Best Wish Ever! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best Wish Ever! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BlaineTog
11-30-03, 10:22 PM This post has threefold purposes.

1)
From the 3.5 SRD Entry for Wish:
• Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value.
• Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item.
So this could be taken to mean "Magical item up to 25k," right? Let's assume that the DM in question allowed this to be so.

Allrighty then: Wish is notorious for that lovely little subtext basically telling the DM to "Go nuts!" The only things that it can't mess with are those listed (like that item creation above).

So let's say my fighter friend was a little bit insecure about himself. He's been rolling low recently and isn't happy about it. So he dedides ot to dome detective work, and finds out about the spell "True Strike" from his wizard friend. A couple days later, they come across a Djinn that's gonna grant them each a wish. He want to be able to use "TrueStrike" on every hit. How much would that cost? "At will" is not good since it would tkae a full round for him to "cast it, but what about Command Word Activated? Not only is it cheaper, but wouldn'tthat basically make it a free action? Like "cast it every time I say "Hit!" or something).

2) Would the wish allow an Innate Continuous Cantrip (specifically, Prestidigitation--see my sig:) ), or would that bu subject to pervertability?

3) My DM (as you may or may not have guessed) has decided to twist wishes the the fullest extent possible. What are the best possible Wishes that fit under the mentioned categorries in the PHB for any given class?
hell0
11-30-03, 10:39 PM 1) from the SRD:

A command word can be a real word, but when this is the case, the holder of the item runs the risk of activating the item accidentally by speaking the word in normal conversation. More often, the command word is some seemingly nonsensical word, or a word or phrase from an ancient language no longer in common use. Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

also...
"He want to be able to use "TrueStrike" on every hit" could quite easily be interpreted as he wants to be able to use true strike after he is hit :D . If the DM is twisting these wishes, be careful wording that one.

2) I dunno.

3) "I wish for a +1 inherent bonus to stat" is pretty damn hard to pervert. If the DM perverts this, then he hates you. A lot.

On the other hand, if he is making you say "I wish to be stronger" or "I wish to be wiser" or something like that, I recommend wishing for the genie to spontaneously combust or become mortal or something. Those wishes won't turn out well in this situation.
BlaineTog
11-30-03, 10:51 PM 1) *slaps self*
catharz
12-01-03, 03:31 PM The cost would probably be as a Quickened Truestrike (5th level spell), but that would still only affect one attack/rouund. To really have it effect all attacks, it wouuld just grant a +20 insight bonus to all attack rolls. There are rules for calculating how much that costs (hint: it costs a lot).
Skrimshaw
12-01-03, 03:50 PM 3) "I wish for a +1 inherent bonus to stat" is pretty damn hard to pervert. If the DM perverts this, then he hates you. A lot.

1) characters don't know what +1, stats or inherent bonuses are.

2) I generally start my wishes like this.
"With out changing me in any other way, I wish............

saved me a couple times.

3) it twists my knickers when a DM twists every wish to keep the players from getting kewl stuff. ya know..if ya don't want 'em to wish for kewl stuff..heres a thought...dont give em a dang wish!
Martin/Asmodeus
12-01-03, 07:28 PM What about:
"With out changing me in any other way, I wish to be one size larger."
Tyreus
12-01-03, 07:37 PM *shakes head*
catharz
12-01-03, 07:58 PM Well, Wish can certainly duplicate the effects of an Enlarge spell, so congrats, for the low cost of 5,000xp you can be size large for 10min*caster level.
Kenkai
12-01-03, 08:44 PM you really shouldn't roleplay wishes.

a wizard with 25 intelligence isn't going to mess up a wish like that. he owuld put alot of thought into how to word it and would have far superior linguistic skills then the average human.

i say wish for that +1 inherent stat, its your DM's job to have it make sense. if you wish within the limits of the spell its not fair for a DM to be a little b**** about it. :mad:
Darkwin6
12-01-03, 10:13 PM a wizard with 25 intelligence isn't going to mess up a wish like that. he owuld put alot of thought into how to word it and would have far superior linguistic skills then the average human.

