Best use of Fiend of Possession? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best use of Fiend of Possession? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bellegante
11-07-05, 12:25 PM My DM has recently OK'd fiend of possession, to my surprise. He did nerf me to one curse at a time, however.

I have access to all WOTC books save for Magic of Incarnum and the eberron campaign setting. DM will probably allow eberron stuff if it could fit into his campaign transparently though; I can look up things I don't have. Easy access to the complete series, the races series, savage species, fiend folio (obviously), mm2 and 3, PSI, terrain series, most FR stuff.

Starting Level 13.

What I'm wondering is, (as the title says) what is the best use of the fiend? I know later on I'll be able to possess things, animating objects and even later than that people. The first thing that comes to mind for this is Rogue -

Tiefling Rogue 10, FOP 6, FULL bab 3

But that ends up with a poor BAB (FOP progresses as a wizard, I'm already a level behind for tiefling) which makes combat difficult. I've always thought of rogues as needing a lot of equipment - and the subtype ritual I have to have to qualify costs 50k.

I do get martial weapon proficiency from my outsider type - meaning with sorceror 6 I could qualify for eldritch knight. Sorc6 Eldritch Knight 4 FoP 2?

That would allow me to take advantage of being able to alter self or polymorph into outsiders. Anyone have a good build idea for this? Thoughts, suggestions..

I should mention we have a large party, and don't need a particular role filled, though for the purpose of this if there's a good way to make the tiefling FOP fill a role well, I'd love to hear it.

EDIT:
I qualify for fiend of possession through the savage species ritual to gain an alignment subtype. It costs roughly 50k. DM says that will make my first level at CL 11. I will have two levels of fiend of possession, and ten other levels.

No actual demons. The DM wouldn't really care, but his setting doesn't allow for demons - but it does tieflings.
Tweedledope
11-07-05, 12:44 PM How do you figure that you get Martial Weapons because of your outsider type? I know that it says that you get them in the MM but I always assumed that was for creatures with HD and the Type. If that's the case, though, then why would anyone need a dip when they could just use the LA buyoff and get it for "free."

I may be wrong and don't think I'm trying to flame you or anything that's just not how I thought it worked.

-=TD=-
Xaktsaroth
11-07-05, 12:57 PM My DM has recently OK'd fiend of possession, to my surprise. He did nerf me to one curse at a time, however.

I have access to all WOTC books save for Magic of Incarnum and the eberron campaign setting. DM will probably allow eberron stuff if it could fit into his campaign transparently though; I can look up things I don't have. Easy access to the complete series, the races series, savage species, fiend folio (obviously), mm2 and 3, PSI, terrain series, most FR stuff.

Starting Level 13.

What I'm wondering is, (as the title says) what is the best use of the fiend? I know later on I'll be able to possess things, animating objects and even later than that people. The first thing that comes to mind for this is Rogue -

Tiefling Rogue 10, FOP 6, FULL bab 3

But that ends up with a poor BAB (FOP progresses as a wizard, I'm already a level behind for tiefling) which makes combat difficult. I've always thought of rogues as needing a lot of equipment - and that ritual costs about 50k.

I do get martial weapon proficiency from my outsider type - meaning with sorceror 6 I could qualify for eldritch knight. Sorc6 Eldritch Knight 4 FoP 2?

That would allow me to take advantage of being able to alter self or polymorph into outsiders, which I've read here is supposedly worth the loss of CL for tiefling, in some cases. Anyone have a good build idea for this? Thoughts, suggestions..

I should mention we have a large party, and don't need a particular role filled, though for the purpose of this if there's a good way to make the tiefling FOP fill a role well, I'd love to hear it.

Small problem.

To be a FoP, you have to be an outsider with the evil subtype, so unless you SS up the Evil Ritual to gain the subtype, tiefling = no dice.

Could be one of those 2HD + 2 LA things, Kotria, Kotria, can't remember.
AlienFromBeyond
11-07-05, 01:35 PM You mean Kaorti?
Xaktsaroth
11-07-05, 01:43 PM You mean Kaorti?

