Best....Oh wait we don't use that MetaMagic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Best....Oh wait we don't use that MetaMagic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
amanodel
09-07-04, 10:32 PM Alright. So there are thousands of metamagic feats out there. Alright not thousands but probably one hundred. What do you think is the most powerful metamagic feat or feats (a sequence of two feats like arcane preparation and quicken spell) out there? This will be a great source for me and other players looking at metamagic but unsure of what to take. SO since the sorcerer and wizard are the prime metamagic users where it gets tricky I would like two different options.

Sorcerer - most effective blaster metamagic and most effective metamagic for diplomacy
Wizard - most effective blaster, most effective utility metamagic

My suggestions are
Sorcerer Blaster - Maximize and Sudden Maximize (from Miniatures Handbook). The only prerequisites for Sudden Maximize is Maximize and it can allow you to do 72 points of damage at 11th level for the second level spell! That's pretty good.
Sorcerer Diplomatic - Still Spell (from Player's Handbook). This allows you to cast charm person without everybody in the room seeing it. Silent spell is nice, too, but i feel still spell is best.
Wizard Blaster - Quicken Spell (from Player's Handbook). 1 extra spell per round. Need I say more?
Wizard Utility - Extend Spell (from Player's Handboook). Allows for very long spells. Mage Armor for 10 hours at fifth level - an entire day depending.

So Please Post other metamagic feats that you feel are the best for the above categories from any source as long as it is published!
Razorblade Smile
09-07-04, 10:53 PM The only prerequisites for Sudden Maximize is Maximize
No, the only prerequisite for Sudden Maximize is any other metamagic feat. It doesn't have to be Sudden Maximize.

Anyway, some of the ones I like (don't know if they're "optimized" or not) are...

Sorcerer Combat: Energy Affinity. Now that one combat spell you have can be used to fill in for a myriad of different situations on a whim. It's usually (but not always) best to take it for the polar opposite element you plan on using since most opponents that are immune to the former are vulnerable to the latter.

Sorcerer Diplomatic: Insidious Spell. While it's a Shadow Weave metamagic feat, and thus generally limited to the Forgotten Realms, it's great for keeping the fact that you have some peons under your spell a secret.

Wizard Combat: Innate Spell. Not only does it effectively give you more spell slots per day for your most favorite combat (or whatever) spells, but they're treated as spell-like effects instead of spells. This has its advantages and disadvantages, but overall it's pretty cool. Requires Still Spell and Silent Spell, however, so it's somewhat difficult to acquire and might not be worth it in the long run unless you plan on taking Innate Spell multiple times.

Wizard Utilitarian: Extend and Persistant Spell. For obvious reasons.

In addition I also like Spell Thematics for both Sorcerers and Wizards of all ilks. While not a metamagic feat, per se, it makes it harder to successfully identify and thus counter your spells.
catharz
09-07-04, 11:02 PM There is a fairly small list of extremely useful metamagic feats. Depending on the build, the order of importance might be different, but the feats themselves remain the same (with the exception of persistant).

1) Chain (Tome and blood) - This spell is great for just about any spell it can be applied to, from buffs to attacks.

2) Quicken (PHB) - Speaks for its self.

3) Persistant (/ Extend) (PGtF) - Very important for buff-based characters, but in 3.5 a cheap/cheesy way of applting it is almost a neccesity.

4) Empower (PHB) - Was king in 3.0. Without metamagic stacking (and non-randomized buffs), it is still good for some buff and many attack spells.

5) Twin (Tomb and blood) - Double whammy. Cheaper then quicken, plus you can fire a twinned spell and a quickened one in the same round.

