Best ways to deliver touch spells as a li'l ol' wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best ways to deliver touch spells as a li'l ol' wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
artificial penguin
07-04-04, 02:14 PM OK, we're starting at 6th level and I've got my character concept: a wizard who likes to cast Necromancy spells (NOT a specialist). I really like the touch spells like: ghoul's touch, vampiric touch, etc. However, it's not good for a weakling like myself to get into combat.

Obvious solution: memorize spectral hand. Problem: I have to memorize it once for each combat per day, maybe 3-4 times? I likes my spell slots, so I'm trying to decide on the best way to work around this.

Here are some ideas I had:

1. Pearl of Power, 2nd level. For 4,000 gp I get one casting of Spectral Hand back. Blah.
2. Get a specially-made wondrous item that lets me cast Spectral Hand x times a day: 2x day is just over 4,000 gp, 3x day is just over 6,000 gp.
3. Build a character that *can* deal with running into (and out of) combat to deliver touch spells. Spring Attack and Fly? I dunno, sounds horribly inefficient for a build.
4. Use my familiar. This is *terrible*, since bad bad things happen if it dies. But maybe there's some clever way to protect it?

So far, #2 sounds like the best option, but I KNOW you knowledgeable folks out there can come up with something else.

thanks in advance,

/ap
Bopple
07-04-04, 02:17 PM Reach Spell metamagic feat and metamagic rod.

In the long run, take Archmage PrC and get Arcane Reach ability.
artificial penguin
07-04-04, 02:28 PM A metamagic rod for Reach Spell would cost 16,400, at least based on Tome and Blood (same slot change as Empowerment). Is this the one you meant?

It's effective, but I wouldn't be able to get one for a few levels.

/ap
Snow Savant
07-04-04, 02:33 PM A Lesser Metamagick Reach Spell Rod costs the same as a Lesser Metamagick Empower Spell Rod. And for 3 times a day, you can channel such spells as Vampiric Touch (probably your best option) with all the benefits that accrue from using metamagick rods. When your finances allow the purchase or creation of such an item, it sounds like the perfect fit for your character. Odds are, 3 castings of such a spell archetypes will be enough in a 3-5 combat encounter day for you and your group.

A 5th level slot for a Vampiric Touch with Reach Spell feat is rather sub-optimal. If you can get one of the PrC's that deducts 1 spell level off of metamagick feat costs, suddenly Reach Spell at a +1 cost becomes much more attractive.
Snow Savant
07-04-04, 02:34 PM It would cost 9K per the DMG 3.5.
Bopple
07-04-04, 02:37 PM 3.5 version is a bit less expensive(9,000gp-assuming same as empower), but still costly and 3 per day...

Using familiar is too risky...even if you make it invisible...

Spectral Hand is unreliable, assuming your str to be lower than your dex.

I think you gotta pile up some levels...
artificial penguin
07-04-04, 02:37 PM Yup, thanks Snow, just saw that.

I'll look into the PrCs. I know it wouldn't be worth *too* much money to use Vampiric Touch, but I like the flavor thing is all

thanks again to both of you,

/ap
artificial penguin
07-04-04, 02:44 PM You're right about Spectral Hand being a bit unreliable. I ended up with 12 STR, and I have a whopping +3 BA. Add in the fact that I'm small (gnome, Dragonlance setting), though, and I at least have a +5.

Seems like most of the stuff we're fighting doesn't have great touch attacks...maybe 12/13 on average. Still, those are like 1/3 chance to miss for me. Oh well.

This is one reason I didn't specialize. If I find my touch spells to not be enough if I actually want to hurt something, there's always lightning bolt :D

/ap
His Shadow
07-04-04, 03:15 PM If the character is evil and has the "Improved Familiar"-Feat, the wizard could have a small eyeball as familiar. Those can deliver touch spells as a ranged touch attack. :behold:
artificial penguin
07-04-04, 03:21 PM Which is book is THAT from? Sounds very interesting :)
Nifft
07-04-04, 03:25 PM Eyeball is in Monsters of Faerun, IIRC.

-- N
Bopple
07-04-04, 09:35 PM Ahh, that one. I forgot about it. Good idea.
BTW, you don't have to be evil. You can get it, if you are neutral.
Puskara
07-04-04, 11:52 PM Have a cohort or another PC who is a devoted defender.

They can take all the hits for you and get lots of hits themselves with thier class abilities. They need a good dex and combat reflexes and they shoudl not be using any BAB reducing feats like Power Attack.

Puskara
gijoel
07-05-04, 12:22 AM You could get a familar with interesting movement capabilities. Ie a blink dog, or a air elemental with fly by attack. Not sure if any of the other critters have fly by attacks. I think owls do.

Plus buff the crap out of them. Give them mage armor, invisiablilty, reduce animal/familar, enhance familar.

Or you could just concentrate on ranged touch attack spells. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
pawsplay
07-05-04, 01:01 AM Mirror image will allow you to get in and drop your spell with a pretty good level of defense.

Also, if you are really into the whole bad touch thing, you should become an Eldritch Knight as soon as possible.
Nazzareth
07-05-04, 08:01 AM Heres some things that may help you

1)Whip
Take a feat weapon prof whip and get a +1 spell storing whip.

2)Wondrous items
The wondrous item Spectral Hand is a good way to go if you also create a chill touch item. You can create one for 1800 gps that has unlimmited uses, but it has only a first level effect so you have to activate it each round before you can make a touch attack with it. As you increase in levels and gain more money add more powers to the item, such as vamp touch and ghoul touch.

3) Innate spell
The innate spell from players guide to faerun gives you three uses of the spell perday it could be worth taking, but this way would burn up alot of feats and spell slots. At six level a human wizard could take the innate spell 3 times once at 3rd, 5th and 6th levels thats nine spells perday (six bonus spell if you count in the 3 spell slots you lost). You could have three vamp touches, three chill touches, and three Spectral Hands or six vamp touches and three ghoul touches. If you go this way go Necromancer you have nothing to lose as you can use the bonus spell slots to pay for the innate spell.

Hope this helps
Wizard Random
07-06-04, 12:59 PM HEy yo everyone here is the Wiz Ran here to help ya out.

Use the Improved Familer Feat to get a Small Air elemental For ya, Now aside from the Obvious Beifets from having a elemental as ya Familer Immune to Crticals and Being invited to all the Best Elemental Parties, that little sUCKER has a Huge Dex AND a Move speed of 100, NOW couple that with the free Spring attack Feat and you could have your elemental Do stuff. here is a example.

Cast ghoul Touch and have your little guy move 30 feet to the Baddy, he delivers it and then goes 70 feet STRAIGHT UP, nothing can touch him there. Or even have him return to you. With perfect Manuv. He can go anywhere. Also for a nifty idea Shrink yaself down to small or smaller and ride of ya Elemental. Ye Haw.:angel:
Wizard Random
07-06-04, 01:02 PM Dang, sorry guys i neglected to read all the way throgh the post and did not notice that the guy like 3 spaces before me mentined the same thing, AND it is fly-by-attack the flyers version of spring attack. Mysa Bad
diaboli
07-06-04, 09:07 PM If possible, pick up a wand of Spectral Hand (4500 gp)

Also, don't forget SH provides a +2 to your melee touch attack.

Depending on how your DM rules SH get to add in STR bon or not. Soooo... BAB+3, Str +2, SH +2 your looking at +7 for melee touch... not to shabby. We are talking delivering touch spells here, and most foes will not have a very high touch AC.
SolitudeSeraph
07-06-04, 10:31 PM Instead of wasting a feat on improved familiar, you could use the Elemental Familiar Spell (3rd lvl spell IIRC, costs 500xp) and turn it into a tiny air elemental..and you get +2 to initiative from the air elemental..