There we go. :)
aod318
11-07-05, 01:58 PM The Imp is a fun choice. Seems almost made for the Fiend and your racial abilities qualify you, so your first level can be fiend. Then branch out with Monk, Palidin of Tyranny or maybe some rogue to improve your fighting in big creatures.
Bellegante
11-07-05, 02:20 PM I qualify for fiend of possession through the savage species ritual to gain an alignment subtype. It costs roughly 50k, and I'd intended to put that in my original post - I will edit it in, now.

Also, read the 'outsider' type and the 'native' subtype, both of which are qualities of tiefling, and tell me how I don't get martial weapon proficiencies? A level adjustment is a big thing, and I'm getting everything from it that I can. If you can find any rules reference at all to justify them not getting that martial weapon proficiency, do tell me, but according to RAW they do.

As LA buyoff is an optional rule, I have no certainty that it's even an option, so let's assume I can't, for this exercise.

Now, that aside, any build ideas? Would it be worthwhile to go in as a Wilder with expanded knowledge metamorphosis - I'd be able to metamorph into several outsiders, but I'm still looking to see if that's a worthwhile way to take advantage of this. Keep in mind I'm starting below the level where my possession becomes awesome.
Gloverboy
11-07-05, 02:54 PM Posess a masterwork item, enhance it as much as you can, and get an enemy to take it. Be utterly useful, and then, suddenly become useless at the worst possible moment. Or better yet, help them kick a dragon's arze, then materialize and finish off the poor worn-out fool!
Lilt
11-07-05, 03:04 PM I've said it before and I'll say it again: All outsiders get proficiency with all martial weapons. That's the RAW. Wether or not they have racial hit dice bears no relevance and I really don't know where that rumour came from. It's a trait of the type, not a feature of the racial HD.

Back to the build:
Rogue 10 won't get you the +5 will save required by FoP.
Imp is an interesting option, but has no official LA under 'real' 3.5 (SS lists it as +4, for ECL 7)
LA doesn't matter too much for a FoP. What's most important is your charisma modifier and levels in FoP as those are what bump your save DCs
Kaorti with 2HD+2LA and +6 charisma (compare to the Imp's +4) would make a fine choice
Psionics are great for FoPs as they have no components. You can thus use them whilst posessing objects which are unable to make components
I might suggest a build like:
Kaorti 2+2/Phrenic +2/Wilder 1/FoP 6
Phrenic from the XPH gives good mental stat boosts (including +4 charisma for +2 to save DCs) and some psi-likes which are based on hit-dice (includes class levels). What would be perfect for you would be a class that gave you your charisma bonus on saves.
Bellegante
11-07-05, 03:26 PM Is it the general consensus that it's better to enter as a Kaorti than as a Tiefling via the savage species ritual? I'd have to agree, looking it over.. in fact, I'd start with the complete FoP class!

However, while that is certainly a fine idea, it's not one open to me. The only option I have for entering the FoP is via tiefling through the ritual granting the evil subtype. Is this not worth doing?

A straight caster could qualify, netting spells, but the class seems to be melee based.. at least later, when you start attacking things. My combat ability will be poor - I'd hate to be relegated to nothing but scouting (dangerous, even with ethereal at will, in this game) and enhancing someone's weapon.
Gerdreg
11-07-05, 03:32 PM Many poeple take Warlock when you get class levels as you can use spell-like abilities while in possession.
Lilt
11-07-05, 05:50 PM Many poeple take Warlock when you get class levels as you can use spell-like abilities while in possession.Possibly, but the warlock's invocations require somatic components. That probably means you can't use them unless you are posessing a form which could use somatic components.However, while that is certainly a fine idea, it's not one open to me. The only option I have for entering the FoP is via tiefling through the ritual granting the evil subtype. Is this not worth doing?FoP gets generally less powerful as you progress in levels, but it's still a powerful class.

Your GM not allowing you into the class until later levels balances it somewhat, but it's still a powerful enough class that your character will be effective. FoP is so powerful that it changes the way that the character will work and fight, even after only a few levels.

Don't worry too much, however, as your character is going to finish FoP eventually, and in the end there's little difference between X 10/FOP 6/X 4 and X 5/FOP 6/X 9.