6) Energy substitution [Sonic] (Tomb and blood) - Ignore almost all energy resistance. This is mainly due to a design oversight, but is one of the many things not fixed in 3.5. Then again, direct damage requires special tactics to really do anything.
Zubon
09-08-04, 12:36 AM "Energy substitution [Sonic] (Tomb and blood) - Ignore almost all energy resistance. This is mainly due to a design oversight, but is one of the many things not fixed in 3.5."
As a note, Monster Manual III is supposed to address this, adding more monsters with Sonic Resistance, Vulnerability, and powers.
ShadowCrown
09-08-04, 01:04 AM Actually, I believe the design oversight he's referring to is the fact that there's a metamagic feat in a 3.5 book, the name of which currently escapes me, that does exactly what energy substitution does, only it doesn't allow sonic as an option. The loophole is that this feat doesn't /actually/ replace, or prevent you from taking energy substitution, even though the obvious design intent is for it to replace, because they have different names, and thus are entirely different feats serving the exact same purpose, only one does it better than the other.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
amanodel 09-07-04, 10:32 PM	Alright. So there are thousands of metamagic feats out there. Alright not thousands but probably one hundred. What do you think is the most powerful metamagic feat or feats (a sequence of two feats like arcane preparation and quicken spell) out there? This will be a great source for me and other players looking at metamagic but unsure of what to take. SO since the sorcerer and wizard are the prime metamagic users where it gets tricky I would like two different options. Sorcerer - most effective blaster metamagic and most effective metamagic for diplomacy Wizard - most effective blaster, most effective utility metamagic My suggestions are Sorcerer Blaster - Maximize and Sudden Maximize (from Miniatures Handbook). The only prerequisites for Sudden Maximize is Maximize and it can allow you to do 72 points of damage at 11th level for the second level spell! That's pretty good. Sorcerer Diplomatic - Still Spell (from Player's Handbook). This allows you to cast charm person without everybody in the room seeing it. Silent spell is nice, too, but i feel still spell is best. Wizard Blaster - Quicken Spell (from Player's Handbook). 1 extra spell per round. Need I say more? Wizard Utility - Extend Spell (from Player's Handboook). Allows for very long spells. Mage Armor for 10 hours at fifth level - an entire day depending. So Please Post other metamagic feats that you feel are the best for the above categories from any source as long as it is published!
Razorblade Smile 09-07-04, 10:53 PM	The only prerequisites for Sudden Maximize is Maximize No, the only prerequisite for Sudden Maximize is any other metamagic feat. It doesn't have to be Sudden Maximize. Anyway, some of the ones I like (don't know if they're "optimized" or not) are... Sorcerer Combat: Energy Affinity. Now that one combat spell you have can be used to fill in for a myriad of different situations on a whim. It's usually (but not always) best to take it for the polar opposite element you plan on using since most opponents that are immune to the former are vulnerable to the latter. Sorcerer Diplomatic: Insidious Spell. While it's a Shadow Weave metamagic feat, and thus generally limited to the Forgotten Realms, it's great for keeping the fact that you have some peons under your spell a secret. Wizard Combat: Innate Spell. Not only does it effectively give you more spell slots per day for your most favorite combat (or whatever) spells, but they're treated as spell-like effects instead of spells. This has its advantages and disadvantages, but overall it's pretty cool. Requires Still Spell and Silent Spell, however, so it's somewhat difficult to acquire and might not be worth it in the long run unless you plan on taking Innate Spell multiple times. Wizard Utilitarian: Extend and Persistant Spell. For obvious reasons. In addition I also like Spell Thematics for both Sorcerers and Wizards of all ilks. While not a metamagic feat, per se, it makes it harder to successfully identify and thus counter your spells.
catharz 09-07-04, 11:02 PM	There is a fairly small list of extremely useful metamagic feats. Depending on the build, the order of importance might be different, but the feats themselves remain the same (with the exception of persistant). 1) Chain (Tome and blood) - This spell is great for just about any spell it can be applied to, from buffs to attacks. 2) Quicken (PHB) - Speaks for its self. 3) Persistant (/ Extend) (PGtF) - Very important for buff-based characters, but in 3.5 a cheap/cheesy way of applting it is almost a neccesity. 4) Empower (PHB) - Was king in 3.0. Without metamagic stacking (and non-randomized buffs), it is still good for some buff and many attack spells. 5) Twin (Tomb and blood) - Double whammy. Cheaper then quicken, plus you can fire a twinned spell and a quickened one in the same round. 6) Energy substitution [Sonic] (Tomb and blood) - Ignore almost all energy resistance. This is mainly due to a design oversight, but is one of the many things not fixed in 3.5. Then again, direct damage requires special tactics to really do anything.
Zubon 09-08-04, 12:36 AM	"Energy substitution [Sonic] (Tomb and blood) - Ignore almost all energy resistance. This is mainly due to a design oversight, but is one of the many things not fixed in 3.5." As a note, Monster Manual III is supposed to address this, adding more monsters with Sonic Resistance, Vulnerability, and powers.
ShadowCrown 09-08-04, 01:04 AM	Actually, I believe the design oversight he's referring to is the fact that there's a metamagic feat in a 3.5 book, the name of which currently escapes me, that does exactly what energy substitution does, only it doesn't allow sonic as an option. The loophole is that this feat doesn't /actually/ replace, or prevent you from taking energy substitution, even though the obvious design intent is for it to replace, because they have different names, and thus are entirely different feats serving the exact same purpose, only one does it better than the other.