Find it Here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011109a)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
artificial penguin 07-04-04, 02:14 PM	OK, we're starting at 6th level and I've got my character concept: a wizard who likes to cast Necromancy spells (NOT a specialist). I really like the touch spells like: ghoul's touch, vampiric touch, etc. However, it's not good for a weakling like myself to get into combat. Obvious solution: memorize spectral hand. Problem: I have to memorize it once for each combat per day, maybe 3-4 times? I likes my spell slots, so I'm trying to decide on the best way to work around this. Here are some ideas I had: 1. Pearl of Power, 2nd level. For 4,000 gp I get one casting of Spectral Hand back. Blah. 2. Get a specially-made wondrous item that lets me cast Spectral Hand x times a day: 2x day is just over 4,000 gp, 3x day is just over 6,000 gp. 3. Build a character that can deal with running into (and out of) combat to deliver touch spells. Spring Attack and Fly? I dunno, sounds horribly inefficient for a build. 4. Use my familiar. This is terrible, since bad bad things happen if it dies. But maybe there's some clever way to protect it? So far, #2 sounds like the best option, but I KNOW you knowledgeable folks out there can come up with something else. thanks in advance, /ap
Bopple 07-04-04, 02:17 PM	Reach Spell metamagic feat and metamagic rod. In the long run, take Archmage PrC and get Arcane Reach ability.
artificial penguin 07-04-04, 02:28 PM	A metamagic rod for Reach Spell would cost 16,400, at least based on Tome and Blood (same slot change as Empowerment). Is this the one you meant? It's effective, but I wouldn't be able to get one for a few levels. /ap
Snow Savant 07-04-04, 02:33 PM	A Lesser Metamagick Reach Spell Rod costs the same as a Lesser Metamagick Empower Spell Rod. And for 3 times a day, you can channel such spells as Vampiric Touch (probably your best option) with all the benefits that accrue from using metamagick rods. When your finances allow the purchase or creation of such an item, it sounds like the perfect fit for your character. Odds are, 3 castings of such a spell archetypes will be enough in a 3-5 combat encounter day for you and your group. A 5th level slot for a Vampiric Touch with Reach Spell feat is rather sub-optimal. If you can get one of the PrC's that deducts 1 spell level off of metamagick feat costs, suddenly Reach Spell at a +1 cost becomes much more attractive.
Snow Savant 07-04-04, 02:34 PM	It would cost 9K per the DMG 3.5.
Bopple 07-04-04, 02:37 PM	3.5 version is a bit less expensive(9,000gp-assuming same as empower), but still costly and 3 per day... Using familiar is too risky...even if you make it invisible... Spectral Hand is unreliable, assuming your str to be lower than your dex. I think you gotta pile up some levels...
artificial penguin 07-04-04, 02:37 PM	Yup, thanks Snow, just saw that. I'll look into the PrCs. I know it wouldn't be worth too much money to use Vampiric Touch, but I like the flavor thing is all thanks again to both of you, /ap
artificial penguin 07-04-04, 02:44 PM	You're right about Spectral Hand being a bit unreliable. I ended up with 12 STR, and I have a whopping +3 BA. Add in the fact that I'm small (gnome, Dragonlance setting), though, and I at least have a +5. Seems like most of the stuff we're fighting doesn't have great touch attacks...maybe 12/13 on average. Still, those are like 1/3 chance to miss for me. Oh well. This is one reason I didn't specialize. If I find my touch spells to not be enough if I actually want to hurt something, there's always lightning bolt :D /ap
His Shadow 07-04-04, 03:15 PM	If the character is evil and has the "Improved Familiar"-Feat, the wizard could have a small eyeball as familiar. Those can deliver touch spells as a ranged touch attack. :behold:
artificial penguin 07-04-04, 03:21 PM	Which is book is THAT from? Sounds very interesting :)
Nifft 07-04-04, 03:25 PM	Eyeball is in Monsters of Faerun, IIRC. -- N
