04, 02:10 PM	Ghosts are amazing, but bad for LA. +5 template. What is amazing about a ghost, however, is their ability to manifest the Telekinesis spell every 1-4 rounds. This is not to be sneezed at, as you can easily branch into the Master of the Unseen Hand, and kick some serious butt. Especialy if that TK is a supernatural ability, and not spell-like. Which means NO SR!. I completely agree, although I would try to use the WotC Savage Progression. Just take up to level 4 for Malevolance.
Tempest Stormwind 12-23-04, 02:24 PM	I completely agree, although I would try to use the WotC Savage Progression. Just take up to level 4 for Malevolance. Another vote for Ghost, particularily the Savage Progression version. I had a minmax thing a while ago -- three of us, best twinkery we could use, vs the DM, best twinkery he could use in making a dungeon. I went Ghost into Master of the Unseen Hand, with sorceror levels to round it out (technically a prefix, but starting at level 15, it doesn't matter much), and served as battlefield control (we had a blaster cleric archer, a greatsword weapon master, and a rogue/IB/MasterThrower). The only thing that threw me for a loop was when the DM tossed his blackguard/cavalier and his Nightmare mount at us, and caught me on the Ethereal Plane. (Granted, I did eventually win... Shatter on the saddle, followed by telekinetically disarming him of his sword, turned the tables real fast. I would have tried to posess him if I had found him first.) On the other hand, you said "wizard" -- and ghost works best with a through-the-roof Charisma. For wizards, the lich is probably the best option, which is a shame. By the way, an option you may like is to come back as a spawn (like you suggested), and then somehow break free. Take a gander at the Savage Species PrC Emaciated Spawn. Three levels for a full recovery from a stock (as in, non-GM tailored) undead template, plus a few extras in there for fun.
The Fury 12-24-04, 11:44 AM	My friend and I were also talking about Ghost wizards and material components. Is it legal to have someone use Etherelness or etherel jaunt and give them to you in that state?
Zardehar 12-24-04, 12:01 PM	Depending on were your taking this campaign (what level). I say go with lich, they're by far the best for Wizards and while you take a hit to chash you can also (Eventually) become a Demi-Lich, which are absolutly unstoppable.
Xeraph 12-24-04, 01:53 PM	Silveraith, from City of the Spider Queen is very very very nice... also incorporal, is nearly immune to target spells... but lacks LA??? But a reasonable houserule for +4 or +5 would do the trick.
catharz 12-24-04, 03:04 PM	Silveraith, from City of the Spider Queen is very very very nice... also incorporal, is nearly immune to target spells... but lacks LA??? But a reasonable houserule for +4 or +5 would do the trick. The LA is in the PGtF web enhancement. I think that it is +8 :eek:
widow 12-24-04, 03:11 PM	I agree with Xeraph on a silveraith. They are great but they do have a high LA of +8. It can be found in the 3.5 conversion pdf for Forgotten realms (cannot find the link at the moment).
Xeraph 12-24-04, 04:12 PM	The LA is in the PGtF web enhancement. I think that it is +8 :eek: :eek: