Best Weapon for 2 weapon fighting. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Weapon for 2 weapon fighting. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Kabol
10-27-04, 04:36 AM Well - You get the smallest negeatives if you weild 2 light weapons.

So, Right off the Bat I think 2 Shortswords. Then Agian, the Kukri's Larger threat range might make up for its Lower Die. Then Agian - with a Light spiked shield you have a d4 weapon ( 1d8 with bashing enchantment ) and 1 AC with 1 feat.

Looking at a One handed weapon / Light weapon

Well - Scimmy is a Tried and True One handed weapon for Dual Weilders, But then agians, Rapier is finessable, so you can go dex with it and a light weapon off handed to take full advantage of high Dex.

Double Weapons - I really think these are overlooked for 2WF

2Bladed Sword, Ork Double Axe, Dire Flail. And dont forget the Quarterstaff. The only double weapon that doesnt require a feat < Racial Familurarity Excluded > Does the fact that you only need 1 good double weapon - as opposed to 2 for individual weapons make up for your reliance on a rare/exotic weapon?

And what about 2 weapon of the Same Size?

Does the higher dmg die make up for the increased pelelties? Duel Rapiers, Scimys, Flail and Heavy Spiked Shield?

So - My Question is thus - That pairing really shines when 2 weapon fighting? < yeah - i know 2 weapon is sub par to 2handed in general >
Voldenuit
10-27-04, 04:55 AM Dual Scimitars with the Dercish PrC (Complete Warrior) and Improved Critical is pretty sweet.

If you don't want to go Dervish, a dual-scimitar (Arms & Equipment Guide) is an exotic weapon.

The advantage of using two of the same weapon are that weapon-specific feats apply to both of your wielded weapons.

The Tiger Hook Sword (Dragon #319) should also be allowed to be dual-wielded as if wielding two light weapons - I have never seen a martial artist use only one of these at a time.

The chain is another interesting choice for dual-wielding - you can use it as a 2-H weapon with 10' reach, or dual-wield it with 5' reach.

Fans of Alexandre Dumas might want to go for the rapier + main gauche combo. Unforunately, I haven't seen the main gauche statted in any d20 book, but I'd treat it as a sai in terms of damage and disarming bonus. In addition, if the wielder does not attack with it in a given round, he gains a +1 parry bonus to AC (add any enhancement bonus from a magical weapon to this AC bonus). However, he still takes attack roll penalties as if he were fighting with two weapons.

My $0.02...
darczero
10-27-04, 05:13 AM My personal favorite is the just above medium size weapons, the Bastard Sword or Dwarven Waraxe (or exotic one handed/martial two handed weapons in 3.5). Then again, I don't play TWF characters for the number of attacks per round, I play them for fun.
scrollreader
10-27-04, 05:39 AM Double Scimitar. It's a martial weapon, for Valenar Elves. :D
Khazra Reborn
10-27-04, 05:54 AM Double hammer....more specifically 1 used by a:
dwarven cleric13(dwarven sub levels)/fighter2/hammer of moradin3/battlesmith1/exotic weapon master1

Only take -1 to attacks, 1.5 & 1.0 str mod respectively & wis to damage......hehe.
Ipsissimus
10-27-04, 07:59 AM Guisarme (for reach and tripping) and Armor Spikes (for 5' fighting)
or Greatsword and Armor Spikes.
charlesatan
10-27-04, 08:43 AM Here are my following observations on Two-Weapon Fighting when it comes to sheer damage potential:

1) First off, in general, using a 2-handed weapon would deal out more damage in the long run (because you only have four attacks with your primary hand and three attacks with your off-hand) and without the penalties to hit. The exceptions can be found below:

2) If your character isn't going to have a BAB higher than +15, then the "fourth attack" will not come anyway, so you're not missing out on damage output for your character. There's just penalty to hit to contend with.

3) You can have a higher base weapon damage with Two-Weapon Fighting compared with Two-haned weapons. I mean assuming we're medium size, the highest base damage I can have with my two-handed weapon is 2d6 (a greastword, for example). With TWF, assuming I take a one-handed weapon and a light weapon for my off-hand, I get 1d8 (longsword) and 1d6 (shortsword) for a -2 penalty to hit. If we're taking a -4 penalty, both weapons could be longswords for 2d8 total (2d10 or even 2d12 if we're taking exotic weapon proficiency in weapons like a bastard sword or a warmace [from complete warrior, 1d12 bludgeoning damage, -1 to AC]).

4) As pointed out, you can gain an edge in damage output by taking feats. I mean getting Weapon Specialization (shortsword) nets you a +2 damage if you're using two short swords compared to a Fighter using a greatsword and possessing the Weapon Specialization (greatsword) feat.

5) Similarly, weapon enhancements can net you additional damage as well. A +1 greatsword, for example, would net you the following damage: 2d6 + (Str modifier x 1.5) + 1 (the weapon enhancement). However, two +1 shortswords will net you the following damage: 1d6 + Str modifier + 1 (weapon enhancement) + 1d6 + 1/2 Str modifier + 1 (weapon enhancement). Stretched to the limit, two +5 short swords will net you 5 more damage compared to a two-handed greatsword wielder using a +5 greatsword. However, the problem with this is that your expenses for magic items is doubled (unless you're getting the enhancement bonuses from some other "free" source, such as a cleric casting it on both of your weapons, or it's an innate ability such as the Soul Knife's [from Expanded Psionics Handbook] ability). I'd just like to mention that a character who takes the Vow of Poverty (from Book of Exalted Deeds) and goes the Two-Weapon Fighting route can benefit from using a quarterstaff since both ends automatically get the enhancement bonus to damage.

6) If you're playing the statistics game, 7 attacks is better than 4 attacks, especially if your opponent has an extremely high AC (for example, if you need a natural 20 to hit). Getting 7 attacks for some people is better than just getting 4 opportunities (but the latter has bigger payoff in damage potential if the attack connects).

7) Defense-wise, you'd probably want to go the Two-Weapon Fighting route since you do get access to the Two-Weapon Defense tree and get a shield bonus to AC.

8) Another route that's possible is to get a two-handed weapon, applying your regular attack bonuses to it (and damage, such as the 1.5 x Str modifier), and taking the Two-Weapon Fighting feat to get another attack from some other source (such as a bite attack, or even armor spikes for less monstrous characters).
Khazra Reborn
10-27-04, 08:54 AM 5) Similarly, weapon enhancements can net you additional damage as well. A +1 greatsword, for example, would net you the following damage: 2d6 + (Str modifier x 1.5) + 1 (the weapon enhancement). However, two +1 shortswords will net you the following damage: 1d6 + Str modifier + 1 (weapon enhancement) + 1d6 + 1/2 Str modifier + 1 (weapon enhancement). Stretched to the limit, two +5 short swords will net you 5 more damage compared to a two-handed greatsword wielder using a +5 greatsword. However, the problem with this is that your expenses for magic items is doubled (unless you're getting the enhancement bonuses from some other "free" source, such as a cleric casting it on both of your weapons, or it's an innate ability such as the Soul Knife's [from Expanded Psionics Handbook] ability). I'd just like to mention that a character who takes the Vow of Poverty (from Book of Exalted Deeds) and goes the Two-Weapon Fighting route can benefit from using a quarterstaff since both ends automatically get the enhancement bonus to damage.
it should probaly be pointed out that the collision enhancement from expanded psiconics handbook gives +5 damage for only a +1 enhancement, brilliant for TWF.
charlesatan
10-27-04, 09:01 AM it should probaly be pointed out that the collision enhancement from expanded psiconics handbook gives +5 damage for only a +1 enhancement, brilliant for TWF.

Sorry but it's a +2 enhancement bonus. But personally, if I were to make a Soul Knife TWF build, I'd probably take collision as one of the weapon special abilities (and they apply to both weapons!).
Khazra Reborn
10-27-04, 09:58 AM Sorry but it's a +2 enhancement bonus
dont i feel stupid........... :D it still rocks though!

Ive come to the conclusion that the best weapons to TWF depends on your class, prcs & feats. Dervish's, kick butt with scimitars (my personal fave build being fighter4/barbarian6/dervish10...snow tiger beserker) but any TWF using scimitars without dervish is going to suck in comparison. Same goes for anyone using hammers but not hammer of moradin &/or battlesmith. You just wont compare!
ninjarabbit
10-27-04, 09:58 AM Dual bastard swords if you can get a Sun Blade as your off-hand weapon.
Qaetar
10-27-04, 11:13 AM Well, Double Weapons aren't worth it in most cases.

Cost:
One Feat

Payment:
A weapon classed as Large (for disarm)
+1 damage (d8 vs. d6 for a Double-Bladed Sword vs. two Shortswords)

Notable Bonuses for TWF:
EWM TWF bonus for two light weapons
Snow Tiger Berserker Lodge Pounce ability

Exceptions:
Disarm-Monkeys
Dervishes (two Scimitars)
Valenar Double Scimitar
TWF Gish (can hold a double weapon in one hand to cast [[S]] spells)
EWM Double Weapon Flurry (extra attack)

Did I miss anything important?

(Qaetar)
Zathyr
10-27-04, 01:28 PM The ability to use it as a two-handed weapon when preferred? You can put conditional and special damage mods on each head of the double weapon and use them to best effect, ie. only use the flaming side against a cold immune and vice versa. You'd need quick draw, two light weapons, and two two-handed weapons to get the same on-the fly versatility.

The thing I always wondered was: how does using TWF with one-handed weapons compare considering power attack adds 1:1 with each? Against most AC's that -4 penalty will hurt your damage output too much, I'd guess. A Sun Blade in the off-hand would reduce it to -2's but I never quite figured out how those things work with power attack.
Youka
10-27-04, 02:05 PM 2 crescent knifes.. this things double your attacks.. well 1d3 or so base dmg isnt that much.. but with wounding its kinda fun..
SoulLord
10-27-04, 04:13 PM In my personal opinion the best weapons for two-weapon fighting

not taking into account prestige classes is the Sword, two-bladed and the Axe, orc double If you are an orc the orc double axe counts only as a martial weapon

I prefer a higher dice of damage than a better threat range or critical multiplier
since i believe they pay more in the long run

SoulLord

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kabol 10-27-04, 04:36 AM	Well - You get the smallest negeatives if you weild 2 light weapons. So, Right off the Bat I think 2 Shortswords. Then Agian, the Kukri's Larger threat range might make up for its Lower Die. Then Agian - with a Light spiked shield you have a d4 weapon ( 1d8 with bashing enchantment ) and 1 AC with 1 feat. Looking at a One handed weapon / Light weapon Well - Scimmy is a Tried and True One handed weapon for Dual Weilders, But then agians, Rapier is finessable, so you can go dex with it and a light weapon off handed to take full advantage of high Dex. Double Weapons - I really think these are overlooked for 2WF 2Bladed Sword, Ork Double Axe, Dire Flail. And dont forget the Quarterstaff. The only double weapon that doesnt require a feat < Racial Familurarity Excluded > Does the fact that you only need 1 good double weapon - as opposed to 2 for individual weapons make up for your reliance on a rare/exotic weapon? And what about 2 weapon of the Same Size? Does the higher dmg die make up for the increased pelelties? Duel Rapiers, Scimys, Flail and Heavy Spiked Shield? So - My Question is thus - That pairing really shines when 2 weapon fighting? < yeah - i know 2 weapon is sub par to 2handed in general >
Voldenuit 10-27-04, 04:55 AM	Dual Scimitars with the Dercish PrC (Complete Warrior) and Improved Critical is pretty sweet. If you don't want to go Dervish, a dual-scimitar (Arms & Equipment Guide) is an exotic weapon. The advantage of using two of the same weapon are that weapon-specific feats apply to both of your wielded weapons. The Tiger Hook Sword (Dragon #319) should also be allowed to be dual-wielded as if wielding two light weapons - I have never seen a martial artist use only one of these at a time. The chain is another interesting choice for dual-wielding - you can use it as a 2-H weapon with 10' reach, or dual-wield it with 5' reach. Fans of Alexandre Dumas might want to go for the rapier + main gauche combo. Unforunately, I haven't seen the main gauche statted in any d20 book, but I'd treat it as a sai in terms of damage and disarming bonus. In addition, if the wielder does not attack with it in a given round, he gains a +1 parry bonus to AC (add any enhancement bonus from a magical weapon to this AC bonus). However, he still takes attack roll penalties as if he were fighting with two weapons. My $0.02...
darczero 10-27-04, 05:13 AM	My personal favorite is the just above medium size weapons, the Bastard Sword or Dwarven Waraxe (or exotic one handed/martial two handed weapons in 3.5). Then again, I don't play TWF characters for the number of attacks per round, I play them for fun.
scrollreader 10-27-04, 05:39 AM	Double Scimitar. It's a martial weapon, for Valenar Elves. :D
Khazra Reborn 10-27-04, 05:54 AM	Double hammer....more specifically 1 used by a: dwarven cleric13(dwarven sub levels)/fighter2/hammer of moradin3/battlesmith1/exotic weapon master1 Only take -1 to attacks, 1.5 & 1.0 str mod respectively & wis to damage......hehe.
Ipsissimus 10-27-04, 07:59 AM	Guisarme (for reach and tripping) and Armor Spikes (for 5' fighting) or Greatsword and Armor Spikes.
charlesatan 10-27-04, 08:43 AM	Here are my following observations on Two-Weapon Fighting when it comes to sheer damage potential: 1) First off, in general, using a 2-handed weapon would deal out more damage in the long run (because you only have four attacks with your primary hand and three attacks with your off-hand) and without the penalties to hit. The exceptions can be found below: 2) If your character isn't going to have a BAB higher than +15, then the "fourth attack" will not come anyway, so you're not missing out on damage output for your character. There's just penalty to hit to contend with. 3) You can have a higher base weapon damage with Two-Weapon Fighting compared with Two-haned weapons. I mean assuming we're medium size, the highest base damage I can have with my two-handed weapon is 2d6 (a greastword, for example). With TWF, assuming I take a one-handed weapon and a light weapon for my off-hand, I get 1d8 (longsword) and 1d6 (shortsword) for a -2 penalty to hit. If we're taking a -4 penalty, both weapons could be longswords for 2d8 total (2d10 or even 2d12 if we're taking exotic weapon proficiency in weapons like a bastard sword or a warmace [from complete warrior, 1d12 bludgeoning damage, -1 to AC]). 4) As pointed out, you can gain an edge in damage output by taking feats. I mean getting Weapon Specialization (shortsword) nets you a +2 damage if you're using two short swords compared to a Fighter using a greatsword and possessing the Weapon Specialization (greatsword) feat. 5) Similarly, weapon enhancements can net you additional damage as well. A +1 greatsword, for example, would net you the following damage: 2d6 + (Str modifier x 1.5) + 1 (the weapon enhancement). However, two +1 shortswords will net you the following damage: 1d6 + Str modifier + 1 (weapon enhancement) + 1d6 + 1/2 Str modifier + 1 (weapon enhancement). Stretched to the limit, two +5 short swords will net you 5 more damage compared to a two-handed greatsword wielder using a +5 greatsword. However, the problem with this is that your expenses for magic items is doubled (unless you're getting the enhancement bonuses from some other "free" source, such as a cleric casting it on both of your weapons, or it's an innate ability such as the Soul Knife's [from Expanded Psionics Handbook] ability). I'd just like to mention that a character who takes the Vow of Poverty (from Book of Exalted Deeds) and goes the Two-Weapon Fighting route can benefit from using a quarterstaff since both ends automatically get the enhancement bonus to damage. 