Bah. A god (or power. Where do the wishes come from?) with alot more than 25 intelligence would have no problem corrupting the wish even if it was formulated by a wizard with 25 intelligence.
Kenkai
12-01-03, 10:20 PM thats not the point.

the wish is a spell, the wizard makes whatever happens. the wizard molds the universe to serve the purposes of the wish, not some other being. i don't remember reading anything in the spell description saying that it comes from another being.

the guidelines are there so PC's can use the spell for those purposes without worrying about it messing up. there is the option of using a more powerful wish but the universe might be a little pissy about messing with things that strong.

you know psions get a spell very similar to wish? they do actually mold the universe to their will when casting it, but the guidelines are basically the same.

anyway yeah, as long as the wish is within the guidelines in the PHB a DM should not twist it, that option is there to stop stupid players from wishing omnipotence or something.

edit: what i meant about the 25 intelligence, is that the wizard would be able to figure out how to say "i want a +1 inherent bonus," without getting zapped. i didn't mean he would be able to use any powers outside the set limits.

at 25 int, the PC is much much much much much (need i go on?) smarter then the player and should be able to word it better then the player ever could.
BlaineTog
12-01-03, 10:40 PM Kenkai,
I'm in complete agreement with you, although since I play bards and sorcerers, they usually only have an INT of 14ish.

That said, wish twisting in general reall cheeses me off (unless it's from an Evil Djinn, in which case, twist away!).

Here is my Uniform Wish Theory. There are three basic cases in which the character may be in the poition ot Wish. Depending on the Case, the wish may or may not be twisted. They are:

1) The character casts the spell his/herself. This includes Scrolls, Rings of-, etc. If the character asks for anything mentioned in the PHB, then it works. If they ask for anything in the same power level or slightly higher than the examples mentioned, then it works. If they ask for something ludicrous that is technically suseptible to twisting, then the wish fizzles. i mean come on, hive the caster a LITTLE credit. They have at least a *measure* of control over their own spell! They certainly arn't gonna let them hurt them.

2) The Spell is from a Benighn source, such as a Wizard friendly to the party, a good Jninn, or sometimes the aforementioned Rings. The results are identicle to "1" since the source is trying to help the characters.

3) The WIsh is from a Wizard that wants the party to fail, possible the aformentioned ring (if it's evil or whatnot), an evil Djinn, etc. basically something that want to harm the party. Unless the wishcaster is under the character's complete and total control (unlikely), then the wish is twisted as maliciously as possible. If the requested wish is listed, then the character's words are twisted (ie loopholes are found) unless a) the charter has a high IQ and/or b) the character has spent at least a few minutes contempleting the wording of the request.

