Best ways to avoid having your DMM: persistent buffs dispelled [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best ways to avoid having your DMM: persistent buffs dispelled [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Double M
11-01-06, 12:37 PM Hey all,

I have looked through the Cleric and Paladin 3.5 threads and various DMM threads at how to avoid MDJ, AMF, and Dispelling of various persisted buffs, but can't seem to find anything other than "raise caster level" and play a cheater (initiate) of Mystra. We are using Core, races of x, completes, BoED, Libris Mortis, PHB2, and UA and that's it (IIRC). And I will be playing a 20th level Cleric Tank with DMM: Persist.

What are some of the best ways to avoid losing your persistent buffs outside of the abovementioned examples (or are there)?

I still haven't decided on the best build and am considering Prestige Paladin, Cloistered Cleric, Contemplative and other build possibilities (so any advice on that would be cool, too). Also, we are playing with the Olympic Pantheon and my cleric can worship the pantheon as a whole and pick 2 domains (nice) or go with a specific God.

Thanks for any help
Prominence
11-01-06, 12:39 PM Ring of Greater Counterspell and Ring of Spellbattle works for two shots at you a day.
Dragon3
11-01-06, 12:40 PM Consumptive field for the evil. :)
Double M
11-01-06, 12:43 PM Consumptive Field does, indeed, kick serious A ...sadly my DM never lets us play bad guys! :weep:
sCRuLooSe
11-01-06, 02:44 PM Ring of arcane might, prayer beads, orange ioun stone, etc can improve your caster level, but you already had improve caster level on the list. A couple of other options:

1) Be hard to target. Fogs make it hard to be effected by a non-area dispel. This saves most of your buffs from being dispelled. Divine casters have similar effects. My personal favorite is blacklight (or the shadowmantle (I think) soulmeld) coupled with the ebon eyes spell or one of the binds that lets you see through magical darkness. If the target cannot see you they cannot target you with a dispel.

2) Be hard to find. If the opponent cannot find you because you keep re-hiding or are invisibile, you are very hard to dispel even with the area effects.

3) Contingencies. Not only the spell but the craft contingent spell feat. Some of the newer dimension hopping spells set to teleport you out of an area dispel or MD can be a powerful effect. You may also be able to teleport into full cover preventing you from being effected by the targeted dispels.

4) Initiate of the Seven Veils is generally considered immune to the effects when the right veil is up. This is arcane only, but could still be helpful in an ally.

5) Dualward and battlefield perception may let you counter the spell before it is cast. As has been noted, 2 rings can do the same. Anyspell can be massively useful for a cleric.

6) Ally with a mageslayer (or get one for a henchman.) The feat is realy nice versus your average caster and, in combination with some of the feats in ToB, can help a non-caster character guard you from dispels.

7) Pack the undead and constructs. If you expect this type of combat, stay out of it and let your animated (non-dispellable) minions fight for you.

8) Stay under cover. Mobile spellcaster combined with the xorn movement spell (or ghostform/shapechange) or the earthdreamer prestige class (RoS) can ensure that you can only be dispelled if your opponent readies their action and suffers the subsequent loss of initiative. Even if the opponent readies their action, if a companion telepathically instructs you to wait in the wall, you can effectively deny your opponent their readied action by doing nothing.

9) Get a massive party initiative. If you kill your opponent before they dispel you, you win. I like having a party member with constant detect scrying and anticipate teleportation spells to prevent surprise from denying the character this option.

Does that help?
Double M
11-01-06, 06:19 PM Thanks Scruloose for your extensive reply!

Quick question for whomever: Where do I find the Ring of Spellbattle?

Scruloose: wouldn't an area dispel, just dispel the fogs or invisibility or other "magical hiding" that you suggest in 1 and 2?
Where do I find Dualward and Battlefield Perception?
fnord
11-01-06, 06:49 PM Scruloose: wouldn't an area dispel, just dispel the fogs or invisibility or other "magical hiding" that you suggest in 1 and 2?

Yes, but then they're using area dispel instead of targeted. So they don't get a chance at each item.

A Dispelling Buffer, from an ally or item, is also useful.
Double M
11-01-06, 07:01 PM Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know what you mean by "a dispelling buffer."
sCRuLooSe
11-01-06, 07:42 PM Scruloose: wouldn't an area dispel, just dispel the fogs or invisibility or other "magical hiding" that you suggest in 1 and 2?
Where do I find Dualward and Battlefield Perception?