6) If you're playing the statistics game, 7 attacks is better than 4 attacks, especially if your opponent has an extremely high AC (for example, if you need a natural 20 to hit). Getting 7 attacks for some people is better than just getting 4 opportunities (but the latter has bigger payoff in damage potential if the attack connects). 7) Defense-wise, you'd probably want to go the Two-Weapon Fighting route since you do get access to the Two-Weapon Defense tree and get a shield bonus to AC. 8) Another route that's possible is to get a two-handed weapon, applying your regular attack bonuses to it (and damage, such as the 1.5 x Str modifier), and taking the Two-Weapon Fighting feat to get another attack from some other source (such as a bite attack, or even armor spikes for less monstrous characters).
Khazra Reborn 10-27-04, 08:54 AM	5) Similarly, weapon enhancements can net you additional damage as well. A +1 greatsword, for example, would net you the following damage: 2d6 + (Str modifier x 1.5) + 1 (the weapon enhancement). However, two +1 shortswords will net you the following damage: 1d6 + Str modifier + 1 (weapon enhancement) + 1d6 + 1/2 Str modifier + 1 (weapon enhancement). Stretched to the limit, two +5 short swords will net you 5 more damage compared to a two-handed greatsword wielder using a +5 greatsword. However, the problem with this is that your expenses for magic items is doubled (unless you're getting the enhancement bonuses from some other "free" source, such as a cleric casting it on both of your weapons, or it's an innate ability such as the Soul Knife's [from Expanded Psionics Handbook] ability). I'd just like to mention that a character who takes the Vow of Poverty (from Book of Exalted Deeds) and goes the Two-Weapon Fighting route can benefit from using a quarterstaff since both ends automatically get the enhancement bonus to damage. it should probaly be pointed out that the collision enhancement from expanded psiconics handbook gives +5 damage for only a +1 enhancement, brilliant for TWF.
charlesatan 10-27-04, 09:01 AM	it should probaly be pointed out that the collision enhancement from expanded psiconics handbook gives +5 damage for only a +1 enhancement, brilliant for TWF. Sorry but it's a +2 enhancement bonus. But personally, if I were to make a Soul Knife TWF build, I'd probably take collision as one of the weapon special abilities (and they apply to both weapons!).
Khazra Reborn 10-27-04, 09:58 AM	Sorry but it's a +2 enhancement bonus dont i feel stupid........... :D it still rocks though! Ive come to the conclusion that the best weapons to TWF depends on your class, prcs & feats. Dervish's, kick butt with scimitars (my personal fave build being fighter4/barbarian6/dervish10...snow tiger beserker) but any TWF using scimitars without dervish is going to suck in comparison. Same goes for anyone using hammers but not hammer of moradin &/or battlesmith. You just wont compare!
ninjarabbit 10-27-04, 09:58 AM	Dual bastard swords if you can get a Sun Blade as your off-hand weapon.
Qaetar 10-27-04, 11:13 AM	Well, Double Weapons aren't worth it in most cases. Cost: One Feat Payment: A weapon classed as Large (for disarm) +1 damage (d8 vs. d6 for a Double-Bladed Sword vs. two Shortswords) Notable Bonuses for TWF: EWM TWF bonus for two light weapons Snow Tiger Berserker Lodge Pounce ability Exceptions: Disarm-Monkeys Dervishes (two Scimitars) Valenar Double Scimitar TWF Gish (can hold a double weapon in one hand to cast [[S]] spells) EWM Double Weapon Flurry (extra attack) Did I miss anything important? (Qaetar)
Zathyr 10-27-04, 01:28 PM	The ability to use it as a two-handed weapon when preferred? You can put conditional and special damage mods on each head of the double weapon and use them to best effect, ie. only use the flaming side against a cold immune and vice versa. You'd need quick draw, two light weapons, and two two-handed weapons to get the same on-the fly versatility. The thing I always wondered was: how does using TWF with one-handed weapons compare considering power attack adds 1:1 with each? Against most AC's that -4 penalty will hurt your damage output too much, I'd guess. A Sun Blade in the off-hand would reduce it to -2's but I never quite figured out how those things work with power attack.
Youka 10-27-04, 02:05 PM	2 crescent knifes.. this things double your attacks.. well 1d3 or so base dmg isnt that much.. but with wounding its kinda fun..
SoulLord 10-27-04, 04:13 PM	In my personal opinion the best weapons for two-weapon fighting not taking into account prestige classes is the Sword, two-bladed and the Axe, orc double If you are an orc the orc double axe counts only as a martial weapon I prefer a higher dice of damage than a better threat range or critical multiplier since i believe they pay more in the long run SoulLord