Sadly, My DM disagrees with me and has decided to twist anything not listed (i think. It might depend on how many cookies we give him ;) ).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BlaineTog 11-30-03, 10:22 PM	This post has threefold purposes. 1) From the 3.5 SRD Entry for Wish: • Create a nonmagical item of up to 25,000 gp in value. • Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item. So this could be taken to mean "Magical item up to 25k," right? Let's assume that the DM in question allowed this to be so. Allrighty then: Wish is notorious for that lovely little subtext basically telling the DM to "Go nuts!" The only things that it can't mess with are those listed (like that item creation above). So let's say my fighter friend was a little bit insecure about himself. He's been rolling low recently and isn't happy about it. So he dedides ot to dome detective work, and finds out about the spell "True Strike" from his wizard friend. A couple days later, they come across a Djinn that's gonna grant them each a wish. He want to be able to use "TrueStrike" on every hit. How much would that cost? "At will" is not good since it would tkae a full round for him to "cast it, but what about Command Word Activated? Not only is it cheaper, but wouldn'tthat basically make it a free action? Like "cast it every time I say "Hit!" or something). 2) Would the wish allow an Innate Continuous Cantrip (specifically, Prestidigitation--see my sig:) ), or would that bu subject to pervertability? 3) My DM (as you may or may not have guessed) has decided to twist wishes the the fullest extent possible. What are the best possible Wishes that fit under the mentioned categorries in the PHB for any given class?
hell0 11-30-03, 10:39 PM	1) from the SRD: A command word can be a real word, but when this is the case, the holder of the item runs the risk of activating the item accidentally by speaking the word in normal conversation. More often, the command word is some seemingly nonsensical word, or a word or phrase from an ancient language no longer in common use. Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. also... "He want to be able to use "TrueStrike" on every hit" could quite easily be interpreted as he wants to be able to use true strike after he is hit :D . If the DM is twisting these wishes, be careful wording that one. 2) I dunno. 3) "I wish for a +1 inherent bonus to stat" is pretty damn hard to pervert. If the DM perverts this, then he hates you. A lot. On the other hand, if he is making you say "I wish to be stronger" or "I wish to be wiser" or something like that, I recommend wishing for the genie to spontaneously combust or become mortal or something. Those wishes won't turn out well in this situation.
BlaineTog 11-30-03, 10:51 PM	1) slaps self
catharz 12-01-03, 03:31 PM	The cost would probably be as a Quickened Truestrike (5th level spell), but that would still only affect one attack/rouund. To really have it effect all attacks, it wouuld just grant a +20 insight bonus to all attack rolls. There are rules for calculating how much that costs (hint: it costs a lot).
Skrimshaw 12-01-03, 03:50 PM	3) "I wish for a +1 inherent bonus to stat" is pretty damn hard to pervert. If the DM perverts this, then he hates you. A lot. 1) characters don't know what +1, stats or inherent bonuses are. 2) I generally start my wishes like this. "With out changing me in any other way, I wish............ saved me a couple times. 3) it twists my knickers when a DM twists every wish to keep the players from getting kewl stuff. ya know..if ya don't want 'em to wish for kewl stuff..heres a thought...dont give em a dang wish!
Martin/Asmodeus 12-01-03, 07:28 PM	What about: "With out changing me in any other way, I wish to be one size larger."
Tyreus 12-01-03, 07:37 PM	shakes head
catharz 12-01-03, 07:58 PM	Well, Wish can certainly duplicate the effects of an Enlarge spell, so congrats, for the low cost of 5,000xp you can be size large for 10min*caster level.
Kenkai 12-01-03, 08:44 PM	you really shouldn't roleplay wishes. a wizard with 25 intelligence isn't going to mess up a wish like that. he owuld put alot of thought into how to word it and would have far superior linguistic skills then the average human. i say wish for that +1 inherent stat, its your DM's job to have it make sense. if you wish within the limits of the spell its not fair for a DM to be a little b**** about it. :mad:
Darkwin6 12-01-03, 10:13 PM	a wizard with 25 intelligence isn't going to mess up a wish like that. he owuld put alot of thought into how to word it and would have far superior linguistic skills then the average human. Bah. A god (or power. Where do the wishes come from?) with alot more than 25 intelligence would have no problem corrupting the wish even if it was formulated by a wizard with 25 intelligence.
Kenkai 12-01-03, 10:20 PM	thats not the point. the wish is a spell, the wizard makes whatever happens. the wizard molds the universe to serve the purposes of the wish, not some other being. i don't remember reading anything in the spell description saying that it comes from another being. the guidelines are there so PC's can use the spell for those purposes without worrying about it messing up. there is the option of using a more powerful wish but the universe might be a little pissy about messing with things that strong. you know psions get a spell very similar to wish? they do actually mold the universe to their will when casting it, but the guidelines are basically the same. anyway yeah, as long as the wish is within the guidelines in the PHB a DM should not twist it, that option is there to stop stupid players from wishing omnipotence or something. edit: what i meant about the 25 intelligence, is that the wizard would be able to figure out how to say "i want a +1 inherent bonus," without getting zapped. i didn't mean he would be able to use any powers outside the set limits. at 25 int, the PC is much much much much much (need i go on?) smarter then the player and should be able to word it better then the player ever could.
BlaineTog 12-01-03, 10:40 PM	Kenkai, I'm in complete agreement with you, although since I play bards and sorcerers, they usually only have an INT of 14ish. That said, wish twisting in general reall cheeses me off (unless it's from an Evil Djinn, in which case, twist away!). Here is my Uniform Wish Theory. There are three basic cases in which the character may be in the poition ot Wish. Depending on the Case, the wish may or may not be twisted. They are: 1) The character casts the spell his/herself. This includes Scrolls, Rings of-, etc. If the character asks for anything mentioned in the PHB, then it works. If they ask for anything in the same power level or slightly higher than the examples mentioned, then it works. If they ask for something ludicrous that is technically suseptible to twisting, then the wish fizzles. i mean come on, hive the caster a LITTLE credit. They have at least a measure of control over their own spell! They certainly arn't gonna let them hurt them. 2) The Spell is from a Benighn source, such as a Wizard friendly to the party, a good Jninn, or sometimes the aforementioned Rings. The results are identicle to "1" since the source is trying to help the characters. 3) The WIsh is from a Wizard that wants the party to fail, possible the aformentioned ring (if it's evil or whatnot), an evil Djinn, etc. basically something that want to harm the party. Unless the wishcaster is under the character's complete and total control (unlikely), then the wish is twisted as maliciously as possible. If the requested wish is listed, then the character's words are twisted (ie loopholes are found) unless a) the charter has a high IQ and/or b) the character has spent at least a few minutes contempleting the wording of the request. Sadly, My DM disagrees with me and has decided to twist anything not listed (i think. It might depend on how many cookies we give him ;) ).