Maybe
As fnord mentioned, if they use an area dispel for a fog than they can only get one of your other buffs with the fog. Protecting most of your buffs is a fairly worthwhile exchange. On top of that they just sacrificed one of their actions to maybe (they still need a caster level check) take out your fog and a single buff. This is one fewer offensive action that they could have used to take out your party. Most opponents will prefer to try to do something more effective rather than use an action, to dispel just two spells, thus you are safer. The exception, of course, is MD.

However, you have to be in the area to be effected. If the fog cloud is bigger than the area of the MD or dispel and they do not know exactly where you are within the fog, they are still likely to miss you with an area effect. Yes, if you are in a fog cloud, it may be dispelled, but you might still be missed. Similarly, an area dispel cannot dispel your invisibility unless they actually catch you in the area, ventriloquism, illusions, or simple misdirection (throw a stone) can get them to target the wrong area. Moreover, even if you are caught in the area, your highest spell will be the one that is effected by an area dispel (again MD is an exception), so the invisibility will likely not be dispelled and they will be forced to keep using area effects until they can find you. If you hide, the same is true, and in addition, your stealthiness cannot be dispelled. Again, the opponent is likely to do something else rather than rely on a spell with a hefty chance at failing (especially in combination with an augmented caster level or stealth abilities).

Ring of spell-battle in in complete arcane.

Dulaward is also from complete arcane.

Battlefield Perception is from heroes of battle.

Dispelling Buffer is a psionic power that, depending on interetation of psionic-magic transparency rules, makes it more difficult to dispel your spells. A new ring from complete mage, Ring of Enduring Arcana will have a similar effect.

Hope that helps.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
11-01-06, 09:17 PM Beware of spell thiefs...
callen
11-01-06, 09:32 PM What about Spellblade (PGF) on a weapon? If you have it crafted twice, once for Dispel Magic and once for Greater Dispel Magic, you're golden against targetted dispels. Only area dispels and Mage's Disjunction need worry you now. That had been my plan for my artificer before the campaign ended.

Christopher
sCRuLooSe
11-01-06, 11:40 PM What about Spellblade (PGF) on a weapon? If you have it crafted twice, once for Dispel Magic and once for Greater Dispel Magic, you're golden against targetted dispels. Only area dispels and Mage's Disjunction need worry you now. That had been my plan for my artificer before the campaign ended.

Christopher

Sadly, I do not believe this will work. Spellblade grants spell immunity. Based on standard spell immunity, this has not effect on spells that do not allow spell resistance (such as dispel magic).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Double M 11-01-06, 12:37 PM	Hey all, I have looked through the Cleric and Paladin 3.5 threads and various DMM threads at how to avoid MDJ, AMF, and Dispelling of various persisted buffs, but can't seem to find anything other than "raise caster level" and play a cheater (initiate) of Mystra. We are using Core, races of x, completes, BoED, Libris Mortis, PHB2, and UA and that's it (IIRC). And I will be playing a 20th level Cleric Tank with DMM: Persist. What are some of the best ways to avoid losing your persistent buffs outside of the abovementioned examples (or are there)? I still haven't decided on the best build and am considering Prestige Paladin, Cloistered Cleric, Contemplative and other build possibilities (so any advice on that would be cool, too). Also, we are playing with the Olympic Pantheon and my cleric can worship the pantheon as a whole and pick 2 domains (nice) or go with a specific God. Thanks for any help
Prominence 11-01-06, 12:39 PM	Ring of Greater Counterspell and Ring of Spellbattle works for two shots at you a day.
Dragon3 11-01-06, 12:40 PM	Consumptive field for the evil. :)
Double M 11-01-06, 12:43 PM	Consumptive Field does, indeed, kick serious A ...sadly my DM never lets us play bad guys! :weep:
sCRuLooSe 11-01-06, 02:44 PM	Ring of arcane might, prayer beads, orange ioun stone, etc can improve your caster level, but you already had improve caster level on the list. A couple of other options: 1) Be hard to target. Fogs make it hard to be effected by a non-area dispel. This saves most of your buffs from being dispelled. Divine casters have similar effects. My personal favorite is blacklight (or the shadowmantle (I think) soulmeld) coupled with the ebon eyes spell or one of the binds that lets you see through magical darkness. If the target cannot see you they cannot target you with a dispel. 2) Be hard to find. If the opponent cannot find you because you keep re-hiding or are invisibile, you are very hard to dispel even with the area effects. 3) Contingencies. Not only the spell but the craft contingent spell feat. Some of the newer dimension hopping spells set to teleport you out of an area dispel or MD can be a powerful effect. You may also be able to teleport into full cover preventing you from being effected by the targeted dispels. 4) Initiate of the Seven Veils is generally considered immune to the effects when the right veil is up. This is arcane only, but could still be helpful in an ally. 5) Dualward and battlefield perception may let you counter the spell before it is cast. As has been noted, 2 rings can do the same. Anyspell can be massively useful for a cleric. 6) Ally with a mageslayer (or get one for a henchman.) The feat is realy nice versus your average caster and, in combination with some of the feats in ToB, can help a non-caster character guard you from dispels. 7) Pack the undead and constructs. If you expect this type of combat, stay out of it and let your animated (non-dispellable) minions fight for you. 8) Stay under cover. Mobile spellcaster combined with the xorn movement spell (or ghostform/shapechange) or the earthdreamer prestige class (RoS) can ensure that you can only be dispelled if your opponent readies their action and suffers the subsequent loss of initiative. Even if the opponent readies their action, if a companion telepathically instructs you to wait in the wall, you can effectively deny your opponent their readied action by doing nothing. 9) Get a massive party initiative. If you kill your opponent before they dispel you, you win. I like having a party member with constant detect scrying and anticipate teleportation spells to prevent surprise from denying the character this option. Does that help?
Double M 11-01-06, 06:19 PM	Thanks Scruloose for your extensive reply! Quick question for whomever: Where do I find the Ring of Spellbattle? Scruloose: wouldn't an area dispel, just dispel the fogs or invisibility or other "magical hiding" that you suggest in 1 and 2? Where do I find Dualward and Battlefield Perception?
fnord 11-01-06, 06:49 PM	Scruloose: wouldn't an area dispel, just dispel the fogs or invisibility or other "magical hiding" that you suggest in 1 and 2? Yes, but then they're using area dispel instead of targeted. So they don't get a chance at each item. A Dispelling Buffer, from an ally or item, is also useful.
Double M 11-01-06, 07:01 PM	Forgive my ignorance, but I don't know what you mean by "a dispelling buffer."
sCRuLooSe 11-01-06, 07:42 PM	Scruloose: wouldn't an area dispel, just dispel the fogs or invisibility or other "magical hiding" that you suggest in 1 and 2? Where do I find Dualward and Battlefield Perception? Maybe As fnord mentioned, if they use an area dispel for a fog than they can only get one of your other buffs with the fog. Protecting most of your buffs is a fairly worthwhile exchange. On top of that they just sacrificed one of their actions to maybe (they still need a caster level check) take out your fog and a single buff. This is one fewer offensive action that they could have used to take out your party. Most opponents will prefer to try to do something more effective rather than use an action, to dispel just two spells, thus you are safer. The exception, of course, is MD. However, you have to be in the area to be effected. If the fog cloud is bigger than the area of the MD or dispel and they do not know exactly where you are within the fog, they are still likely to miss you with an area effect. Yes, if you are in a fog cloud, it may be dispelled, but you might still be missed. Similarly, an area dispel cannot dispel your invisibility unless they actually catch you in the area, ventriloquism, illusions, or simple misdirection (throw a stone) can get them to target the wrong area. Moreover, even if you are caught in the area, your highest spell will be the one that is effected by an area dispel (again MD is an exception), so the invisibility will likely not be dispelled and they will be forced to keep using area effects until they can find you. If you hide, the same is true, and in addition, your stealthiness cannot be dispelled. Again, the opponent is likely to do something else rather than rely on a spell with a hefty chance at failing (especially in combination with an augmented caster level or stealth abilities). Ring of spell-battle in in complete arcane. Dulaward is also from complete arcane. Battlefield Perception is from heroes of battle. Dispelling Buffer is a psionic power that, depending on interetation of psionic-magic transparency rules, makes it more difficult to dispel your spells. A new ring from complete mage, Ring of Enduring Arcana will have a similar effect. Hope that helps.
Tleilaxu_Ghola 11-01-06, 09:17 PM	Beware of spell thiefs...
callen 11-01-06, 09:32 PM	What about Spellblade (PGF) on a weapon? If you have it crafted twice, once for Dispel Magic and once for Greater Dispel Magic, you're golden against targetted dispels. Only area dispels and Mage's Disjunction need worry you now. That had been my plan for my artificer before the campaign ended. Christopher
sCRuLooSe 11-01-06, 11:40 PM	What about Spellblade (PGF) on a weapon? If you have it crafted twice, once for Dispel Magic and once for Greater Dispel Magic, you're golden against targetted dispels. Only area dispels and Mage's Disjunction need worry you now. That had been my plan for my artificer before the campaign ended. Christopher Sadly, I do not believe this will work. Spellblade grants spell immunity. Based on standard spell immunity, this has not effect on spells that do not allow spell resistance (such as dispel magic).