Class-wise I think Wilder goes best.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bellegante 11-07-05, 12:25 PM	My DM has recently OK'd fiend of possession, to my surprise. He did nerf me to one curse at a time, however. I have access to all WOTC books save for Magic of Incarnum and the eberron campaign setting. DM will probably allow eberron stuff if it could fit into his campaign transparently though; I can look up things I don't have. Easy access to the complete series, the races series, savage species, fiend folio (obviously), mm2 and 3, PSI, terrain series, most FR stuff. Starting Level 13. What I'm wondering is, (as the title says) what is the best use of the fiend? I know later on I'll be able to possess things, animating objects and even later than that people. The first thing that comes to mind for this is Rogue - Tiefling Rogue 10, FOP 6, FULL bab 3 But that ends up with a poor BAB (FOP progresses as a wizard, I'm already a level behind for tiefling) which makes combat difficult. I've always thought of rogues as needing a lot of equipment - and the subtype ritual I have to have to qualify costs 50k. I do get martial weapon proficiency from my outsider type - meaning with sorceror 6 I could qualify for eldritch knight. Sorc6 Eldritch Knight 4 FoP 2? That would allow me to take advantage of being able to alter self or polymorph into outsiders. Anyone have a good build idea for this? Thoughts, suggestions.. I should mention we have a large party, and don't need a particular role filled, though for the purpose of this if there's a good way to make the tiefling FOP fill a role well, I'd love to hear it. EDIT: I qualify for fiend of possession through the savage species ritual to gain an alignment subtype. It costs roughly 50k. DM says that will make my first level at CL 11. I will have two levels of fiend of possession, and ten other levels. No actual demons. The DM wouldn't really care, but his setting doesn't allow for demons - but it does tieflings.
Tweedledope 11-07-05, 12:44 PM	How do you figure that you get Martial Weapons because of your outsider type? I know that it says that you get them in the MM but I always assumed that was for creatures with HD and the Type. If that's the case, though, then why would anyone need a dip when they could just use the LA buyoff and get it for "free." I may be wrong and don't think I'm trying to flame you or anything that's just not how I thought it worked. -=TD=-
Xaktsaroth 11-07-05, 12:57 PM	My DM has recently OK'd fiend of possession, to my surprise. He did nerf me to one curse at a time, however. I have access to all WOTC books save for Magic of Incarnum and the eberron campaign setting. DM will probably allow eberron stuff if it could fit into his campaign transparently though; I can look up things I don't have. Easy access to the complete series, the races series, savage species, fiend folio (obviously), mm2 and 3, PSI, terrain series, most FR stuff. Starting Level 13. What I'm wondering is, (as the title says) what is the best use of the fiend? I know later on I'll be able to possess things, animating objects and even later than that people. The first thing that comes to mind for this is Rogue - Tiefling Rogue 10, FOP 6, FULL bab 3 But that ends up with a poor BAB (FOP progresses as a wizard, I'm already a level behind for tiefling) which makes combat difficult. I've always thought of rogues as needing a lot of equipment - and that ritual costs about 50k. I do get martial weapon proficiency from my outsider type - meaning with sorceror 6 I could qualify for eldritch knight. Sorc6 Eldritch Knight 4 FoP 2? That would allow me to take advantage of being able to alter self or polymorph into outsiders, which I've read here is supposedly worth the loss of CL for tiefling, in some cases. Anyone have a good build idea for this? Thoughts, suggestions.. I should mention we have a large party, and don't need a particular role filled, though for the purpose of this if there's a good way to make the tiefling FOP fill a role well, I'd love to hear it. Small problem. To be a FoP, you have to be an outsider with the evil subtype, so unless you SS up the Evil Ritual to gain the subtype, tiefling = no dice. Could be one of those 2HD + 2 LA things, Kotria, Kotria, can't remember.
AlienFromBeyond 11-07-05, 01:35 PM	You mean Kaorti?
Xaktsaroth 11-07-05, 01:43 PM	You mean Kaorti? There we go. :)
aod318 11-07-05, 01:58 PM	The Imp is a fun choice. Seems almost made for the Fiend and your racial abilities qualify you, so your first level can be fiend. Then branch out with Monk, Palidin of Tyranny or maybe some rogue to improve your fighting in big creatures.