Bopple 07-04-04, 09:35 PM	Ahh, that one. I forgot about it. Good idea. BTW, you don't have to be evil. You can get it, if you are neutral.
Puskara 07-04-04, 11:52 PM	Have a cohort or another PC who is a devoted defender. They can take all the hits for you and get lots of hits themselves with thier class abilities. They need a good dex and combat reflexes and they shoudl not be using any BAB reducing feats like Power Attack. Puskara
gijoel 07-05-04, 12:22 AM	You could get a familar with interesting movement capabilities. Ie a blink dog, or a air elemental with fly by attack. Not sure if any of the other critters have fly by attacks. I think owls do. Plus buff the crap out of them. Give them mage armor, invisiablilty, reduce animal/familar, enhance familar. Or you could just concentrate on ranged touch attack spells. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
pawsplay 07-05-04, 01:01 AM	Mirror image will allow you to get in and drop your spell with a pretty good level of defense. Also, if you are really into the whole bad touch thing, you should become an Eldritch Knight as soon as possible.
Nazzareth 07-05-04, 08:01 AM	Heres some things that may help you 1)Whip Take a feat weapon prof whip and get a +1 spell storing whip. 2)Wondrous items The wondrous item Spectral Hand is a good way to go if you also create a chill touch item. You can create one for 1800 gps that has unlimmited uses, but it has only a first level effect so you have to activate it each round before you can make a touch attack with it. As you increase in levels and gain more money add more powers to the item, such as vamp touch and ghoul touch. 3) Innate spell The innate spell from players guide to faerun gives you three uses of the spell perday it could be worth taking, but this way would burn up alot of feats and spell slots. At six level a human wizard could take the innate spell 3 times once at 3rd, 5th and 6th levels thats nine spells perday (six bonus spell if you count in the 3 spell slots you lost). You could have three vamp touches, three chill touches, and three Spectral Hands or six vamp touches and three ghoul touches. If you go this way go Necromancer you have nothing to lose as you can use the bonus spell slots to pay for the innate spell. Hope this helps
Wizard Random 07-06-04, 12:59 PM	HEy yo everyone here is the Wiz Ran here to help ya out. Use the Improved Familer Feat to get a Small Air elemental For ya, Now aside from the Obvious Beifets from having a elemental as ya Familer Immune to Crticals and Being invited to all the Best Elemental Parties, that little sUCKER has a Huge Dex AND a Move speed of 100, NOW couple that with the free Spring attack Feat and you could have your elemental Do stuff. here is a example. Cast ghoul Touch and have your little guy move 30 feet to the Baddy, he delivers it and then goes 70 feet STRAIGHT UP, nothing can touch him there. Or even have him return to you. With perfect Manuv. He can go anywhere. Also for a nifty idea Shrink yaself down to small or smaller and ride of ya Elemental. Ye Haw.:angel:
Wizard Random 07-06-04, 01:02 PM	Dang, sorry guys i neglected to read all the way throgh the post and did not notice that the guy like 3 spaces before me mentined the same thing, AND it is fly-by-attack the flyers version of spring attack. Mysa Bad
diaboli 07-06-04, 09:07 PM	If possible, pick up a wand of Spectral Hand (4500 gp) Also, don't forget SH provides a +2 to your melee touch attack. Depending on how your DM rules SH get to add in STR bon or not. Soooo... BAB+3, Str +2, SH +2 your looking at +7 for melee touch... not to shabby. We are talking delivering touch spells here, and most foes will not have a very high touch AC.
SolitudeSeraph 07-06-04, 10:31 PM	Instead of wasting a feat on improved familiar, you could use the Elemental Familiar Spell (3rd lvl spell IIRC, costs 500xp) and turn it into a tiny air elemental..and you get +2 to initiative from the air elemental.. Find it Here (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011109a)