Bellegante 11-07-05, 02:20 PM	I qualify for fiend of possession through the savage species ritual to gain an alignment subtype. It costs roughly 50k, and I'd intended to put that in my original post - I will edit it in, now. Also, read the 'outsider' type and the 'native' subtype, both of which are qualities of tiefling, and tell me how I don't get martial weapon proficiencies? A level adjustment is a big thing, and I'm getting everything from it that I can. If you can find any rules reference at all to justify them not getting that martial weapon proficiency, do tell me, but according to RAW they do. As LA buyoff is an optional rule, I have no certainty that it's even an option, so let's assume I can't, for this exercise. Now, that aside, any build ideas? Would it be worthwhile to go in as a Wilder with expanded knowledge metamorphosis - I'd be able to metamorph into several outsiders, but I'm still looking to see if that's a worthwhile way to take advantage of this. Keep in mind I'm starting below the level where my possession becomes awesome.
Gloverboy 11-07-05, 02:54 PM	Posess a masterwork item, enhance it as much as you can, and get an enemy to take it. Be utterly useful, and then, suddenly become useless at the worst possible moment. Or better yet, help them kick a dragon's arze, then materialize and finish off the poor worn-out fool!
Lilt 11-07-05, 03:04 PM	I've said it before and I'll say it again: All outsiders get proficiency with all martial weapons. That's the RAW. Wether or not they have racial hit dice bears no relevance and I really don't know where that rumour came from. It's a trait of the type, not a feature of the racial HD. Back to the build: Rogue 10 won't get you the +5 will save required by FoP. Imp is an interesting option, but has no official LA under 'real' 3.5 (SS lists it as +4, for ECL 7) LA doesn't matter too much for a FoP. What's most important is your charisma modifier and levels in FoP as those are what bump your save DCs Kaorti with 2HD+2LA and +6 charisma (compare to the Imp's +4) would make a fine choice Psionics are great for FoPs as they have no components. You can thus use them whilst posessing objects which are unable to make components I might suggest a build like: Kaorti 2+2/Phrenic +2/Wilder 1/FoP 6 Phrenic from the XPH gives good mental stat boosts (including +4 charisma for +2 to save DCs) and some psi-likes which are based on hit-dice (includes class levels). What would be perfect for you would be a class that gave you your charisma bonus on saves.
Bellegante 11-07-05, 03:26 PM	Is it the general consensus that it's better to enter as a Kaorti than as a Tiefling via the savage species ritual? I'd have to agree, looking it over.. in fact, I'd start with the complete FoP class! However, while that is certainly a fine idea, it's not one open to me. The only option I have for entering the FoP is via tiefling through the ritual granting the evil subtype. Is this not worth doing? A straight caster could qualify, netting spells, but the class seems to be melee based.. at least later, when you start attacking things. My combat ability will be poor - I'd hate to be relegated to nothing but scouting (dangerous, even with ethereal at will, in this game) and enhancing someone's weapon.
Gerdreg 11-07-05, 03:32 PM	Many poeple take Warlock when you get class levels as you can use spell-like abilities while in possession.
Lilt 11-07-05, 05:50 PM	Many poeple take Warlock when you get class levels as you can use spell-like abilities while in possession.Possibly, but the warlock's invocations require somatic components. That probably means you can't use them unless you are posessing a form which could use somatic components.However, while that is certainly a fine idea, it's not one open to me. The only option I have for entering the FoP is via tiefling through the ritual granting the evil subtype. Is this not worth doing?FoP gets generally less powerful as you progress in levels, but it's still a powerful class. Your GM not allowing you into the class until later levels balances it somewhat, but it's still a powerful enough class that your character will be effective. FoP is so powerful that it changes the way that the character will work and fight, even after only a few levels. Don't worry too much, however, as your character is going to finish FoP eventually, and in the end there's little difference between X 10/FOP 6/X 4 and X 5/FOP 6/X 9. Class-wise I think Wilder goes best.